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Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest

Should the world be a Low Fantasy setting?

  • Yes

    Votes: 63 70.0%

  • No

    Votes: 27 30.0%
  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .
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Star said:
But he is using the situation and that way directly breaking Arthwyd customs.

It is basically the same as buying wife.
You can say that you don't support it and it isn't your fault but if you are giving the money to the seller to buy the wife what does that make you?
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But he isn't doing that at all. That is a completely invalid comparison.

He is suggesting to his grandson that it would be for the good of the People if he was to court one or both of the twins. Neither Edwyn or any of the Arthwyd are forcing or pressuring the twins to marry. That would be their families and the Maradysh.
 
Oshha said:
But he isn't doing that at all. That is a completely invalid comparison.

He is suggesting to his grandson that it would be for the good of the People if he was to court one or both of the twins. Neither Edwyn or any of the Arthwyd are forcing or pressuring the twins to marry. That would be their families and the Maradysh.
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But it is good comparison because if he decides that he wishes to marry them their opinion really won't matter.

He is basically buying the twins from their families in exchange for prestige.

Or are you saying that in his eyes Maradysh don't deserve the same rights as Arthwyd and are still barbarians despite him being their ruler and they being fellow Arthynite worshipers?
 
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Star said:
But it is good comparison because if he decides that he wishes to marry them their opinion really won't matter.

He is basically buying the twins from their families in exchange for prestige.

Or are you saying that in his eyes Maradysh don't deserve the same rights as Arthwyd?
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You clearly don't understand what is going on it. You can't hold people account for the actions of others. Just because the Maradysh will pressure the twins doesn't mean the Arthwyd are forcing them to marry.

Edit: Deleted unnecessary rudeness.
 
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@Star To make things clear, Cadlon Edwyn will just suggest to his grandson Darvyd that him courting the twins will be in the best interests of the People. Being who he is, Darvyd will agree with the logic of his grandfather and attempt to court one or both of the twins of his own accord. The twins will then have the chance to accept or reject his attempt to climb their mountains, but they will be pressured by their families and culture into accepting due to the sheer opportunity.

At no point is Cadlon Edwyn forcing anyone into the marriage because that would be against Arthwydish values.
 
Oshha said:
But he isn't doing that at all. That is a completely invalid comparison.

He is suggesting to his grandson that it would be for the good of the People if he was to court one or both of the twins. Neither Edwyn or any of the Arthwyd are forcing or pressuring the twins to marry. That would be their families and the Maradysh.
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Are you a lawyer by any chance?
 
Oshha said:
The twins will then have the chance to accept or reject his attempt to climb their mountains, but they will be pressured by their families and culture into accepting due to the sheer opportunity.
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But the entire point of the conversation is that they won't have a choice in the matter.

If he agrees it is basically YES or YES for them as they aren't given any choice, he doesn't even have to court them because answer is already decided before.

Oshha said:
At no point is Cadlon Edwyn forcing anyone into the marriage because that would be against Arthwydish values
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Basically that is the moral questions here does Cadlon truly follow Arthwyd values or is he only doing that on paper and is perfectly willing to indulge in practices that go against dose values. It is a question about his personality.
 
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Star said:
But the entire point of the conversation is that they won't have a choice in the matter.

If he agrees it is basically YES or YES for them as they aren't given any choice, he doesn't even have to court them because answer is already decided before.
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Except for that part why they do have the choice?

Star said:
Basically that is the moral questions here does Cadlon truly follow Arthwyd values or is he only doing that on paper and is perfectly willing to indulge in practices that go against does values. It is a question about his personality.
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He does follow Arthwyd values because unlike you, the Arthwyd don't believe in guilt by association and instead judge people by their own actions and don't hold them account for the choices of others. As far the Arthwyd are concerned, they can't hold the Cadlon accountable for barbarians acting barbaric nor it is fair to.
 
Oshha said:
Except for that part why they do have the choice?
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Okay let's do it this way, person A is courting person B to marry him, and at the same time person C is holding a Gun on persons B head threatening to kill her if she doesn't accept, person A is seeing this and knows that he can stop it but he still proceed to court person B.
So is there is a choice here ?

