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Dragon Kings in the 41st Millennia (Exalted/40K Empire)

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Erinys said:
That wasn't what I meant. He is going to take 3 Talismans of Vaul. The Aeldari are going to try to take one away from him. I want to take one away from him, too. I know we can't take away all 3. It has been suggested, more than once I think, we can take away one. I want to do so before he uses a pair of them to blow up a planet (probably Fularis at Bhein Morr).
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Fair. I think we need that for the Vaul Rez quest and it'd be neat to have anyway.
Erinys said:
We have to redo the anti-divination on the Hand of Darkness at 50.1, or else research and complete the Sorcerous Working to put it outside of fate. We can't delay it, it has to be done at 50.1. We don't have a choice about this. We can't just skip ahead to turn 51. (I have no idea anymore how long a season, year, or turn is relative to "49" or "50" or "141". The terms used are too confusing and I can't keep track any more. When making plans, please state which parts of which turns it will use up.)
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My ten season plan will get us to 49.3, which should be in time to help with the blockade, and well before we have to reup the obfuscation.
Erinys said:
We should try to help Stravinar instead of doing nothing whatsoever, knowing 90 million humans will die on our watch.
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Even aside from my plan dropping us back into tactical mode before then, convoy guard duty and leaking chaos intel, combined with the knock on effects of what we've already saved should help there.
 
Thank you for clarifying. Unfortunately, if our divinations are still valid, Stravinar III will starve to death on turn/year/season/cycle/Biblical period of time 49.2. After that I do think it's a good idea to drop back to 1-year or multi-year turns until 50.1 (so, covering 49.3-49.5). In that time we can try to do all the stuff you suggested, or try to take a Talisman of Vaul or learn how before Fularis is blown up*, or recharge Relics and Arks, or [insert suggestion].

*We can already warn the Imperium that Bhein Morr will be targeted soon. But they probably can't stop a Blackstone Fortress with their military.

I know people have suggested, based on 40K lore, that there may be a 7th Talisman of Vaul somewhere. I don't think the QM is malicious enough to give us a fake Lesson of Wonder and Loss or a 100% impossible Quest of Divine Reincarnation. So yeah, it must be possible to take a Talisman somehow. Hopefully here.

Edit: Do I have this right? 49 is a 5-year turn. 49.1 is a year, 141M41. 49.1 Air was the battle we just fought, 1/5 of 49.1. We have at least 4 seasons before we have to intervene in the Stravinar blockade, although divination didn't tell us when the blockade starts.

At some point the previous divinations I linked to will probably become useless. My guess is the attack on Fularis will still happen, based on our infiltrator intel. I dunno if Abaddon cares enough to blockade a different Hive World just to be a sadistic a**.
 
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Something to keep in mind if you want to steal a fortress, they currently belong to the empire of mankind. If you capture one in front of them and try to keep it… well good luck ever convincing them you are not shitty xeno filth.

If you want one without hate from the empire you need to take it from abaddon without help and as little human knowledge of it as possible.

Which will have been made trickier by revealing yourself at savaven.

Not impossible but I believe you will allow yourselves to be too distracted by goings on to pull it off.
Erinys said:
Question, how many smallcraft are in a full wing?
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I mean technically the numbers are irrelevant but 25 warbirds per wing, rocs are ten per wing, landing craft are even vaguer but for this assault landing wing 50ish? Chaos and imperials use roughly 20 craft per wing for fighters in my varient
The Froggy Ninja said:
how's that for a two year plan?
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Well the thing is awkward. We used a season remember? Thats why my example is 9 seasons. Have a plan that continues one season past a convenient budget point feels awkward. Rather be nine seasons and then due a two year turn. Then decide to continue or make a new plan.
Erinys said:
Unfortunately, if our divinations are still valid, Stravinar III will starve to death on turn/year/season/cycle/Biblical period of time
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So you have already changed enough this is not a given, even the first raid was messed up. So this may be a different world or something else could happen now. Besides no food supplies or relief packages have been made yet.

So turns are five years at least after turn 20. Mini turns can represent fractions of a year when time crunch events are happening, this is intended to be less efficient and fractions will be rounded away but it gives more responsiveness in a war… and massively slows down the quest

I often will insert the current galactic year in mentions to help me keep track of the timeline mostly for the sake or future me not current me.

