Remove ads

Dragon Kings in the 41st Millennia (Exalted/40K Empire)

Reader mode
We do not need grox ranches yet. StarJaunter said that.

StarJaunter has said we can fight the Orkz. If we go to war with them now we can colonize the planets and get that AP faster. The faster we expand, the faster we can fulfill our oaths and the more of the Koronus sector we can take instead of letting the Imperium or other xenos take it over.

I am not voting for Cart Before The Horse.

StarJaunter said:
This group: We can meaningful contribute to a sector scale war, have plans to steal a blackstone fortress and stab Abaddon!

Also this group: Oh no the orks on that neighboring planet are scary! There are like a couple million of them and they have like a dozen ship shaped piles of rust! Whatever will we do!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
I am not afraid of these orks. That's why I want to upgrade our warbirds to Mark 3 now, while we don't need them to win a war. While we can test and fix them with minimal risk. None of these plans will finish that but we don't need to waste the opportunity.

I want to test the alt. Paths before they all turn into Chaos cults, which the QM confirmed they will.
 
Last edited:
Bear Templar said:
Question does -[] Endless Mine (all) 12 AP mean build one endless mine but both sub options? One for every planet with a major earth manse? Try to convert every major earth manse into an endless mine?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

One manse with both sub-options, yes. There may be a better way to phrase that but I'm confident that the meaning got across.

F0lkL0re said:
I think I would rather have them burning Orks personally.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I didn't think we hated Orks and that seems a prerequisite for using the Pyre pathists. Fair Folk on the other hand, there's history there.

Bear Templar said:
When we get round to the Elder Manse temples which would we focus on?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

My inclination is to start with Isha's manse then start working our way through some order of Vaul, Cegorath, Khaine and Hoeth, trying for ~1/turn if we can manage it (and I think we can, if we have the voting discipline). Isha first because IIRC we're likely to get some sort of visitation from her (tipping off the Eldar that 'crap she's alive we just need to save her' and earning us some degree of diplomatic pull), Vaul because I think we can complete his quest fairly quickly and we'll get some sort of Factory Cathedral out of it, Khaine because we can get training grounds that help produce hero units (the sorts of heroes that excel in what the Eldar of ancient days referred to as 'mürdër~'), Cegorath because Exotic Stockpile income (plus some other goodies, like 'Mosok Shadowseers', 'access to the Webway' and 'help a brother steal souls from She Who Thirsts (gotta help a brother out)' and Hoeth because Research AP auto-sux, limited access to Solar Circle Sorcery and because I like our chances of progressing on his quest fairly reasonably as well.

Before we start on any of their temple-cities though we should get the local Ondar Shambol completed, else it would seem impious of us to prioritize foreign gods to the same degree as the Most High. (Also it'll help us with population raising actions; 50 AP to get enough to populate two major planets or three minor planets, not a bad bargain)

StarJaunter said:
To a degree, you are currently not even using all your capacity because your fleet is too small. You are using 6 of 9. You can build one more templeship and one more chariot class before actually adding on to your upkeep cost.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Or just the Games of Divinity class! Which I'm hoping to build once we get access to moonsilver on Therek. So much to do, so little AP!
 
Slamu said:
My inclination is to start with Isha's manse then start working our way through some order of Vaul, Cegorath, Khaine and Hoeth, trying for ~1/turn if we can manage it (and I think we can, if we have the voting discipline). Isha first because IIRC we're likely to get some sort of visitation from her (tipping off the Eldar that 'crap she's alive we just need to save her' and earning us some degree of diplomatic pull), Vaul because I think we can complete his quest fairly quickly and we'll get some sort of Factory Cathedral out of it, Khaine because we can get training grounds that help produce hero units (the sorts of heroes that excel in what the Eldar of ancient days referred to as 'mürdër~'), Cegorath because Exotic Stockpile income (plus some other goodies, like 'Mosok Shadowseers', 'access to the Webway' and 'help a brother steal souls from She Who Thirsts (gotta help a brother out)' and Hoeth because Research AP auto-sux, limited access to Solar Circle Sorcery and because I like our chances of progressing on his quest fairly reasonably as well.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'd prefer to start with Hoeth in order to speed up our research then go on to do Isha as we have to summon her avatar as part of her quest chain rather then automatically getting a visit from her.

