Constellations (Worm/Okami)

[riaantheunissen]

Well maybe Juvie will be the place to put her back together. Can't be worse than canon...?

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Honestly, I don't know whether Sophia would be able to put herself together better. I think that she probably went as far as she could on her own, and made a real mess of it. However, given what I think of the PRT, Protectorate leaders, Piggot, Armsmaster and Miss Militia juvie would have to be quite bad to be worse.

I don't understand why you think past trauma excuses her current behaviour.
Sure that shit's bad and all, but that shouldn't give you a free pass to take it out on those not involved.

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Ah... Past trauma being used as an excuse... Nope. But then, being forced into the Wards isn't a reward, it's a punishment in my opinion. But with human beings in charge of her that actually care about the kids under them, it would be both a punishment and a chance for Sophia to rebuild herself with help, becoming a bit better.

 

[Rajvik_wolfboy]

Ah... Past trauma being used as an excuse... Nope. But then, being forced into the Wards isn't a reward, it's a punishment in my opinion. But with human beings in charge of her that actually care about the kids under them, it would be both a punishment and a chance for Sophia to rebuild herself with help, becoming a bit better.

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The problem is that she didn't take the opportunity to get help or make herself better, she just kept her head down long enough that they weren't watching her as closely and then went right back to what she had been.

 

[Torgamous]

Mildly disappointed that Rachel hasn't shown up. She's like purpose-built for an Okami crossover.

Don't get me wrong, this is a joy to read, there's just a Rachel-shaped hole in my heart.

 

[UnwelcomeStorm]

Sophia is most likely in juvie, yes, which isn't the ideal situation for her to end up in. It does still have a better prognosis for her than canon, because she won't be spending the next few years being 'watched' by enablers.

Same deal with Emma, really. She could really use a better place to be in, but getting her away from those enabling her damage is a necessary first step.

 

[Thelunarwolf]

So... Psych Ward instead of Psycho Ward for Emma?

or Social Services, with a relocation out of town and mandated Therapy.

What exactly are the rules for social service relocation in the states, i know the laws for sweden but?

 

[riaantheunissen]

The problem is that she didn't take the opportunity to get help or make herself better, she just kept her head down long enough that they weren't watching her as closely and then went right back to what she had been.

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Well, she is screwed up, and doesn't understand that she's screwed up. Until she realizes that, is shown that and is given the suggestion that yes, she can become better than what she is she won't improve. She won't realize that she needs to improve or can improve.

That's why a PRT director that cares about the Wards as people, as kids, and Protectorate people who try to take care of the Wards would be good. And therapy. Lots.

Would therapy and superiors that are actually worthwhile make her a good person? I don't know. She'd probably stay a bitch, but the rest is up to whatever writer ever decides to use her that way in a story.

 

[Vianca]

Mildly disappointed that Rachel hasn't shown up. She's like purpose-built for an Okami crossover.

Don't get me wrong, this is a joy to read, there's just a Rachel-shaped hole in my heart.

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Give it time.
Lung could demand a different way of the Undersiders paying him back, then dead.
Community work.
Can see Tt likening that quite a lot, if she is ever forced to join the undersiders, by coil his forceful recruiting.

Mmm, say is a certain wolf bussy trapping coil his future hidout?
How long untill Taylor gets leasons on the words she is drowing?
How long before the E88 does something stupid?
Because I know we're all waiting on it.
Or should I say, the counter reaction?

 

[Schielman]

So... Psych Ward instead of Psycho Ward for Emma?

or Social Services, with a relocation out of town and mandated Therapy.

What exactly are the rules for social service relocation in the states, i know the laws for sweden but?

Click to shrink...

From my experience, it's a pain in the ass. DCFS is underfunded and overworked in the states I'm familiar with, and while I won't say they don't have teeth, but it does takes something really serious for them to get involved, and then it takes a while for them to do anything meaningful.

 

[Dark Mage]

This story does seam to operate in a vacuum in regards to the other power groups in Brockton Bay. There is no way they can not be aware of what is going on in ABB territory. Though Coil does have the advantage being able to investigate with out anyone finding out.

Well, anyone but a goddess.

Actually. I sort of want the Wards to start getting into the story. I doubt that Piggot and Armsmaster would send the Wards to a area in the middle of ABB territory. Pity, I would love to see Aegis reaction to Ammy.

 

[Dacl73]

You know, it might be funny if the local Protectorate is wondering about this Mysterious cape called "Miko", until one of the Wards points out that Miko isn't a cape name, but a Title for a Shinto Shrine Maiden/Priestess (it can very with shrines).

