Dragon Kings in the 41st Millennia (Exalted/40K Empire)

[Erinys]

I'm confused. Your post here about gods appears to say a Relic needs just 1 AP, total, in one step - while an Ark needs 4 AP, total, 3 to build it and 1 to charge it. That's why my Plan only puts 3 AP into 3 relics, I thought that was enough. But you're saying that actually a Relic needs 2 AP total per Relic?

If they need 2 AP each then yes, I put my Omake into charging/completing the three listed in the my Plan. Or whichever 3 relics get partly built this time, or however it works.

 

[StarJaunter]

[ ] Empower Relic: Relics carry concentrated Divine blessings for personal scale effects but when used need to be re-empowered. When used on Templeships some relics can be ritually boosted to enhance the whole ship. Empowering one costs one success, empowering 5 costs two success, empowering 25 is three success and 125 is four success, etc. Raptok Craftsman are needed to craft these relics. AP Needed 1. DC: 15. Success Needed: Varies. Reward: Empowers Personal Solar Relics. See Tokati Divinity tab for rules on making and types of relics.


This has been in basically every turn prep page in the piety section since relics released. So charging three would be 2 AP. So you can use your Omake to create all three and the budget can use 2 AP at 15 DC to charge them.

 

[Voidseer]

Okay @Erinys it looks like you should use your Omaka to build the three relics and then use one AP to charge them all thus freeing up two AP for use elsewhere.

//Edit: And Ninja'd by QM.

 

[Slamu]

Plus some are side effects. Like if you do the dead Tau trade deal part of it will be making the tau ghosts biomotonic replicants to possess and spend some time interacting in the living world for.

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Oh, there's an idea. That could help our population problems a bit, even if I'm not sure how well mixed Tau/Dragon King populations would work. Anyone want to try it on, say, Khyral?

On the topic of the Tau;
-can we get an estimate on their size and growth based off of numbers of Tau feeding into their afterlife?
-what sort of project would be needed to socialize re-sleeved Tau souls to Dragon King society? Are we talking 'they are adults with memories intact, just give them the tools they need and they'll get to work' or are we looking at a pair of Raptok caregivers asking why the baby Tau isn't eating the vole, is it because the infant lacks talons and killer instincts?
-How difficult would it be to get actionable intelligence about Tau holdings, including a place to show up and say 'so we heard about this Greater Good thing'?
-seriously why isn't the toddler eating the vole, it's perfectly safe. With hatchlings it's usually a greater challenge to keep them from putting things in their mouths.
-Can we use Slicktongue AP to help support talking to the dead Tau?

It would banish Daemons from the Materium back to the Wyld/Warp. If you used it on a full Daemon world or in the Wyld itself it wouldn't do anything.

Used in temple boosted mode it could clear a planet or battlefield of all basic Daemons with no side effects or contest, greater Daemons, low end Daemon Princes, or stuff like Daemon ships and Daemon engines would either resist and remain in lessened state or get to do one last move before being banished. Mostly they pick the latter. Really potent shit like favored Greater Daemons and Daemon Primarchs can roll to resist and even if they fail will usually leave behind a curse or tear a big hole in the universe as they go. Aiming this at a specific being instead of area effect shifts the scales so Greater Daemons are auto banished with no effect and Favored Greater Daemons are either lessened or forced to go with some lingering effect (or explosion)

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"We're not dealing with your bullshit right now, Lorgar! Go on now, git!"
-Dragon Kings, probably

I'm of two minds using this on Planet Killer. On the one hand, the place is chock full of daemons-as-crew, so just getting a partial effect should cripple the ship's performance. On the other hand, one of the great things about cracking open an Ark of Wrath Beyond Measure is that it's going to do a whole lot of Holy damage to daemons, which...well, if they're not there to take damage, you're kinda missing out, aren't you?

Would there be anything stopping them from just ripping open a new hole with their warp drive? And does Planetkiller count as a daemon ship?

