Clarisse Quest [now in Part II, Revolutionary Girl Clarisse] (a PMMM/TTS quest)

[The Narrator]

[P] I wish to control grief! My own! That of others! The grief of the Witches! All of it!

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I'm guessing that Clarisse does not have the Madokami-esque potential that would be required to pull a Sabrina and wish away Grief cleansing scarcity.

Mostly I wanted to say this update was absolutely amazing. Above and beyond.

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Seconded. This update was a fantastic character piece.

 

[Salbazier]

We still have Beatrice? Excellent.

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I keep thinking of another Beatrice

 

[Itaywex]

My heart, Itaywex
You can't just start a post like that
I trusted you :O

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You can trust me, but can we trust you?

How do you know that your thought pattern hasn't been compromised by becoming a human, subroutine!?

Seriously, though. I have said it multiple times: Having our own body compromises our ability to fulfil our primary directive (which I don't think we should change).

The recent post has been an absolute proof of that, and it's a problem I'd like to tackle directly.

Yes, my solution is extreme, but I also posted a variety of other options that also directly tackle that issue, and not leave it for the future.

Because even not making a decision is a decision, and when it's something as serious as "who we want to be" we should face it head on instead of trying not to think about it (which is a very human thing to do, but I'd like to remind you that we aren't human. At least, we aren't supposed to be).

Becoming a (sort of) human has compromised our ability to fulfil our prime directive (which is protecting and aiding Ryouko).

We have several options to handle this conflict:

Mundane options:
[ ] Live on with that contradiction, attempting to both live for yourself and for Ryouko.
[ ] Change your standard behaviour from now on
-[ ] At all times have at least 50% of your processing power focusing on Ryouko and acting out your tactical computer duties
-[ ] Start a subroutine that examines your own behaviour and notified you when your decision making process is compromised by your human body and thoughts
-[ ] Make sure to activate emotion suppression mode on your human body if you ever think it compromises your decision process


Wish options:
[ ] Make a wish
-[ ] "I want to become a real girl!"
-[ ] "I want to protect and help Ryouko without doubt in my heart"
-[ ] "I want two of me to exist. One for Ryouko, and one for myself"


The extreme mundane options:
[X] Kill yourself
[ ] Ask Ryouko to tear out and destroy the parts of Clarisse that are within her body
-[ ] Nanami can create a new tactical computer for Ryouko

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[Vyslanté]

AAAAAAAAAAAH
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

And I'm still as confused as what the Thing exactly is.

 

[Abao]

[troll] Be Sublime and Merciful and WISH "I want to erase all [insert name here] before they are even born. I will erase every single [insert name here] in every universe, past and future with my own hands...I don't care what you call it. All those human who held onto their hopes and fought against [insert name here] I don't want to see them cry. I want them to stay smiling until the end. If any rule or law stands in my way I will destroy it. I will rewrite it. That is my prayer. That is my wish. Now grant it, Incubator!"
Incubators or Cephalopods...Decisions, decisions......

[X] Don't kill QB.

It's cathartic, but ultimately useless while also making an enemy out of the QB collective. They treat humans like tools, not enemies, so they do nothing more than extract the usefulness from humans by contracting them. They also would protect their operation by eliminating opposing factors if they become bothersome enough, don't give them reason to treat us as enemies.

[X] Plan Itaywex

I'd rather see Clarisse blunder through the quest as Ryouko's TAC (!canonClarisse) or a full human (OC) than make her way through as a human pretending to be a TAC(awkward mix of two). Just fix our priorities soon.
Edit: changed my wording a bit. Gave plan !HumanClarisse more thoughts and find it acceptable

 

[Itaywex]

[X] Plan Itaywax

I'd rather see Clarisse blunder through the quest as Ryouko's TAC than plot-savvy her way through as an OC human. Even then there's also no guarantee that it'll be worse if we kill/surpress/ignor the human half. We don't have to totally exorcise !humanClarisse, just let enough through to keep things ineresting and have a different perspective, but it should at least take the back seat.

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You are aware that my plan is "kill ourselves", right? (Which is pretty much exorcising human Clarisse)

I have proposed some alternatives, though.