From the Eldar gods thread mark:
StarJaunter said:
Isha: Being still alive Isha is both the easiest and hardest. Communicating with her in her entrapped state should be as simple as building any quality of temple to her and performing a relatively simple ritual to invoke an avatar inside her temple. (Fancier temples would make it easier). Freeing Isha from her entrapment on the other hand may be harder than anything else.
-Build Isha Temple (any)
-Ritual (better temples lower DC)
-Free a Primordial's Beloved Victim?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

@StarJaunter all together how much geomantic power are we producing and how many hearthstones are currently being used to power our fleet? Because I swear that we only have the one just now but this from the assets threadmark
StarJaunter said:
5 x Geomantic Relays assigned
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
makes it look like we have five
 
F0lkL0re said:
@StarJaunter is there any point in using divination support on Continuing Grace if we're also putting an exotic stockpile on it as well?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Previously it has brought us to DC 5, making calculations much easier as 'we might not meet DC 30' becomes 'so long as we don't roll a 01'.

F0lkL0re said:
@StarJaunter all together how much geomantic power are we producing and how many hearthstones are currently being used to power our fleet? Because I swear that we only have the one just now but this from the assets threadmark
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I presume geomantic power is "how many basic manses do you have?", with some exceptions. I low key want to do a project to make enough geomantic relays to swap out hearthstones in use aboard ships, and I think if we build nine at once that should cover what we have and a Games of Divinity templeship once we get moonsilver up and aren't paying through the beak to have Elders work on production instead of merely refining what's already available.

Tangentially related, but how do we feel about mothballing the Stalking Mantis? We can use the freed up AP to research how to make a proper spy ship and I presume we'd be shelling out for moonsilver to help it remain hidden (as we likely aren't going to be building great fleets of these all at once).
 
F0lkL0re said:
is there any point in using divination support on Continuing Grace if we're also putting an exotic stockpile on it as well?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I don't think the DC bottoms out if you do both so it works.

F0lkL0re said:
makes it look like we have five
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You have ONE geomantic relay manse that produces those five geomantic relays.

*looks at asset tab*
Your current ships are consuming 22 power.

Thus you have 17 Hearthstones and 5 relays onboard the Stalking Mantis, Abundant Feast, and Speak with Authority.

You can build three more geomantic relays which would free up 12 Manses to other uses just with your current power demand. With a second Harmonic Resonance you would go to 30 power demand and can justify 6 full geomancy manses to cover the power needs (or five more than you have)

Standard Flotilla is of course auto building these, which is why they are only using up 24 manses.
 
Slamu said:
My inclination is to start with Isha's manse then start working our way through some order of Vaul, Cegorath, Khaine and Hoeth, trying for ~1/turn if we can manage it (and I think we can, if we have the voting discipline). Isha first because IIRC we're likely to get some sort of visitation from her (tipping off the Eldar that 'crap she's alive we just need to save her' and earning us some degree of diplomatic pull), Vaul because I think we can complete his quest fairly quickly and we'll get some sort of Factory Cathedral out of it, Khaine because we can get training grounds that help produce hero units (the sorts of heroes that excel in what the Eldar of ancient days referred to as 'mürdër~'), Cegorath because Exotic Stockpile income (plus some other goodies, like 'Mosok Shadowseers', 'access to the Webway' and 'help a brother steal souls from She Who Thirsts (gotta help a brother out)' and Hoeth because Research AP auto-sux, limited access to Solar Circle Sorcery and because I like our chances of progressing on his quest fairly reasonably as well.