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If Planet Killer doesn't I'm not sure what would.

Yes of course, three AP worth if its related to the Omake, like any relic or Ark crafting would be OK, So you can make three relics which need charged or have the project make the three relics and charge them. Or you could make an Ark... maybe we can get one that isn't a Holy Nuke?

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We don't have one that is a Holy Nuke. We have three! (Obviously this means we should make two more to round out the set, right?)

What works better to boost the crew performance of the Herald, an Arc of Incantation of the Invincible Army, or a relic of Perfection Beyond Imagining?

 

[StarJaunter]

-can we get an estimate on their size and growth based off of numbers of Tau feeding into their afterlife?

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vaguely. Billions. But you do not know what percentage are Greater good followers nor do you know there exact life cycle. You just haven't interacted enough or built up enough trust to answer these questions.

what sort of project would be needed to socialize re-sleeved Tau souls to Dragon King society?

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I mean the project would introduce Liaisons not productive populace, the production would be on the dead side. Sleeving enough to produce full AP would require creating and sleeving like a hundred million Tau. Just creating that many clone bodies is like (does some math) 2052 AP And thats assuming sleeving and training the Tau was absolutely free and instantaneous.

-How difficult would it be to get actionable intelligence about Tau holdings, including a place to show up and say 'so we heard about this Greater Good thing'?

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It would take time and interaction for them to trust you. Explicitly to trust that you are Part of the Greater Good. Which means they would need to see you do things like Tau would do them.

-Can we use Slicktongue AP to help support talking to the dead Tau?

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Sure

What works better to boost the crew performance of the Herald, an Arc of Incantation of the Invincible Army, or a relic of Perfection Beyond Imagining?

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The relic as the Ark is for Armies, Ie to boost all the allied armies on a planet when boosted. The relic will boost the Herald for one battle. I am not sure I want the invincible army to be used on fleets and even if I did in this case you don't have enough ships to justify the upcharge from the relic in my eyes.

 

[Erinys]

This has been in basically every turn prep page in the piety section since relics released. So charging three would be 2 AP. So you can use your Omake to create all three and the budget can use 2 AP at 15 DC to charge them.

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OK Then I basically need to write a whole new plan, but I don't feel like I have time because the vote is called soon. But everyone who voted for any of the previous plans that built relics (mine or others) basically voted for an invalid plan that can't be used.

This only frees up 1 general AP since 2 AP still go into the Relics, and the astrology was the auto astrology. I didn't put it into Geomantic Relays since it isn't enough to complete it in one this season. Instead I added a second Sunburst Portal Evocation since The Froggy Ninja's wishlist/plan calls for 7 of those, and we can use one to transport the relics and stockpiles into the Luminous Herald really, really fast in time for battle.


[X] Plan: Hide the Hand + Relics of Awesome 5.0
-[X] Anklok (2 AP)
--[X] Bribing spirits to do their job - 1 General AP
--[X] Empower 5 Relics - 2 AP
-[X] Mosok (2 AP)
--[X] Order of the Falling Blossom - Auto
--[X] Void Shipyard - 2 AP + 1 General AP + Skyship Support
-[X] Pterok (2 AP)
--[X] Astrology: "Who are the most auspicious dragons to build and sanctify the Relics?" - Auto, apply to DCs of building and infusing 5 Relics
--[X] Astrology: "When will the Planet Killer arrive over Savaven?" - 1 AP + Crystalweavers
--[X] Obscuring Fate (Hand of Darkness) - 1 AP + 1 General AP + Jadeite + Astrology auto
--[X] Standard Stockpile - x1 Atelier
--[X] Logistics Stockpile - x1 Atelier
--[X] Elemental Support - 1 General AP
--[x] Grace Stockpile (1x Free Success applied to Thaumaturgy projects)
-[X] Raptok (3 AP)
--[X] build Relic of [As the Morning Reveals] - Omake
--[X] build Relic of [Aegis of Unconquered Might] - Omake
--[X] build Relic of [Sunburst Portal Evocation] - Omake
--[X] build Relic of [Sunburst Portal Evocation] - 1 AP
--[X] build Relic of [Godspear of All-Searing Noon] - 1 AP
--[X] Geomantic Relay - 1 AP
-[X] Prepare to use fast ship, or Sunburst Portal Evocation, to send Relics, new stockpiles, Eucharists, Corpse-Eaters over to the Savaven system into the Luminous Herald of Dawn RUSH.