Per exalted dragon kings divide the year into five seasons. A season is roughly enough time to travel somewhere in a sector visit the planet or fight a battle and return or move on. Its meant to drill down in and let you have fine control of the war or expedition that is going on. It will be a while before I do even a fraction as big an expedition in the future as this is going slower then I hoped which I know is mostly my fault.
The Froggy Ninja said:
how much will the Feast escort, not getting slaughtered in this last fight and the pre-warning help with the blockade, assuming we haven't butterflied it away?
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Um? In what sense? Are you asking how many cargoships your militarized colony ship can protect while passing through a blockade? Negative one. Even moving itself is a bad idea.

You generally need to outrun a blockade which the 'might as well be an asteroid' cannot do, defeat it at least locally which depends on its force levels so maybe, or distract it which it can probably do but it is not so tough and will take damage.

Herald thanks to charms IS disturbingly fast, tough, dangerous and distracting. But even then a number of safe cargoships will depend on a situation that has not materialized yet.

If you had nsi airships for cargo movement and brought them then the feast could bypass any blockade but you don't have them and based on last fight probably wouldn't have brought them.
 
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StarJaunter said:
Well the thing is awkward. We used a season remember? Thats why my example is 9 seasons. Have a plan that continues one season past a convenient budget point feels awkward. Rather be nine seasons and then due a two year turn. Then decide to continue or make a new plan.
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Fair. Set back to nine seasons, one on recharge, five on Blackstones, three on other potential targets and diplo.
StarJaunter said:
If you want one without hate from the empire you need to take it from abaddon without help and as little human knowledge of it as possible.
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Hmm… how difficult would it be to design a summoning beacon? Like, a device that's designed to be hard to find and mark the target for a sorcerous working to summon it into local warp space. Basically a stealth based action to gain the option to fight it later, while only having to deal with the crew and whatever daemons/ships were nearby rather than having to venture into the Eye and back if we want to take it after the Crusade.
 
I mean a beacon is possible and an object you can summon is possible but a something you can place on another object... especially once the size, complexity, and metaphysical weight as a Talisman of Vaul would require a massive project to the structure to incorporate it, not a stealth mission.

I could imagine you doing something that would let your Loom of Fate cover it even if it would normally be out of range... but you don't have that yet.

Plus you have little experience with the Eye of Terror and I am unwilling to just promise you stuff will work fine without experience.

Best I can compromise with this idea is placing something "easy" to target with astrology and hiding it on the Fortress to make it easy to find with Astrology. Of course if they figure it out they can move the token and use it to trap you... assuming they can come up with a trap that works against someone expecting to find a daemon run Talisman of Vaul.
 
Have a free ship design, was only going to give it right before the mini-turn but since there is a chance we might do a skip I figured no harm in releasing now. It probably won't matter but the design is only technically finished right before Mini-turn 49.2 starts.

Golden Scale class Rapid Response Chariot

Arising in the aftermath of Golden Scales glorious sacrifice due to several incidents wherein we were called upon to deploy a small elite strike force in response to agents of the Despoiler or other forces seeking to maximize the chaos. Golden Scales memoires left notes about his plans for a small fast strike vessel that could deploy elite warriors to needed target areas as well as having the precision sensors to find anomalies, understand them as well as could be understood and if needed target them with orbital bombardment.

This has led a group of pro-Golden Scale enthusiasts to continue his work and fully blueprint out a ship design which has come to be known as the Golden Scale Strike Chariot. The hull is motonic, both to lower cost to build but also lower the cost to mothball and un-mothball the craft between conflicts. The central Motonic core is a giant Adamant crystal which incorporates the other Adamant elements of an advanced scanning array which works with the central adamant spoke and utilizes the projected essence hull as a focusing array for intensive scans.

Knowing about emergencies and anomalies that might need a response is key. Thus, effort has been made to tie in communication systems to its vast array of scopes and other sensors. Speed is key for the ship to respond to emergencies called in or detected by its sensor system.

Upon response the sensors and landing teams can provide insight and if necessary, waves of assault craft or precision bombardment from the Chariot's weapons can be called in.

