Dungeons and Dragons Megathread

To be honest, I've had all of one player really use the Dual Classing rules, so it doesn't really come up much.

Thing is:

if you're just doing it to be a mage with more HP, then the DM should penalize you. That's blatant metagaming as well as the unforgivable crime of munchkinry

If you're doing it because the end goal is simulating a guy who started as a warrior and then turned to magic/religion as age started catching up to him, then that's a neat idea and should be supported.
If you are playing AD&D, and your character isn't a dual-classed 18th level/50th level fighter/magic-user with an 18 in all stats (except for Strength, which is 18/00) who is decked out in magic items you raided from Deities and Demigods, you are Doing It Wrong.
 
I also am of the opinion that some dragons like chromatic or mettalic dragons shoydl be outside the norm of their alignment, like a good purple or blue dragon could be a very interesting npc or ally, and a bronze or gold dragon a uncommon antagonist.
There were some examples of that in the book, too. Silver dragons, the paladins of dragonkind, are more likely to "tarnish" (turn evil) than other metallics due to how much awful stuff they see. While a group of greens (the mad scientists) and bronzes (the bookworms... bookwyrms?) have put aside their differences to cooperate on scientific research.
 
There were some examples of that in the book, too. Silver dragons, the paladins of dragonkind, are more likely to "tarnish" (turn evil) than other metallics due to how much awful stuff they see. While a group of greens (the mad scientists) and bronzes (the bookworms... bookwyrms?) have put aside their differences to cooperate on scientific research.
Interesting in my book there's also a bit on how bronze and greendragons usually will start research shit flinging while in the same party and how it's usually the bronze dragons who apologise and who move on. Green dragons are too proud to actually admit they are wrong.

Honestly I'd like if all dragons kept their usual alignments but made the less enforced bahamut and tiamat can't be around for every dragon 24/7 and it would be neat to see more officially good chromatics or evil Metallics, heck gem dragons already are sorta, kinda, like that and they are really neat.
 
Interesting in my book there's also a bit on how bronze and greendragons usually will start research shit flinging while in the same party and how it's usually the bronze dragons who apologise and who move on. Green dragons are too proud to actually admit they are wrong.

Honestly I'd like if all dragons kept their usual alignments but made the less enforced bahamut and tiamat can't be around for every dragon 24/7 and it would be neat to see more officially good chromatics or evil Metallics, heck gem dragons already are sorta, kinda, like that and they are really neat.
Racial alignments (other than Outsiders) are cultural tendencies, not 100% things. With Dragons that's particularly true in the Dragon-heavy settings like Council of Wyrms and Dragonlance. Literally the 2nd Red Dragon you encounter in Dragonlance lore and mods is best known for sacrificing her life for a bunch of human children. In Faerun we had the ancient red "Mist" who died carrying a paladin into battle against a primordial god of decay and entropy. Etc….
 
Probably worth remembering too that generally speaking, the average white dragon is stupid by dragon standards. A 3.5 example adult white is just as smart as an average adult human, just far more capable at feral violence, it's just that nearly all the other dragons hit or exceed that level of raw intelligence as wyrmlings.
 
Racial alignments (other than Outsiders) are cultural tendencies, not 100% things. With Dragons that's particularly true in the Dragon-heavy settings like Council of Wyrms and Dragonlance. Literally the 2nd Red Dragon you encounter in Dragonlance lore and mods is best known for sacrificing her life for a bunch of human children. In Faerun we had the ancient red "Mist" who died carrying a paladin into battle against a primordial god of decay and entropy. Etc….
Familiar with council of wyrms myself and the only thing I really know about Dragonlance are the draconians who I consider a A or S tier race because of the lore and abilities. But it's nice to know that there are flips in dragon trends even in the main faerun setting.

Probably worth remembering too that generally speaking, the average white dragon is stupid by dragon standards. A 3.5 example adult white is just as smart as an average adult human, just far more capable at feral violence, it's just that nearly all the other dragons hit or exceed that level of raw intelligence as wyrmlings.
Yeah white dragons are feral, not stupid, wyrmlings are arguably dumb but only about a orc level or something, still having some feral cunning and intelligence to be weary of. Although I do consider grey/gray dragons more interesting with the upcoming battle dragons like hunt dragons also being more interesting then white dragons. Although I do like the fact that crystal dragons will sometimes raise white dragon eggs to be better and kinder since Crystal dragons are so friendly and gregarious.
 
In 5e - which is what the post explicitly references, if you'd care to read it - an adult white Dragon has an Int of 8, which is literally below average no matter how you cut it.
 
In 5e - which is what the post explicitly references, if you'd care to read it - an adult white Dragon has an Int of 8, which is literally below average no matter how you cut it.
Where did it explicitly reference 5E? I did read the post, but I must have missed that.
 
Where did it explicitly reference 5E? I did read the post, but I must have missed that.
"To explain this for people not deep into 5e monster lore; D&D dragons are sapient beings, and known for their instincts and tendencies, and whenever you meet an big evil dragon that's really old it's usually this ancient creature of terrible intellect Smaug-ing it up all over the place.
Except white dragons are fucking stupid."
 
Anyways, anyone think the great wyrms as presented in fizban's Treasury are kinda eh? They are cool for what they are but I find them a bit lacking in some fashion.
 