Edit: Plan updated

@Slamu I like your Tau ideas.

 

[Voidseer]

-[X] Raptok (3 AP)
--[X] build Relic of [As the Morning Reveals] - Omake
--[X] build Relic of [Aegis of Unconquered Might] - Omake
--[X] build Relic of [Sunburst Portal Evocation] - Omake
--[X] build Relic of [Sunburst Portal Evocation] - 1 General AP

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Uh those are Anklok actions not Raptok, shift them over to the Anklok section of your plan and it will be good. As for Supremacy of Elemental Advantage I already got an answer for you and that is up to half the AP.

You could call up some elementals for help though.

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Half of total successes can come from Elementals on this.

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[Erinys]

Thanks! For the Relics,

[ ] Empower Relic: Relics carry concentrated Divine blessings for personal scale effects but when used need to be re-empowered. When used on Templeships some relics can be ritually boosted to enhance the whole ship. Empowering one costs one success, empowering 5 costs two success, empowering 25 is three success and 125 is four success, etc. Raptok Craftsman are needed to craft these relics.

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It's empowering them that needs Anklok. I think.

 

[StarJaunter]

It's empowering them that needs Anklok. I think.

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correct

 

[Slamu]

I mean the project would introduce Liaisons not productive populace, the production would be on the dead side. Sleeving enough to produce full AP would require creating and sleeving like a hundred million Tau. Just creating that many clone bodies is like (does some math) 2052 AP And thats assuming sleeving and training the Tau was absolutely free and instantaneous.

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How about enough to recreate a small-to-medium Tau settlement? A Tauwn, if you would. The idea here would be to a) give the Mosok somewhere to practice their Tau-facing infiltration and the Raptok their Tau-facing diplomacy, b) do basic sociological research into 'how can DK and Tau coexist reasonably well on the same worlds without stepping on one anothers' claws?', and c) eventually grow into something that can be tapped for AP? Maybe prototype the 'resleeve from specific afterlife' system?

I feel like there's potential here, but we need to chew around it first.

It would take time and interaction for them to trust you. Explicitly to trust that you are Part of the Greater Good. Which means they would need to see you do things like Tau would do them.

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That'll be a fun conversation. "What do you mean don't sacrifice prisoners for the glory of the Unconquered Sun! Why else would I take prisoners?"

More seriously, I presume you're referring to end results, not direct methods right? "Charging into melee is barbaric and regressive, that's why we invest so much in our plasma rifles!"
"Yeah, but I didn't spend an entire year working on making Daiklaves and Smashfists to stay at range" etc

[X] Plan: Hide the Hand + Relics of Awesome 3.0
-[X] Anklok (2 AP)
--[X] Bribing spirits to do their job - 1 General AP
--[X] Empower 4 Relics 2 AP
-[X] Mosok (2 AP)
--[X] Void Shipyard - 2 AP + 1 General AP + Skyship Support
--[X] Order of the Falling Blossom - Auto
-[X] Pterok (2 AP)
--[X] Obscuring Fate (Hand of Darkness) - Auto
--[X] Astrology: "Who are the most auspicious dragons to build and sanctify the Relics?" - Auto, apply to DCs of building and infusing 3 Relics
--[X] Hand of Darkness Analysis - 2 AP
--[X] Standard Stockpile - x1 Atelier
--[X] Logistics Stockpile - x1 Atelier
--[x] Supremacy of Elemental Advantage - 1 General AP, assigned to Void Shipyard
-[X] Raptok (3 AP)
--[X] build Relic of [As the Morning Reveals] - Omake
--[X] build Relic of [Aegis of Unconquered Might] - Omake
--[X] build Relic of [Sunburst Portal Evocation] - Omake
--[X] build Relic of [Sunburst Portal Evocation] - 1 General AP
--[X] Wyld Aspect Manse: Hidden Tabernacle - 3 AP
---[X] put the Hand of Darkness at the center of it as soon as it's built.

