While the bullying debate has killed my good mood, I'd like to point out that Sunny is not, in fact, trying to make "dip in a spring in November" worse than it was. She's not that kind of person. (Also, she, uh, really, really does not act like the top-rank goddess she is. Not even in the games. There's a reason we call her a derpwolf, even aside from the Wile E. Coyote imitations she does on a regular basis.) She's just keeping her sake from getting warm, and doing it super dramatically for funnies.
Tbh, I suspect that Taylor will find the fountain unseasonably warm, fed by snowmelt or no.
(Besides. Taylor has, in fact, successfully pushed back against an Ammy plan more than once. Most obviously immediately post-Lung. What they're doing now isn't much more serious than, I don't know, filling your dorm room with giant party balloons or something.)
Edit: For anyone wondering, they taste... pretty much like other flavors of Glico Pocky, but... different, a bit. Obviously, I'll need to buy some Matcha powder and cook with it to get a better feel for the taste.
Whenever I read this story, this stands out to me as being the quintessential line of the entire fic. The entirety of this 110,000 word story, can be perfectly embodied in those 8 little words. Think about it. It is ominous, menacing, and badass, at the same time as being heartwarming and kind, and it is still utterly hilarious. That is the essence of this story's tone. What's more it holds the themes of the fic, as well. Oni Lee is broken, in a fundamental way. But he's being healed and saved due to Amaterasu's intervention. And he is, as best as he knows how, passing that salvation on to others. He's not doing the best job, because of his limited field of experience- all he knows how to do is to kill. But what he knows, he's using to save a little girl who was under the protection of the Shrine's neutrality. His involvement with the shrine is actively making him a better person. This is a direct parallel to Taylor's story- she has no idea what's going on, and she's way, way in over her head, but she's doing the best she can, and it's not only helping the lives of those around her, but it is helping her get over the emotional trauma caused by her mother's death, her father's distance, and Emma's betrayal and become a healthy person again.
Then, I start to think about Hunter. Like Constellation, Hunter can be perfectly summarized in one single line.
As much as Oni-Lee's statement held a world of meaning, this one holds, in my opinion, even more. Once again, the primary theme of the story is embodied in one single sentence. Taylor is, throughout the course of her time in the Hunt, desperately trying to help, to make things better. But she's lost, and losing touch. Everything she tries to do to help, she only makes the situation worse. Killing gangers sets the city on edge. Her "warning" to Sophia leads to a Cleric Beast rampaging across the town. And her attempt to reassure Assault, results in him being severely traumatized. And why does she make things worse? Because she's losing herself. She's falling deeper and deeper into the Hunt, and deeper and deeper into insanity. But what's more, she's becoming something both more and less than human. The sentence makes sense only to her, not because she's insane (and believe me, she is), but because she has Insight and Blood. She has seen and done things which nobody else on Earth Bet can comprehend, and she is becoming something more than human in the process. But at the same time, she's losing something. She can no longer understand normal humans, she can't relate to them. To an outsider, her actions and words are disjointed, erratic, and meaningless- insane. What she does makes sense, but she is so deeply lost in the Hunt that she has forgotten how to even speak to normal humans.
And, of course, thinking about this makes me compare both Constellations and Hunter, and I realize something- they're the same story. Or, more accurately, one of them is a twisted inversion of the other. In each of them, Taylor is embraced by a powerful god, a being whom the inhabitants of Bet cannot possibly understand. In each of them, that god is ultimately actually trying to help. In Constellations, that god is Amaterasu. In Hunter, it's an Old One, though we don't really know which one. But Amaterasu is successful- the world is becoming a better place in every possible way through her involvement. Peace, prosperity, good will, and general well-being are spreading in a web around her. And, on the other side of the coin, we have the Old One. *It's* efforts are resulting in madness, murder, destruction, and hopelessness in an equally widespread web. In each story, Taylor initially reacts to her new paradigm, her new life, with confusion and shock. She has no idea what is happening or how to understand it or how to cope. But she does the best she can, and while she never truly understands what is happening, she comes to cope with it, and be able to survive and even thrive in her new environment. Then she begins to accept it, viewing her new life as the norm, and forgetting about her old. Then, finally, she starts to spread it. Capes and normals alike are dragged into the ever-expanding spiral of her influence as peace and prosperity or madness and destruction are created by the simple act of her being there, in a way that she could not hope to control even if she were truly aware of the extent of the consequences of her actions (which she really, really isn't). And, even as she goes through these stages- shock, survival, acceptance, and expansion- she tries to cling to some desperate little scrap of normalcy, of the illusion that this isn't happening. Brushstroke tells herself over and over that she's not a cape, she's normal. She even gets excited about going to Winslow. Bloodmoon tells herself she's not mad, she's sane, she's doing what's necessary, and she absolutely, positively isn't a monster. And in both cases, the lie is paper thin. Brushstroke may not be a parahuman in the traditional sense, but she clearly isn't normal- she even wears her Okami outfit to school out of habit. And Bloodmoon has the mark of Impurity right on her arm, betraying the lie for what it is. There are even more similarities- in both stories, the PRT and Protectorate only make things worse by desperately trying to understand things under their only lens of the world, in both stories Taylor's greatest impact is upon her father, but she also heavily impacts the society of the Bay in general, and so on, but ultimately, I feel that the most significant similarity is in Taylor's actions, and her progression from fighting, to surviving, to accepting, to thriving in her new environment, and in how she inadvertently forces those around her to move in the same pattern.