Others possibilities, New Wave finds out about her... GG meeting Ammy. Or better, Amy meeting Ammy!

 

[Cosar]

You know, it might be funny if the local Protectorate is wondering about this Mysterious cape called "Miko", until one of the Wards points out that Miko isn't a cape name, but a Title for a Shinto Shrine Maiden/Priestess (it can very with shrines).

Others possibilities, New Wave finds out about her... GG meeting Ammy. Or better, Amy meeting Ammy!

Click to shrink...

It would take more than that. Given some of the names given, they probably would think that it's a cape using the title as their cape name.

 

[Vianca]

Worse guys, Taylor learning heavenly brush strokes with her new heavenly brush.
The world will never be save(r) again.

 

[Thelunarwolf]

"Hookwolf led an assault on the Shrine in the middle of night, but when they passed the Komainu... and wrought bladed destruction upon the Torii... The Sun rose... and moments later the Ōkami was seen hunting the remaining E88 members all the way to their territory."

"You say remaining, What of Hookwolf?"

"None has seen him since the sunrise, apparently he was heard boasting by an elderly woman who lives near the shrine, that he'd...defile... the Miko in the ruins of the Shrine"

 

[uju32]

I don't understand why you think past trauma excuses her current behaviour.
Sure that shit's bad and all, but that shouldn't give you a free pass to take it out on those not involved.

Click to shrink...

Excuse, no.
Explain and point towards how it could be fixed, perhaps.
The problem is that entirely too much of fanon views her as solely a victimizer, instead of also another victim.

Honestly, I don't know whether Sophia would be able to put herself together better. I think that she probably went as far as she could on her own, and made a real mess of it. However, given what I think of the PRT, Protectorate leaders, Piggot, Armsmaster and Miss Militia juvie would have to be quite bad to be worse.

Click to shrink...

I respectfully disagree.
Vehemently.

Ah... Past trauma being used as an excuse... Nope. But then, being forced into the Wards isn't a reward, it's a punishment in my opinion. But with human beings in charge of her that actually care about the kids under them, it would be both a punishment and a chance for Sophia to rebuild herself with help, becoming a bit better.

Click to shrink...

Which part?

The health benefits and medical care? The weekly pay? The trust fund? The supervision?The equipment?
The protection from being dragooned by other parahuman factions?
You're not even compelled to patrol; you can sit at base and monitor the console and do PR events.

The life expectancy for Protectorate capes is also much better than that of supervills and rogues for a reason.
You may not remember, but SS got herself fucked up enough to call the Barnes' for help once upon a time.
Then there was when she got captured by the Undersiders, and the only real deterrent to them crossing the line with her was her PRT affiliation.

This meme of the evil, oppressive PRT needs to die in a fire.

Sophia is most likely in juvie, yes, which isn't the ideal situation for her to end up in. It does still have a better prognosis for her than canon, because she won't be spending the next few years being 'watched' by enablers.

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I'm going to vehemently disagree.

In canon, Sophia Hess spent two years in incarceration from 2011 to 2013, before she was released during Gold Morning.
Nothing. Juvie isn't set up to rehabilitate, just incarcerate.
Especially when you combine it with the fact that her only close friend Emma abandoned her quite ostentatiously, and her mother cut ties.

There has to be a support system, and actual care, if you want to get a person to change.
Emma is not in the mental headspace to provide any support, and SS's mother is a single parent with two other minor kids to raise.
Unless things change, Sophia is not getting better.

Especially since the feeling of being trapped was made her trigger.

Same deal with Emma, really. She could really use a better place to be in, but getting her away from those enabling her damage is a necessary first step.

Click to shrink...

This I would actually agree with.
The fact that she is neglecting her grooming is a very bad sign.

 

[UnwelcomeStorm]

I'm going to vehemently disagree.

In canon, Sophia Hess spent two years in incarceration from 2011 to 2013, before she was released during Gold Morning.
Nothing. Juvie isn't set up to rehabilitate, just incarcerate.
Especially when you combine it with the fact that her only close friend Emma abandoned her quite ostentatiously, and her mother cut ties.

There has to be a support system, and actual care, if you want to get a person to change.
Emma is not in the mental headspace to provide any support, and SS's mother is a single parent with two other minor kids to raise.
Unless things change, Sophia is not getting better.

Click to shrink...

I'd agree with this, which is why I said Juvie isn't an ideal situation. It really isn't.

