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False. What happens is that Madoka gains confidence and purpose from becoming a magical girl, something which is denied to her when Homura doesn't allow her to become a magical girl.
Confringentur, Mk.2; a Madoka Magica / Fate/Stay Night crossover
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Oh, sorry, after double checking apparently that only happens in Rebellion after Homura rewrites reality. Huh. Outside of that, yeah you're right.
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So, does this change your perception of Haman's vote, or do you still plan to redo yours at some point?
WanderingTwix
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You've gone too far, Enetious! Drunk on your powers as He who crafts Votes, you have turned to the Dark Side!
But yeah, even I can't bother to read that word for word.
Enetious' is too long and yeah, the attempts at levity are really weird, I agree with Haman. But I also agree with Enetious that Haman's vote is too short and to-the-point. SVS could of just done Haman's vote by stating the facts. We need to meet in the middle.
I do agree that Homura does have a lot of trauma, and that she's gonna have some kind of breakdown (to whatever degree). Remember that even up to now, Homura has always had these thoughts at the back of her head in italics which, while kind of a pain for me to find and quote right now, show that Homura still isn't super confident in the success of this timeline. She wants to believe, but all those previous timelines have broken her, even if this timeline has given her a ray of hope that teeters between following or not. I'm sure that she believes that it's the best shot she's ever had, but she doesn't know if that's enough. She may seem better this time around (and she is), but it's still hiding her fractured self.
And that's without even getting into Homura revealing that she basically lives for Madoka, so yeah. It's gonna be a bit messy.
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The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some would consider to be unnatural.
And I suppose it would be too much to ask of you to help facilitate this meeting in the middle, wouldn't it? Do you do it because you assume other people will craft a vote for you, or because you can't see your keyboard to type up a vote on account of wearing two eyepatches?
Maybe you'd like to help facilitate the cleanup, then. I'm always saying how much better things would be with more voter participation; well, now's your chance.
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WanderingTwix
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I'm a beta. I don't create; I feedback. I'm the one to bounce ideas off of.
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How can you be a messiah if you can't see? Take off those damn eyepatches already.I'm a beta. I don't create; I feedback. I'm the one to bounce ideas off of.I. I. This sounds like a messiah speech.Enetious is the alpha. And also, Enetious has yet to remake his vote.
WanderingTwix
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Never! Then all my previous posts alluding to my eyepatches (and yours) wouldn't make sense anymore!
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[] Plan Get Your Mind Out Of The Truth About Timelines
-[] Telepathically inform Kirika that you'll be talking to your girlfriend in time-stop about something very important and personal between them, and that you'd appreciate it if she let you be without eavesdropping or anything, as her of all people should sympathize with you wanting to tell your loved one something in confidence. You just really don't want the Incubator to overhear it as it could use it to emotionally manipulate you, since the Incubator has been hiding around and stalking Madoka for quite some time which is why you need the anti-Incubator charm from Oriko sometime in the future. Thank her for her understanding.
-[] Get sat comfortably with Madoka on her bed and prepare to tell her the truth, if she allows you to
--[] Bring Madoka into time-stop (by holding her hand with the one you have your Soul Gem on), definitively informing her that this is about Puella Magi business, and that you don't want the Incubator to overhear it since the anti-Incubator charm isn't complete yet
---[] Ask her if she feels she's prepared to hear this (it's your last and most important secret), as you don't want to potentially damage their relationship or scare her unnecessarily as you fear you did when you told her about Puella Magi and the Incubator; reassure her that this secret mostly refers to your "origin story", not their current relationship or anything like that, so she shouldn't feel pressured to choose to hear about it if she really doesn't want to
-[] If she chooses to hear you out, hand her an empty Grief Seed "just in case" (and make sure your Soul Gem is completely clean before proceeding), pause for a moment and then tell her that your wish to become a Puella Magi was, word for word as you could never forget it, "I want to redo my first encounter with Kaname-san. But this time, instead of her protecting me, I want to become strong enough to protect her!" It's why your secondary ability as a Puella Magi is to stop time... and why your primary ability is to go back in time to when it all started.
--[] Close your eyes and steady your breathing for a few moments as you await Madoka's initial response. Be prepared to stop to give Madoka a moment if she feels she needs it.
---[] The reason you made that wish is because something really bad happened to Madoka - who was a Puella Magi at the time in a reversal of roles between them - and their friends, all of whom attempted to fight off a super-Witch on the level of Elsa Maria except with less invulnerability and more wanton destruction. And so you went back to the start of it all, just before you first met Madoka, and that time you worked together with Madoka as Puella Magi, but when it came time to face off against that super-Witch again, a Witch named Walpurgisnacht, Madoka used up so much magical energy that the worst possible thing that could happen to a Puella Magi, happened.