Been sitting on this analysis for a while now, but only just wrote it up. Was kind hoping to get it out while both fics were actively updating, but eventually figured I'd rather get it out now.
While not a dedicated thread, maybe her snippets/one-shots thread? Then again, this analysis is about Constellations, so it does work here as well. It's iffy, but I like the fact that I've read it more than it doesn't entirely belong here.
Not only is the post about comparing this story with another story to find similar themes despite the wildly different tone and examine them, it's a well done analysis. 100% legit as far as I can see, and if someone turned this in for a comparative lit course I'd expect them to get a good grade.
While not a dedicated thread, maybe her snippets/one-shots thread? Then again, this analysis is about Constellations, so it does work here as well. It's iffy, but I like the fact that I've read it more than it doesn't entirely belong here.
Well, I did want to post it both here and in the Hunter thread simultaneously. I had also hoped that it would spark conversation, rather than just get upvotes. I wanted to hear other people's thoughts on my analysis- what do they agree with or disagree with? What other significant similarities or differences do they see? What does @UnwelcomeStorm think about it? Was this deliberate? Was it subconscious? Or was it a complete accident and a happy coincidence? Or maybe she doesn't even think it's that much, and I'm seeing shapes in the clouds on a clear day.
Well, I did want to post it both here and in the Hunter thread simultaneously. I had also hoped that it would spark conversation, rather than just get upvotes. I wanted to hear other people's thoughts on my analysis- what do they agree with or disagree with? What other significant similarities or differences do they see? What does @UnwelcomeStorm think about it? Was this deliberate? Was it subconscious? Or was it a complete accident and a happy coincidence? Or maybe she doesn't even think it's that much, and I'm seeing shapes in the clouds on a clear day.
I quite enjoyed reading it, and I was honestly pretty disappointed it didn't stir much conversation or debate, because literary criticism is something I actually studied. Seeing it occur in my own works is a pretty amazing feeling.
As for whether or not the arrangement was intentional? While I do have an odd obsession with setting up parallels, I didn't deliberately set out to make one between Hunter and Constellations. Seeing so many of them pointed out is pretty cool.
I do think there's an important distinction to be made: in your analysis, you attributed the ongoing situation in each fic at least partly to Taylor's ability, and that in Constellations she is succeeding but in Hunter she is failing, and I agree that a lot of that could probably be laid at the feet of the respective god she's dealing with. However, I think that each fic's wider web of consequences could be easily linked back to how Taylor responds to having a deity interfering in her life, that Acceptance stage you mentioned.
In Constellations, Taylor accepts her situation through trust. She realizes that Sunny is doing something, that Sunny has a plan-- she even asks her straight out at one point, just before the Tea Party I believe-- and she decides to trust that her friend is benign, that Sunny's plans have a good end. She trusts that her own role in them is appropriate, and she begins acting, with increasing forethought and perception, to fulfill that role.
In Hunter, by contrast, Taylor's mode of acceptance is through control. As soon as she has the ability to start imposing change on her surroundings, she seeks to control them; eliminate the beasts from an area, keep her dad safe, make use of Sophia, seek out the Cords and devour them. She realizes that there is something beyond her at work with the Hunt, and her decision is that it will only be stopped if she owns it. So she gets more power, which affords her greater control, greater ability to affect her surroundings, but it will never be enough until she can control the Hunt itself.