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Might I suggest holding off on examining the Hand until we can actually dedicate solid time and effort towards doing so? I doubt 2 AP is going to do much good here, but we could use those same AP to do divinations for the Gothic War before coming back to take a peek at the Hand later. (Also, switching to basic elemental summoning would let you take an AP off the Hidden Tabernacle to put somewhere else. You're missing out on two guaranteed successes but you're still rolling 2 dice with 65% chance to do some good)

The relic as the Ark is for Armies, Ie to boost all the allied armies on a planet when boosted. The relic will boost the Herald for one battle. I am not sure I want the invincible army to be used on fleets and even if I did in this case you don't have enough ships to justify the upcharge from the relic in my eyes.

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Sounds like the Relic is the way to go then. Sure is a shame all those Imperials are worshipping some dead guy on a fancy chair, they don't know what they're missing out with this totally cool and not at all heretical Sun Worship.

@Slamu I like your Tau ideas.

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So long as you don't like them too much, or uncritically. More than a few of them are borne of 'why is it 3 AM? is it allowed to be that early when I don't have enough caffeine? ugh, I'll just post this and hope people think I'm clever or something.'

 

[Erinys]

Might I suggest holding off on examining the Hand until we can actually dedicate solid time and effort towards doing so? I doubt 2 AP is going to do much good here, but we could use those same AP to do divinations for the Gothic War before coming back to take a peek at the Hand later. (Also, switching to basic elemental summoning would let you take an AP off the Hidden Tabernacle to put somewhere else. You're missing out on two guaranteed successes but you're still rolling 2 dice with 65% chance to do some good)

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Uhhh... 😰

1. It was on everyone else's plan and looked like a good idea, so I copied it. And I'd like to settle "Can we safely use/hide this or do we need to destroy it ASAP?"
2. I thought Supremacy of Elemental Advantage would give 2 successes to the Void Shipyard and that was better than rolling 1 more die.
3. I clearly don't understand the system perfectly yet and my mistakes and rewrite have already cost 4 days.
4. I seriously don't understand the rules/how to do the math, would you please write up the Plan you are suggesting? (Plan: Hide the Hand + Relics of Awesome 4.0)
5. Can we use Abraxan Workings of Darkest Mysteries and Deepest Lore to put the Hand of Darkness outside of Fate, so it can't be subject to any divination ever again? (Later, not this season.)


6. Can the Tau teach us about solar panels? Surely most spacefaring civilizations don't still rely on fossil fuels, for Sun's sake!


7. Why are so many emoji in the smiley menu just empty squares?

 

[Slamu]

6. Can the Tau teach us about solar panels? Surely most spacefaring civilizations don't still rely on fossil fuels, for Sun's sake!

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I don't know that their solar panels would be the same as our solar panels, because they'd be emulating the photosynthesis of plants to generate electricity for a factory complex while we'd be artificially generating tokens from Solar demenses to sacrifice in rites of activation for an Atelier Manse. Basically, inspiration aside I expect the Venn diagram of our tech trees to be essentially two circles that barely touch with both sides scratching their heads going "Okay, I can see this works for you, but I can't for the sake of me figure out how."