I think that what you might be talking about is this:
[ ] Change your standard behaviour from now on
-[ ] At all times have at least 50% of your processing power focusing on Ryouko and acting out your tactical computer duties
-[ ] Start a subroutine that examines your own behaviour and notified you when your decision making process is compromised by your human body and thoughts
-[ ] Make sure to activate emotion suppression mode on your human body if you ever think it compromises your decision process

 

[The Narrator]

"Kill yourself for Ryouko's sake" does not seem like a logical course of action. You don't think that having her new-found sister commit suicide would be traumatic for Ryouko? That it wouldn't create huge problems for her, the rest of the Shizuki family, and our friends? That it won't attract police attention at a time when we're trying to deflect it?

Whether you like it or not, Clarisse Shizuki exists now and cannot be unpersoned.



[x] DO NOT make a wish or contract.
[x] DO NOT engage in any form of self-harm.

 

[Abao]

You are aware that my plan is "kill ourselves", right? (Which is pretty much exorcising human Clarisse)

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While I personally support this more than all the alternatives, I don't think it will pass the vote. It'd be nice derail whatever plans the powers that be had for letting a no name girl revive multiple people AND bring future tech about. Sounds like more karma than she should have.

Having an !OC!HumanClarisse AND a !CanonClarisse both at the same time would still be nice as they each have thier priorities.
50% processing power is basically the same as seperating them, just without physical seperation and constant communication. It's not my first choice though.

-[ ] Start a subroutine that examines your own behaviour and notified you when your decision making process is compromised by your human body and thoughts
-[ ] Make sure to activate emotion suppression mode on your human body if you ever think it compromises your decision process

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These two are basically "Ryouko comes first", so !canonClarisse.

 

[Salbazier]

Killing ourself also don't solve the problem. It may lessen the problem, as we were then would not have those neurotransmitters and stuffs, and there wouldn't be romance issue with Kyouko but we are essentially still Clarisse who are bound to Ryouko and that's bond is the actually the source of the problem here. Being embodied just excarbate/bringing it to the fore.

If we kill our (human) self? We are still aware of those feelings, of those thoughts and conclusions. It will continue to haunt us. And worse, Ryouko will now knows it. To realize that she is, alebit innocently, being party of causing us stress so hard to the point of driving us into suicide .... that's won't do good at all for her mental health, with all the implications that entails.

No, if we are going to stay true to our primary purpose, namely taking care of Ryouko's well being - and even with all the issues we are having with that I believe the fulfillment of that directive is still remain, and will always be, of paramount importance to Clarisse - then we should not kill our (human) self. It does solve the problem enough, and it create new ones that could well be more harmful.

 

[PlanckConstant]

[X] NOT contract
[X] Tell ryouko to secure the cubes and ribbon THEN come outside to scare off QB
[X] Talk to ryouko about our identity crisis.

For now, we still have other things to get done, we just need to worry about QB for now.

And incase it wasnt clear
[X] NOT kill ourselfs

 

[Vyslanté]

Right.

[X] DO NOT HARM OURSELVES
[X] PlanckConstant

 

[Itaywex]

[X] NOT contract
[X] Tell ryouko to secure the cubes and ribbon THEN come outside to scare off QB
[X] Talk to ryouko about our identity crisis.

For now, we still have other things to get done, we just need to worry about QB for now.

And incase it wasnt clear
[X] NOT kill ourselfs

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You are aware that "killing yourself" is a mutually exclusive vote, right? Voting for anything else means that you don't want to do that.

Wo adding a [] DO NOT clause is like trying to vote twice.
(Not that I think you did that on purpose, just wanted to make sure that it's clear).

 

[Vyslanté]

You are aware that "killing yourself" is a mutually exclusive vote, right? Voting for anything else means that you don't want to do that.

Wo adding a [] DO NOT clause is like trying to vote twice.
(Not that I think you did that on purpose, just wanted to make sure that it's clear).

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We think it's such a bad idea that we're voting several times against it

 

[Salbazier]

What's Nanami suit color again btw?

 

[PlanckConstant]

You are aware that "killing yourself" is a mutually exclusive vote, right? Voting for anything else means that you don't want to do that.