Oshha said:
He does follow Arthwyd values because unlike you, the Arthwyd don't believe in guilt by association and instead judge people by their own actions and don't hold them account for the choices of others. As far the Arthwyd are concerned, they can't hold the Cadlon accountable for barbarians acting barbaric nor it is fair to.
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But they are perfectly willing to marry person knowing that that they might won't have a choice. Glad we reached that conclusion.
 
Star said:
Okay let's do it this way, person A is courting person B to marry him, and at the same time person C is holding a Gun on persons B head threatening to kill her if she doesn't accept, person A is seeing this and knows that he can stop it but he still proceed to court person B.
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You're wrong about the "knows that he can stop it", because he can't stop it. Person C is insisting Person B get married - if Person A breaks it off, the gun doesn't go away they're just forced to marry someone else.

Potentially someone who doesn't believe that they should have a choice in the matter - or in any other consequent matters.

While Person A can marry them and then, once they're away from C, go "Eh, go marry other people if you like, we're polygamous so you're not actually stuck with me"
 
kingreaper said:
While Person A can marry them and then, once they're away from C, go "Eh, go marry other people if you like, we're polygamous so you're not actually stuck with me"
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I actually forgot that if given permissions by marriage partner Arthwyd can be with other people.

[X] [Mega] Upgrade the Blessing of Arthryn.
[X] [Mega] Gain a new Mystic-related Value
[X] [Mega] Gain at least two Magical Technologies

[X] [North] Try to peacefully resolve matters.
[X] [South] Let them be.
[X] [SEC] Create New Trails.
[X] [SEC] Support Subordinate = (Merntir)

With all of my problems gone i believe that it is in best interests for the twins to marry in.
 
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@Oshha theoretically if one of the twins fancies someone else, I assume that she is free to pursue him or her for the matter if marriage partner gives premision.

But what about the child from that relationship, is the child considered member of the royal family through the mother or not?
 
kingreaper said:
You're wrong about the "knows that he can stop it", because he can't stop it. Person C is insisting Person B get married - if Person A breaks it off, the gun doesn't go away they're just forced to marry someone else.

Potentially someone who doesn't believe that they should have a choice in the matter - or in any other consequent matters.

While Person A can marry them and then, once they're away from C, go "Eh, go marry other people if you like, we're polygamous so you're not actually stuck with me"
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@Star This person gets it.

Somebodynobody10 said:
Your arguments were being so factually correct in pushing the blame on others away from the "defendant" of the situation - felt like you had experience with stuff like this.
(That is not meant as an insult, btw).
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It is more that I don't believe in guilt by association.

If Darvyd decides to willingly court one or both of the twins at the suggestion of his grandfather and the twins are pressured into accepting his advances by their families and their culture, then I don't consider Cadlon Edwyn to be forcing the twins into a marriage. All he is doing is suggesting to his grandson that him courting one or both of these girls would be good for the People and as far as I am concerned and by the Arthwydish standards, it is the twin's families who are responsible for pressuring them into the marriage.

I find the logic behind the situation to be ridiculous because it basically puts Cadlon Edwyn into a catch 22 situation where everything he does is immoral. He suggests to his grandson that he court the twins, Edwyn is forcing them into the marriage because he knows the twins will be pressured into it. By the same logic, if he doesn't make that suggestion to his grandson, he will still be forcing the twins into a marriage because he knows that the twins will still be pressured into the most beneficial marriages for their families by their families. Since he knows about the Maradysh cultural and how their marriages work (which is an assumption and not a fact), then Cadlon Edwyn is always forcing the twins into the marriage, he just gets to choose whether the twins get forced into marry his son or a couple of random Maradysh blokes.

I feel that the fact that the twins will be pressured into a good marriage even if Darvyd never tries to court them as been ignored. The fact that the Maradysh pressure their kids into getting a good marriage for their family is something that will happen and continue to happen regardless of Cadlon Edwyn's actions and there is no easy fix.

