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Clarisse Quest [now in Part II, Revolutionary Girl Clarisse] (a PMMM/TTS quest)

The correct way to fry an egg

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    Votes: 16 64.0%

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    Votes: 9 36.0%
  • Total voters
    25
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So speculation I gave in the Discord that I'm sharing here too:

In this updoot: Machine in the Ghost / a tac!Clarisse Quest (for To The Stars, a PMMM fanfic) - Sci-Fi | Page 97

Governance!Simona told us a long story about Homura torturing her with infinite time loops. It seemed weird and out of character for Homura, and seemed to contradict our knowledge of To The Stars continuity, so I wasn't sure what to make of it at the time but was suspicious.

In this updoot: Machine in the Ghost / a tac!Clarisse Quest (for To The Stars, a PMMM fanfic) - Sci-Fi | Page 188

Gretchen confirmed that Governance!Simona was the grief potato prototype.

My conclusion from this was that Simona's multiple time loop torture was actually just an experimental grief-harvesting simulation in which Simona was the grief potato.
 
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Do you mean that simona was a literal grief potato, like the ones on the ring-world that collected suffering, or do you mean that simona was a prototype that was like a grief potato that collects grief, but not an actual grief potato like on the ringworlds?

I think the distinction is a bit important
 
Before I head to sleep for the night, I'd like to add that I'm quite sorry to spring so many random new ideas on everyone partway through a vote cycle. We've had a very informative analysis of the foreshadowing I've been putting in since forever, and I don't want to prevent people from making use of it just because it's a doot or three before I had planned to make all these possibilities perfectly plain in the text.

AceJade said:
Thank you for clarifying!! In that case I have no idea what to do
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Well, if you want a shard of a soul that's guaranteed to be compatible with your magic, and is definitely available to you in the near future, there's always, ah, your own soul...

Thelxiope said:
I am going to take a moment to stop screaming internally and sulk at you for having this entire april fools thing I didn't know about and now need to exhaustively scour over thirty times for sekrits
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oh goddess, i'm just imagining you Googling and trying to interpret the offhanded Arthurian legend. be advised I actually wrote the first updoot months and months before CQ as a joke, but didn't end up having a good place to post it. It is going to have fewer secrets. As for the second half, well, you will of course not the obvious things like "smash the world's shell" — much more secret-dense but hopefully you'll find them mostly reinforcing the main quest.

(no seriously you did a very good job with that, I hadn't even remembered the poor lovebirds, I was just thinking of Ryouko feeling vaguely sorry for whatever birds the kitty might have eaten.)

Anyway so it integrates with the main quest here where you wake up in military lolita (I need to add a Previously marker. Soon™. I promise.) If you want the main-thread Utena references, though, those are elsewhere, mostly from Gretchen:

tomoyo said:
"A single organic engine. A perpetual motion machine. The torus continues into eternity, endlessly."
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Thelxiope said:
and don't think for a moment I didn't notice the ones you just posted.
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Oh. My real secret stash of sekrits is available in the future-past. For srsly.
(Not that you really really need them at this point. such infopost, wow.)
AceJade said:
The thing is, Tomoyo already explicitly rejected my concern that SE!Ryouko would take sides with Simona:
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Well, okay, let's try for an abundance of clarity over the matter here:
- Ryouko is not likely to fight against you on the drop of a hat just because any Simona asks her to.
- But if you just pull her into a witchfight against a Simona who does not look hideously distorted, without minimal concept of "what is witch" and why she would fight it, she's going to be very skeptical of fighting Simona as well.

Impstar said:
I think we should think about including Ryouko a little more than we currently are
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Well I mean if the alternative is people fighting over her future — indeed, what her personality should be — like she's an object who just happens to be in the same room... maybe?

RubberBandMan said:
Do you mean that simona was a literal grief potato, like the ones on the ring-world that collected suffering, or do you mean that simona was a prototype that was like a grief potato that collects grief, but not an actual grief potato like on the ringworlds?

I think the distinction is a bit important
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[✕] Make potato salad
 
RubberBandMan said:
Do you mean that simona was a literal grief potato, like the ones on the ring-world that collected suffering, or do you mean that simona was a prototype that was like a grief potato that collects grief, but not an actual grief potato like on the ringworlds?

I think the distinction is a bit important
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Yes to both questions, she is an actual grief potato and a prototype.