Anyways, anyone think the great wyrms as presented in fizban's Treasury are kinda eh? They are cool for what they are but I find them a bit lacking in some fashion.
As I've said. Go back to their original sizes and relative power. A hundred meter kaiju with literally a thousand years of knowledge and combat experience. Breath that should have a chance of one-shotting the highest HP member of a level 20 party, both wizard and cleric spells, able to attack all party members physically in the same round even when attacked from all sides, with multiple "save or lose a turn" effects like stun and knockdown mixed in as automatic side effects of the attacks. That's how a great Wyrm fight should be.
 
As I've said. Go back to their original sizes and relative power. A hundred meter kaiju with literally a thousand years of knowledge and combat experience. Breath that should have a chance of one-shotting the highest HP member of a level 20 party, both wizard and cleric spells, able to attack all party members physically in the same round even when attacked from all sides, with multiple "save or lose a turn" effects like stun and knockdown mixed in as automatic side effects of the attacks. That's how a great Wyrm fight should be.
I agree with this, great wyrm fights should be incredibly hectic and tense since no matter what, a dragon who reached great wyrm status should be incredibly smart, magically and physically powerful with a breath weapon that is a diet nuke. I do like some bits and pieces presented on them in the treasury but making them just a incredibly rare age category at all dragons could achieve would have been better like in old editions.

Oh well, there's homebrew.
 
To be honest, I've had all of one player really use the Dual Classing rules, so it doesn't really come up much.

Thing is:

if you're just doing it to be a mage with more HP, then the DM should penalize you. That's blatant metagaming as well as the unforgivable crime of munchkinry

If you're doing it because the end goal is simulating a guy who started as a warrior and then turned to magic/religion as age started catching up to him, then that's a neat idea and should be supported.

Isn't metagaming something you have to do sometimes?

I have a Pathfinder Unchained Rogue. I had created one before who used two weapon fighting. Found I rarely was able to use two weapons because attacks often involved movement. You also could not use two weapon strike for sneak attacks. I have a new one who uses an elven curve blade and instead rely on power attacks. It can be used more constantly both for normal attacks and for sneak attacks.

It can be argued that it metagaming, using the rules to your advantage.
 
Isn't metagaming something you have to do sometimes?

I have a Pathfinder Unchained Rogue. I had created one before who used two weapon fighting. Found I rarely was able to use two weapons because attacks often involved movement. You also could not use two weapon strike for sneak attacks. I have a new one who uses an elven curve blade and instead rely on power attacks. It can be used more constantly both for normal attacks and for sneak attacks.

It can be argued that it metagaming, using the rules to your advantage.
Selecting a fighting style advantageous to the character is something that would make sense from the character's point of view. They'd say "hey, this isn't working out well for me in combat, I should try something else". Conversely, "more HP" isn't a thing the character knows about and therefore decisions based on it are metagaming.
 
Yeah I've had an adventure that's essentially about three dragons feuding with each other via proxies that's been cooking on-and-off since 4e and Face-Biter Mike is a very strong type of candidate for one of them.
 
Selecting a fighting style advantageous to the character is something that would make sense from the character's point of view. They'd say "hey, this isn't working out well for me in combat, I should try something else". Conversely, "more HP" isn't a thing the character knows about and therefore decisions based on it are metagaming.

Honestly I could easily create a background which explains someone who starts as a fighter and then decides they want to become a Magic User. Raised b a parent who did not want the kid to become a magic user. Could do something like Vanyel from the Magic Pawn series. In Pathfinder terms though, Vanyel might be Dex build with a rapier as a fighter. That was not available in the original AD&D though.
 
Literally the 2nd Red Dragon you encounter in Dragonlance lore and mods is best known for sacrificing her life for a bunch of human children.
Although that was because she was senile and thought the children were her own wyrmlings.
Conversely, "more HP" isn't a thing the character knows about and therefore decisions based on it are metagaming.
"I have had more close calls than I can count, I'm tired of having stick-limbs and breathing hard when I run, I need to get in shape so a falling branch or something stupid like that doesn't end me for good."
 
"I have had more close calls than I can count, I'm tired of having stick-limbs and breathing hard when I run, I need to get in shape so a falling branch or something stupid like that doesn't end me for good."
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but the guy would not then go "therefore I will study all martial weapons and how to fight in armor". He'd work out. The equivalent of taking the Toughness feat and putting his next star boost into Con.
 
Oddly enough dex build fighters not being a thing makes sense when you consider that D&D was built around eras with Plate being the king of armors. The rapier didn't come into being until after firearms took over the battlefield and the armored knight was dead. So if you have your shining armored knights, you generally don't also have rapier fighters or other light blades. Mainly because they can't hurt the guy in plate the way heavier weapons or the various can opener polearms can.

I don't support making them non-viable in modern games, just a historical note.
 
Oddly enough dex build fighters not being a thing makes sense when you consider that D&D was built around eras with Plate being the king of armors. The rapier didn't come into being until after firearms took over the battlefield and the armored knight was dead. So if you have your shining armored knights, you generally don't also have rapier fighters or other light blades. Mainly because they can't hurt the guy in plate the way heavier weapons or the various can opener polearms can.

I don't support making them non-viable in modern games, just a historical note.
It would be neat to see a D&D setting set in the era where musketeers became a thing, maybe with magic keeping plate viable but very expensive. Or any setting that's firmly grounded in a specific era like Eberron sort of is.
 
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