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Constellations (Worm/Okami)

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FaerieKnight79 said:
Eh, depends on the series. JRPGs have a longer history of good storytelling then western ones. And 90% of television is garbage. It's not just anime.
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90% of everything is garbage.
But that last 10% is worth facing Endbringers for.

Eh, it really depends, game wise. Both kinds are based off of DnD at their core, but Japanese devs leaned heavily on simplification of mechanics and spectacle for mass market appeal and accessibility for children, whereas the west tended to focus on character customization and open world design.

Both sides of the ocean have had bad games pop up in recent memory. A couple examples, two from each side, are Final Fantasy XIII, FFXV, Mass Effect Andromeda, and Fallout 76. (If you want to discuss this further, my private messages are open. Let's stop derailing the thread.)
 
Datcord said:
THEY'RE GONNA MAKE YOU WEAR A WEIRD HAT, TAYLOR.
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Nonsense. Neither the Red-White or Good Girl miko wore hats on a regular basis. Gigantic bow (that can probably pick up radio signels) and snake+frog hair ornaments sure, but no hats.
Datcord said:
*slowly pulls out that EMERGENCY bottle of Scotch*
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Yeah that 'Worry About It Later pile' that Taylor uses is getting rather large. She's going to have to deal with it eventually.....or have a nervous breakdown. Either or both occurring (potentially at the same time) is possible.
 
i'm still bad at putting the "seen constellations update" feel/response/noise into words for a comment.
 
Mirror Mage said:
All-in-all, it's a good chapter, though I hope this isn't the last we see of Emma. Given she seems to have an interesting redemption arc going on with Yuuta, dropping it now would feel like leaving a dangling plot thread behind. I can understand ending her relationship with Taylor, but I'd love seeing her growth continue.
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Yah, if Ammy didn't intervene to set Emma straight before, she wasn't gonna now.

But I agree in that Emma's character arc, compared to pretty much anyone else Taylor has interacted with, feels more.....'unfinished'.

But at the same time, I'm not sure how Emma 'grows' while staying in Taylor's orbit (even if it's tangentially via Yuuta) yet stays away from Taylor entirely - but the scene seems to indicate at least SOME level of finality/closure/break.....so.....who knows.

Highwind said:
On the one hand, this isn't a bad send-off for Emma. This was as close to closure as it gets, and the earrings were a nice touch, showing that Emma still cared about their friendship on some level.

On the other hand, I'm slightly disappointed if this is the end of Emma's character arc. Their old friendship is dead and the hateful revenant of it that Emma was clinging onto was finally buried, but she didn't really make amends. Hell, she made a point of not asking for forgiveness or even just saying she regrets what she did.

I do think it'd be too early and too out of character for Emma to attempt to rebuild their friendship, as she is right now. I don't think the friendship they had can be rebuilt, but this "goodbye" is a good turning point for Emma's character and I'd love to see where she goes from here.
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I feel of two minds - as you say, the sendoff was good, for its being an intentional messy, bitter-sweet affair. Taylor still lacks context (either through unintentional ignorance, longstanding mistrust, or a little of both) and Emma's not emotionally mature enough to say what she needs to really say (and/or doesn't know what she believes yet).

But it definitely feels like a much earlier/more incomplete 'sendoff' than any of the other characters in Taylor's orbit who have also largely fallen into a more distant orbit, such as Kayden, who serves as quite the stark contrast.

All in all, while I respect the scene, I also hope it's not the 'end' of Emma's growth/involvement, even if it happens largely, or entirely, away from Taylor.
 
Hangwind said:
Were those kitsune or nogitsune? One would be bad for the foxes. The other would be like vampires getting invited into a house only to see the Pope eating tea and biscuits.
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As i understand it,the term kitsune is the overarching term for the entire grouping of supernatural japanese fox spirits; A nogitsune is a specific kind of kitsune that serves a more focused role. Sources I've searched seem to disagree with one another, some seeing nogitsune as celestial servants of the kami Inari, others see them as mischievous or even malevolent fox spirits. One even intimated that a nogitsune was a disgraced kitsune that had lost it's tail. Given the characterization of the nogitsune in most of the sources was somewhat negative, it makes sense that the two could have been nogitsune, but unfortunately we do not have enough details to confirm this from the text alone. Only @UnwelcomeStorm can tell us what the two foxy ladies are, and something tells me that may not be forthcoming anytime soon.
 