Gretchen explicitly said she was a prototype, I doubt they had a literal ringworld for her, those are for torturing trillions of people at the same time and if she's a prototype I assume she's one of only a handful so far. But she was very much a literal grief potato, or at least she was before whatever magic (Nanami's wish maybe???) wooshed her off to a completely different universe. Or at least that's my understanding of what Gretchen told us.
 
AceJade said:
Yes to both questions, she is an actual grief potato and a prototype.

Gretchen explicitly said she was a prototype, I doubt they had a literal ringworld for her, those are for torturing trillions of people at the same time and if she's a prototype I assume she's one of only a handful so far. But she was very much a literal grief potato, or at least she was before whatever magic (Nanami's wish maybe???) wooshed her off to a completely different universe. Or at least that's my understanding of what Gretchen told us.
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Note that, while Star Empire propaganda is possible, it certainly seems that Grief Potatoes are, in fact, some manner of plant that is grown on the Jupiter-Suffering-Engine:
tomoyo said:
You take a large but carefully measured sip, less interested in the alcohol and more in the spices: pungent compounds harvested from the leaves of grief potatoes. It's like concentrated magic, and it burns, a little; Ryouko likes her drinks strong.
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tomoyo said:
Well, okay, let's try for an abundance of clarity over the matter here:
- Ryouko is not likely to fight against you on the drop of a hat just because any Simona asks her to.
- But if you just pull her into a witchfight against a Simona who does not look hideously distorted, without minimal concept of "what is witch" and why she would fight it, she's going to be very skeptical of fighting Simona as well.
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Ty for clarifying! In that case my vote is the same, we're apparently fighting her to heal her anyway. If we're going to attempt to heal her, the main point of waking everyone up to fight is so Abraxas can't just effortlessly murder us while we try to heal her.

And for that, if she really is a witch, I assume Abraxas will start attacking the moment we wake everyone up (instead of following her demands to fix the paradox), so SE!Ryouko should help defend us from being instantly murdered with extreme prejudice.

[✕] Make potato salad
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If we want to make it a full salad we might need more Simonas.
Adhoc vote count started by AceJade on May 13, 2019 at 10:11 AM, finished with 4830 posts and 7 votes.
  • [X] Fight the paradox witch
    -[X] wake Nanami with handholding
    -[X] wake Kyouko with handholding
    -[X] use the star staff to fix the feathers in Simona's seed, extract if needed.
    [x]Let the paradox happen
    -[x]Foil Abraxas's plans
    [X] Attempt to reason out the current situation with the witch
    -[X] Try and see if she is a witch, or maybe witch kissed, or possessed by the grief seed you can see
    [X] Ask why we're being asked to help with the paradox issue, specifically. Paradox-avoidance isn't our typical duties, as far as we're aware.
    -[X] Confirm what actions caused the issue. From your understanding, the Star Empire was changed into this current world after it, in some way, blew up. A Ryouko intending to destroy it in the past seems entirely in line with what has already happened. If this is incorrect, could she explain what we have wrong? Our Ryouko is also likely to refuse being the star empire's chosen one and will, at this point, respond about the same as the Ryouko here. Why is one better then the other for paradox-avoidance?
    -[X] request information on other potential paradoxes and how to avoid them
    --[X] You understand that giving us information about some paradoxes may in fact cause them, she can leave that sort of information out
    -[X] ask more about America. There is a Simona there that seems to be living a normal life, was she and Ryouko supposed to live a happy life there, in contrast with the other Simona's and Ryouko's who have so much to do?
    [X] Neither confirm or deny paradox actions
    -[X] do ask about stealing a bit of Homura. Would she lose some of her magic powers or sense of self, or would it only be using some of her magic?
    -[X] Would it be possible to use our powers to send a message in the past to ourselves? Hypothetically.
    [X] If attacked, defend yourself with the ribbon, and try and wake up Nanami and Kyouko, and try and get Kirika to help. Try to avoid bringing Ryouko in, if she's not in danger.
    [X] Fight the paradox witch
    [x] Paradox yourself a compatible feather
    -[x] Implore aid in the 1980s
    --[x] Rely on Tomoyo's discretion
    [X] Fight the paradox witch
    -[X] wake Ryouko through your link to her
    -[X] wake Nanami with handholding
    -[X] wake Kyouko with handholding
    -[X] attempt to use the star staff to fix the feathers in Simona's seed, extract if needed.
    -[X] Contact Homura for help since she's immune to time stop (and fail)
    [x]Let the paradox happen
    -[x]Foil Abraxas's plans
    [x]Do NOT try to paradox ourselves a feather.
    [X] Fight the paradox witch
    -[X] Specifics undetermined plz refer to other votes
    [X] Apply feathery restoration magic to Abraxas from within yourself a compatible feather.
    -[x] Paradox yourself a compatible feather
    --[x] Implore aid in the 1980s
    ---[x] Rely on Tomoyo's discretion
    [x] Paradox yourself a compatible feather
    -[x] Implore aid in the 1980s
    --[x] Relay it via an Yukari / Hitomi ribbon-swap
    ---[x] Get it placed in the hair pin if possible
    [X] Fight the paradox witch
    -[X] wake Kyouko with handholding
    -[X] Find the feather
    -[X] use the star staff to fix the feathers in Simona's seed, extract if needed.
    [X] Remind Ryouko that we are trying to save everyone, so she does need to protect her world from annihilation and the incubators are trying to get all of humanities energy though her.
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So, now to work out how to do this. My plan of trying to save Simona via the star staff might be possible, but only if we don't end up in a coma. Ryouko would need to know what a witch is we can use her as explained by tomoyo. We don't really have time for that, as we are against a witch, it won't like us trying to get around it. This means we need a different method.

