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Q99 said:
I kinda feel like the terminology should be switched... when I hear 'transparent,' I picture things passing through each other.
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Blame WOTC, they cam up with the original "Magic-Psionics Transparency" nomeclature.

Which I also think is dumb, because Magic != Spellcasting, the way I see it.

Spellcasting, Psionics, Incarnum, Akasha, true Names, Pact binding, etc are all "Magic."
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
Blame WOTC, they cam up with the original "Magic-Psionics Transparency" nomeclature.

Which I also think is dumb, because Magic != Spellcasting, the way I see it.

Spellcasting, Psionics, Incarnum, Akasha, true Names, Pact binding, etc are all "Magic."
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Yes.

Heh, it just occurred to me, make a setting where all of 'em can block each other... except for TrueNamers.

Would anyone notice? ^^
 
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Chloe Sullivan said:
?
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Typo, 'each'.

Also, Truenamers can already trivially bypass SR.
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Sure, but, "Ah ha, I can walk through your anti-magic fields and dispel magics and cast magic where you didn't think was possible!" can potentially be quite scary to someone who uses such defenses.

Imagine one wizard who could ignore teleport blocks and anti-scrying measures in a world where nations use them commonly- scariest wizard on the planet, right? The Imperial family 'safe' in their anti-magic defenses could be assassinated easily.

Only instead of a wizard or sorcerer, it's a Truenamer. Bit less scary ^^
 
Q99 said:
Typo, 'each'.



Sure, but, "Ah ha, I can walk through your anti-magic fields and dispel magics and cast magic where you didn't think was possible!" can potentially be quite scary to someone who uses such defenses.

Imagine one wizard who could ignore teleport blocks and anti-scrying measures in a world where nations use them commonly- scariest wizard on the planet, right? The Imperial family 'safe' in their anti-magic defenses could be assassinated easily.

Only instead of a wizard or sorcerer, it's a Truenamer. Bit less scary ^^
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Hmm. That kind of character has potential.
 
heh, i made a dwarven character who used the silver key PrC to do something like that. capstone for the class is "you can walk into other people's extradimensional spaces with an open lock check"

Wizards are no longer perfectly secure in their extradimensional spaces.
 
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You know, I think I may be done with my Sorcerer phase (not that I wouldn't mind still using the character). Because as I tossed the char ideas around in my head, I came up with a Catfolk Vigilante using Eldritch Heritage feats.

Though still possibly a spellcaster, if I went Magical Child or similar...
 
Eldritch Heritage does go well with the Vigilante, it is not a feat-intensive class that still gets bonus feats and benefits from good charisma.
What would you use the Eldritch Heritage for though?
There are nice goodies in there for non-spellcasters, but I'm curious which ones you are after.
 
Serafina said:
Eldritch Heritage does go well with the Vigilante, it is not a feat-intensive class that still gets bonus feats and benefits from good charisma.
What would you use the Eldritch Heritage for though?
There are nice goodies in there for non-spellcasters, but I'm curious which ones you are after.
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There's a couple I like. Basically the character idea I have is "kid born of a magic family with no talent. Parents agree to an experiment to give power, kid gets injected with stuff, end up with a bloodline." In short, fluffwise I'd be using the story of someone with sorcery magic, just with someone who can fight more.

Nanite has the cool nano-poison thing, which a Climb-speed vigilante with a reach weapon could put on targets in a fairly effective manner. Verdant has the whip thing. Protean's rather neat in it's weirdness, and free tanglefoots on demand is cool at low level.
 
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Chloe Sullivan said:
heh, i made a dwarven character who used the silver key PrC to do something like that. capstone for the class is "you can walk into other people's extradimensional spaces with an open lock check"

Wizards are no longer perfectly secure in their extradimensional spaces.
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Are you still planning to do that 3.5 game?
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
I'm on a school-ish schedule, so if I have free time this summer i'll try.

You should probably brush up on non-spellcasting magic systems if you wanna play though. I loveses my incarnum and psionics and stuff.
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I always have lots of character ideas, so here's a few possibilities.
A mute Monk.
A 10-year-old Warlock.
An insane Binder.
A Dread Necromancer for hire.
 
Mithrandir said:
I always have lots of character ideas, so here's a few possibilities.
A mute Monk.
A 10-year-old Warlock.
An insane Binder.
A Dread Necromancer for hire.
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If you ideas are all class based, you are not going to like my D&D philosophy at all... XD

(Classes are metagame. Characters are not their class. Characters have a set of abilities that make the useful as adventurers, and the rest is bookkeeping. No one identifies as a "Dread Necromancer" for their job title.)
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
If you ideas are all class based, you are not going to like my D&D philosophy at all... XD

(Classes are metagame. Characters are not their class. Characters have a set of abilities that make the useful as adventurers, and the rest is bookkeeping. No one identifies as a "Dread Necromancer" for their job title.)
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Of course. I was mostly just checking that those Classes were acceptably 'non-spellcasting'.
 
