Calling it in two hours
Dragon Kings in the 41st Millennia (Exalted/40K Empire)
- Thread starter StarJaunter
- Start date
- Location
- California
[X] Plan Defense In Depth
Spending AP on a DC 40 chance to get +2 AP for a turn is mostly a waste of AP until we set up the full Breed City to support this kind of summoning. Until the DC is 20 you get 1.2 AP for every AP you put in, except the AP is restricted rather than the most powerful generic AP
Elemental Summoning is still worth it. For the one turn summon you get a net return of 2 AP per AP invested.
Er its two AP for two turns.
So 4 AP times .60 chance =2.4 AP from 1 AP invested.
Whereas the normal one is 3 AP * .7 = 2.1 AP from 1 AP invested.
So mathematically its a better investment.
It comes with the limit of half the return being in a future turn rather than this one, however. But elemental summoning is absurdly useful. I don't see why people keep neglecting it in their plans. Free AP.
Turn 5 Results
Turn 5 Results
[X] Plan Defense In Depth
-[X][Anklok] Training Grounds
DC: 35 > 07
No progress on construction of training grounds is completed because most of the builders and everyone who would be consulted for providing good training ran of to the fight.
Reward: No Progress
-[X][Mosok] Train martial artists
DC: 35 > 39
Training was completed and we now have 100 Terrestrial Martial Artists. Which was useful in the fight.
Reward: 3/3 Complete
-[X][Pterok] Waaagh! Theory
DC: 30 > 72 success
Pterok's discovered that looking upon the winds of essence allows them to glean hints of Waaagh! potency. Thus you should be able to develop a system for rating Waaagh! power. Although a rough estimate should be attainable by anyone who practices fighting the Orks. Experiments with Perception of the Subtle Flaws reveals that certain particularly potent Orks can act as lynchpins in the Waaagh! This Lynchpins or Warbosses would allow the Waaagh! to act at a far higher level locally and perhaps even direct Orks with the apparent effect of intelligent command (or Kunnin as Orks say) Taking out this warboss should dramatically weaken the Waaagh!, temporarily even past what it should be if the Warboss was never there although it should either recover or a new Warboss will arise. This skill is rarer and only a few dozen in any legion know it but there exists the chance of a Draconic Legion picking out this Warboss even if its not obvious. Ancient Understanding can be used to probe the local Waaagh! for information by capturing any Ork in the area. However to be useful the ork must still be in the Waaagh! and ideally unhurt when probed. This would allow elders to "question" the Waaagh! itself for its current plans, location of Warbosses.
Orks cannot see dematerialized elementals or Dragon Kings. Sadly Orks apparently do not count as Creatures of Darkness so they will not suffering agonizing headaches as their flesh and soul withers away of they invade Merela. They also do not seem to suffer when we Bar the Doorway of the Gods although it seems to produce some effect they can notice.
Orks are just as vulnerable to fire as one would expect. Orks never seem to pierce illusions as individuals but the Waaagh! as a whole sometimes seems to notice, which can lead to odd behavior as orks feel compelled to search for things they cannot see to Krump. However a small enough isolate Waaagh! can be fully immersed inside an Elder Mosok's illusion, but expecting a hundred or so Orks to threaten an Elder Dragon King was already laughable. It does prove that the Waaagh! has some degree of awareness of itself as a whole so when only part of it is exposed to an illusion the rest can provide the clues needed to pierce the illusion.
Verdant Understanding allows a Dragon King to attune and use Ork technology as an Ork would use it. Empower Cultivation can be used to cause spore to produce various breeds including orks in conditions other wise impossible, which was handy for our experiments but not something we intend to do much. Shape Plants does not work on Orks, even the spore stage which implies even spores are sapient and/or magical. Alter plants can be used with a touch to heal orks or cause spores to sprout various breeds, even full orks. They can change the breed and cause an ork to experience an effect similar to a potent Waaagh! allowing more potent development of the Ork which can be altered or guided as the Dragon King sees fit within the limits he has of understanding the Ork potential. The power can be used to rip the Ork out of the Waaagh! through mass alterations and attune it as a Vegetative artifact golem. It dies if the attunement lapses rather than rejoin the Waaagh!. However its no easier doing this than making your own vegetative golem of equivalent ability from a tree.