In that regard, I feel like Hunter is a much closer to canon look at Taylor than Constellations is. Maybe it's because Sunny got to Constellations-Taylor when she was younger, before she started getting hurt; kind of makes you wonder what would happen if the Okami things started showing up after the Locker, instead of before.
I quite enjoyed reading it, and I was honestly pretty disappointed it didn't stir much conversation or debate, because literary criticism is something I actually studied. Seeing it occur in my own works is a pretty amazing feeling.
As for whether or not the arrangement was intentional? While I do have an odd obsession with setting up parallels, I didn't deliberately set out to make one between Hunter and Constellations. Seeing so many of them pointed out is pretty cool.
I do think there's an important distinction to be made: in your analysis, you attributed the ongoing situation in each fic at least partly to Taylor's ability, and that in Constellations she is succeeding but in Hunter she is failing, and I agree that a lot of that could probably be laid at the feet of the respective god she's dealing with. However, I think that each fic's wider web of consequences could be easily linked back to how Taylor responds to having a deity interfering in her life, that Acceptance stage you mentioned.
In Constellations, Taylor accepts her situation through trust. She realizes that Sunny is doing something, that Sunny has a plan-- she even asks her straight out at one point, just before the Tea Party I believe-- and she decides to trust that her friend is benign, that Sunny's plans have a good end. She trusts that her own role in them is appropriate, and she begins acting, with increasing forethought and perception, to fulfill that role.
In Hunter, by contrast, Taylor's mode of acceptance is through control. As soon as she has the ability to start imposing change on her surroundings, she seeks to control them; eliminate the beasts from an area, keep her dad safe, make use of Sophia, seek out the Cords and devour them. She realizes that there is something beyond her at work with the Hunt, and her decision is that it will only be stopped if she owns it. So she gets more power, which affords her greater control, greater ability to affect her surroundings, but it will never be enough until she can control the Hunt itself.
In that regard, I feel like Hunter is a much closer to canon look at Taylor than Constellations is. Maybe it's because Sunny got to Constellations-Taylor when she was younger, before she started getting hurt; kind of makes you wonder what would happen if the Okami things started showing up after the Locker, instead of before.
I found the analysis interesting in that it parallels an analysis of Bloodborne and Dark Souls that I watched on Youtube, wherein it compares the two in terms of the Hero's journey- And how Bloodborne subverts the Hero's Journey, whereas Dark Souls plays it straight.
I found the analysis interesting in that it parallels an analysis of Bloodborne and Dark Souls that I watched on Youtube, wherein it compares the two in terms of the Hero's journey- And how Bloodborne subverts the Hero's Journey, whereas Dark Souls plays it straight.
I found the analysis interesting in that it parallels an analysis of Bloodborne and Dark Souls that I watched on Youtube, wherein it compares the two in terms of the Hero's journey- And how Bloodborne subverts the Hero's Journey, whereas Dark Souls plays it straight.
Now I'm trying to picture how the Constellations!verse could go to shit as bad as Hunter's, but Derp doG keeps foiling it. Though that would be interesting, if Bloodmoon somehow started influencing Constellations. Like, a crazed murderer starts roaming the streets every full moon, and Sunny is just freaking out over this weird ass Old One that's poking its appendages in her business.
If there was a crossover between the two fics, Miko!Taylor being put in another world would be slightly odd, as her "power" is tied very closely to her (and the shrine's (and Sunny's)) reputation. Though it would be disheartening for her, as long as she has Sunny, she'd be okay.
Though it would be nice to see Miko calming down Brockton Bay after they had to deal with Bloodmoon just by being herself.
I quite enjoyed reading it, and I was honestly pretty disappointed it didn't stir much conversation or debate, because literary criticism is something I actually studied. Seeing it occur in my own works is a pretty amazing feeling.
We look to be getting things started this time around, fortunately. I admit though, that I REEEEEE'd just a tad when I logged on and saw like 12 new upvotes and only one quote.
As for whether or not the arrangement was intentional? While I do have an odd obsession with setting up parallels, I didn't deliberately set out to make one between Hunter and Constellations. Seeing so many of them pointed out is pretty cool.
