Dungeons and Dragons Megathread

Yeah I know that, but it's using the 3.X version of D20 rather than one in lines with the rework done in PF. I'm trying to avoid all the fucking half ranks, redundant skills, xp for crafting, bloat dead feats, dead levels, uselessly low DCs for class abilities, and needlessly complex combat maneuvers.
That's why I said make the same basic updates PF did, keep the rest. The Kata rules, Clan feats, and prestige classes had a lot of good flavor. The elemental school wizard from pathfinder with the adjustments I mentioned works as a good shugenja, I've used it as such
 
Sorry if I am wasting anyone's time here: Are the discussions here crunch-exclusive or can we talk about stuff like campaign-ideas, etc. here as well?
 
I had an idea for a "bottle"-setting. Like a bottle-movie it takes place in one more or less clearly defined location exclusively. I was inspired by a challenge I had heard somewhere, about coming up with the idea for a campaign-setting that takes place in a tavern exclusively.


The idea is, the party works at a type of giant inn/onsen. It's basically a big, Spirited Away-style bathhouse, founded by this epic-level cleric of some goddess of civilisation (I am thinking Erathys would fit nicely), meant to act as a sort of neutral ground for all kinds of people and creatures, where they could meet and essentially hang out, negotiate and generally wheel and deal in luxury.

Could be just two nobles clearing up the issue of some land ownership, could be a group of ambassadors from two different empires negotiating a marriage contract. Could also be two emissaries from the plane of Earth and the plane of Air working on a peace treaty.

The party would be essentially employees of that cleric, working on the premises, and their adventures would all be about stuff like negotiating with the goblin tribe of coal shovelers who went on strike because there's something in their burrows, stealing their young. Or maybe evicting a party of adventures who made a mess of their rooms and refuse to pay for damages. Or maybe one day a freaking pit lord showing up, demanding to be served, while the celestial emissary and his posse just arrived.

The other people working there (as well as the party) would either live on the premises or in a village just outside. There would be a big city about two/three days ride away, and that would be as far as the setting goes, at least up until late mid-level, after which you could blow up the scale.

The idea I had with this was basically to go away from the 3-feet-deep-ocean and have a campaign in a 1000-foot-deep-pond so to speak. I am fairly new to DMing, so I have only a small ideqa about what type of buildings and facilities a business like that would have, nor with what type of NPCs I should fill them. Also, while I have some potential adventure-off-the-week-ideas, I have no real idea what type of overarching plot I could build into this setting.
 
I have no real idea what type of overarching plot I could build into this setting.
Brilliant, though painful, way to do it is to not have an overarching plot. After all, everyone from imperial ambassadors to elemental lords to Celestials and Infernals come here for business deals. This is where politics happen, and everything related obviously comes in. Assassination plots would be a daily occurrence here. Money and secrets flow like water. From this one tavern, the whole world can be controlled.

The "setting" is about the politics. If you need an overarching plot, this is where conspiracies thrive, so the metaplot is about the shadowy conspiracies and political dramas. Stuff that a single relatively unremarkable person(who might well still literally own a small country, but a full on Devil Lord outdoes that by owning a plane of existence) can affect massively just by making a blunder with unfamiliar customs. Actual IRL wars have come from this sort of situation, with servants being a major player in making history by making sure unintended offense from the service doesn't set anyone off.

Obviously, it needs to be somewhat high magic if powerful outsiders need to be kept from causing problems. Being high magic also means teleportation access, so people from other continents can hire a Wizard for transportation to the political capital of the world. The sheer wealth flowing through the place means it's also a hotspot for the super rich on leasure trips, who might well make trade agreements on the spot just because it turns out convenient. Seriously, with the wealth going through here, it can easily end up an interplanar travel hub. Kinda like Sigil in tavern form. If Sigil was also a buisness and political hub...
 
Brilliant, though painful, way to do it is to not have an overarching plot. After all, everyone from imperial ambassadors to elemental lords to Celestials and Infernals come here for business deals. This is where politics happen, and everything related obviously comes in. Assassination plots would be a daily occurrence here. Money and secrets flow like water. From this one tavern, the whole world can be controlled.