Before we start on any of their temple-cities though we should get the local Ondar Shambol completed, else it would seem impious of us to prioritize foreign gods to the same degree as the Most High. (Also it'll help us with population raising actions; 50 AP to get enough to populate two major planets or three minor planets, not a bad bargain)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I was also thinking in terms of which type of manse for each. Since they each had a Ondar Shambol equivalent plus one of the goods of the god (plantation, factory cathedral etc.), a lesser temple but 5 of said goods, or 1 temple and a dedicated high end workshop. And I imagine different gods different focuses... for instance I doubt anyone wants a Ondar Shambol for Khaine (wouldn't that basically be a dark elf city?). Five Factory Cathedrals is a potent thing although more interested in the high end artificer lab. Actually I think I simply prefer the Sublime options... although if there was a second Vaul location the cathedrals would be useful.

My understanding is the Ondar Shambol equivalents basically strengthens the god and allows more powerful rituals associated with them at the location... Which is why I assume there is some debate as to which is a better fit (I'm thinking Isha here).

Huh, Cauldron Most Fantastic plus Forge Most Sublime... high tier materials plus high tier workshop, well that has some synergy.

I'm now just thinking of what temple ships dedicated to each god would be like


Would one of the key differences between Vaul and the Great Maker be that Vaul is more focused on individual crafting while Autochthon is far better at industry? (naturally both can do either just thinking in terms of how they are different)
StarJaunter said:
Mostly because that is what I consider basic default weaponry, a mix of weapons that prevents any special effects but also removes any noteworthy weaknesses and is much denser to achieve that level of threat than what the setting would consider normal weapons like Macro Cannons.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thank you... I was (and still am) acting under the assumption that if a ship has no weapon slot mentioned that it was unarmed rather than the Magitech weapons were better than default. So my understanding of the Games of Divinity Class is it doesn't have attacks outside of hangar actions... and ramming though I don't think that is a good use of a carrier.


Does the Mark IV Heavy Sonic Cannon basically count as the temple for the Harmonic Resonance Class Templeship? Since the ship itself doesn't have a temple listed.
 
Slamu said:
I presume geomantic power is "how many basic manses do you have?", with some exceptions. I low key want to do a project to make enough geomantic relays to swap out hearthstones in use aboard ships, and I think if we build nine at once that should cover what we have and a Games of Divinity templeship once we get moonsilver up and aren't paying through the beak to have Elders work on production instead of merely refining what's already available.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
When I said geomantic power I was referring to the relays rather then basic manses and as for the need for more that is why I put one in my plan with the aim being to produce at least one per turn until we have enough for both our current and a few future ships.

EDIT:
Slamu said:
Tangentially related, but how do we feel about mothballing the Stalking Mantis? We can use the freed up AP to research how to make a proper spy ship and I presume we'd be shelling out for moonsilver to help it remain hidden (as we likely aren't going to be building great fleets of these all at once).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I was thinking of doing a 25 year divination for the [night] Drive project.
 