The idea of paradoxing a feather into our possession can work, but only if we have a rough way around of doing it. I think taking the Yukari / Hitomi link is the best way to obtain it, as we can send Hitomi back temporally to give the feather to Nadeshiko, explain it should be added to the hair pin as its a magic feather and its needed because time travel shenanigans. That leaves the feather in our hairpin and suddenly we have access to it and can now perform the trick with the star staff now without the need for Ryouko. This will however force us to obtain a feather latter on in the quest in order to have a feather in the first place, but this is all self-consistent. The person who has to donate a feather shouldn't be without their feather for too long either since it will be in our possession when we send the feather back.

[x] Paradox yourself a compatible feather
-[x] Implore aid in the 1980s
--[x] Relay it via an Yukari / Hitomi ribbon-swap
---[x] Get it placed in the hair pin if possible

[X] Fight the paradox witch
-[X] wake Kyouko with handholding
-[X] Find the feather
-[X] use the star staff to fix the feathers in Simona's seed, extract if needed.

[X] Remind Ryouko that we are trying to save everyone, so she does need to protect her world from annihilation and the incubators are trying to get all of humanities energy though her.
 
[1] Attempt to reason with the so-called witch, first
I'll attempt some of the proposals here, insofar as they don't interfere with getting into combat posture.
-[1] Examine alternative hypotheses for her state: witch kissed? possessed?
-[1] Ask why the witch wants us to help, ask for a model of reality, other interesting things
[0] Cooperate with the witch's attempts to resolve paradox
[4] Fight the witch
-[1] definitely without Ryouko, if we have to fight
-[1] with Ryouko, Nanami, Kyouko
-[1] with Nanami, Kyouko
-[1] with Kyouko only
=> [3] with Kyouko
(I guess you must like Kyouko or something)
-[5] use the star staff to fix the feathers in Simona's seed, extract if needed.
--[3] Paradox a feather from the 1980s
---[1] hide it in Papa's hairpin
---[2] rely on Tomoyo's discretion to make this possible

We'll postpone what we do about Ryouko and paradoxes afterwards.
 
I should note since "only Kyouko" is winning that if we don't wake up Nanami and SE!Ryouko, they'll be sitting ducks against Abraxas and Kyouko will have to protect all three of us single-handedly (while dragging around our much less superhuman body). That's a really heavy burden for a single magical girl.

Impstar said:
[X] Fight the paradox witch
-[X] wake Nanami with handholding
-[X] wake Kyouko with handholding
-[X] use the star staff to fix the feathers in Simona's seed, extract if needed.

[x]Let the paradox happen
-[x]Foil Abraxas's plans

We talked SE Ryouko into brainwashing herself (without that explicit intention though), let her go through with fixing her own world..
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Impstar since I see you're the Nanami/Kyouko vote:

Would you be willing to consider adding Ryouko? Kyouko's a melee fighter and Nanami's more of a ranged fighter, it'll be a bit hard for us to hold both their hands consistently in a fight. If we have Ryouko awake too to hold Nanami's hand that will make it easier.
 