----[] Push on through it and continue, as you need to get through this... So you went back in time again and tried to warn everyone, but no one would believe you, and so tragedy struck again and again and again. And every time it was worse, as whatever you were doing was making Madoka more and more powerful, somehow never enough to defeat Walpurgisnacht without something happening to her, and always to the detriment of more and more people whenever the worst case scenario happens to Madoka. The main reason why you never want Madoka to contract is because in a past timeline, the Madoka of that timeline asked you and made you promise to go back and make sure that she never becomes a Puella Magi.
-----[] You've seen the worst happen to everyone you've cared about over and over again, not just Madoka. Whenever Sayaka becomes a Puella Magi she deals with it the worst out of all of them, and the worst thing that could happen to a Puella Magi almost always happens to her. Hitomi tends to always run into at least one Witch every timeline, and sometimes she isn't saved in time. Whenever Madoka isn't a Puella Magi Mami often doesn't make it past the first week or two without your intervention. Kyoko goes out in a variety of ways, sometimes to infighting, sometimes to rival Puella Magi, sometimes to the thing that is no longer Sayaka. Oriko and Kirika almost always either don't contract, or they meet their end by your hands whenever they try to take out Madoka to save the world. You just can't handle the pain of it all anymore...
-[] Assuming things turn out well enough that you can still talk, tell Madoka about the changes across timelines, and how Servants were never a thing before this timeline, and how Oriko and Kirika only occasionally contract to become Puella Magi which didn't happen in the original one. If she wants/needs proof of your claims, show her photos stored in your shield of them in chronological order.
In the wise words of Frankenstein's artificial lifeform, "Uhn uhn".
Homura's Soul Gem should take a while to completely blacken, as an example in canon would be Mami when she found out the truth about Puella Magi and when crazy killing other Puella Magi, so she shouldn't suddenly Witch-out without our know-how, and that even if Madoka waits till the end she should still be able to cleanse Homura's Soul Gem if need be. Gotta admit I warmed up to Haman's whole Emotional Breakdown!Homura bit, I just made it a bit more PG as to not scare Madoka so much that she can ignore Homura's breakdown (and the fact that Homura would never admit to herself that Madoka is truly dead without really wanting to Witch out even faster), and had Homura give Madoka a chance to back out along with more precautions and elaborations set into place a la my original vote.
Also hope I got the Grief spiral across alright as Homura gets punted by all the things she's repressed over the years - it turns out that repression isn't always the safest of coping mechanisms if it ever comes undone, who knew? If Madoka just says no to the conversation, then they don't have the conversation and they go back out to converse with everyone, I guess; Homura's not gonna force the issue on Madoka.
Anyone feel free to poke holes in this revised amalgamation of a vote, or edit/revise it into something better, if you have any ideas; not totally 100% confident in this vote. Sorry SVS if it's still too long, feel free to use this vote as a rough guideline if it goes through as is in such a case.
-[] Telepathically inform Kirika that you'll be talking to your girlfriend in time-stop about something very important and personal between them, and that you'd appreciate it if she let you be without eavesdropping or anything, as her of all people should sympathize with you wanting to tell your loved one something in confidence. You just really don't want the Incubator to overhear it as it could use it to emotionally manipulate you, since the Incubator has been hiding around and stalking Madoka for quite some time which is why you need the anti-Incubator charm from Oriko sometime in the future. Thank her for her understanding.
-[] Get sat comfortably with Madoka on her bed and prepare to tell her the truth, if she allows you to
--[] Bring Madoka into time-stop (by holding her hand with the one you have your Soul Gem on), definitively informing her that this is about Puella Magi business, and that you don't want the Incubator to overhear it since the anti-Incubator charm isn't complete yet
---[] Ask her if she feels she's prepared to hear this (it's your last and most important secret), as you don't want to potentially damage their relationship or scare her unnecessarily as you fear you did when you told her about Puella Magi and the Incubator; reassure her that this secret mostly refers to your "origin story", not their current relationship or anything like that, so she shouldn't feel pressured to choose to hear about it if she really doesn't want to
-[] If she chooses to hear you out, hand her an empty Grief Seed "just in case" (and make sure your Soul Gem is completely clean before proceeding), pause for a moment and then tell her that your wish to become a Puella Magi was, word for word as you could never forget it, "I want to redo my first encounter with Kaname-san. But this time, instead of her protecting me, I want to become strong enough to protect her!" It's why your secondary ability as a Puella Magi is to stop time... and why your primary ability is to go back in time to when it all started.