This of course ignores the possibilities that either Darvyd or the twins could say no. Because Cadlon Edwyn is clearly forcing them into the marriage when both Darvid and the twins are fully allowed to say no because in a forced marriage, the would be spouses are allowed to say no and have that be the end of the matter. I find the idea of it being a forced marriage is ridiculous because all it takes for it to be over is for Darvyd or one of the twins to say no and that would be the end of the marriage.

Furthermore, the logic used basically means that the royal family has to be racist as the only way for them to never force the Maradysh into a marriage is to never try and marry anyone from the Maradysh. This makes it a catch twenty-two situation where you can either marry someone and 'force' them into the marriage or you never marriage someone from a certain country and cultural group because doing so would be forcing them into a marriage.

Star said:
@Oshha theoretically if one of the twins fancies someone else, I assume that she is free to pursue him or her for the matter if marriage partner gives premision.

But what about the child from that relationship, is the child considered member of the royal family through the mother or not?
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Yes.

Only those with the Blood of Evalyn are considered members of the Royal Family so unless the father is a blood-relative of Darvyd, no.
 
Oshha said:
I feel that the fact that the twins will be pressured into a good marriage even if Darvyd never tries to court them as been ignored. The fact that the Maradysh pressure their kids into getting a good marriage for their family is something that will happen and continue to happen regardless of Cadlon Edwyn's actions and there is no easy fix.

This of course ignores the possibilities that either Darvyd or the twins could say no. Because Cadlon Edwyn is clearly forcing them into the marriage when both Darvid and the twins are fully allowed to say no because in a forced marriage, the would be spouses are allowed to say no and have that be the end of the matter. I find the idea of it being a forced marriage is ridiculous because all it takes for it to be over is for Darvyd or one of the twins to say no and that would be the end of the marriage.
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Also an important part being missed is that Twin Diplo Heroes aren't going to be pressured into a whole lot.
If they had a preferred prospect they'd have set things up to get it.
But, by their cultural values, their preferred marriage prospect WOULD have been chosen based on the best marriage they can get for their People.
i.e. the heir of the local superpower
 
In other news from the discord, we still need someone to write an Arthwyd version of the Lokasenna with Wyrn lewding the other goddesses.
 
Star said:
You mean about how Wryn and Evalyn ambushed their mother and had a intimate moment and being trapped in statue because of that.
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No, like the real life Lokasenna where Loki insulted all of the other Norse Gods except in the Arthwyd version, it would be Wyrn making lewd remarks about all of the other Arthrynite goddesses. It was @KlinkerKing's idea on the discord, but we can't find anyone to write it so I figure I would bring it up in the thread.
 
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Arthrynite Pantheon after the completion of the First Temple
  • Informational
    • Arthryn
    Arthrynite/Goddess of the People
    Appearance: Large breasts and hips with an average waist, muscular and lean, blue eyes, brown medium hair, mid twenties

    Wyrn
    Wyrnite/Goddess of Stories, Trickery and Arts
    Appearance: Large breasts and hips with an average waist, muscular and lean, blue eyes, brown medium hair, mid teens

    Ymarn
    Ymarnite/Goddess of Life, Wisdom and War
    Appearance: Large breasts and hips with an average waist, muscular and lean, green eyes, long silver hair, early twenties,

    All-Seeress
    All-Seerite/Goddess of Truth, Knowledge and Pathfinding
    Appearance: Large breasts and hips with an average waist, slender, white eyes, long blonde hair, late teens,


    Evalyn
    Evalynite/Goddess of Battle, Death and Leadership
    Appearance: Large breasts and hips with an average waist, muscular and imposing, green eyes, medium red hair, catgirl (ears and tail), late teens,

    Bronwyn
    Bronwynite/Goddess of Beauty, Love and Repentance
    Appearance: Extra Large breasts and hips with an average waist, slender, blue eyes, long blonde hair, catgirl (ears and tail), late teens,
     
  • Informational
    • [X][Mega] Upgrade the Blessing of Arthryn.
    [X][North] Try to peacefully resolve matters.
    [X][South] Marry Darvyd to both sisters.
    [X][SEC] Create New Trails.
    [X][SEC] Study Metal.
     
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