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AceJade said:
I should note since "only Kyouko" is winning that if we don't wake up Nanami and SE!Ryouko, they'll be sitting ducks against Abraxas and Kyouko will have to protect all three of us single-handedly (while dragging around our much less superhuman body). That's a really heavy burden for a single magical girl.



Impstar since I see you're the Nanami/Kyouko vote:

Would you be willing to consider adding Ryouko? Kyouko's a melee fighter and Nanami's more of a ranged fighter, it'll be a bit hard for us to hold both their hands consistently in a fight. If we have Ryouko awake too to hold Nanami's hand that will make it easier.
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Added Ryouko. I'm worried that she's not actually going to join us as a fighter because we are kind of trying to beat up her old friend (sort of), but it's unlikely she'll turn against us as well.
 
Impstar said:
Added Ryouko. I'm worried that she's not actually going to join us as a fighter because we are kind of trying to beat up her old friend (sort of), but it's unlikely she'll turn against us as well.
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Yay!!!!!

I mean if we're using the star staff to heal Abraxas we won't necessarily be attacking her persay, just fighting to prevent ourselves from getting murdered, and I'm assuming at the very least SE!Ryouko will be willing to help us not be murdered.
 
Actually when rephrased the way Tomoyo said, I think Rubberbandman's "try to reason with her" approach is a really good idea; we can try to use it as a way to distract her while we move into combat posture, and in the ludicrously unlikely attempt that it works, it might even prevent a fight.

Also going to explicitly specific "focus on defense" for maximum plan compatibility with SE!Ryouko.

Hopefully my last vote revision:

[X] Fight the paradox witch (focusing on defense)
-[X] wake Ryouko through your link to her
-[X] wake Nanami with handholding
-[X] wake Kyouko with handholding
-[X] attempt to use the star staff to fix the feathers in Simona's seed, extract if needed.
-[X]Attempt to reason with Abraxas in a way that does not interfere with fighting/healing her, at the very least as a distraction while we move into combat posture.

[x]Let the paradox happen
-[x]Foil Abraxas's plans
 
So, I had an idea about using ours and kyouko's future marriage that everyone says will happen to link us so Kyouko gets dragged into time stop (my logic was that marriage is about when two become one (or it is when my brother and his wife want to save money on presents)).

But married couples have kids.

So...what are we naming our kids? This quest has time travel, it can't wait for us to actually get married.
 
PlanckConstant said:
So, I had an idea about using ours and kyouko's future marriage that everyone says will happen to link us so Kyouko gets dragged into time stop (my logic was that marriage is about when two become one (or it is when my brother and his wife want to save money on presents)).

But married couples have kids.

So...what are we naming our kids? This quest has time travel, it can't wait for us to actually get married.
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Firstborn named Momo. Secondborn named Ryouko.
 
AceJade said:
Then Kyoko gets two Sakura Momos for twice the happiness. ❤
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I note that if we go the other way, and Kyouko and the kids take our name, we have the problem of Ryouko duplication. This is problematic on its own, but also given the amount of time-travel and universe sheninaganery involved, we run the non-zero risk of our daughter Shizuki Ryouko actually just being our Ryouko all along.

Obviously the solution is for no one to take anyone's surname. We stay Shizuki Clarisse, Kyouko stays a Sakura, and the girls are Shizuki Momo and Sakura Ryouko.
 
PlanckConstant said:
I'm also going to say this is a terrible idea.

I propose finding a book of Japanese names and picking one at random which isn't the name of someone we know.
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What's the point of even choosing a name if we're going to use RNG? At that point we might as well let Tomoyo decide, at least they might pick something vaguely symbolic like an Utena reference instead of just using something completely random.

Thelxiope said:
I note that if we go the other way, and Kyouko and the kids take our name, we have the problem of Ryouko duplication. This is problematic on its own, but also given the amount of time-travel and universe sheninaganery involved, we run the non-zero risk of our daughter Shizuki Ryouko actually just being our Ryouko all along.