The "setting" is about the politics. If you need an overarching plot, this is where conspiracies thrive, so the metaplot is about the shadowy conspiracies and political dramas. Stuff that a single relatively unremarkable person(who might well still literally own a small country, but a full on Devil Lord outdoes that by owning a plane of existence) can affect massively just by making a blunder with unfamiliar customs. Actual IRL wars have come from this sort of situation, with servants being a major player in making history by making sure unintended offense from the service doesn't set anyone off.

Obviously, it needs to be somewhat high magic if powerful outsiders need to be kept from causing problems. Being high magic also means teleportation access, so people from other continents can hire a Wizard for transportation to the political capital of the world. The sheer wealth flowing through the place means it's also a hotspot for the super rich on leasure trips, who might well make trade agreements on the spot just because it turns out convenient. Seriously, with the wealth going through here, it can easily end up an interplanar travel hub. Kinda like Sigil in tavern form. If Sigil was also a buisness and political hub...
There is such a tavern. The Inn of the World Serpent. The door can open to any plane (barkeep takes requests), there's an enforced truce (barkeep has demonstrated 20th level abilities in every class), the fare is good (they claim to be able to serve any drink and prepare any meal in the Great Wheel, and powerful folks tend to use it for meetings.

There's supposed to be an entrance on each Prime Material planet too, but the only one I personally recall is from FR where the entrance is the door of another tavern. The get to the World Serpent, you knock on the door and request entry in the name of any god from any setting.
 
Esperanto has become a common second language. That's slightly... odd.
It might be a reference to Red Dwarf, or just a general joke on how some people used to think that Esperanto was "the language of the future."

Is anyone familiar with a Pathfinder conversion for Oriental Adventure and L5R?
As far as I know, there's nothing specifically for L5R/Rokugan (since Paizo, y'know, doesn't own the rights to it), but there's quite a bit of East Asian-themed material for PF.

There was an Adventure Path centered around it, Jade Regent. Ultimate Combat had Samurai and Ninja classes and a sub-chapter on Eastern Arms & Armor and a warrior monk archetype whose name escapes me. There was a Dragon Empires supplement with Geisha as a bard archetype and a Samurai archetype that was iaijutsu focused. Bestiary 3 had a bunch of creatures from Japanese mythology, like oni and kami and kappa and Eastern-style dragons.

There's probably more that I can't recall off the top of my head. Check the d20pfsrd wiki, you'll probably find quite a bit.
 
The "setting" is about the politics. If you need an overarching plot, this is where conspiracies thrive, so the metaplot is about the shadowy conspiracies and political dramas.

I like this. You throw various 'hooks' at the party, in an adventure-of-the-week style, with potentially recurring guest-NPCs and see if they want to pursue one further.



Actual IRL wars have come from this sort of situation, with servants being a major player in making history by making sure unintended offense from the service doesn't set anyone off.

That sounds super interesting. The next thing to do there would be brainstorming ideas on how to convey the scope of the party's action in a meaningful way. Possibly by making the next big negotiation, that is taking place there, about the conflict (or the resolution) that the player's have caused.


Obviously, it needs to be somewhat high magic if powerful outsiders need to be kept from causing problems. Being high magic also means teleportation access, so people from other continents can hire a Wizard for transportation to the political capital of the world. The sheer wealth flowing through the place means it's also a hotspot for the super rich on leasure trips, who might well make trade agreements on the spot just because it turns out convenient. Seriously, with the wealth going through here, it can easily end up an interplanar travel hub. Kinda like Sigil in tavern form. If Sigil was also a buisness and political hub...

I was actually thinking about Sigil when I wrote this idea down for the first time. The epic-level priestess who runs the place should at least be in some way not to be messed with.

The idea is to not make the place too big. It would be a spa and resort first and foremost, with the politically high profile more as a side-effect of the neutral ground. Also, I feel the problems should be able to range in scope. There are lots of cosmically important people there, yes, but they also serve the orc-warlord and his riders (who are basically a bunch of raiders on giant goats). Maybe some type of policy of accepting all guests, as long as they stick to the rules, with a sort of honor-system when it comes to payment. That way even a down-on-his-luck adventurer can stay there for a while and enjoy comfortable service next to celestials and demons. If your funds are deemed insufficient, you are not allowed back (or even allowed in) and maybe cursed with bad luck, or something like that.

