Dungeons and Dragons Megathread
- Thread starter Havocfett
- Start date
KingseekerFreyr
Currently kingseeking...
- Location
- In a void!
Oh I'm not saying Gygax was, I'm saying that the writer who wrote that was. I think that DnD is the one IP thanks to it's very nature of it's medium that has legitimately moved on from the original creator.
That being said, I think the concept of the Drow is alright. Though I would do far more with them and the fact that they live in the Shadowfell.
That being said, I think the concept of the Drow is alright. Though I would do far more with them and the fact that they live in the Shadowfell.
Last edited:
I don't know if Gary Gygax was conscious of it, but Drow as he wrote them were very close to the Fae of old English legends. (Elves. Not nice. At all.)
For a very conscious treatment of Fae, I suggest "Nightmare Stacks" by Charles Stross. It is part of his "Laundry" series, which is basically modern take on H.P. Lovecraft, and the elves of "Nightmare Stacks" fit right in. They are also a lot like Drow, although not matriarchal. (Not especially patriarchal either. Both genders are equally Machiavellian and equally sadistic.)
For a very conscious treatment of Fae, I suggest "Nightmare Stacks" by Charles Stross. It is part of his "Laundry" series, which is basically modern take on H.P. Lovecraft, and the elves of "Nightmare Stacks" fit right in. They are also a lot like Drow, although not matriarchal. (Not especially patriarchal either. Both genders are equally Machiavellian and equally sadistic.)
Last edited:
LordInsane
Loyalist to the Alvarian Merchant's Guild
- Location
- Bohuslän, Occupied Norway
Wait, what's this about them living in the Shadowfell? As far as I'm aware they generally live in the Underdark/closest underground equivalent, or in Eberron's case on another continent than the main-focus one.
You're probably thinking of the Shadar-Kai. Those are the elves who live in the Shadowfell.
Shadowhisker
Asylum Escapee
- Location
- The Mines of Mercury
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think back in Fourth Edition the Underdark blended into the Shadowfell, which itself blended into the Lower Planes. So back then you could have said the drow lived in the Shadowfell? Even in previous and future editions there's generally been hints that something fucky is going on with the Underdark.
- Location
- Northern Virginia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Nah. None of that is accurate. There wasn't even a "lower planes" in 4e.
shepsquared
Erratic Aussie
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
Makes me wonder what the quintessential qualities of the drow even are? In a property that keeps adding more and more flavours of elf how do they stand out - if you were writing a new D&D setting ala the Eberron contest, what would you keep from extant drow lore and what would you get rid of?
Is it Lolth and the driders? The inherently evil society built on backstabbing and slavery that collapses if abandoned by their patron? The 'matriarchal' authority structure? Living in the Underdark? Is it the cultural rebels like Drizzt and Eilistraee? Is it the animosity with the other elves?
What makes a drow a drow and what should be forgotten as soon as possible?
Is it Lolth and the driders? The inherently evil society built on backstabbing and slavery that collapses if abandoned by their patron? The 'matriarchal' authority structure? Living in the Underdark? Is it the cultural rebels like Drizzt and Eilistraee? Is it the animosity with the other elves?
What makes a drow a drow and what should be forgotten as soon as possible?
Dangerous elf from underground, powerfully magical and unnaturally skilled in martial matters, older and stronger and more dangerous than almost any human, from a society that thrives on scheming, personally.
And regards treachery as an art form.
A flawlessly executed betrayal not only brings (presumably) material and/or status gains, it brings admiration of other drow as a sheer thing of beauty.
So Mystara's Shadow Elves count, but not the "Dark Elves" from Krynn, in your opinion?
What about Eberron's Drow then?
- Location
- Somewhere
Conversely, getting caught actually draws punishment. In the first novel set amongst them it's made clear that if any actual nobles of the house you were trying to destroy manage to make it out, you get fucked as the ruling council makes an example of you and adopts them into a high ranking house for having proven their skills in surviving the attack.
- Location
- Somewhere
Mystara's shadow elves are more of a straight ethnostate society complete with "and keep ye the other peoples in a separate place lest thy purity be threatened" stuff.
As for Krynn, "Dark Elf" is basically just another word for "outlaw". It's got no cultural or ethnic component, just a legal status.
- Location
- Somewhere
I could be wrong, but I don't think they do the scheming part.
Well, not against each other, but pretty sure they scheme against surface elves fairly often?
He absolutely was. But also a giant misogynist. Oh and racist too (it's why they're black. And when Gygax created them they were black person black and not coal black)
He specifically dislikes gygaxian drow and keep trying to inject ways they cease to be evil
- Location
- Patriarchova
Drow as originally written were probably inspired by Lovecraft and Bishop's Tsathites, from "The Mound." Very techno/magically advanced, hauntingly beautiful people with an underground civilization who have fallen into a state of complete decadence and sadism, and who worship a messed up mother goddess among other eldritch gribblies.
The Tsathites themselves were influenced by some of the darker fair folk legends, of course, so how much of the drow is copied from them and how much is just inspired by the same source material is a reasonable question. But there's definitely at least a little bit of Tsathite in there.
The Tsathites themselves were influenced by some of the darker fair folk legends, of course, so how much of the drow is copied from them and how much is just inspired by the same source material is a reasonable question. But there's definitely at least a little bit of Tsathite in there.
Last edited:
- Location
- Somewhere
I thought maybe the Black Martians/Firstborn from Barsoom were an influence too.
- Location
- Patriarchova
Possibly. Haven't read the Burroughs Mars books.
- Location
- Patriarchova
Unrelated, from today's session:
"Alright, next week we'll start with initiative for your second round of combat against four cows, six peasants, and one bear."
"Alright, next week we'll start with initiative for your second round of combat against four cows, six peasants, and one bear."
Last edited:
- Location
- Somewhere
Obsidian skin, highly skilled long lived dual wielding weapons, matriarchal theocracy with human sacrifice, live underground, raid other races for slaves. Of course the firstborn/black Martians also eat their slaves.
KingseekerFreyr
Currently kingseeking...
- Location
- In a void!
And the Melnibonians from Elric of Melnibone were the progenitors of dark elves or if you see another race of Dark Elves in fiction, they more then likely are taking inspiration from it or another race that has.
One of the books of Corum trilogy explicitly states that Melniboneans (and Vadhag of Corum series) are what humans refer to as "elves"