Metroidvania said:
Yah, if Ammy didn't intervene to set Emma straight before, she wasn't gonna now.

But I agree in that Emma's character arc, compared to pretty much anyone else Taylor has interacted with, feels more.....'unfinished'.

But at the same time, I'm not sure how Emma 'grows' while staying in Taylor's orbit (even if it's tangentially via Yuuta) yet stays away from Taylor entirely - but the scene seems to indicate at least SOME level of finality/closure/break.....so.....who knows.



I feel of two minds - as you say, the sendoff was good, for its being an intentional messy, bitter-sweet affair. Taylor still lacks context (either through unintentional ignorance, longstanding mistrust, or a little of both) and Emma's not emotionally mature enough to say what she needs to really say (and/or doesn't know what she believes yet).

But it definitely feels like a much earlier/more incomplete 'sendoff' than any of the other characters in Taylor's orbit who have also largely fallen into a more distant orbit, such as Kayden, who serves as quite the stark contrast.

All in all, while I respect the scene, I also hope it's not the 'end' of Emma's growth/involvement, even if it happens largely, or entirely, away from Taylor.
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Emma's scene does feel incomplete, in that it doesn't really solve anything on Emma's side.

Taylor had already (mostly) grown beyond her relationship with Emma. Taylor has a whole new social circle, and her biggest worries don't involve Emma even tangentially.
But Emma has only just started to get over her relationship with Taylor. Even her "goodbye" was more for her own sake than Taylor's, and she still couldn't bring herself to ask for forgiveness or voice her regret despite it being painfully obvious she regrets her actions. And just as well, because anything she could say to salvage her old friendship would be insoncere or poisonous from the start.

The way I see it, all she did right now was to finally end her previous relationship with Taylor. All bridges have been burnt and their relationship is finally dead. Taylor has already moved on, and Emma can start to move on now.

There could be a new friendship, given enough character development on Emma's side. But if she leaves the story now and goes on to live her own life and grow beyond her previous issues and traumas in the background, that would be fine too, if somewhat less satisfying.

Does that make sense to anyone else?
 
Re Emma:

It's not a happy reconciliation, which I know some people expected, given Constellation's theme of making things better. it's not even a clean separation.

Bit it is moving forward, and not necessarily for Taylor.

In Chapter 47, we end on a monologue from Emma, as she reflects that her worldview has failed in various ways. She tried to be strong, but she's at least somewhat aware that she's weak. She tried to push Taylor away...

Chapter 47 said:
It was supposed to be a clean break, her and Taylor. Emma chose to end their lifelong friendship in favor of keeping Sophia, her rescuer; like a rite of passage, she'd left her childhood behind. Except Taylor wouldn't go away, wouldn't let years of sisterhood be shoved aside, wouldn't accept that Emma didn't need her anymore. She'd tried everything to sever that tie, and even when she and Sophia got serious about it, Taylor wouldn't even bite back and give Emma the justification she needed. She was supposed to win, but that required someone else to lose, and Taylor had refused to play at all.
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...but Taylor refused to run away. And yet, we see that of the two of them, Taylor was the one who moved on, who looked forward: she abandoned their shared jewelry, she chose her own path, while Emma clung to her half of that shared past. And at the end, when the chips finally fell, what did Emma do?

Chapter 47 said:
Emma stared at her vanity mirror, with its frame empty and barren of photographs, bookmarks, or stickers, and thought that this wasn't what it was supposed to look like. Nothing was how it was supposed to be. So, what was Emma supposed to do now-- and what was she going to do?
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Emma cut her hair.

She cut it down to the length it had been after her near-death experience with the ABB. Only this time, she didn't neaten it up, didn't try to hide it. She cut away the last year or so of her life in order to face Taylor again. And while she still wasn't strong enough to say "I," she's taken those first steps.