DanielJH2112 said:
@Scia, @barenhart, how are your characters coming along? I'm nearly done with mine. Is anyone else interested in @Drachyench's 2e game?
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On that note, since "Out for [CHARNAME]'s bounty" seems the most probable scenario to work with the group with its current set-up / composition, my current first session plan is:
+ [CHARACTERS] are a little off the Coast Way's path, smack between it and Candlekeep.
+ They're all out on their own, taking in the lay of the land and keeping an eye out for [CHARNAME], who is expected to be moving soon.
+ The weather's poor, it's already dark. Visibility is at an extreme low.
+ [CHARACTERS] start coming across each other. Just how and why up to roleplaying.
+ Before everyone can start scattering / going at each other's throats / motivate themselves to remove the competition too much, Gorion's little light show kicks off to the [direction].

From there? Depends on everyone's reaction, a little bit of chance, etcetera. Group could stumble across an injured [CHARNAME] fleeing from the fight, possibly even getting the drop on them as their attention's on their foster-father… or they could find shit-all in the heavy downpour (besides maybe some hungry wolves or circling bandits, anyways). I have plans either way, whether they get [CHARNAME]'s head individually or as a group or if they wind up empty-handed.
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
If you ideas are all class based, you are not going to like my D&D philosophy at all... XD

(Classes are metagame. Characters are not their class. Characters have a set of abilities that make the useful as adventurers, and the rest is bookkeeping. No one identifies as a "Dread Necromancer" for their job title.)
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Depends. If you live in the undead ruled kingdom in Golarian, you almost certainly wish to be known as Dread Necromancer. :p

Monk is also one people probably call themself in universe, along with [School Name} + Wizard, Cleric, and several other classes :p
 
Mithrandir said:
Of course. I was mostly just checking that those Classes were acceptably 'non-spellcasting'.
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Oh, no, you can still use, say, the wizard class if you like. You just cant cast any spells outside of specific safe zones without YOUR HEAD ASPLODE. You get the Supernatural Exchange feat for free and can bind a spirit in place of your normal spell slots.

Note: I may or may not open up any safe zones in actual play.



Again, I generally hate pegging stuff to classes. but in terms of mechanical utility...

Warlock - on the weak side, but I'll probably do some sort of tiered gestalt as per @Tekomandor 's suggestion, so it's viable.

Monk - terrible and useless. A dip into if if you want to i dunno, Tashalatora or something is fine, otherwise, avoid.

Dread Necromancer - I love them, but they're harder to play if you can't run around casting spirit wall all the time. They're decent for a fear build, I guess.

Binder - who doesn't love these? Jury is still out on bloodline shenanigans, but otherwise I'm pretty happy with them.


The Imperator said:
Depends. If you live in the undead ruled kingdom in Golarian, you almost certainly wish to be known as Dread Necromancer. :p

Monk is also one people probably call themself in universe, along with [School Name} + Wizard, Cleric, and several other classes :p
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You have "mage" "wizard" "sorcerer" "witch" "warlock" and "adept" as terms describing someone who does woo woo magic. None of them are actually pegged to classes in Chullivan!world

To quote the esteemible Viletta Vadim:
Choose the abilities that are appropriate to the character. Choose the mechanics that fit the character.

To hold the party strictly to those arbitrary fluff shackles, to deny characters from the mechanics that accurately represent them? It cheapens the game and strays far into the realm of eleven classes, eleven characters. It makes the system the enemy of deep characters and of roleplay, and is generally a Bad Thing.

You can represent a splendid wizard with the Psion class, the Warmage class, the Beguiler class, the Dread Necromancer class, the Bard class, the Wu Jen class, the Warlock class, the Binder class, and some of the incarnum classes. Those classes are every bit as capable of representing a wizard character as the Wizard class. The Wizard class just happens to bear the metagame tag of 'wizard.' To use the most appropriate class to represent a character, as opposed to one that does not fit the character in the least and happens to bear a similar metagame tag, does not mean you're no longer playing D&D. It means you actually have a character sheet that suits what the character is supposed to do. That's a Good Thing, and it's what the system is supposed to contribute to the game. There is nothing in the Bard class description that says, "not a priest," and the Cleric class explicitly allows Clerics who aren't even clergy.