Finally Elder Raptoks can possess an ork as they would a plant OR ignore all examples of Orks including all attuned ork tech and walk through them all. We believe they would have to fight the Warboss as such being would effectively be the manifested "spirit" of the Waaagh! Until a Warboss is fought we do not know how hard or easy a Raptok dueling a Warboss alone in the middle of the Ork army would be. Raptoks cannot take the true physical form of an Ork. We suspect of course this is because the Ork can only exist inside the Waaagh! and transforming into an entire slightly supernatural ecosystem is beyond the capacity of even Elder Raptoks.
Reward: Lots of knowledge of Orks and how Dragon King powers interact with Orks and Waaagh! Any Draconic Legion can gain gets a numerical value of Waaagh! strength of the Ork forces they are facing.
They have a chance to detect a Warboss if it exists.
Special missions using elders to blitz through Orks using Anklok superspeed, Pterok dematerialization, Mosok illusions and teleporting, and raptok ignore all orks until they get to the target are possible but may be too risky. Such elders are still alive because we didn't risk them ALL on the Primordial War after all.
Dragon Kings believe that when a Waaagh! is potent enough it manifests a spirit which will quickly bond with the strongest Ork around creating a Warboss, effectively there version of a Dragon King Chosen.
Crafters speculate that the heart of warboss may be a valuable crafting component or sacrifice to the sun as it would be the metaphysical heart of an ecosystem, not just a single powerful being.
-[X][Raptok] Standard Outfitting x 2 + 1 auto
DC:40 > 46, 52 + 1 auto
Mass production of Ironwood Armor sheathes, Shock Lances and other equipment occurs as crystals focus light to carve essence channels in magitech equipment so it can project attacks and nectar from flowers with impossible geometries is used to trace runes upon ironwood pieces, allowing them to return to life and gain mobility when attuned. More work remains as the team switches gears to produce Thunderbolt shields, fuelbolt launchers and the rest.
Reward: 3/5 complete
-[X][Generic] Isle Cities x 5
DC: 20 > 100, 93, 74, 09, 04 reroll 52
Most of the cities were completed quickly and competently. Millions had moved into various townships, each no more than a million or so total population. Nothing exotic but each was chosen to be easy to defend or near valuable physical or geomantic resources that made the location worth it anyway.
Near the last construction site the digging of the underway seem to have unearthed a cavern sealed for at least tens of thousands of years. When it burst free it cause massive havok, wound hundreds of workers and causing massive destruction. The monster was roughly 15 meters tall once totally above the surface, the beast constantly emits toxic spores and can apparently project a dense spray of vitriolic and venomous acid akin to the substance of the primordial Kimberry.
Legionnaires on patrol and at the nearest Martello Towers responded, several onagers were dragged into position and the work of hasty alchemists had giant garda eggs launch at the beast or dropped on it by brave pteroks. Anklok fire teams move close to apply Heart Flame wreathed blades and firebolts to the creature. Than swarms of hundreds of raptoks, who were nominally the construction crew, swarmed the beast from all sides using their pack tactics, coordination, and slight resistance to the toxic spores to get close and damage important looking parts of the beast. That is why a quick response team of martial artists showed up. They helped the raptoks flee with only minimal losses to the construction crew for their brave nigh sacrifice. Mosok illusions were used to distract the beast as the rest of the Legion troops were pulled back. Than the beast charged towards the nearest high concentration of life and essence, Merela.
Lucky us. As it got in range the Potent essence cannons of the Fortress city spoke in violence and began pounding on the massive creature. Return fire from its Vitriol Cannons could not find purchase against the cities Essence Battlements and continue fire from the cities defenses combined with Alchemical harassment from brave pterok bombers manage to bring it down before it could test the city shields with its claws.
Loss of the construction site, workers needing to heal and mourn friends, and clean up of the monsters path of destruction mean we were not able to finish building the last city before the end of the year.
Reward: 4/5 complete +1 generic AP from being over half done, a few dozen dead and a few hundred maimed but nothing that causes mechanical effect, awareness that Titan scale combat accomplished for minimal cost (thanks to healing reroll) and can now be researched. Body parts preserved from Ancient monster result in gaining 3 x Exotic Stockpile. These are very high quality parts suitable for the greatest of purposes (suitable for level 5+ Artifacts)
[X] Plan Defense In Depth
-[X][Anklok] Training Grounds
DC: 35 > 07
No progress on construction of training grounds is completed because most of the builders and everyone who would be consulted for providing good training ran of to the fight.