On the other hand, I stand by what I said of canon still being worse off for Sophia. The Brockton Bay PRT didn't do anything for her beyond the minimum-- no regular therapy until Weld insisted on it, and even before that therapists were cycled out regularly to prevent 'influence', which has the side effect of completely harpooning any chance of developing trust between patient and therapist. She'll still get health care and such in detention, and once she's out there's probably a good chance of her getting a job offer from the Protectorate anyway-- whether she takes it or not is on her.

You've already pointed out that she doesn't have a support system in canon. Keeping her close to canon's rails won't get her one. It does, however, let her be enabled to continue her abusive behavior: there were supposed to be fail-safes in play to keep her behavior monitored to make sure she actually was rehabilitating, but those fail-safes failed. Instead she was allowed to run rampant without fear of consequence, which only reinforces her negative behaviors.

Juvie isn't ideal, but it does at least remove her from a situation where she was not primed to get better, at all. It sucks, but it's also an opportunity.

 

[shinkicker444]

I really hope we get a sunrise at midnight scene at some point.

You know, it might be funny if the local Protectorate is wondering about this Mysterious cape called "Miko", until one of the Wards points out that Miko isn't a cape name, but a Title for a Shinto Shrine Maiden/Priestess (it can very with shrines).

Others possibilities, New Wave finds out about her... GG meeting Ammy. Or better, Amy meeting Ammy!

Click to shrink...

If it took a Ward to point out the cultural connection I would be disappointed because it would mean the 'adults' are complete morons. The fact that Collin and Danny didn't know what the offerings were kinda stretched it, but is believable to a point. It should be apparent the place and the actions have a meaning. But them not going back and doing research on the shrine and what it would mean would be down right pants on head stupid. The term Miko should be one of the earliest things they see. Even if they might think it's a cape appropriating the name because of parahuman activity, they should know of its origin by the time they go back.

 

[uju32]

I'd agree with this, which is why I said Juvie isn't an ideal situation. It really isn't.

Click to shrink...

Really isn't.
Enough first-timers who go into the system come out hardened.
And Sophia hits entirely too many risk factors: single parent home, working parent, minority race, and the recidivism rate for people <24 was ~84% in 2005.

Not sure the PRT wouldn't attempt to salvage her by sending her to another city, with more stringent monitoring.
Dunno; your story, not mine.

Instead she was allowed to run rampant without fear of consequence, which only reinforces her negative behaviors.

Click to shrink...

Point of order:
She only really got to run rampant in the wake of the multiple disasters that BB was undergoing.
Including a gang war, a bombing campaign, the E88 taking the gloves off, and then Leviathan.
We don't know when her feud with Grue started.

Her thing with Taylor predated PRT recruitment too, and much of that was Emma, to the point where Charlotte claimed that Emma Barnes went around and threatened/talked people into keeping quiet.
There is certainly a strong argument for changing her environment, starting with schools.
But the only thing I can be sure that juvie does is protecting others from her, not helping her get better.

I do have to say that the PRT method of psych care was nucking futs.
Rotating the psychologists out? What genius came up with that?

If it took a Ward to point out the cultural connection

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Velocity should recognize it just fine.
He is taking Chinese lessons on the local PRT's tab, and Japanese/Chinese shrines are pretty similar
Worm Feats and Source Thread | Page 9

 

[DBDrake]

Having worked in some centers, juvenile detention is SUPPER fucked up in major metropolitan areas.

It is the next best thing to SRS BUISSNESS prison. Worse than jail, better than prison.

The best you can hope for fucked up.

On the other hand, This is about 100% the effect of overcrowding.

 

[Hunter 1]

I do have to say that the PRT method of psych care was nucking futs.
Rotating the psychologists out? What genius came up with that?

Click to shrink...

I seem to recall hearing that it's because they fear a doctor becoming too close to a parahuman and manuplating them for the doctor's own ends.

Why do they fear this? Because it happened once, and naturally, they couldn't come up with a better solution, like improved screening...

 

[Cosar]

I seem to recall hearing that it's because they fear a doctor becoming too close to a parahuman and manuplating them for the doctor's own ends.

Why do they fear this? Because it happened once, and naturally, they couldn't come up with a better solution, like improved screening...

Click to shrink...

The author has a consistently negative view regarding systems. I'm not sure that any system shown in the story works as intended or toward it's purported goals. The situation with therapists being a mess is just another aspect of this.

Though I believe the cause for the rotation is actually a bit of the opposite, namely that they worry about the Therapists being mastered...though the solution there is to have a special system on a case by case for masters, not to torpedo everyone else's situation.

 

[The Stormbringer]

I really hope we get a sunrise at midnight scene at some point.