Last edited:
StarJaunter said:
[ ] Harmonious Lore Understanding Manse: Air Chakra is turned into wisdom at this center for advanced research. This manse grants a free AP to apply to research although it can only apply where you have appropriate facilities. This AP counts towards the minimum but some research has minimums over 1. AP Needed: 1. DC: 20. Success Needed: 4. Reward: Lose one Major Air Manse and gain one Harmonious Lore Understanding Manse.
-[ ] Ship Design Studio: This facility enables research into a new Ship designs and components of said ships. Basic components and small ships are usually only 1 AP to research and could be handled completely in house. AP Needed: 2. DC: 25. Success Needed: 9. Reward: You can apply a Research AP to Ship and Ship Component Design.
-[ ] Automata and Crafted Consciousness: This facility enables research into new Automata and any improvements or research into Crafted Consciousness, Perfected Calculation Arrays or Data spirits. AP Needed: 3. DC: 45. Success Needed: 9. Reward: You can apply a Research AP to Robots, Computers, and Programming.
-[ ] Wyld Shaping Wonders: This facility enables research into Wyld, Shaping it, and protection from such. Wondrous Globes of Precious Stability and Hands of the Great Maker fall under this, but so would Wyld cannons or improvements to a Chancel. AP Needed: 4. DC: 55. Success Needed: 9. Reward: You can apply a Research AP to Wyld and Wyld Shaping tech.
-[ ] Weapon and Armor Lab: This facility enables research into weapon systems, armors, and any other defensive systems you might develop. AP Needed: 2. DC: 35. Success Needed: 9. Reward: You can apply a Research AP to Offensive and Defensive Systems
-[ ] Occult Sciences Department: This facility enables research into occult science fields, Temporal Manipulation, Teleportation and the like. AP Needed: 2. DC: 40. Success Needed: 9. Reward: You can apply a Research AP to Occult Sciences.
-[ ] Sorcery and Sorcerous Workings: This facility enables research into sorcery, sorcerous workings, and adjacent things like the Crucible of Tarim. AP Needed: 3. DC: 40. Success Needed: 9. Reward: You can apply a Research AP to Sorcery.
-[ ] Greater Wonders Workshop: This facility allows the research bonus to apply to items that will require construction in a Factory Cathedral or greater facility, like Void Abacus or Thousand Forged Dragons. AP Needed: 3. DC: 45. Success Needed: 9. Reward: You can apply a Research AP to Greater Wonders.
-[ ] Adventurers Forum: A small city filled with communal areas where storytellers and adventurers can ply their trade and Libraries filled with Travelogues, "factual" accounts, and other wonders can be reviewed, discussed, and debated. Allows certain Pterok to gain notoriety. AP needed: 3. DC: 20. Successes Needed: 9. Reward: You gain a Pterok Breed AP, one per planet. Easier chance of a heroic adventurer arising (or a "heroic" one).
-[ ] Hidden Empyerean (Ophelis Only): Ophelis is somehow sheltered, unable to be found in the Warp unless you already know it's there. We very much wish to learn how this is done but expect it to be a long process of study. Which means we should start it. [Assume a similar project is required in any star system with such a feature you want to study] AP Needed: 3. 45. Success Needed: 9. Reward: You lose the Research AP dice provided by this manse, you gain a d100 roll every turn. If you roll a natural 100 you make the breakthrough needed to understand this phenomenon.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So, I've been thinking on this and want to go to the 'think out loud' portion so that people can argue with me properly. As I imagine it, we're going to want at least one of these manses per world that can support them, both for the inherent research AP and for the +Pterok AP. What submodule we want is variable. Obviously 'more is better' but we have a finite amount of AP and Air-aspected Demenses.

Ship Design Studio: We need at least 1, allowing us to work on Components (of which we have a number we want to work through), Drive systems (of which we have several we want to invent, and several more we want to refine), and actual ship designs (of which we have a few we want to develop). This includes Warbirds research. The low DC to build makes this easier to argue for early on. Currently we can expect this to

Automata and Crafted Consciousness: We want at least 2 of these so we can work on the digital spirits and assorted golem researches while we can employ the actual Golem Workshops to roll out golems, be it 'Legion of Servants' or 'Jungle Host upgrade' or 'help make crash dummy golems supporting improved prayer piece research'. There's a tiny chance it might help with creating Advisor-class Consciousnesses but I'm not holding my breath.

Wyld Shaping Wonders: I'm unsure how many we want, but I imagine we'll get at least 2 for Tokat and Ophelis, with one supporting the Hidden Empyerean on Ophelis (making that project simpler when it procs) and the other supporting the Impossible Design Evocatorium on Tokat. The projects listed are few in number but consequential, so I figure the WSW AP being less 'ongoing research in the background' and more 'support for when we attempt to tackle this'. I'm unclear on whether Wyld Shaping Wonders would be helpful in psyker, Blank or similar projects but it seems plausible on a persistent case-by-case basis. Best case scenario I've got right now for a single AP is to support Navigators research and training, and even that is...iffy.