Obviously the solution is for no one to take anyone's surname. We stay Shizuki Clarisse, Kyouko stays a Sakura, and the girls are Shizuki Momo and Sakura Ryouko.
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I like this compromise proposal. ❤
Adhoc vote count started by AceJade on May 16, 2019 at 1:30 PM, finished with 4845 posts and 7 votes.
  • [X] Fight the paradox witch
    -[X] Ryouko
    -[X] wake Nanami with handholding
    -[X] wake Kyouko with handholding
    -[X] use the star staff to fix the feathers in Simona's seed, extract if needed.
    [x]Let the paradox happen
    -[x]Foil Abraxas's plans
    [X] Attempt to reason out the current situation with the witch
    -[X] Try and see if she is a witch, or maybe witch kissed, or possessed by the grief seed you can see
    [X] Ask why we're being asked to help with the paradox issue, specifically. Paradox-avoidance isn't our typical duties, as far as we're aware.
    -[X] Confirm what actions caused the issue. From your understanding, the Star Empire was changed into this current world after it, in some way, blew up. A Ryouko intending to destroy it in the past seems entirely in line with what has already happened. If this is incorrect, could she explain what we have wrong? Our Ryouko is also likely to refuse being the star empire's chosen one and will, at this point, respond about the same as the Ryouko here. Why is one better then the other for paradox-avoidance?
    -[X] request information on other potential paradoxes and how to avoid them
    --[X] You understand that giving us information about some paradoxes may in fact cause them, she can leave that sort of information out
    -[X] ask more about America. There is a Simona there that seems to be living a normal life, was she and Ryouko supposed to live a happy life there, in contrast with the other Simona's and Ryouko's who have so much to do?
    [X] Neither confirm or deny paradox actions
    -[X] do ask about stealing a bit of Homura. Would she lose some of her magic powers or sense of self, or would it only be using some of her magic?
    -[X] Would it be possible to use our powers to send a message in the past to ourselves? Hypothetically.
    [X] If attacked, defend yourself with the ribbon, and try and wake up Nanami and Kyouko, and try and get Kirika to help. Try to avoid bringing Ryouko in, if she's not in danger.
    [x] Paradox yourself a compatible feather
    -[x] Implore aid in the 1980s
    --[x] Rely on Tomoyo's discretion
    [X] Fight the paradox witch
    -[X] Specifics undetermined plz refer to other votes
    [X] Apply feathery restoration magic to Abraxas from within yourself a compatible feather.
    -[x] Paradox yourself a compatible feather
    --[x] Implore aid in the 1980s
    ---[x] Rely on Tomoyo's discretion
    [x] Paradox yourself a compatible feather
    -[x] Implore aid in the 1980s
    --[x] Relay it via an Yukari / Hitomi ribbon-swap
    ---[x] Get it placed in the hair pin if possible
    [X] Fight the paradox witch
    -[X] wake Kyouko with handholding
    -[X] Find the feather
    -[X] use the star staff to fix the feathers in Simona's seed, extract if needed.
    [X] Remind Ryouko that we are trying to save everyone, so she does need to protect her world from annihilation and the incubators are trying to get all of humanities energy though her.
    [X] Fight the paradox witch (focusing on defense)
    -[X] wake Ryouko through your link to her
    -[X] wake Nanami with handholding
    -[X] wake Kyouko with handholding
    -[X] attempt to use the star staff to fix the feathers in Simona's seed, extract if needed.
    -[X]Attempt to reason with Abraxas in a way that does not interfere with fighting/healing her, at the very least as a distraction while we move into combat posture.
    [x]Let the paradox happen
    -[x]Foil Abraxas's plans
    [X] fight the witch
    -[x] With all three
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It's currently late so I won't take the time to vote now.

I found this very shortly after finishing TtS and it's basically everything I ever wanted out of TtS except for Clarisse as a magical girl. In the end, I think what we're going to end up with instead is going to be much better: Deus. Est. Machina!

Before long, our humble Clarisse may find herself in the same ranks as Alvis.
 
Thelxiope said:
I note that if we go the other way, and Kyouko and the kids take our name, we have the problem of Ryouko duplication. This is problematic on its own, but also given the amount of time-travel and universe sheninaganery involved, we run the non-zero risk of our daughter Shizuki Ryouko actually just being our Ryouko all along.

Obviously the solution is for no one to take anyone's surname. We stay Shizuki Clarisse, Kyouko stays a Sakura, and the girls are Shizuki Momo and Sakura Ryouko.
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Clearly they should take each other's surname.
Become Shizuki-Sakuras
 
After some more thinking, we should just use known names of magical girls from shows!

This leaves us with Shizuki Sakura, Shizuki Yuuna (and all variations possible from yuuki yuuna) and so on for all the magical girl shows you can think of. We can also use other anime girls who aren't quite magical girls but tomoyo will reference in the quest anyway, like the Utena girls Shizuki Utena and Shizuki Anthy, and also the Revue Starlight girls, so Shizuki Karen and Shizuki Banana.
 
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