Also, it could be one of many "neutral" grounds (but it could be the only one that is an inn as well). That way, it is still important, but you have a justification to adjust the scale to your own needs.
 
Definitely gonna check it out. Thanks!

It sounds almost too big for what I had in mind, the way you tell it.
apparently the Inn was built so that planar travelers could avoid the "violence loving idiots of Sigil" according to Elminster. The place got a 3rd edition remake, https://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/World_Serpent.pdf
Which tones it down a little, although the barkeep Mitchifer is still as scary as he needs to be in any situation.

Previous versions included a suspicion that the Inn's "owner" was the World Serpent Archetype, of which The Serpent (the thing that whispers in Vecna's head), Merrshaulk the Naga god, and even IO, the draconic overgod are aspects.
 
Last edited:
apparently the Inn was built so that planar travelers could avoid the "violence loving idiots of Sigil" according to Elminster. The place got a 3rd edition remake, https://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/World_Serpent.pdf
Which tones it down a little, although the barkeep Mitchifer is still as scary as he needs to be in any situation.

Previous versions included a suspicion that the Inn's "owner" was the World Serpent Archetype, of which The Serpent (the thing that whispers in Vecna's head), Merrshaulk the Naga god, and even IO, the draconic overgod are aspects.

That's the pdf I found as well.

It's not exactly what I had in mind, but definitely a nice point to start from. My idea was a little more ordered and less 'cosmic', more mundane. An actual place on a prime material plane, not a floating pocket-universe, where the rules are based more on checks and balances and 'mortal' power than cosmic intervention by the Lady of Pain or a godling of dubious nature with the backing of an Über-god.

What I liked was the idea that it is run by the care-taker or emissary of an evil or potentially elder god. There are lots of ideas there for the nature behind the place, that one can use.
 
Old, but:
Why would someone want to play DnD, PF, or a d20 variant and not be powerful?
Because several of the D&D systems aren't made specifically to be a powerful person. AD&D 2E's focus - as one example - was more about fantastical medieval (and, if far less successfully / with a lot of erroneous pop culture presumptions, Ancient / Hellenistic / Renaissance) adventures and role-play with combat often secondary or tertiary to everything else. There's a reason - if you look through a lot of 2E's adventure boxes that're meant to be anything more than compilations of one-off murder hobo distractions - the vast majority of chapters and side-adventures focus on stuff like the PC's playing humble or waiting to ambush a force when it's under-strength or getting a force multiplier from allies or something. Heck, there's a reason that at higher levels of 2E one of the most common upgrades for classes (with only Wizards and a handful of other classes the exception) was getting a rump-ton of minions to lead around, whether through example or charisma or seniority or whatnot.

Don't get me wrong, 2E could very much get broken (Polymorph, Other is only acceptable as a 4th Level Spell because of aforementioned 2E spell progression and the fact that the DM can withhold it as long as necessary: I'm not kidding when I say that otherwise it would allow a Level 7 2E Wizard - solo - to kick many Level 13+ 3.5 Parties in the shins and take their lunch money), but a lot of the game was built around a presumption that your character would have at best maybe one or two stats above a 12 (and statistically one or two hovering around 8 or less). Unless the DM fiat'd otherwise, there was a level cap that for several PHB PC races capped out around Levels 12 or 13 (sometimes even lower). Statistically the average Level 20 Fighter would have only ~82 health before Con Bonus (which statistically would likely be +0 unless one of said lucky rolls) while the Party Wizard would be lucky to clear 35 at the same point. A character with more than 15 in their primary class attribute was considered so lucky and fortunate and blessed that they got an additional 10% to all experience gains for the respective class because they were assumed to just have that much an advantage over their peers. And this was a system where attributes - barring rare / DM-delivered artifacts - were static: What you rolled on your 3d6 down-the-line was what you'd have from Level 1 newbie to Level 20 Epic Adventurer.