It should be noted that the call for precision in weaponry, while it tends to limit collateral damage, also limits the total amount of destruction it can produce. Think along the lines, "Knock Knock!" instead of "it's the only way to be sure." IE almost always an assault will also be required, either taking out a shield generator so the macguffin can be targeted with ortillery or using ortillery to clear a gate, or bunker entrance so the assault team can sweep in.

All of this means that a Golden Scale will be poorly equipped to engage in void warfare. Its weapons precise but limited damage and slow firing (mostly due to the time spent aiming) reduces its impact in a void engagement. Its Response teams usually are not especially well equipped for boarding actions. Instead, its meant to respond to calls for its specific kind of aide to Realm friendly or at least Realm occupied areas. It can and should use its sensors to notice unexpected resistance and its speed to run if need.

That being said the sensors, speed, precision low damage weapons, and the combined barracks, cargospace, and hanger of its Response Team system makes it a superb commerce raider. A thought that interests Mosok if not the fanbase of Golden Scale.

Cost: 75
Speed: 7
Maneuver: 7 (+2 direct fire or bombardment)
Equipment: Precision Bombardment Weapon, Shields, Wyld Chancel, Advanced Sensors, Response Team System (RTS).
Upkeep: 1
Power: +14
Logistics: +6
Hull Level: -0//-2/-2/-3/-4/Crippled
Notes: Basic Weapon attack costs 8 momentum due to bombardment emphasis. Can deploy a full legion equivalent in one go, usually intended to be something like the Ruby Arrows or equivalent. It can move less numbers of more elite troops of course. Can move one "special" unit as long as its not special due to size like Warstriders or Omnipotent Engines (ie like Astartes Company kind of special). Meant to be shutdown between wars and thus can be mothballed for 4 AP and restored to operational status for 6 AP (both of which can be halved with shipyards). Just to confirm this is unusually low, even for a Motonic hull. Unusually clear communications compared to standard DK ship so it can be called to respond to an emergency.

Build Cost in shipyard: 30 AP. Can reduce total by 4 AP for an exotic stockpile up to twice. Atelier Manses will cover 3 AP each up to twice. Factory Cathedrals will cover 3 AP each up to four times.

Build Cost no Shipyard: 59 AP. Can reduce total by 8 AP for an exotic stockpile up to twice. Atelier Manses will cover 6 AP each up to twice. Factory Cathedrals will cover 7 AP each up to four times.

Build Cost in shipyard with Slicktongue organization: 25 AP. Can reduce total by 4 AP for an exotic stockpile up to twice. An Atelier Manse will cover 3 AP once. Factory Cathedrals will cover 3 AP each up to four times.
 
StarJaunter said:
Battlefleet Gothic: No change (Or to be more accurate feelings are mixed between relief and calling you kill-stealers so the net effect is no change) = 5.8
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Do not despair, brave warriors! This war shall last years, and many more of the Enemy will come. You shall have many chances to earn bloody glory and honor for your Man-God!

StarJaunter said:
Something to keep in mind if you want to steal a fortress, they currently belong to the empire of mankind. If you capture one in front of them and try to keep it… well good luck ever convincing them you are not shitty xeno filth.

If you want one without hate from the empire you need to take it from abaddon without help and as little human knowledge of it as possible.

Which will have been made trickier by revealing yourself at savaven.

Not impossible but I believe you will allow yourselves to be too distracted by goings on to pull it off.
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Yes, I was hoping to steal a Talisman out of sight of Imperials, after Abaddon steals it, before he uses it to attack Fularis/Bhein Morr. Could I use my QM Question to find out what we need to do to pull this off?

StarJaunter said:
So you have already changed enough this is not a given, even the first raid was messed up. So this may be a different world or something else could happen now. Besides no food supplies or relief packages have been made yet.
...
Herald thanks to charms IS disturbingly fast, tough, dangerous and distracting. But even then a number of safe cargoships will depend on a situation that has not materialized yet.
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And if we put the Luminous Herald of Dawn over Stravinar, or even plan to be there, he might blockade a different system instead. So maybe our best bet is to warn the Imperium high-ups (the ones least likely to be spies) that A hive world is likely to be blockaded next year and starve to death, and we might be able to help if they call on us after the blockade starts (we can blow away a lot of blockading ships with our remaining Ark of Wrath), but most likely we can't get there in time to help due to Abaddon's divinations.
 