Wo adding a [] DO NOT clause is like trying to vote twice.
(Not that I think you did that on purpose, just wanted to make sure that it's clear).

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I am making my vote make plans that are not mine more likely then that one by explicitly using a NOT there.

 

[Itaywex]

I am making my vote make plans that are not mine more likely then that one by explicitly using a NOT there.

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Ah, I see, that explains it.

 

[tomoyo]

<Profane noise>

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... but why would you make a profane noise while talking about a nice person?

[X] Wish that you could keep Ryoko and friends happy and safe from all threats past, present, future, and outside and that we could bring them home and back.

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Pragmatic!

Becoming a (sort of) human has compromised our ability to fulfil our prime directive (which is protecting and aiding Ryouko).

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Remember that one of the things that makes governance AIs special is that they don't chase that prime directive quite so mindlessly as a paperclip robot.

If we destroy our body we will get back to Ryouko's body and everything will be alright with the world.

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"Everything will be alright with the world?" You'd still be a sentient being inside Ryouko, low-key enslaved to her will. While it's a comfortable position, isn't this situation still at odds with the ethical course of action? Doesn't the persistence of this state of affairs work to harm Ryouko?

Also, you would totally freak out Ryouko, and Kyouko, and all the other girls especially the ones with crushes on you. And attract police attention.
also this may be low-key incompatible with nanami's wish

we are essentially still Clarisse who are bound to Ryouko and that bond is the actually the source of the problem here. Being embodied just excerbates it and brings it to the fore.

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What Salbazier said.

I'm guessing that Clarisse does not have the Madokami-esque potential that would be required to pull a Sabrina and wish away Grief cleansing scarcity.

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Would it be scarier if I said she didn't, or that she did? No comment!

Pick different philosophers to turn to in our philosophical plight! Plato and Socrates -- there are more relevant and more polished systems of thought for identity and bioethics even in 2011, never mind the 25th century.

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That's more a question of making a good long survey, going back to the beginnings of the discipline — of ethics, quite ignoring identity — and, to be certain, one would hardly stop there.

Is this an omake? Because if so YES and if not NOOO

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It's not an omake.

We still have Beatrice? Excellent.

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Beatrice does to vanish after being unattended a while but this was quite recent so she's probably still there but
BEATRICE IS A DANGEROUS WEAPON THINK OF THE RISKS AND THE PROPERTY DAMAGE

I keep thinking of another Beatrice

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What's Nanami suit color again btw?

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It's like in the chats. Nanami. Contrast: Kyouko.

We think it's such a bad idea that we're voting several times against it

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Vote early, vote often >.>

 

[Itaywex]

Remember that one of the things that makes governance AIs special is that they don't chase that prime directive mindlessly like a paperclip robot.

"Everything will be alright with the world?" You'd still be a sentient being inside Ryouko, low-key enslaved to her will. While it's a comfortable position, isn't this situation still at odds with the ethical course of action? Doesn't the persistence of this state of affairs work to harm Ryouko?

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I already considered all of that, and I do think that losing our human body is the right direction.

I'd rather not go for something that excessive, but I'm unsure if we will get to revisit this issue (which I've been talking for weeks about) anytime soon.

Anyway, this is a very good point, as well.

Also, you would totally freak out Ryouko, and Kyouko, and all the other girls especially the ones with crushes on you.

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Taking that into account:

[X] Change your standard behaviour from now on to focus more on fulfilling your role as Ryouko's TacComp
-[X] At all times have at least 50% of your processing power focusing on Ryouko and acting out your tactical computer duties
-[X] Start a subroutine that examines your own behaviour and notified you when your decision making process is compromised by your human body and thoughts
-[X] Make sure to activate emotion suppression mode on your human body if you ever think it compromises your decision making process

Tagging people who showed interest in my plan:
@Abao, @Grey John, @Salbazier, @Nolrai, @AlphaDelta

 

[NHO]

[X] DO NOT HARM OURSELVES
[X] PlanckConstant

 

[Crasian01]

I already considered all of that, and I do think that losing our human body is the right direction.

I'd rather not go for something that excessive, but I'm unsure if we will get to revisit this issue (which I've been talking for weeks about) anytime soon.