Weapon and Armor Lab: We'll want at least 1, and just working on the various +ramming techs we can stay busy for a century. Most of the weapons or defensive tech research I want done can also (likely, I presume) be supported by ship design studio AP as it's stuff like 'improved Ox-Body components', 'Essence Battlements Mk. II' and 'lance batteries'. A fairly clear-cut case of 'more is preferred but one is sufficient to get started'.

Occult Sciences Department: Judging by Temporal Mechanics Fundamentals, Cloaking Fundamentals and Teleportation Fundamentals we'll want 3 AP to just do minimum investment, the DC will be 40+ and we'll need a dozen successes or more. Something we want running in the background (and that we can be pleasantly surprised when it finishes and we can do a project to develop Stargate style teleportation rings. A caveat; I think we can probably work with just one for a few turns if we only want it to work on Hrud Entropic effects (it seems to be related, how applicable it is remains to be seen).

Sorcery and Sorcerous Workings: We will want at least one and preferably two here; one lets us work on researching TCS spells (of which we have a bountiful backlog, and are worthy of research) while the second opens up CCS spells which are an order of magnitude more potent and sorcery-adjacent support equipment such as the Sorcerous Thrones and Crucible(s) of Tairn. I imagine it also lets us research necromancy, which has implications for Blanks.

Greater Wonders Workshop: I'm unsure how much we want to invest in this. Obviously "at least some", but as much as I'm inclined to pivot to producing high-end Wonders like the Hand of the Great Maker or the improved Factory Cathedrals, their minimum investments tend to be 3 AP or more. At current I'm thinking we'll want just one and combine it with some other related library like the Wyld Shaping Wonders manses and focus on such projects as can be researched.

Hidden Empyerean (Ophelis Only): Is there anyone that doesn't want at least one of these? My concern is that we have no idea how long it will take to get that breakthrough, and after 20 turns of rolling it'll feel tempting to point fingers and say 'if only we had invested elsewise'. There's the chance that it'll roll a 100 the first time, of course, but that's the funny thing about chance; it's chancy. I have vague hopes about the +10 to Random Events Rolls the Solar Invigoration Chapel gives but I don't want to get my hopes up. Similarly I'm toying with the idea of an astrology project ("question: does the HE manse declare a breakthrough? 1/5") but while that might cause some rolling ahead of time so we know that in 17 turns we'll get that breakthrough (while still having to wait until then) or perhaps setting up another Wyld Manse on Ophelis for the purpose of getting an Eye of the Outsider Observatory to improve resolution on 'what is going on locally' (plus get heads up on if people are going to come knocking) the only things I can think of to help the performance of this particular manse is a) build another manse so we're rolling twice and/or b) add a Wyld Shaping Wonders library to the same manse in the hope that it lets the researchers pivot quickly to "what was going on here?" which seems a bit profligate with AP at present.

Some potential other add-ons (and why we're likely not going to see them);
- reverse engineering [species] design philosophy: A fun concept to help with things like 'what can we do with the Rhino' and 'what can Ork Tek do for us' but the reverse engineering bit is already a bit of a gimmick from Abraxus and we need to translate it into something that makes sense for the Dragon Kings as it is. While I can see some utility with Eldar tech (as it seems to be the most directly analogous to our own) and we could probably take advantage of Tau or Imperial tech if handed to us, I doubt we'll make extensive use of their high-end tech on a regular basis.

- Martial Arts research: I actually considered this, but it looks like Study of the Perfected Lotus is the closest we're likely to get with the -10 DC to develop a new martial arts style. This is the closest I see to be actually viable on this list ("this is a big library on martial arts esoterica that makes it more sophisticated than just throwing hands") but just like how we're getting "easier to train spies for a species" instead of 'training tool to build more spies' we're getting "easier to research Martial Arts" instead of "added AP for the purpose of inventing new MA"

- Military history/lore/research: Something like this exists in the form of Leeyata's Temples acting as museums of past Dragon King accomplishments, but for all that I had the notion of 'AP for developing, refining and observing military doctrines and strategies' it felt a bit too...clunky for reasonable consideration. Unlike most of these entries I didn't see us making regular use of it, but rather intermittent use (when we encounter a race with substantially new methods of fighting or strategic considerations). Probably best kept to being mentioned as being a thing ("the libraries of Pterok and Anklok elders were scoured to see if anything like this was seen before" etc) but stick with the current method of 'just throw regular AP at it', even if I'm tempted by things like 'learn how to better board Ork ships' and 'develop Wyld fighting tactics'.