If it took a Ward to point out the cultural connection I would be disappointed because it would mean the 'adults' are complete morons. The fact that Collin and Danny didn't know what the offerings were kinda stretched it, but is believable to a point. It should be apparent the place and the actions have a meaning. But them not going back and doing research on the shrine and what it would mean would be down right pants on head stupid. The term Miko should be one of the earliest things they see. Even if they might think it's a cape appropriating the name because of parahuman activity, they should know of its origin by the time they go back.

Click to shrink...

The fact that Armsmaster didn't use his ArmsHelm to run a quick ArmsSearch on Google and find out if 'Miko' had any known meanings is the real mystery here.

Arms!

 

[uju32]

I seem to recall hearing that it's because they fear a doctor becoming too close to a parahuman and manuplating them for the doctor's own ends.
Why do they fear this? Because it happened once, and naturally, they couldn't come up with a better solution, like improved screening...

Click to shrink...

Nah, it's bullshit.
Because if that was the case, they'd be transferring PRT Directors every couple months too, to avoid capes and directors becoming too close.
Just a function of the author not being versed in psychological practice, which is understandable; noone is an expert in multiple fields.

The fact that Armsmaster didn't use his ArmsHelm to run a quick ArmsSearch on Google and find out if 'Miko' had any known meanings is the real mystery here.

Click to shrink...

Noone's used that term to him though.

The author has a consistently negative view regarding systems. I'm not sure that any system shown in the story works as intended or toward it's purported goals. The situation with therapists being a mess is just another aspect of this.

Click to shrink...

I dispute this.
The PRT was set up and has run for twenty-some years largely successfully.
Parahuman regulation has largely worked in North America, and China.
You only notice the broken systems; the ones working fine or adequately don't draw attention.

 

[GilliamYaeger]

The fact that Armsmaster didn't use his ArmsHelm to run a quick ArmsSearch on ArmsGoogle and find out if 'Miko' had any known ArmsMeanings is the real ArmsMystery here.

Arms!

Click to shrink...

fixed that for you

 

[shinkicker444]

fixed that for you

Click to shrink...

Armsmaster is really like a pikachu.

"Arms master-master arms Armsmaster, Arms!"

 

[riaantheunissen]

Excuse, no.
Explain and point towards how it could be fixed, perhaps.
The problem is that entirely too much of fanon views her as solely a victimizer, instead of also another victim.

Click to shrink...

Nicely put and I couldn't agree more.

Excuse, no.
I respectfully disagree.
Vehemently.

Click to shrink...

My opinion of Piggot, Miss Militia, Armsmaster and the Protectorate Leaders in general is bad. If you wish let me know and I'll either send you a message, or, if UnwelcomeStorm allows it, reply here with quotes and how that caused me to think badly of them.

Which part?

The health benefits and medical care? The weekly pay? The trust fund? The supervision?The equipment?
The protection from being dragooned by other parahuman factions?
You're not even compelled to patrol; you can sit at base and monitor the console and do PR events.

The life expectancy for Protectorate capes is also much better than that of supervills and rogues for a reason.
You may not remember, but SS got herself fucked up enough to call the Barnes' for help once upon a time.
Then there was when she got captured by the Undersiders, and the only real deterrent to them crossing the line with her was her PRT affiliation.

This meme of the evil, oppressive PRT needs to die in a fire.

Click to shrink...

Why do I consider the Wards membership a punishment in Sophia's case, if she's forced to join, and not a reward? Because she's forced. Anything that a person has to be forced to do isn't a reward, it's a punishment.

Why do I consider the Wards membership a bad thing in general?

Several reasons. The least is that in my opinion, once you join the Wards, you lose the ability to make a number of choices. Now, at the time of joining the kid might be unaware of the options he or she's giving up, might consider it a fair exchange or might not have a choice. But things change, and how likely is the kid to be allowed to quit as a Ward, or choose to become anything except a Protectorate member?

The more important reason why I think being a Ward is a bad thing though is due to what is shown in the original story. (I have already made mention of it in two replies in the story thread of That Gnawing Worm, Cancer. Here and here.)

Basically, to sum up, without looking at things that I think could arguably be blamed on individuals, the organization responsible for the the Wards, the PRT, could have children as young as 12 years patrolling, could ignore the possible danger to a Ward whose identity had been compromised and did not need to provide therapy to Wards whose friends and teammates had been killed. There either aren't rules to protect Wards from these things, the rules aren't enforced or the penalties for not following the rules are so light they aren't a problem. And this leads to the ugly thought, how many other things that we aren't shown are problems for Wards as well?