I didn't expect that it was intentional, but couldn't fully shake the suspicion. There were just so many similarities- I actually left off a whole list of them, because they were all individually minor things, and only served to prove my point when taken together as a whole, but that portion was like another 500 or so words without actually adding anything new, only expanding on old stuff.
In Hunter, by contrast, Taylor's mode of acceptance is through control. As soon as she has the ability to start imposing change on her surroundings, she seeks to control them; eliminate the beasts from an area, keep her dad safe, make use of Sophia, seek out the Cords and devour them. She realizes that there is something beyond her at work with the Hunt, and her decision is that it will only be stopped if she owns it. So she gets more power, which affords her greater control, greater ability to affect her surroundings, but it will never be enough until she can control the Hunt itself.
Hmm. What stands out to me more strongly is that in Hunter, Taylor accepts it unwillingly. She becomes a Hunter only when she finally realizes that she has no other possible choice, and even then, she's fighting against the Hunt at all times. Her goal is not to use this new world or accept it, it is to end it. She hates the hunt, she loathes the hunt, and she is only willing to participate in it because she physically has no other option. And even with that in mind, she still just wants it to end. There's a reason one of my favorite scenes in the story is when Miss Militia and Assault find her list, and where she scrawled ESCAPE onto every available surface
There's also a reason that my one true, profound disappointment with the story is that the Protectorate so quickly after that scene came to stumble upon a portion of the legitimate truth).
In that one moment, the Protectorate had what Taylor started off with- a flawed, imperfect glimpse into something which they thought they understood, but in truth, could not have been farther from comprehending. They stumbled upon the real, true, genuine depth of Taylor's absolute, complete and utter desperation to escape the Hunt. This is the desperation which has driven her to embrace the Old Blood, to forget that it is something to be feared. It is the desperation which has led to her willing acceptance of extreme violence. It is the desperation which has led her to the point wherein she is willing to commit cannibalism to escape the Hunt, because nothing else matters anymore. ESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPESCAPE
It's a bit hard to give implicit and explicit trust to an old man in a wheelchair who's only advice to you is "Just go out and kill the beasts." and then have you pray on a tombstone, woke up in an old city, kill beasts then get killed by beasts.
Taylor's previous circumstance right before the Dream is not helping either.
It's a bit hard to give implicit and explicit trust to an old man in a wheelchair who's only advice to you is "Just go out and kill the beasts." and then have you pray on a tombstone, woke up in an old city, kill beasts then get killed by beasts.
Taylor's previous circumstance right before the Dream is not helping either.
Yeah, that was a thing I forgot to mention because I got sidetracked in my last post. Bloodmoon never struck me as remotely in control of her situation. She's trying to gain control only in the sense that so isa drowning man who desperately tries to stay afloat, and swims downstream rather than up. She's realized that the only way out of the madness, is to go farther in. She's not truly trying to control the Dream, she just wants a way out.
In that regard, I feel like Hunter is a much closer to canon look at Taylor than Constellations is. Maybe it's because Sunny got to Constellations-Taylor when she was younger, before she started getting hurt; kind of makes you wonder what would happen if the Okami things started showing up after the Locker, instead of before.
I agree that Bloodmoon is much closer to canon than Brushstroke, but again, not because of a matter of control, but ruthlessness. They're not truly equal, in my mind, either. Skitter was willing to do absolutely anything, to accomplish what she considered to be morally good. If that meant gouging out a man's eyes, or murdering a law enforcement officer, she would not hesitate to do so. Bloodmoon, on the other hand, is (I feel like I'm harping on this too much, so I'm going to leave it at this) willing to do absolutely anything in order to escape the Dream.
Now I'm wondering what it would have looked like, if Sunny had approached Taylor only after the locker. There would have been significant distrust, true. But would Taylor really have attempted to exert so much control? I feel like Taylor only tends to get all controlling when put up against significant opposition or things clearly going wrong.
So, let's say Sunny rescues Taylor from the locker in place of her trigger event. Taylor probably assumes she has triggered, and Sunny is her projection. Because why else would there be a magical white dog in the school? Especially one trying to help her.