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So, just in case thats the reason its quiet you can proceed with voting. Hoping to have a solid selection by the weekend because my daughter is hosting a sleep over and I want a distraction but I will let it slide if you need more discussion.

Erinys said:
Could I use my QM Question to find out what we need to do to pull this off?
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Um well your guys know in character so for free I will tell you:
-As time passes he will gain greater mastery of the Fortress, attacking early means he cannot use its powers against you.
-He knows this and has a pretty solid guard on and around the thing which will be allowed to decrease when he masters it.

So if you show up very soon you will need to fight a fleet, land troops on the station fight off hordes of daemons, CSM, and worse Abaddon himself. If you reach the point he cannot kill you all himself he will use an ancient xeno relic to GTFO with the Eye of Night (and what he thinks is the hand of darkness).

If you show up later their will be less ships and less stuff on board the fortress but the fortress will fight you itself... and its probably more dangerous than the fleet.

If you wait until he has more then one there is a chance he is not on the one you are attacking. If you wait you can maybe use your Hand of Darkness to shut down the stations just as he intended in the OC. Of course than HE knows you have it so...

If you want to spend a question on it I need more context.
If you ask the best time to go, by what standard are we judging best? "Best" is way way too vague for divination. Thats why using divination to boost actions just gives a DC reduction.

Keep in mind waiting 4 seasons and using the next mini-turn to track him with Divination is NOT a fast response, its waiting most of the year while he masters the fortress and further masters evocations of the Eye of Night (and maybe fully gives up on the Hand of Darkness (which is at least in part due to the need to step of Divinations keeping him busy)).

Using a Question to track him does not provide improvements to your situation that you can bring to bear against him, which if you are not ready to go IMMEDIATELY after asking means he will probably move due to his own divinations.

Erinys said:
So maybe our best bet is to warn the Imperium high-ups (the ones least likely to be spies) that A hive world is likely to be blockaded next year and starve to death, and we might be able to help if they call on us after the blockade starts (we can blow away a lot of blockading ships with our remaining Ark of Wrath), but most likely we can't get there in time to help due to Abaddon's divinations.
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You want to warn the leadership of a space sector that their dire enemy that serves the closest thing to Evil that exists and which they have fought for ten thousand ish years may possibly attack a world that is vulnerable and subject them to horrific cruelties?

Um... they know.

You know they know.

You can offer to aide in relieving a blockade without the dubious warning. Being able to response immediately if such a request comes in will require forces available so either you have ships sitting and waiting not doing anything as reserves, I may offer a choice between two options and make the consequences of the choice matter, or you may depending on what you had your ships doing, not have a choice at all and simply are very late to their call for aide.

If you offer to respond to a call for aid and fail you will get relation penalties; in exchange for getting a better relation bonus if they call and you succeed in providing aid.
 
I am confused why, if they knew that Hive Worlds were going to be blockated in the canon timeline, they failed to save Stravinar. Does their gigantic navy just have a teeny tiny # of ships in this sector?

After he has more than 1 Fortress, would it be possible to use Divination to identify the one he isn't on, and take it from him with 1 (or more) Ark(s) of Wrath and spamming Bar the Gate and NOT use the Hand of Darkness (which isn't here anyway)?

Would someone please help me.. come up with a good plan to steal a Blackstone Fortress from Chaos before they blow up a planet with a pair of them? Before we start voting, so we can plan the next couple of seasons around it?
 
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Erinys said:
I am confused why, if they knew that Hive Worlds were going to be blockated in the canon timeline, they failed to save Stravinar. Does their gigantic navy just have a teeny tiny # of ships in this sector?
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???
There are 6 or 7 hive worlds. 6 Blackstone fortresses (which are the known target), Port Maw itself and the two (I think) forge worlds.

All of which ignore the dozen plus worlds like Savaven with billions of people but not enough to count as hives. Or the agi world and mining worlds which provide whats needed TO feed those Hive worlds.

If you divide yourselves enough to protect it all than there is no way you can prevent the Chaos forces from out numbering you locally. And if you do group up to protect the most vulnerable targets you leave EVERY OTHER WORLD open to raids, attacks, and even conquering.

TLDR: Chaos WANTS you to defend a Hive world (or something) because it means they can go conquer some other place with less effort and use it as a base.