- Vegetative lore: This one I'm thinking we're unlikely to get because it just feels so commonplace in Dragon King culture and society; anyone walking the Wood Paths would likely be taught the basics of whatever plants are most useful on a regular basis and while specialized plants or requirements likely are recorded somewhere when the first step of the Growing Wood path is "you know this plant inside and out" and the third step is "you have a heart-to-heart talk with the Least God of this tree and explain what you want to happen with it" presumably great tomes of herb lore are superfluous. Instead, when such are available at all, I imagine they take the form of greenhouses with erudite ferns primed to talk at length about what can be done when you splice a spruce with a spud or how to make a clever clover. Much like how in time various actions we could apply Paths to (research, biothaumaturgy, Underworld interactions, etc) will get easier as more Dragon Kings adopt alternate Paths and it simply becomes assumed that the people assigned to spy on things in the Underworld have the Ghostwalker path. Therefore, as much as I want to say 'and we put the Magic Greenhouse of All Leaf-y Wisdom towards researching Blood Berries' (which honestly I see more as being more of a Wood Manse akin to the Green Rider than an Air Manse) I'm going to have to veto this before StarJaunter has to.

- Medical/cybernetic/biothaumaturgy lore: More or less 'help research stuff for [helping to get Dinosaur Mounts up and running/[re]invent Tree Singers etc/figure out how to make Terrible God-Beasts/stay ahead of Terrible Diseases'. That last one sounds like "Seed Swallower work (focused on healing this time)". I imagine we might (might) eventually develop enough lore to make animal modification its own research AP given the Shaping Wood path, Autocthonic influences, what we're doing with the various beasts in our stables now and the advent of the Cracking Bone path, but currently "get more medical heroes" seems to be the most reasonable way to go about getting more medically-applicable AP right now.

- Soul lore: Given that the Dragon Kings have a greater sense of soul lore in general than is common in the Warhammer 40k setting and how many problems are linked to souls (the Necrons' lack of, the Tau's diminished ones, the vulnerability of Eldars', the instability of humans'....) I can see a few projects that could benefit from soul lore in general. This one is the +research AP I see on the 'not allowed' list most likely to jump to 'allowed'...after we get more experience with 40k souls, discover an Abyssal manse, complete our own soul examination project or otherwise progress down various quests. (Just imagine a 'create synthetic Necron souls' project and the amount of discussion that would stir up).

Incidentally, the Soul-Capturing Seeds of Renewal seem like the sort of thing we want to get made sooner rather than later, both as a 'Dark Eldar facing consequences' generator and Craftworld Eldar having a Plan B in case something unfortunate happens to their soulstones; even if these Seeds of Renewal aren't able to extract souls to add to the World Spirit/Circuits just 'not having my soul eaten by daemons and strengthening the ultimate foe of our species' might have some appeal. Given the lengths they go to to gather actual soulstones (ie 'visiting Hell and revving your motorcycle engines until Satan comes out to play') having something they could just trade for likely looks appealing.

Bear Templar said:
My understanding is the Ondar Shambol equivalents basically strengthens the god and allows more powerful rituals associated with them at the location... Which is why I assume there is some debate as to which is a better fit (I'm thinking Isha here).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There are quests to return various divinities to the Eldar, with suitably epic requirements ('enact a galaxy-sweeping prophecy' or 'murder billions of sentients, then move on to stage 2'). The Ondar Shambol tier temple lowers the effective DC of various stages of the quests and likely will enable related projects once the god is added to the pantheon. Imagine being able to do a ritual to Korounus to mark any mortal or near-mortal and thenceforth never lose their scent however they run or hide. Would make kill-missions easier, and slippery characters like Fabious Bile or Trayzen the Infinite would be faced with 'and now they know where I am at all times'.