Also, the Imperium uses fossil fuels and they're one of the primary actors. Chaos uses a mix of 'whatever the Imperium uses, but with more spikes' and 'stuff a deamon in it and feed it souls every so often', the AdMech uses fossil fuels for like 90% of their stuff but their really high end stuff is powered by...something, no one's quite sure because anyone who knew died off six thousand years ago but their interns know how to keep all the gauges from going in the red most of the time. Orks use the Power of Positive Thinking to power their equipment but burn fossil fuels because they like the sound and feel of it. The Tyrannids eat fossil fuels like they do everything else, but they're a few hundred years out from making their debut. The Tau are mostly on the Imperium's level, plus or minus in a few fields. I imagine they're using fossil fuels but they do so cleaner than the Imperium and are trying to diversify but at the moment they're doubling down on 'what can plasma do for you?' rather than trying to make something like geothermal work on the scales they need. The Necrons have completed the tech tree so whatever they're using probably isn't fossil fuels but 'harvesting the chronotrons from decaying time streams' or whatever they're actually doing isn't a primary concern for them. The Eldar use a mix of psychic powers (Craftworld), natural processes applied to ecologies (Exodites) and 'being an asshole' (Dark Eldar). They're more in line with our tech tree (they recognized geomantic infrastructure when they saw it), but they're optimized more for dealing with the Wyld as a source of power, which totally isn't biting them in the backside when the local Wyld went crazy and started trying to eat them.

 

[StarJaunter]

Can we use Abraxan Workings of Darkest Mysteries and Deepest Lore to put the Hand of Darkness outside of Fate, so it can't be subject to any divination ever again? (Later, not this season.)

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Maybe? Not permanently or perfectly. Whatever you did would create something that limits your acess. Like requiring a project or only being able to access it once every 25 year or something

Can the Tau teach us about solar panels? Surely most spacefaring civilizations don't still rely on fossil fuels, for Sun's sake!

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You fool! The sun is too powerful for such meagre constructs to channel the tiniest fraction of its power! To be fair you probably due have crystal and vegetative tech that is powered by light exposure. Its just usually you can use geomantic or personal essence to amplify the effects for you. Or at least control. But I mean pretty much any vegetative is solar powered by default

fossil fuels

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We resemble that remark (dead dinosaurs)
Or
Is that that what you call your squigs before tossing them in the juicer?

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

Maybe? Not permanently or perfectly. Whatever you did would create something that limits your acess. Like requiring a project or only being able to access it once every 25 year or something

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So we could seal it on a timer? That seems incredibly well suited to our needs.

 

[Erinys]

But seriously, why hasn't any spacefaring civilization, anywhere, figured out how to use solar power, or nuclear power, or anything at all except fossil fuels? Is there some law of physics in this universe that solar and wind and nuclear power are literally impossible without magic?

Trying to power a starship engine with fossil fuels would require a vastly bigger starship, made almost entirely out of fuel tanks full of explodium, causing inertia that requires even more fuel to overcome... if it's not impossible it's so stupidly impractical that only total idiots (Orks) would be content with it. And even the Orks use magic red paint to overcome the physics problems.

Remember I know nothing about Warhammer, I am just looking at this as a space setting. I've never seen any sci-fi or sci-fantasy where solar power and nuclear power are utterly nonexistant/impossible/incomprehensible to all forms of life. Especially considering that the Imperium is descended from humans on Earth, who clearly have invented solar panels, why would they chose to stop using that tech?

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

But seriously, why hasn't any spacefaring civilization, anywhere, figured out how to use solar power, or nuclear power, or anything at all except fossil fuels? Is there some law of physics in this universe that solar and wind and nuclear power are literally impossible without magic?

Trying to power a starship engine with fossil fuels would require a vastly bigger starship, made almost entirely out of fuel tanks full of explodium, causing inertia that requires even more fuel to overcome... if it's not impossible it's so stupidly impractical that only total idiots (Orks) would be content with it. And even the Orks use magic red paint to overcome the physics problems.