Erinys said:
After he has more than 1 Fortress, would it be possible to use Divination to identify the one he isn't on, and take it from him with 1 (or more) Ark(s) of Wrath and spamming Bar the Gate and NOT use the Hand of Darkness (which isn't here anyway)?
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You can identify where HE is which makes finding the one he is on pretty easy. If you know where both Talismans are you can process of elimination that but good luck figuring out where both are.
 
StarJaunter said:
How will they be tracked?
How will you hide the beacons so Abaddon does not notice
How will you place the Beacons when they are under imperial control?
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They'll be artifacts designed to be good astrology targets but otherwise very specialized for avoiding detection, either mundane or magical.
Unknown. Possibly stealthily, possibly just by successfully arguing that such a tracking device would only be useful if the fortress was moved, which would mean enemy action. I'm more curious about the equipment limitations.
 
This is sounding like every option is nearly impossible. I'm going to need to spend my QM Question on this. Would someone please help me write a question that will help us learn the most viable way to do this that will actually work?
 
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The Froggy Ninja said:
They'll be artifacts designed to be good astrology targets but otherwise very specialized for avoiding detection, either mundane or magical.
Unknown. Possibly stealthily, possibly just by successfully arguing that such a tracking device would only be useful if the fortress was moved, which would mean enemy action. I'm more curious about the equipment limitations.
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I will say 1 AP with access to a factory cathedral will get you a vague 'enough' for your gothic war needs. Doesn't require dedicating a factory cathedral but you need to do it with access to one and since they are all on Tokat...

Erinys said:
This is sounding like every option is nearly impossible. I'm going to need to spend my QM Question on this. Would someone please help me write a question that will help us learn the most viable way to do this that will actually work?
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I really do not want to answer any QM question that generates any variant of "HEY QM can you play this turn for us and make what you think are optimal choices?"

You could spend a season or two charging your relics and arcs and than ask where is abaddon with the intention of the next plan being jump him with recharged relics and arks. Might not work great but its a plan. Abaddon will certainly try to make it a trap or create a scenario in which you are super tempted to go do something else while he moves his boat but if you ignore the consequences and risk you could pull it off.

Thats my issue. I can't read your mind and gain an exact since of the value you place on things. So even if I was willing to give you the perfect course of action I cannot judge what YOU will agree was the perfect course of action in hindsight. And you almost certainly will judge me in hindsight if you feel your question (and subsequent action/turn) was wasted.


Come on though, I mean you have taken out Planet Killer, 1 Battleship, 8 cruisers, and 5 escorts with no damage to your ships. You expended a lot of one shot resources to do it but nothing irreplaceable except a really old man who wanted to go out with bang anyway.

And while you have shown your hand in doing so (if you had prioritized capturing a talisman as the number one goal of the gothic war you could have let Savaven die for instance) you do still have tricks up your sleeve.

For instance you could use the next mini turn/omake to ready a bunch of lumina tokens, one of the big ones could oppose abbadon enough to force a GTFO. You still haven't deployed Little Beam, Nysela, or Final Hymn of Judgement who can act as hero units to oppose Abbadon, maybe not enough to force him to flee on their own but weaken him enough that the army behind them is scary enough to run from.

Shit just what you have could clear the fleet protecting the fortress same way as you did planet killer and use a Creature of Darkness only version inside the fortress to make taking it easier. And you can find abaddon with divination in a miniturn/omake without a QM question if you are ok with fighting all that... which I hope I showed you could.

In terms of fighting a fully operational talisman the Aegis is noted to scale up to protect the Herald from one shot for the "main gun" after which you can get in close and open a path for landers. And thats leaving aside that given a few years of mini turns researching the Hand of Darkness and using it is AN option if not a safe option. Or build up some other special forces unit to do the job. With the bonus that you might not have to face abaddon or a whole fleet to stop him.


Is it hard and risky to steal from a millennia old warlord with centuries of planning into this conflict when you brought ONE warship and one jury rigged Military Transport? Yes.

And showing your hand saving Savaven definitely made it harder. And the more of your style and tricks you show stopping OTHER problems the harder it gets. And I will definitely try to tempt you into trying to stop those other problems, just as I tempted you into saving Savaven instead of focusing on Abaddon.

But lets be honest, you could sit at your base and wait until the Eldar come and no one can question that you weren't damned helpful for a filthy xeno. And that probably would have been true the moment you stole the Hand of Darkness. Cause thats the one that let him destroy all the stations he couldn't steal when he gave up.
 