--[] Close your eyes and steady your breathing for a few moments as you await Madoka's initial response. Be prepared to stop to give Madoka a moment if she feels she needs it.
---[] The reason you made that wish is because something really bad happened to Madoka - who was a Puella Magi at the time in a reversal of roles between them - and their friends, all of whom attempted to fight off a super-Witch on the level of Elsa Maria except with less invulnerability and more wanton destruction. And so you went back to the start of it all, just before you first met Madoka, and that time you worked together with Madoka as Puella Magi, but when it came time to face off against that super-Witch again, a Witch named Walpurgisnacht, Madoka used up so much magical energy that the worst possible thing that could happen to a Puella Magi, happened.
----[] Push on through it and continue, as you need to get through this... So you went back in time again and tried to warn everyone, but no one would believe you, and so tragedy struck again and again and again. And every time it was worse, as whatever you were doing was making Madoka more and more powerful, somehow never enough to defeat Walpurgisnacht without something happening to her, and always to the detriment of more and more people whenever the worst case scenario happens to Madoka. The main reason why you never want Madoka to contract is because in a past timeline, the Madoka of that timeline asked you and made you promise to go back and make sure that she never becomes a Puella Magi.
-----[] You've seen the worst happen to everyone you've cared about over and over again, not just Madoka. Whenever Sayaka becomes a Puella Magi she deals with it the worst out of all of them, and the worst thing that could happen to a Puella Magi almost always happens to her. Hitomi tends to always run into at least one Witch every timeline, and sometimes she isn't saved in time. Whenever Madoka isn't a Puella Magi Mami often doesn't make it past the first week or two without your intervention. Kyoko goes out in a variety of ways, sometimes to infighting, sometimes to rival Puella Magi, sometimes to the thing that is no longer Sayaka. Oriko and Kirika almost always either don't contract, or they meet their end by your hands whenever they try to take out Madoka to save the world. You just can't handle the pain of it all anymore...
-[] Assuming things turn out well enough that you can still talk, tell Madoka about the changes across timelines, and how Servants were never a thing before this timeline, and how Oriko and Kirika only occasionally contract to become Puella Magi which didn't happen in the original one. If she wants/needs proof of your claims, show her photos stored in your shield of them in chronological order.
In the wise words of Frankenstein's artificial lifeform, "Uhn uhn".
Homura's Soul Gem should take a while to completely blacken, as an example in canon would be Mami when she found out the truth about Puella Magi and when crazy killing other Puella Magi, so she shouldn't suddenly Witch-out without our know-how, and that even if Madoka waits till the end she should still be able to cleanse Homura's Soul Gem if need be. Gotta admit I warmed up to Haman's whole Emotional Breakdown!Homura bit, I just made it a bit more PG as to not scare Madoka so much that she can ignore Homura's breakdown (and the fact that Homura would never admit to herself that Madoka is truly dead without really wanting to Witch out even faster), and had Homura give Madoka a chance to back out along with more precautions and elaborations set into place a la my original vote.
Also hope I got the Grief spiral across alright as Homura gets punted by all the things she's repressed over the years - it turns out that repression isn't always the safest of coping mechanisms if it ever comes undone, who knew? If Madoka just says no to the conversation, then they don't have the conversation and they go back out to converse with everyone, I guess; Homura's not gonna force the issue on Madoka.
Anyone feel free to poke holes in this revised amalgamation of a vote, or edit/revise it into something better, if you have any ideas; not totally 100% confident in this vote. Sorry SVS if it's still too long, feel free to use this vote as a rough guideline if it goes through as is in such a case.
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More precisely, Madoka gains confidence and purpose from making a difference, big or small.
As her potential rose over loops the Incubator was going to attempt to contract for more and more flimsy reasons as the return on investment rose.
Homura just systematically removed opportunities in an effort to prevent her contracting, which meant she just felt more and more useless every loop, because the Incubator would show up anytime anywhere, and Homura effectively removed Madoka's ability to DO anything at all that would put her at risk or help someone. For an entire month.
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Question- Is it worse for Kyubey to hear this, or Kirika? Because she's in the house too, and if we go and stop time, she'll be left bored, and may end up wandering in on us.