This is just looking at 2E, but the point being D&D is not attached at the hip to optimization. That didn't start until... some point in 3.5, and even then the game did not begin that way so much as get lead towards it by an increasing expectation of system mastery by the players (in the era of 2E it was not unusual for literally nobody but the DM to have any books: PC's were often rolled on the spot at campaign's start or even pre-constructed by the DM and players allowed to pick from a list of sheets. 3rd edition changed that, and at some point in the day of 3.5 this mutated to a point that three prior editions worth of presumptions about character sheets held less often than it did).
 
Old, but:

Because several of the D&D systems aren't made specifically to be a powerful person. AD&D 2E's focus - as one example - was more about fantastical medieval (and, if far less successfully / with a lot of erroneous pop culture presumptions, Ancient / Hellenistic / Renaissance) adventures and role-play with combat often secondary or tertiary to everything else. There's a reason - if you look through a lot of 2E's adventure boxes that're meant to be anything more than compilations of one-off murder hobo distractions - the vast majority of chapters and side-adventures focus on stuff like the PC's playing humble or waiting to ambush a force when it's under-strength or getting a force multiplier from allies or something. Heck, there's a reason that at higher levels of 2E one of the most common upgrades for classes (with only Wizards and a handful of other classes the exception) was getting a rump-ton of minions to lead around, whether through example or charisma or seniority or whatnot.

Don't get me wrong, 2E could very much get broken (Polymorph, Other is only acceptable as a 4th Level Spell because of aforementioned 2E spell progression and the fact that the DM can withhold it as long as necessary: I'm not kidding when I say that otherwise it would allow a Level 7 2E Wizard - solo - to kick many Level 13+ 3.5 Parties in the shins and take their lunch money), but a lot of the game was built around a presumption that your character would have at best maybe one or two stats above a 12 (and statistically one or two hovering around 8 or less). Unless the DM fiat'd otherwise, there was a level cap that for several PHB PC races capped out around Levels 12 or 13 (sometimes even lower). Statistically the average Level 20 Fighter would have only ~82 health before Con Bonus (which statistically would likely be +0 unless one of said lucky rolls) while the Party Wizard would be lucky to clear 35 at the same point. A character with more than 15 in their primary class attribute was considered so lucky and fortunate and blessed that they got an additional 10% to all experience gains for the respective class because they were assumed to just have that much an advantage over their peers. And this was a system where attributes - barring rare / DM-delivered artifacts - were static: What you rolled on your 3d6 down-the-line was what you'd have from Level 1 newbie to Level 20 Epic Adventurer.

This is just looking at 2E, but the point being D&D is not attached at the hip to optimization. That didn't start until... some point in 3.5, and even then the game did not begin that way so much as get lead towards it by an increasing expectation of system mastery by the players (in the era of 2E it was not unusual for literally nobody but the DM to have any books: PC's were often rolled on the spot at campaign's start or even pre-constructed by the DM and players allowed to pick from a list of sheets. 3rd edition changed that, and at some point in the day of 3.5 this mutated to a point that three prior editions worth of presumptions about character sheets held less often than it did).
I Will note that I literally never heard of any DM actually enforcing the racial level limits, which were regarded by everyone I ever knew as being stupid as shit. And not a single campaign setting enforced them on NPCs.
 
Old, but:

Because several of the D&D systems aren't made specifically to be a powerful person. AD&D 2E's focus - as one example - was more about fantastical medieval (and, if far less successfully / with a lot of erroneous pop culture presumptions, Ancient / Hellenistic / Renaissance) adventures and role-play with combat often secondary or tertiary to everything else.
ADnD was before there were other games out there that did long term play with only a little bit of power increase better than DnD. I agree with the rest of your points, but DnD since 3rd edition has been a game of escalation, nearing on 20 years now, which is more what I was referring to.

Incidentally, I've always wanted to play a 2e campaign, but I've never found someone to run it, nor have I ever been brave enough to really want to play a wizard (I don't think 2e has gish, right, other than multi-classing? Gish is my preferred style of play, like a PF Magus, with full caster being my second favorite) in a system that would put me 100% at GM whims.
 