Bear Templar said:
I'm now just thinking of what temple ships dedicated to each god would be like
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think we got a peek at Isha's templeship, and I don't see why a Vaul templeship would be much different from a Great Maker's ship. Khaine could be either a troop transport akin to Leeyata's or just about any sort of warship. Cegorath I could see as some sort of dance + spy ship, but I struggle on how to make that useful. Hoeth an exploration ship akin to an Abraxus templeship, though with a different sort of sorcery. Moreg-Hai is probably an observatory ship.

Bear Templar said:
Does the Mark IV Heavy Sonic Cannon basically count as the temple for the Harmonic Resonance Class Templeship? Since the ship itself doesn't have a temple listed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The temple is there, but also counts as one of the three components necessary for the gun. That's part of why it's an artillery ship; they built the ship around the gun.

F0lkL0re said:
I was thinking of doing a 25 year divination for the [night] Drive project.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Unless you think we want to spy on people other than the Orks during that time I'd consider mothballing.

F0lkL0re said:
When I said geomantic power I was referring to the relays rather then basic manses and as for the need for more that is why I put one in my plan with the aim being to produce at least one per turn until we have enough for both our current and a few future ships.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'd prefer to see if we can get administrative discounts for doing more than one at once.

Tangentially related, what was that 'Eldar core recharge manse' project intended to pair with the Cores for Eldar project? I'm thinking we may want to do the cores project once Slicktongues' bureaucratic advantage becomes free again (so in ~3 turns I reckon).
 
Slamu said:
Unless you think we want to spy on people other than the Orks during that time I'd consider mothballing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well we do have those spy rings in the Imperium to think about.

Slamu said:
I'd prefer to see if we can get administrative discounts for doing more than one at once.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A single relay is a three success at dc 20 project we can easily manage 1-3 a turn while working on other bigger/more difficult projects.

Slamu said:
Tangentially related, what was that 'Eldar core recharge manse' project intended to pair with the Cores for Eldar project? I'm thinking we may want to do the cores project once Slicktongues' bureaucratic advantage becomes free again (so in ~3 turns I reckon).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I assumed that the plan was to use them for standardisation as soon as we finished the flotilla as the Anklok are starting to poke us about giving them front line gear.
 
Bear Templar said:
Does the Mark IV Heavy Sonic Cannon basically count as the temple for the Harmonic Resonance Class Templeship? Since the ship itself doesn't have a temple listed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There is a technically seperate temple but the cannon cannot actually be mounted on a templeship wtihout the correct temple so this specific temple probably makes it hard to tell that the cannon is not built in.

They are technically distinct components. The temple side is blurry as Final Judgement emphasized mass production and drawing on his Master the Great maker creating a blended temple which effectively fuzzed the distinctions of the temple.

IE a Harmonious Resonance does not count as a temple to Final hymn of judgement or Autochthon except is so far sa enabling the use of the Heavy Sonic Cannon and ridiculous ease of mass production.

So in this case it was not listed on purpose.

Slamu said:
While I can see some utility with Eldar tech (as it seems to be the most directly analogous to our own) and we could probably take advantage of Tau or Imperial tech if handed to us, I doubt we'll make extensive use of their high-end tech on a regular basis.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The costs of reverse engineering projects are already extremely low to reflect the favor of a goddess of alien lore being among your most favored.

Thus Anklok AP effectively ARE reverse engineering AP.

Slamu said:
- Martial Arts research: I actually considered this, but it looks like Study of the Perfected Lotus is the closest we're likely to get with the -10 DC to develop a new martial arts style. This is the closest I see to be actually viable on this list ("this is a big library on martial arts esoterica that makes it more sophisticated than just throwing hands") but just like how we're getting "easier to train spies for a species" instead of 'training tool to build more spies' we're getting "easier to research Martial Arts" instead of "added AP for the purpose of inventing new MA"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Between the Dojo being able to apply to most Martial arts invention and Mosok AP applying there will not be a "Free" AP for martial arts research.