I would cut that part out, and leave the scripting of whatever Grief spiral we may or may not go into up to me. It's fine if you think there's a part we should be getting emotional over, but there's no need to lay out directions for a pre-planned Grief spiral.
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Oh yeeeaaah, we - and by extension Homura - tend to forget about Kirika a lot, don't we? Well, it's definitely worse for Kyuubey to hear it than Kirika, so I'll include something to maybe encourage Kirika to let them have this moment (and if she ends up spying on them despite that, then we'll come to that, not to mention that it'd be really interesting to see how Kirika reacts to knowing about it what-with their newfound pseudo-sisterhood, and how she could possibly sympathize since she's literally full of love and this is about Homura losing the one she loves over and over again).
Donezo.
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We forgot about her so much she was practically non-engaged for the entirety of the evening.
Also, this is a really stupid thing to nitpick, but in Mary Shelley's original short story, Adam is actually quite the articulate fellow.
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Yeah, I know, I read it. The thing is is that Fran is the result of Victor Frankenstein trying to make Eve first so that she could give birth to Adam, as opposed to trying to make Adam first, so they're two very different entities.
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I'll be honest, Fran left such a non-impression on me that I completely forgot she existed until you mentioned her just now.
That awkward moment where you want to join in on the discussion, but you now it's just going to contribute to a derail.
[jk] Tie up Kirika after you've stopped time so she wouldn't stumble onto yourventing heartfelt confession.
Honestly, I don't really care one way or the other if Kirika walks in on Homura or not.
[jk] Tie up Kirika after you've stopped time so she wouldn't stumble onto your
Honestly, I don't really care one way or the other if Kirika walks in on Homura or not.
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So do it regardless. We'll come to a conclusion one way or another; I'd rather see more contribution than for things to be streamlined or for everyone else to just rubber-stamp one person's vote without any discussion.
WanderingTwix
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Again, PMMM noobie here, but does Homura really know about this? Honest question.
Is that a PMMM thing, or a quest thing I've forgotten about?
Thinking about it, this kinda is venting.
[X] Plan Get Your Mind Out Of The Truth About Timelines
WanderingTwix
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Madoka approaches Assassin in anger for hugging Homura out of nowhere, dies from touching her, Homura witches out.
BAD END
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Yep. It's pretty obvious when Madoka is literally getting stronger whenever she's a Puella Magi as timelines go on, and when her Witch gets stronger as a consequence. Madoka's Witch used to be as powerful as an ordinary if strong Witch, whereas currently her Witch could kill all life on Earth.
A PMMM thing. Was shown during the 'past Homura iterations' flashback in the anime.
IIRC, it was less 'kill all life on earth' and 'more the earth itself gets consumed by her barrier.'
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To the best of my remembering, she does not know this in a quantifiable sense. Enetious-
has a point about Madoka becoming observably stronger as a PM as timelines go on, but Homura doesn't have actual numbers or hard evidence to back the claim up that Puella Magi Madoka Magica is getting measurably stronger.
This one is canon. The last Moemura timeline, Madoka asked Homura to prevent the Madokas after her from ever making their contracts. Then Homura had to shoot Madoka's Soul Gem to prevent her from becoming a witch.
I actually have an ED picked out already for if we get the Bad End.
This is correct, but Kyubey is the one that says Madoka's witch could end all life in earth. However, when saying that, Kyubey didn't know that Gretchen's labyrinth is basically Instrumentality and thus is only going off of whatever quantifiable data it has access to.
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Ehh... I'm sticking with simple explanations and not involving timestop. Kuybey probably already knows about our time travel, since he did in canon. Kirika is the more unpredictable reaction I think.
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I think you might be underestimating what Kyuubey could do and how it would react when this information is brought to its attention just a tad bit. In fact, it's highly likely that Kyuubey would try and take advantage of the fact that Homura's actively time-looping in order to continually harvest Puella Magi/Witches/Grief by using some method to kidnap and hitch a ride with Homura and forcing them into future loops (Kyuubey wasn't aware of the sheer scope of it in canon, unlike when he hears about it from Homura assuming they don't time-stop).
Have you not seen Rebellion, which is a prime example of what the Incubator race is capable of when it comes to manipulating Puella Magi past mere words? The fact that somehow in Rebellion Kyuubey managed to kidnap Homura in the first place without her having any chance of realizing it at all, while hooking her up to a magical machine thing of the Incubator's own creation in order to simulate that whole scenario in her mind should be indicators that they could almost certainly achieve the feat I previously mentioned given enough time and resources, considering the breadth of knowledge and technology the Incubator race likely has access to.