It's not a reconciliation.

But it is a hope of healing.
 
Highwind said:
Emma's scene does feel incomplete, in that it doesn't really solve anything on Emma's side.

Taylor had already (mostly) grown beyond her relationship with Emma. Taylor has a whole new social circle, and her biggest worries don't involve Emma even tangentially.
But Emma has only just started to get over her relationship with Taylor. Even her "goodbye" was more for her own sake than Taylor's, and she still couldn't bring herself to ask for forgiveness or voice her regret despite it being painfully obvious she regrets her actions. And just as well, because anything she could say to salvage her old friendship would be insoncere or poisonous from the start.

The way I see it, all she did right now was to finally end her previous relationship with Taylor. All bridges have been burnt and their relationship is finally dead. Taylor has already moved on, and Emma can start to move on now.

There could be a new friendship, given enough character development on Emma's side. But if she leaves the story now and goes on to live her own life and grow beyond her previous issues and traumas in the background, that would be fine too, if somewhat less satisfying.

Does that make sense to anyone else?
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Eh.....I get that this wasn't mean to be a perfect 'all's well that ends well' moment.

But Emma's 'healing', outside of Taylor/Ammy not playing her game (and thus, Emma realizing she's weak), has largely come from Yuuta and the Baachans (which, when you consider where her trauma originates insofar as the ABB involvement, is pretty crazy, all things considered) - and they're directly involved in Taylor's orbit.

Emma not being strong enough to say "I'm" the one clinging to the past, I hate myself, etc....isn't necessarily bad for her development, but it doesn't feel like....'enough' of a break, especially if this is it, for her?

Either Emma goes off to therapy on her own off-screen (which is possible, albeit unsatisfying, given the themes of the work), and/or she stays in Taylor's orbit.

....there's probably an philosophical argument that could be made on why One Lee gets 'redeemed' (of a sort), and Emma hasn't had that same benefit of Ammy's intervention, but probably getting a bit off-topic.

I'm not saying I don't see the intent (especially given the author post above), but....I don't (personally) think it necessarily connects all the dots super well, for how 'finished-for now' it seems to intend to be regarding the Emma situation (from Taylor's perspective, at least)
 
Yeah, the entire time I was reading Emma's bit in the last chapter I kept 'hearing' her saying "I hate myself", "I ruin everything I touch", and so forth. But she's not brave enough to face her fears on her own, so Emma projected all her self doubt and self hate onto Taylor.
 
defenestrator said:
Since no one seems to be asking it, what's with the pearl necklace @Datcord is it a sex thing it's probably a sex thing
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It's a sex thing. Or, if certain former Presidents are to be believed, it's NOT a sex thing.

Vicjer said:
… You should probably see a doctor. There's something seriously wrong with your anatomy.

Also because of all the scotch, but mostly the heart-dick thing.:V
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*monocle pops* It's an SAO:Abridged reference, you uncultured swine!
 
FaerieKnight79 said:
, "I ruin everything I touch", and so forth. But she's not brave enough to face her fears on her own, so Emma projected all her self doubt and self hate onto Taylor.
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Yeah...I'd almost think that if Emma COULD get to saying those words about herself (and then avoid the depression spiral that goes along with it), and relay that to Taylor, there could be some actual moves towards redemption.....

But Taylor seems to indicate that wound is finally 'scarred', i.e. no longer bleeding/festering - given the 'held out her hand one last time' and 'got to say goodbye' framing of the two's interaction, it seems rather....final.

With 'just' Yuuta or the Baachans, I don't know if I can see Emma breaking past that self-hate/doubt into the next step.....especially if it's all off-screen, when Ammy has been the main source of 'good things/better things' thus far in the story.
 
I am happy with Emma's ending, I just can't really understand what kind of person would let someone back after desecrating and betraying everything that their friendship stood for, and using it to torture for a year and a half.

Forgiveness and forgetting is the best policy. As they say hatred is not the opposite of love, it is indifference, forgetting emma wiht a lightened heart is the best one can do.
 
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