Remember I know nothing about Warhammer, I am just looking at this as a space setting. I've never seen any sci-fi or sci-fantasy where solar power and nuclear power are utterly nonexistant/impossible/incomprehensible to all forms of life. Especially considering that the Imperium is descended from humans on Earth, who clearly have invented solar panels, why would they chose to stop using that tech?

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They do. Imperial Ships run on Plasma Generators, fueled by hydrogen isotopes. Promethium has two meanings "space napalm" and "anything you burn".

 

[Voidseer]

Like requiring a project or only being able to access it once every 25 year or something

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It sounds perfect for our purposes. How much AP would it cost to do or should I write an omaka for it? If I had known/thought of this earlier I would have put it in my plans in the beginning.

 

[Erinys]

Thanks. The term "Promethium" is very confusing because in real life that is element 98, a radioactive lanthanoid metal and not flammable or fusionable in any useful sense, not even isotopically stable. And then I read that it can be mined/drilled like oil and coal from planets that have or had biospheres, but not from planets that didn't (although hydrogen should be available on any planet with water, and even fossil fuels can form on a lifeless world like Titan). I understand it's a somewhat absurdist setting and maybe "Promethium" = Handwavium, but we are trying to round out a tech tree by stealing from our alien neighbors...

And currently we have serious trouble building or powering cities, let alone spaceships, without demesnes which are not common enough. Getting nonmagical solar panels would improve our options for cities (probably not ships), and it's just hard to imagine that nobody anywhere, ever, has figured out how to make or use them.


Edit: Though I suppose it's appropriate for an Imperium depicted as technologically degenerate and socially regressive to have forgotten how to use solar panels... or the periodic table.

 

[Erinys]

It sounds perfect for our purposes. How much AP would it cost to do or should I write an omaka for it? If I had known/thought of this earlier I would have put it in my plans in the beginning.

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It involves a sorcerous working, so if we want control over what the drawback is, to make sure it's a 25-year counter, we have to increase the Finess and that'll either raise the DC, raise the successes needed, or raise the AP and time needed.

 

[Slamu]

Edit: Though I suppose it's appropriate for an Imperium depicted as technologically degenerate and socially regressive to have forgotten how to use solar panels... or the periodic table.

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I seem to recall solar panels being mentioned for some satellites and other orbital infrastructure, but always in a supplementary role rather than as a primary means of motivation. The Rogue Trader books have some modules for exploration and mining that mention 'solar harvesters' that expand your power capacity, but it's impractical for combat situations (being both fragile and vulnerable), though that seemed like 'solar panels' were just the beginning there.

Part of the equation is that a lot of the setting runs on Plot, and 'our tanks run on hyper-efficient fuel cells that don't explode and are good for another 98 years before their next recharge' isn't as narratively suspenseful as 'ammo is low, fuel running low, but we can make Molotov Cocktails out of scavenged supplies'.

The periodic table is, I suspect, known to the Mechanicus who consider it a guild secret and if anyone else discovers it they're either killed or pressured into joining the AdMech to preserve the holy secrets of the Machine and the Quest For Knowledge.

And currently we have serious trouble building or powering cities, let alone spaceships, without demesnes which are not common enough. Getting nonmagical solar panels would improve our options for cities (probably not ships), and it's just hard to imagine that nobody anywhere, ever, has figured out how to make or use them.

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I don't think we've had problems with building or powering cities, as thus far demenses have been sufficient to the task. That might change in the future, but we're hardly overflowing with too many dragons, not enough living space. (The orks have too much anyway, they won't mind if we take some off their hands, right?)

Remember I know nothing about Warhammer, I am just looking at this as a space setting. I've never seen any sci-fi or sci-fantasy where solar power and nuclear power are utterly nonexistant/impossible/incomprehensible to all forms of life. Especially considering that the Imperium is descended from humans on Earth, who clearly have invented solar panels, why would they chose to stop using that tech?