Insert shenanigans about Taylor trying to learn the specifics of 'her projection' and wondering if anyone else has such independent powers. If Sunny starts trying to guide her to fix up things, she may assume that doing so boosts her power somehow (powers have weird activation conditions sometimes). If Sunny doesn't, and just mostly let's Taylor do whatever, Taylor probably spends all her time power-testing Sunny, and deciding to go out and be a hero like in canon. Sunny probably helps her, because otherwise, unpowered Taylor is trying to stop crime all by herself.
Alternatively, Sunny makes it clear she's not Taylor's projection. Taylor maybe assumes she's a friendly Changer? Or projection from some other cape maybe. So, extra distrust about who this cape is and what they want with her, but Taylor is desperately lonely, so she probably accepts Sunny's friendship. They'll probably start jogging together. Maybe wander round together. Taylor will probably start wanting to help Sunny because she's desperate for her one friend not to leave her. Sunny cuddles Taylor. Maybe tries to fix things between her and Emma? Or at least her and Danny? I'm honestly not sure how the relationship would go from here. But I don't think Taylor would try to control Sunny exactly... Just try very hard to be the person Sunny wants her to be so Sunny doesn't leave her.
I don't think she truly desires to escape the Hunt. At first, she did, using energy drinks and other stimulants to avoid sleep as much as possible, but she soon stops doing that and starts to become used to the Hunt.
I don't think she truly desires to escape the Hunt. At first, she did, using energy drinks and other stimulants to avoid sleep as much as possible, but she soon stops doing that and starts to become used to the Hunt.
That's because she learned after Gascoigne the only way to escape the Hunt is to survive it. And that was before she met Willem, and before the clusterfuck with the PRT (and her ultimate realization that she will never escape the Hunt, ever) happened. After that, well... the only way to go is down, to the depth of the madness.
So, let's say Sunny rescues Taylor from the locker in place of her trigger event. Taylor probably assumes she has triggered, and Sunny is her projection. Because why else would there be a magical white dog in the school? Especially one trying to help her.
Insert shenanigans about Taylor trying to learn the specifics of 'her projection' and wondering if anyone else has such independent powers. If Sunny starts trying to guide her to fix up things, she may assume that doing so boosts her power somehow (powers have weird activation conditions sometimes). If Sunny doesn't, and just mostly let's Taylor do whatever, Taylor probably spends all her time power-testing Sunny, and deciding to go out and be a hero like in canon. Sunny probably helps her, because otherwise, unpowered Taylor is trying to stop crime all by herself.
I doubt she would agree to fixing up the shrine after the Locker. Her formative encounter with Sunny wasn't being lost in the woods: it was Sunny fixing her flute, showing her that tragedies can still be fixed. That if you love something, you don't give up on it.
Post-Locker, she's likely to be much more cynical, since she's been shown that trying to fix her own situation does nothing, and that people won't intervene on her behalf.
Now I'm wondering what it would have looked like, if Sunny had approached Taylor only after the locker. There would have been significant distrust, true. But would Taylor really have attempted to exert so much control? I feel like Taylor only tends to get all controlling when put up against significant opposition or things clearly going wrong.
So, let's say Sunny rescues Taylor from the locker in place of her trigger event. Taylor probably assumes she has triggered, and Sunny is her projection. Because why else would there be a magical white dog in the school? Especially one trying to help her.
Insert shenanigans about Taylor trying to learn the specifics of 'her projection' and wondering if anyone else has such independent powers. If Sunny starts trying to guide her to fix up things, she may assume that doing so boosts her power somehow (powers have weird activation conditions sometimes). If Sunny doesn't, and just mostly let's Taylor do whatever, Taylor probably spends all her time power-testing Sunny, and deciding to go out and be a hero like in canon. Sunny probably helps her, because otherwise, unpowered Taylor is trying to stop crime all by herself.
Alternatively, Sunny makes it clear she's not Taylor's projection. Taylor maybe assumes she's a friendly Changer? Or projection from some other cape maybe. So, extra distrust about who this cape is and what they want with her, but Taylor is desperately lonely, so she probably accepts Sunny's friendship. They'll probably start jogging together. Maybe wander round together. Taylor will probably start wanting to help Sunny because she's desperate for her one friend not to leave her. Sunny cuddles Taylor. Maybe tries to fix things between her and Emma? Or at least her and Danny? I'm honestly not sure how the relationship would go from here. But I don't think Taylor would try to control Sunny exactly... Just try very hard to be the person Sunny wants her to be so Sunny doesn't leave her.