Reward: No Progress
-[X][Mosok] Train martial artists
DC: 35 > 39
Training was completed and we now have 100 Terrestrial Martial Artists. Which was useful in the fight.
Reward: 3/3 Complete
-[X][Pterok] Waaagh! Theory
DC: 30 > 72 success
Pterok's discovered that looking upon the winds of essence allows them to glean hints of Waaagh! potency. Thus you should be able to develop a system for rating Waaagh! power. Although a rough estimate should be attainable by anyone who practices fighting the Orks. Experiments with Perception of the Subtle Flaws reveals that certain particularly potent Orks can act as lynchpins in the Waaagh! This Lynchpins or Warbosses would allow the Waaagh! to act at a far higher level locally and perhaps even direct Orks with the apparent effect of intelligent command (or Kunnin as Orks say) Taking out this warboss should dramatically weaken the Waaagh!, temporarily even past what it should be if the Warboss was never there although it should either recover or a new Warboss will arise. This skill is rarer and only a few dozen in any legion know it but there exists the chance of a Draconic Legion picking out this Warboss even if its not obvious. Ancient Understanding can be used to probe the local Waaagh! for information by capturing any Ork in the area. However to be useful the ork must still be in the Waaagh! and ideally unhurt when probed. This would allow elders to "question" the Waaagh! itself for its current plans, location of Warbosses.
Orks cannot see dematerialized elementals or Dragon Kings. Sadly Orks apparently do not count as Creatures of Darkness so they will not suffering agonizing headaches as their flesh and soul withers away of they invade Merela. They also do not seem to suffer when we Bar the Doorway of the Gods although it seems to produce some effect they can notice.
Orks are just as vulnerable to fire as one would expect. Orks never seem to pierce illusions as individuals but the Waaagh! as a whole sometimes seems to notice, which can lead to odd behavior as orks feel compelled to search for things they cannot see to Krump. However a small enough isolate Waaagh! can be fully immersed inside an Elder Mosok's illusion, but expecting a hundred or so Orks to threaten an Elder Dragon King was already laughable. It does prove that the Waaagh! has some degree of awareness of itself as a whole so when only part of it is exposed to an illusion the rest can provide the clues needed to pierce the illusion.
Verdant Understanding allows a Dragon King to attune and use Ork technology as an Ork would use it. Empower Cultivation can be used to cause spore to produce various breeds including orks in conditions other wise impossible, which was handy for our experiments but not something we intend to do much. Shape Plants does not work on Orks, even the spore stage which implies even spores are sapient and/or magical. Alter plants can be used with a touch to heal orks or cause spores to sprout various breeds, even full orks. They can change the breed and cause an ork to experience an effect similar to a potent Waaagh! allowing more potent development of the Ork which can be altered or guided as the Dragon King sees fit within the limits he has of understanding the Ork potential. The power can be used to rip the Ork out of the Waaagh! through mass alterations and attune it as a Vegetative artifact golem. It dies if the attunement lapses rather than rejoin the Waaagh!. However its no easier doing this than making your own vegetative golem of equivalent ability from a tree.
Finally Elder Raptoks can possess an ork as they would a plant OR ignore all examples of Orks including all attuned ork tech and walk through them all. We believe they would have to fight the Warboss as such being would effectively be the manifested "spirit" of the Waaagh! Until a Warboss is fought we do not know how hard or easy a Raptok dueling a Warboss alone in the middle of the Ork army would be. Raptoks cannot take the true physical form of an Ork. We suspect of course this is because the Ork can only exist inside the Waaagh! and transforming into an entire slightly supernatural ecosystem is beyond the capacity of even Elder Raptoks.
Reward: Lots of knowledge of Orks and how Dragon King powers interact with Orks and Waaagh! Any Draconic Legion can gain gets a numerical value of Waaagh! strength of the Ork forces they are facing.
They have a chance to detect a Warboss if it exists.
Special missions using elders to blitz through Orks using Anklok superspeed, Pterok dematerialization, Mosok illusions and teleporting, and raptok ignore all orks until they get to the target are possible but may be too risky. Such elders are still alive because we didn't risk them ALL on the Primordial War after all.
Dragon Kings believe that when a Waaagh! is potent enough it manifests a spirit which will quickly bond with the strongest Ork around creating a Warboss, effectively there version of a Dragon King Chosen.