Slamu said:
- Military history/lore/research: Something like this exists in the form of Leeyata's Temples acting as museums of past Dragon King accomplishments, but for all that I had the notion of 'AP for developing, refining and observing military doctrines and strategies' it felt a bit too...clunky for reasonable consideration. Unlike most of these entries I didn't see us making regular use of it, but rather intermittent use (when we encounter a race with substantially new methods of fighting or strategic considerations). Probably best kept to being mentioned as being a thing ("the libraries of Pterok and Anklok elders were scoured to see if anything like this was seen before" etc) but stick with the current method of 'just throw regular AP at it', even if I'm tempted by things like 'learn how to better board Ork ships' and 'develop Wyld fighting tactics'.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

To the degree this stuff comes up at all Anklok AP count as it. There are lores you could have taken that would have improved your ability to develop this which were not taken.

This is less impossible to improve but so unlikely to improve that I would call it improbable.

Slamu said:
- Vegetative lore: This one I'm thinking we're unlikely to get because it just feels so commonplace in Dragon King culture and society;
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Slamu said:
- Medical/cybernetic/biothaumaturgy lore: More or less 'help research stuff for [helping to get Dinosaur Mounts up and running/[re]invent Tree Singers etc/figure out how to make Terrible God-Beasts/stay ahead of Terrible Diseases'. That last one sounds like "Seed Swallower work (focused on healing this time)".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

For both of these all Raptok AP would count as being associated and these projects are vastly easier for you than they would be for some other people. For example you are half heartedly working on navigators and will likely finish in only a century or two of effort.

For dark age of technology humans this development involved massive amounts more effort and took from almost a millennia to almost two millennia depending on where you draw the lines.

Slamu said:
This one is the +research AP I see on the 'not allowed' list most likely to jump to 'allowed'...after we get more experience with 40k souls, discover an Abyssal manse, complete our own soul examination project or otherwise progress down various quests. (Just imagine a 'create synthetic Necron souls' project and the amount of discussion that would stir up).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This is a correct summation, there was a lore for souls you did not take so effectively you need to gather the knowledge associated with gaining a lore the hard way.

Slamu said:
even if these Seeds of Renewal aren't able to extract souls to add to the World Spirit/Circuits just
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The vague intention is to eventually exand Lanka with more trees and add a world fruit that is meant for holding Eldar souls, either a hell for Drukhari or a normal afterlife for allied Exodite and Craftworlders.

Slamu said:
The Ondar Shambol tier temple lowers the effective DC of various stages of the quests and likely will enable related projects once the god is added to the pantheon.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Since you did not call on it I would mention the implication is that the highest tier of temple is in fact a whole temple CITY around the central site all focused on the god or subject of worship in question. Tons of priests and other paraphenalia are associated with the site and thus it can support areas for subservient sects, sub-races, spirits, etc. Like Nysela and Little Beam sub shrines in Ondar Shambol and the ability to interface with Lumina through it.

The other temple options effectively are using the space and geomantic power to facility some other feature instead of building a whole prayer city.

Note: Creating a city does NOT create uses for the city from that god. You can hope and might miss out if you don't build a city but don't expect wonderous revelations every time you build a city, for a lot of these eldar gods the other options are objectively better than the city options and the only reason to build the city is the DC bonus on the rituals to incarnate anew the divinity in question.
 
StarJaunter said:
Note: Creating a city does NOT create uses for the city from that god. You can hope and might miss out if you don't build a city but don't expect wonderous revelations every time you build a city, for a lot of these eldar gods the other options are objectively better than the city options and the only reason to build the city is the DC bonus on the rituals to incarnate anew the divinity in question.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And, of course, it'll be difficult to ask if the Most Holy would be otherwise useful before the gods are incarnated. Though that might fit into Astrology's wheelhouse of "getting information about things you're already aware of" if we wanted to expend some Questions there.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top