If you line up a dwarf Fighter, a dwarf Warblade, a dwarf Warrior, and a dwarf Knight in front of King Bob, the king doesn't see a Fighter, a Warblade, a Warrior, and a Knight. He sees four dwarven warriors. The mechanics, the classes, they're completely invisible. Likewise, if you line up a gnome Wizard, a gnome Psion, a gnome Beguiler, and a gnome Truenamer in front of King Bob, he sees four gnome mages. The distinction is only in the rules (invisible to the world) and in the characters themselves.
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Chloe Sullivan said:
Oh, no, you can still use, say, the wizard class if you like. You just cant cast any spells outside of specific safe zones without YOUR HEAD ASPLODE. You get the Supernatural Exchange feat for free and can bind a spirit in place of your normal spell slots.

Note: I may or may not open up any safe zones in actual play.



Again, I generally hate pegging stuff to classes. but in terms of mechanical utility...

Warlock - on the weak side, but I'll probably do some sort of tiered gestalt as per @Tekomandor 's suggestion, so it's viable.

Monk - terrible and useless. A dip into if if you want to i dunno, Tashalatora or something is fine, otherwise, avoid.

Dread Necromancer - I love them, but they're harder to play if you can't run around casting spirit wall all the time. They're decent for a fear build, I guess.

Binder - who doesn't love these? Jury is still out on bloodline shenanigans, but otherwise I'm pretty happy with them.




You have "mage" "wizard" "sorcerer" "witch" "warlock" and "adept" as terms describing someone who does woo woo magic. None of them are actually pegged to classes in Chullivan!world

To quote the esteemible Viletta Vadim:
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Well that clears up a lot of things. Just for clarification though - we're both talking about this Binder, correct? There's another Class by the same name that specializes in Items.
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
You have "mage" "wizard" "sorcerer" "witch" "warlock" and "adept" as terms describing someone who does woo woo magic. None of them are actually pegged to classes in Chullivan!world

To quote the esteemible Viletta Vadim:
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That is true, although fighter is much more generic than wizard.

Your world also assumes no one ever invented names for people that learned and practiced magic in similar manners. Do physicists and chemists use their name interchangeably, despite studying different things? Likewise, shouldn't the same apply in DnD? Not necessarily the words used in classes, but someone at some point is going to come up with categories for people that get magic from their blood (Sorcerers) vs. people who have to spend years studying books (Wizards) vs. people who just pray and something gives them spells.

I do agree that class names are not always correct. No one is going to call their profession "Fighter," but someone from a Nordic style area would probably call themselves a Skald if they are that class (and also probably if not that class, although being a good Skald requires some Bard or Skald levels :p ).

A Vigilante, conversely, will probably not refer to themselves that way, since their costumed identity often wants to add legitimacy to their actions, while their social identity is probably willing to distance themselves from the masked crime fighter and thus would call themselves a Vigilante.

Class name being an in universe thing is perfectly logical in some situations, while silly in others, like Anti-Paladin and Rogues are never going to call themselves that. But at the same time, someone in universe had to come up with a term to differentiate people who got magic from different things.

Haven't gotten to argue DnD metaphysics in a while, thanks for your time :p
 
Scia said:
I did not yet contine building as he did not make more comments about continuing working on it.
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Right now, for CharGen, we have two options:
1) We can have everyone (who winds up playing) roll 4D6b3 six times, and assign the points as desired. This system allows for much higher stats overall (barring some exceptional rolling)… but also runs the risk (assuming people consider it a risk) of no stat suffering any particularly noteworthy bonuses / penalties.
2) We can have everyone (who winds up playing) roll 9D6 (their individual numbers kept aside), and assign whole individual dice (hence why the numbers are kept aside) to Base-8 Attributes. This system has a lower stat floor (8) and leads to more 9-14 stats… but at absolute best will have only 1-3 skills that are above 14 (which is where benefits begin to truly appear in AD&D). More probably only 0-2 stats will be above 14, with 0-1 being more likely.

Daniel's gone with / leant towards 4D6b3, or in the least I imagine they'd prefer we stick with it, but if the majority leans one way over the other (I know a lot of people prefer point-buy or things close-to) that's the way we'll stick. Rolling itself can either be done in-here (or better yet, a side-thread, but I'd rather not make a side thread until I know there's enough interest for a number of reasons), a Private Conversation, using an Off-Site roller, or so-on once a final system's been settled on.

Chloe Sullivan said:
Monk - terrible and useless. A dip into if if you want to i dunno, Tashalatora or something is fine, otherwise, avoid.
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Protip: Never invite me to one of your D&D Campaigns. I'm the sort of player who'd roll a Cleric of Ilmater with more Con and Str than Wis who only fights bare-handed and invests points heavily in stuff like Diplomacy and Heal. :D
 
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