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The setting was made in the 80s, which effects some of how they view nuclear energy in-setting. Some of the older stuff mentions the use of 'Forbidden Atomics' (in part to explain why, when the bad guys are fielding millions of goons, you don't just WMD them a bit) and modern AdMech lists include "rad weapons" which basically kills everyone on the battlefield not important enough to get anti-radiation treatments afterwards that leads me to suspect the cogboys probably know about splitting the atom. The Necron, as I mentioned, almost certainly know about those and just use Clarketech (they explicitly can't use space magic, but they can take super-scientists that more or less do the same thing).

 

[Exmorri]

Thanks. The term "Promethium" is very confusing because in real life that is element 98, a radioactive lanthanoid metal and not flammable or fusionable in any useful sense, not even isotopically stable. And then I read that it can be mined/drilled like oil and coal from planets that have or had biospheres, but not from planets that didn't (although hydrogen should be available on any planet with water, and even fossil fuels can form on a lifeless world like Titan). I understand it's a somewhat absurdist setting and maybe "Promethium" = Handwavium, but we are trying to round out a tech tree by stealing from our alien neighbors...

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My understanding of "Promethium" in the Imperium is that it's not one substance, but a loose category which includes oil, which is why different kinds of promethium have so many inconsistent uses and behaviors. It's named after the Greek fire-bringer because the defining trait of the category is that it burns well. I would translate the word to something like "liquid fuel" or maybe "hydrocarbons".

But seriously, why hasn't any spacefaring civilization, anywhere, figured out how to use solar power, or nuclear power, or anything at all except fossil fuels? Is there some law of physics in this universe that solar and wind and nuclear power are literally impossible without magic?

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Edit: Though I suppose it's appropriate for an Imperium depicted as technologically degenerate and socially regressive to have forgotten how to use solar panels... or the periodic table.

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The Imperium does have other power sources in at least one book - one of the Necromunda splats mentions it in passing as part of a rivalry between the Promethium Guild and the Electro Guild over who gets to be the supplier of light and heat to the hives. The Promethium Guild wants stuff to run on fossil fuels, the Electro Guild uses solar and geothermal power to generate electricity.

 

[StarJaunter]

I am almost certain the Imperium uses tiny nuclear reactors for things... shielding for those is one of the things I implied Dysprosium is for.

However those are limited to the Admech whereas (most) Internal combustion engines can be built, repaired and maintained by normals.

In Exalted terms its like the difference between Sorcerous Technicians and the blacksmith. A fission or fusion reactor must be built in a Flawless Workshop by someone with at least 5 dots in multiple skills and run by Sorcerous technicians and savants. Bob the builder can run and probably repair the fuel burning engine in his truck.

And on the scale the imperium operates at you can throw a lot of ICE vehicles at a problem or a much smaller number of fusion powered wonders and they need the numbers to face things like Orks.

If it helps Eldar totally have what Dragon Kings would consider solar sails. IE sails not too much bigger than the base craft that let a craft hundreds or thousands of meters long move noteworthily faster if they angle it right. Which is absurd from a physics perspective but totally makes sense to Dragon Kings.

You also use Jade Drills to create stationary power taps which means you can power cities almost anywhere it just severely limits what you can do. By severely I mean it doesn't cause an area effect blessing which enhances the health of those who live there and banishes demons, nor does it have a city protecting shield, nor can inhabitants ask the city computer any question anywhere they stand and have it answer them with visual and auditory illusions. Its does have perfect temperature control where its wanted, limited weather manipulation, cellphone and radiostation-equivalents, implosion bows mounted on magically reinforced walls, self healing and cleaning roads and mosaics of heart rending beauty lining the ally ways. They are not suffering compared to US much less compared to most 40k dwellers. They are low end only compared to those who dwell in Major Manse cities. Remember these Major manse cities are not JUST cities. They are fortresses, temples, and can maintain millions of Dragon Kings at the highest standards of living.