Crafters speculate that the heart of warboss may be a valuable crafting component or sacrifice to the sun as it would be the metaphysical heart of an ecosystem, not just a single powerful being.
-[X][Raptok] Standard Outfitting x 2 + 1 auto
DC:40 > 46, 52 + 1 auto
Mass production of Ironwood Armor sheathes, Shock Lances and other equipment occurs as crystals focus light to carve essence channels in magitech equipment so it can project attacks and nectar from flowers with impossible geometries is used to trace runes upon ironwood pieces, allowing them to return to life and gain mobility when attuned. More work remains as the team switches gears to produce Thunderbolt shields, fuelbolt launchers and the rest.
Reward: 3/5 complete
-[X][Generic] Isle Cities x 5
DC: 20 > 100, 93, 74, 09, 04 reroll 52
Most of the cities were completed quickly and competently. Millions had moved into various townships, each no more than a million or so total population. Nothing exotic but each was chosen to be easy to defend or near valuable physical or geomantic resources that made the location worth it anyway.
Near the last construction site the digging of the underway seem to have unearthed a cavern sealed for at least tens of thousands of years. When it burst free it cause massive havok, wound hundreds of workers and causing massive destruction. The monster was roughly 15 meters tall once totally above the surface, the beast constantly emits toxic spores and can apparently project a dense spray of vitriolic and venomous acid akin to the substance of the primordial Kimberry.
Legionnaires on patrol and at the nearest Martello Towers responded, several onagers were dragged into position and the work of hasty alchemists had giant garda eggs launch at the beast or dropped on it by brave pteroks. Anklok fire teams move close to apply Heart Flame wreathed blades and firebolts to the creature. Than swarms of hundreds of raptoks, who were nominally the construction crew, swarmed the beast from all sides using their pack tactics, coordination, and slight resistance to the toxic spores to get close and damage important looking parts of the beast. That is why a quick response team of martial artists showed up. They helped the raptoks flee with only minimal losses to the construction crew for their brave nigh sacrifice. Mosok illusions were used to distract the beast as the rest of the Legion troops were pulled back. Than the beast charged towards the nearest high concentration of life and essence, Merela.
Lucky us. As it got in range the Potent essence cannons of the Fortress city spoke in violence and began pounding on the massive creature. Return fire from its Vitriol Cannons could not find purchase against the cities Essence Battlements and continue fire from the cities defenses combined with Alchemical harassment from brave pterok bombers manage to bring it down before it could test the city shields with its claws.
Loss of the construction site, workers needing to heal and mourn friends, and clean up of the monsters path of destruction mean we were not able to finish building the last city before the end of the year.
Reward: 4/5 complete +1 generic AP from being over half done, a few dozen dead and a few hundred maimed but nothing that causes mechanical effect, awareness that Titan scale combat accomplished for minimal cost (thanks to healing reroll) and can now be researched. Body parts preserved from Ancient monster result in gaining 3 x Exotic Stockpile. These are very high quality parts suitable for the greatest of purposes (suitable for level 5+ Artifacts)
The issue is that they are temporary, narrow, uncontrolled AP with a low success rate. Currently its simply much more efficient to work on lowering the DC, at DC 30 they become a competitive AP sink even if the AP is still uncontrolled, at DC 20 they'd probably become a staple once per turn action.
But its still vastly behind setting up the logistics needed for a navy, which has already been explained to be the cause of many of our high DC options. And an army, considering we're going to need to fight really soon.
E: nice, rare mats might want to go into high end artifacts for our anti-warboss Elder kill squads. We can't replace Elders after all.
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It is at DC30. That is not a low success rate.
Dude. Summoning elementals would easily be used to setup a navy infrastructure.
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- Location
- California
Incredible. We learned of this without being in a war, or ridiculous casualties. An unintentional result.
These are terrible ideas. Let's never employ them.
Bolded the main problems
40% chance of wasting the AP.
AP can only go to multi-turn projects, Elementals cannot be assigned to intrigue, or military actions, as they only take one turn. Elementals cannot be assigned to research actions, as they cannot help.
This means 2 AP going to a construction project, but the problem with construction projects isn't AP cost, its high DCs from bad logistics and workshops. Lower the DC by 20 on the Racial capitals and we can literally finish them in one turn using generic AP with more to spare. We're usually better off just spending the AP directly on the project to finish it in one turn instead of doing it over two, as construction projects often have a minimum 2 AP requirement.