Anyway, this is a very good point, as well.


Taking that into account:

[X] Change your standard behaviour from now on to focus more on fulfilling your role as Ryouko's TacComp
-[X] At all times have at least 50% of your processing power focusing on Ryouko and acting out your tactical computer duties
-[X] Start a subroutine that examines your own behaviour and notified you when your decision making process is compromised by your human body and thoughts
-[X] Make sure to activate emotion suppression mode on your human body if you ever think it compromises your decision making process

Tagging people who showed interest in my plan:
@Abao, @Grey John, @Salbazier, @Nolrai, @AlphaDelta

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I don't think you need to more than the last two bullet points in your vote. The second bullet point is somewhat redundant, and the first is just a heading.

 

[Itaywex]

I don't think you need to more than the last two bullet points in your vote. The second bullet point is somewhat redundant, and the first is just a heading.

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Fair enough.

[X] Change your standard behaviour from now on to focus more on fulfilling your role as Ryouko's TacComp
-[X] Start a subroutine that examines your own behaviour and notified you when your decision making process is compromised by your human body and thoughts
-[X] Make sure to activate emotion suppression mode on your human body if you ever think it compromises your decision making process

 

[The Narrator]

[x] DO NOT make a wish or contract.
[x] DO NOT harm yourself.
[x] Signal Ryouko that Kyubey is here and what he's asking about.
-[x] She should hide the cubes and ribbon.
-[x] Help, please. He's freaking you out. Make him go away.
[x] Talk to Ryouko about the identity crisis you just had.

 

[Grey John]

Ok, I may have panicked a little bit. @Itaywex might be right about me being defective. Let me adjust my vote:

[x] Breathe. We're being coerced.
[x] Link back up with Ryouko immediately and keep her informed.
[x] Call for an emergency strategy meeting, to be held without delay.
[x] Don't make decisions about who and why we are yet.
[x] Still looking forward to that movie night.

A wish is a personal decision, and we get the final and only say in whether we make a wish and what we wish for. That said, we're not quite ourselves right now and the denizens of #Fanclub seem awfully good at brainstorming.
I've been wondering, what is this a fan club to? Ryouko? Clarisse? Magical girls in general? Futuristic technology? Do they really still use hashtags in the 25th Century, or did they needlessly force it into the channel name?

I keep thinking of another Beatrice

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I keep thinking of Beatrice the dog from Kenkyo, Kenjitsu and it's really not helping things make sense. XD

That's more a question of making a good long survey, going back to the beginnings of the discipline — of ethics, quite ignoring identity — and, to be certain, one would hardly stop there.

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My understanding is that these particular philosophers studied virtue ethics. Which I love, but doesn't seem very relevant to our problems.
If we're going back to the beginnings of relevant ethics, how about some nice Mill?
I realize I'm being annoyingly picky but I think it's actually relevant to the story, since it seems we're pretty focused on the implications of normative ethics on our existence and what we should do about it.

It's not an omake.

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Then NOOOOOOOOO

 

[tomoyo]

I've been wondering, what is this a fan club to? Ryouko? Clarisse? Magical girls in general? Futuristic technology? Do they really still use hashtags in the 25th Century, or did they needlessly force it into the channel name?

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At a guess, it's to magical girls in general, but more specifically in practice would mean Ryouko, Nanami, Homura, and you. (And you're involved with "magical girls" in a way #fanclub members presently aren't.) The octothorpe is easily recognizable as an archaic formulation. What's a hashtag?

A wish is a personal decision, and we get the final and only say in whether we make a wish and what we wish for. That said, we're not quite ourselves right now and the denizens of #Fanclub seem awfully good at brainstorming.

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<Madoka> You should wish for world peace!!!

Then NOOOOOOOOO

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but but but but but... okay fine then I'll vote for it! mwuahahahahahahhahahaha you can't stop me

[x] prepare to ask for a wish!
-[x] wish to do the thing

 

[Vyslanté]

-[ ] Make sure to activate emotion suppression mode on your human body if you ever think it compromises your decision process

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Okay, I had not noticed that before, but maybe that can be a good idea?