StarJaunter said:
I will say 1 AP with access to a factory cathedral will get you a vague 'enough' for your gothic war needs. Doesn't require dedicating a factory cathedral but you need to do it with access to one and since they are all on Tokat...
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So since there are six left and we won't be able to spend Tokat AP for another four seasons, we should theoretically be able to produce trackers for five of the six inactive fortresses and pass them through the Gate, but that'd be a roll of the (presumably weighted) dice on him not grabbing the non-tracked one.
EDIT: Though I suppose we could have the Mantis plant the tracker on the one we already profiled.
 
Well I've been expecting that there is only ONE possible way to steal a Talisman, the same way there is only ONE possible way to revive each Elven god, and that without knowing the specific required steps, we'd be 98% likely to fail. It's a very complicated situation.
 
Erinys said:
Well I've been expecting that there is only ONE possible way to steal a Talisman, the same way there is only ONE possible way to revive each Elven god, and that without knowing the specific required steps, we'd be 98% likely to fail. It's a very complicated situation.
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thats not really true. The Eldar gods created a route/ritual/working that would enable their return.

Abaddon did not create a method to steal from him that you can exploit. You have to TAKE it from him against his will and the will of everything he can garner to his side.

If you present a plan I will usually analyze it for you but I feel if there is a perfect plan with no down side than I did things wrong as a QM.
 
The Froggy Ninja said:
How difficult would it be to astrologically track a Fortress we've constructed a profile on?
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If it just happened to move not too much problem. But Abaddon makes a LOT of changes, including stripping out pretty much all the normal Imperial junk from the fortress and activating it which it won't be when you profile it most likely.


Plus due to r̴̩̻̻̗͔͉͈̰͚̳̦̹̰͎̦̞̤̙̂̾̇̎͝e̴̳̺͚͐̍̆͌̃̄̚̚ą̸̛̦͈̪͕̝̩̬̤̫̗̬̟̮̗̬̰̾̈́̑̀́̊͝s̷̛̠̼̍̓̂̅̍͑̓̿̋ợ̴̡̢̨̛̛̹̲̭̱͇̥̼̮̯͇͍͔̓͐̓̾̈̄̔̄̾̕̚͝n̶̨̯̱̻̬͕̭̹̘̞̠̺̿̑̃̈́͂̋̀͊̐̽̂͘̕͝͝s̴̖͙̯̟̪̯̣̏̑̈͋͒̓̉̈́͑͌̅̽̕ the fortress itself is at least somewhat resistant to such effects. So honestly not much chance, unless you got a profile that includes information you don't have, like origins and creators and such. And I don't mean what we know I mean intricate details beyond anything that have been created for the 40k universe would be needed.

You are profiling locations to predict where he will attack next, not to help track down something stolen from the location.
 
StarJaunter said:
If it just happened to move not too much problem. But Abaddon makes a LOT of changes, including stripping out pretty much all the normal Imperial junk from the fortress and activating it which it won't be when you profile it most likely.


Plus due to r̴̩̻̻̗͔͉͈̰͚̳̦̹̰͎̦̞̤̙̂̾̇̎͝e̴̳̺͚͐̍̆͌̃̄̚̚ą̸̛̦͈̪͕̝̩̬̤̫̗̬̟̮̗̬̰̾̈́̑̀́̊͝s̷̛̠̼̍̓̂̅̍͑̓̿̋ợ̴̡̢̨̛̛̹̲̭̱͇̥̼̮̯͇͍͔̓͐̓̾̈̄̔̄̾̕̚͝n̶̨̯̱̻̬͕̭̹̘̞̠̺̿̑̃̈́͂̋̀͊̐̽̂͘̕͝͝s̴̖͙̯̟̪̯̣̏̑̈͋͒̓̉̈́͑͌̅̽̕ the fortress itself is at least somewhat resistant to such effects. So honestly not much chance, unless you got a profile that includes information you don't have, like origins and creators and such. And I don't mean what we know I mean intricate details beyond anything that have been created for the 40k universe would be needed.

You are profiling locations to predict where he will attack next, not to help track down something stolen from the location.
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Could we construct a profile, and then use astrology to read backwards through time to get information like that?
 
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