If we finish early due to rolling well, the 2 AP on next turn is wasted.
It looks attractive.
Looks.
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- Location
- California
What's the issue? We know the action could be unpredictable since we received it since turn 1. The real money maker is Bribe the Spirits To Do Their Job as that gives a flat bonus of 5 to everything. 5 doesn't sound like much, but it is when doing 6 different things at a modest DC. Could be the difference between a wasted turn, and a highly productive one.
Bribe the spirits is probably highly attractive when we start building the species capitals.
The thing with unpredictable is that its bad for planning infrastructure unless you're at peace. We're dealing with orks right on the border of some of our species capitals, any construction not complete in one turn is going to be luring ork attacks without having the defenses of a complete one.
Short version: Elemental Unity is great for upteching workshops, because those are things we can build slowly and steadily, at no particular rush while we do other things. Elemental Unity + minimum AP is quite optimal for those.
Its not good for strategic positions or high difficulty low successes constructions.
- Location
- California
Okay, that just means we're developing stratagem about our faction. When we act it must be with care, but the results will come quicker than overs. Do you think we should employ them for our future space program after we deal with the Orks or for producing stockpiles?
They'd be amazing for producing stockpile yeah, once we have all the racial capitals I think we'd probably permanently have an AP on elemental->stockpile. The risk doesn't matter much since its non-urgent, as long as we have more stockpile when we need it
- Location
- California
What's your opinion on Elemental Support? It doesn't have the multi-turn benefits, but it seems to be more widespread, has a lower DC, and 1 more dice.
Hmm, pretty good really. Would prefer the DC to be 10 lower, but I could feasibly see pairing several of this with Workshops and not-threatened Racial Capitals.
Good to go with any of these:
Take the minimum 2 AP for 3 of these and take 2 of that and that means they'd be filled in as-needed with the elementals after we see which ones are still lacking successes.
Nonsense. Just do it like the Eldar do it. Do it on a world where you do not have anything you care about nearby.
Hell, that would be a hilarious trick to pull on Biel Tan when they fuck with us later on. Find Maiden world, generate super orks on it. Or similar. Is it dickish? Extremely. But I don't feel any guilt for doing it to people like Biel Tan.
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
Messing around with the Orks genetically/magically is an absolutely awful idea that can only end badly. They're far too resilient (themselves and their spores) and widespread. What if in the process of messing with a group of them, we cause some kind of Waagh Signal that draws in a shitload of them from elsewhere?
Best to not touch them and focus on other projects.
Best to not touch them and focus on other projects.
Anything badass by nature is usable as rare materials, anything badass by development is usable as rare materials. An Exalt's body parts are good for lots of mid range stuff...
[Eyes Space Marines]
No, I thought this was clear, the elementals are more multipurpose and longer lasting in this project which is why the bonus is less. IE I assign the two dice in the turn it succeeded and I assign the two dice the next project.
The dice need not apply to the same project in the same turn let alone across turns.
Dedicating the elementals to a single pre-determined project would produce either easier or more potent effects.
Its age and the fact it was lost in a cave for so long is the source of its potency. One "cheap" source of exotic components is to find something that has been lost (ten years for level one, one hundred years for level two, 100,000 years for level 5.)
Though it being basically a Behemoth certainly helped which is why you got three stockpiles of the best quality. A stockpile being not a single component but something appropriate to matter on the scale of a voidship, outfitting an army, or building a manse city.
Um there are lots of sources indicating at least hints of tyranids sending scout parties or there being some psuedo tyranid like beings existing in the past all over the lore. Its never explained, other than a magos examining some trophy from 5,000 to 10,000 years ago and saying this is very similar to tyranid bioforms despite having them not show up in mass until "now"
Your crafters have been using there own blood to "water" alchemical shrubs and artifact plantings and their own ground up scales and claws as dust in crystalline formation.
Humans in this situation, even if they had the "technology" would be a lot worse off unless that had exalted or an equivalent like space marines.
Keep in mind the really good components tend to require going questing in the Wyld/Warp for impossible products and or massive infrastructure works on the "drains AP just to keep active" level.
- Location
- California
QM covered this, but in a way it's sort of canon. Tyrannids have consistently be shown to appear in locations before the first fleets ever arrive. I can only assume that's a combination of vanguard scouts, and the time properties of the Warp.