I Will note that I literally never heard of any DM actually enforcing the racial level limits, which were regarded by everyone I ever knew as being stupid as shit. And not a single campaign setting enforced them on NPCs.

I absolutely know people who enforced level limits, but these same people also cap the game at about level 12 or so, so it wasn't quite as significant of a loss. Everyone who played the full level range took off the level limits, because they predated the 36 level range of BECMI.
 
I absolutely know people who enforced level limits, but these same people also cap the game at about level 12 or so, so it wasn't quite as significant of a loss. Everyone who played the full level range took off the level limits, because they predated the 36 level range of BECMI.
If everyone is limited, then noone really is by comparison. I honestly enjoy higher level stuff more though. I like my fighters to be lords, with castles and troops. (and responsibilities that let me give a reason other than mercenary to pull them into the story), I like my thieves to be legendary badasses who stole the Sultan's prized gem and seduced his daughter. I like my priests to be exemplars who have whole religious orders patterned after them. I like my wizards to be archmages coming down from their towers to support their old friends or to seek that last something for the Great Elixir. I like tjings that feel epic. That's honestly my biggest dislike in 5e. It never feels epic.
 
Incidentally, I've always wanted to play a 2e campaign, but I've never found someone to run it, nor have I ever been brave enough to really want to play a wizard (I don't think 2e has gish, right, other than multi-classing? Gish is my preferred style of play, like a PF Magus, with full caster being my second favorite) in a system that would put me 100% at GM whims.

Gish through multi-classes is it, yea.
 
What are some inventive ways to ferry players to another plane/planet?

Thanadaemons' boats (PF) can move passengers to other planes, for a price.

A scroll of Dream Voyage (PF) can move a group, assuming the target doesn't say no to them.

What are some other ways, and it can be DnD, Pathfinder, or some other game, I'm just looking for ideas, I can fill in the mechanics.
 
What are some inventive ways to ferry players to another plane/planet?
Thanadaemons' boats (PF) can move passengers to other planes, for a price.
A scroll of Dream Voyage (PF) can move a group, assuming the target doesn't say no to them.
What are some other ways, and it can be DnD, Pathfinder, or some other game, I'm just looking for ideas, I can fill in the mechanics.
One of the Wondrous Figurines can Planeshift while you are riding it.
I think the "horse, but not really" one.
 
One of the Wondrous Figurines can Planeshift while you are riding it.
I think the "horse, but not really" one.
Might work, I was trying to find a one-and-done thing, since the party I'm crafting an arc for right now are all level 17 with 1 mythic rank. They're already over powered as is, I don't want to start showering them in expensive items. (this is a Second Darkness game I finished a year ago, and we've had two post-campaign sessions since then. I'm finally getting back to finish writing my post-campaign plot).
 
Might work, I was trying to find a one-and-done thing, since the party I'm crafting an arc for right now are all level 17 with 1 mythic rank. They're already over powered as is, I don't want to start showering them in expensive items. (this is a Second Darkness game I finished a year ago, and we've had two post-campaign sessions since then. I'm finally getting back to finish writing my post-campaign plot).
Ah, I think there was a Key item that turned any door you use it on into a Gate, but after you go through the Key and the door both shatter.
 
This is just looking at 2E, but the point being D&D is not attached at the hip to optimization. That didn't start until... some point in 3.5,
I'm pretty sure that the Optimization Boards were around in the 3.0 days, and if the powergamer in my first group is anything to go by, there were some people who played that way in 2E.

It's the OP Boards that gave us redonkulous shit like Pun-Pun. It's all about people trying to one-up each other instead of making something that would actually be playable in a campaign. A build that depends on having a bunch of buff spells active isn't practical for actual play, because those spells generally only last long enough for one encounter and who only has one encounter in a day during an adventure?

Optimization is really more a symptom of player behavior reinforced by the internet instead of game design. Adventure modules don't assume that the PCs will be min-maxed to the extreme when they set the threat level of the opposition.

What are some inventive ways to ferry players to another plane/planet?
Interplanetary Teleport is a spell in PF.

Yeah, it's an okay item if you happen to have access to a door that you don't mind ruining.
If it can be any door, then just pick one belonginng to somebody you don't like. :p
 
Back
Top