And also remember that many dragon kings prefer to live away from such cities just cause they are so soft.

In terms of additional power options
You also have been told you can add 50% to your demense amount by building CCI. You will also be able to create demense when you finally cap them all. Through geomantic earthworks projects to create new demense. You also have two new worlds to build new manses on. You also can potentially deploy gas giant geomantic taps for basically unlimited vessel power.

You also have this research item:
[ ] Worm-power: The power produced by the worms is not amazing by geomantic standards, its lifetime is irregular, ranging from 10 to 60 minutes and takes a full day to recharge. Still by the standards of power supplies that operate without ANY fuel or geomantic installation its pretty impressive. Just as we use white jade taps to supply geomantic power in areas it is lacking we can also use a worm powerplant, filling it with several dozen globes and a power regulation system to compensate for the irregular power usage in order to supply geomantic power in areas a jade drill is impossible but a large volume can be dedicated to worm farming. AP Needed: 1. DC: 25. Success Needed: 3. Reward: You are able to build Bioluminescent Worms Power stations to supply stationary geomantic equipment needs like artillery or LTR Spheres in exchange for Volume.

Which is not a fossil fuel user OR a manse.

 

[Erinys]

Thank you all, that helps a lot.

I had forgotten about Worm Power and I didnt realize CCI would do that.

 

[fictionfan]

I was reading this quest and I had an odd idea. If we were to make our own version of the astronomican would the Emperor let himself die?

 

[Slamu]

I am almost certain the Imperium uses tiny nuclear reactors for things... shielding for those is one of the things I implied Dysprosium is for.

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I know Space Marine armor is supposed to have some sort of 'micro-fusion' reactor in them.

You also have this research item:
[ ] Worm-power: The power produced by the worms is not amazing by geomantic standards, its lifetime is irregular, ranging from 10 to 60 minutes and takes a full day to recharge. Still by the standards of power supplies that operate without ANY fuel or geomantic installation its pretty impressive. Just as we use white jade taps to supply geomantic power in areas it is lacking we can also use a worm powerplant, filling it with several dozen globes and a power regulation system to compensate for the irregular power usage in order to supply geomantic power in areas a jade drill is impossible but a large volume can be dedicated to worm farming. AP Needed: 1. DC: 25. Success Needed: 3. Reward: You are able to build Bioluminescent Worms Power stations to supply stationary geomantic equipment needs like artillery or LTR Spheres in exchange for Volume.

Which is not a fossil fuel user OR a manse.

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Could we build those groundside and increase the density of armaments or conveniences a city has? "+50% AA Light Implosion Bow coverage" seems workable, but I'm not sure if 'this village now supports atmospheric comfort manipulation' is on the table with worm power.

I was reading this quest and I had an odd idea. If we were to make our own version of the astronomican would the Emperor let himself die?

Click to shrink...

I think the Astronomican is just one project among many the Emprah is working on. We might get something like that working on a sector level (probably some variation of "Attack the local Wyld, take one of their nodes and reshape it in ways more pleasing to us") but even if we managed some sort of...turbo-Mercury manse to allow Wyld travel using Astronomicon features, there's not guarantee that human Navigators can make use of it, as Dragon Navigators can't (or won't, once they finish being made) use the Astronomicon. Even if they could, the best case scenario I'm seeing is "Imperium invades, forces Dragon Kings to tend the Astronomicon to the exclusion of all else", which...we're not ready to resist, not yet.

That said, I'm all for making a try later on even if I think gates linking our territories would give us a significant strategic mobility advantage.

If it helps Eldar totally have what Dragon Kings would consider solar sails. IE sails not too much bigger than the base craft that let a craft hundreds or thousands of meters long move noteworthily faster if they angle it right. Which is absurd from a physics perspective but totally makes sense to Dragon Kings.

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Would adapting these sails as a Component be permissible? Or perhaps researching something inspired by them?