Should the world be a Low Fantasy setting?

  • Yes

    Votes: 63 70.0%
  • No

    Votes: 27 30.0%

  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .
[X] [Mega] Upgrade the Blessing of Arthryn.
[X] [North] Try to peacefully resolve matters.
[X] [South] Let them be.

[X] [SEC] Create New Trails.
[X] [SEC] Support Subordinate = (Mentir)
Adhoc vote count started by nkd1325 on Mar 2, 2019 at 11:56 PM, finished with 181 posts and 56 votes.
 
[X] [Mega] Upgrade the Blessing of Arthryn.
[X] [North] Try to peacefully resolve matters.
[X] [South] Marry Darvyd to both sisters.
 
[X] [Mega] Upgrade the Blessing of Arthryn.
[X] [North] Try to peacefully resolve matters.
[X] [South] Marry Darvyd to both sisters.
[X] [SEC] Create New Trails.
[X] [SEC] Support Subordinate = (Merntir)
I think you're significantly overestimating the amount of education available to the royalty (I don't think we have any), and ignoring the fact that we have plenty of lower level leadership positions that create a significant knowledge base to recruit from among the common people.

In our previous governement, we invested a medium amount of resources into the administrative apparatus, which (together with other areas of society) provided the candidates.

In addition, your modern day example doesn't make much sense either, because what you're seeing is primarily the result of having the ability to manipulate the system (elite connections, media campaigns), not any unique skillsets. You can see that in nations that have campaign finance regulations and more equitable voting mechanisms, you don't have the same strong political families.
You're massively underestimating the costs of having someone whose job is to do nothing but teach someone. A King needs to learn mathematics, religion, politics and many other arts of ruling and delegation.

Cheapest path: The King has all the skills, therefore an apprenticeship(i.e. Crown Prince) where their heir sits in on judgments and council can teach said apprentice without further investment.

Expensive path: You develop or coopt(note anyone you coopt are doing vital jobs) people to be taught the skills and to then exclusively do nothing but teach the candidate pool of the aristocracy. FYI, the Greek City-states managed this only because they had bronze to save on production costs, their elders made it a point to do lecturing(and screaming arguments) and they had a lot of slaves who could be fed a minimum of resources to do menial jobs.

Impossible path: You implement the industrial age process of public education. This requires a large body of teachers(at least 1 per 50 children) who exclusively learn skills to teach them to children. This also removes children from minor productive roles and apprenticeships where they generate productivity. Industrialization made up enough excess to make it work. Doing it in the Iron Age would already be considered mildly insane without specialized culture values towards communal child raising. Doing it earlier would just kill your economy.
With Ymaryn, I am not sure if you are talking about Ymarn, Evalyn or the civ from PoC/PoI so I can't really comment on it.
Ymarn.
Fingers apparently learned to type Ymaryn on reflex.

Sure, low stability would encourage innovation, but high stability would not.

I really don't see how it could. I mean... maybe in a civ were new things happening all the time WAS the standard? But certainly not something anywhere close to what we have now.

The net effect on innovation is neutral. You're blending stability-boosting traits with stability. The easiest way to retain stability is to accept things as they happen, and to not ask questions, both of which hurts innovation.

At high stability, people are happy, content and confident that this is the best. They are more willing to experiment with art, culture, exploration and engineering. You tend to see innovations which involve a group working together, which tries new things or which needs a lot of resources.

At low stability, people are afraid, uncertain and uncomfortable. They will try to cling to traditions as they interpret it rather than the community. Me-first-isms become more prevalent. You tend to see more innovations regarding ways to gain or retain an advantage.
As had been planned from the start, the statue of Bronwyn the Beautiful was the centrepiece of the temple while a larger statue of Arthryn, Goddess of the People, stands behind her, overlooking the former Cadlon.

A statue of Wyrn, Goddess of Stories, Trickery and Arts, is to the right of Arthryn and then a statue of Evalyn, Goddess of Death, Battle and Leadership is on the right of Wyrn. To Arthryn's left side is a statue of All-Seeress, Goddess of Truth, Knowledge and Pathfinding followed by a statue of Ymarn, Goddess of Life, War and Wisdom.

Domains listed! Hopefully this goes into an informational threadmark later. Its hard to find!


Value Upgraded! Born Equal upgrades to Fair Treatment!
Fair Treatment

While not everyone is equal in the end, they deserve a chance to prove themselves and regardless of who they are or the nature of their birth, they deserve to be given fair treatment.
Pros: Decreased social stratification, Decreased Discrimination,
Cons: Decreased social stratification, Many think you weak,
Trait got moderated towards a less extreme interpretation, but easier to live by.
Value Upgraded! Communal Mandate upgrades to Communal Unity!
Communal Unity

One must stand by their community with loyalty and kindness for looking after your neighbours and community of the highest importance. As per the teachings of the goddesses, standing united with the rest of your community is a righteous thing.
Pros: Greatly Reduced Internal Discontent, Greatly Increased Resistance to Foreign Intrigue,
Cons: Increase stability loss from taking actions which harm the People, Discourages disunity,
United we stand!

But as the construction of the temple went on, the priesthood was unable to come to a conclusion and was instead split between the three factions. In the end, it took the intervention of Cadlon Edwyn to bring about a solution.

Concerned about the debate slowing down the temple, the Cadlon decided to see what the problem was. Upon hearing about the three factions and their proposed suggestions, Cadlon Edwyn asked why they could do all three?
Cadlon Edwyn: "Why not both?"

How do the Arthwyd react to the Merntir troubles?
[] [North] Stay out of it.
[] [North] Side with the Vynadians
[] [North] Side with the Anti-Vyandians
[] [North] Try to peacefully resolve matters.
Cadlon Edwyn: "Why not both?"
It isn't all bad news as the Maradysh have had a surprising turn of events. According to rumour, a pair of twin sisters have blessed by Arthryn herself and having read the official reports, Cadlon Edwyn can see where the rumours are coming from.

The twins are born to parents who don't have the blessing and yet the traits of those that they do. As they didn't get the blessing from their parents, the twins must have gotten it from Arthryn herself and while the idea is highly unlikely, it isn't outrageous or unbelievable.

There is historical precedent for such a thing happened and while not outsider has been blessed, members of the People who lacked the blessing due to outsider parents have been known receive the blessing from Evalyn. Amongst those known, two of the goddesses are included as both Ymarn and Evalyn received the blessing not from their parents, but from Arthryn herself.

But his reports assure him that is not the case as while the twins are fortunate to have the majority of the blessing's effect between them, they do not have all of them. Large chest, wide hips and a big bottom? Yes. Intelligence? Yes. Good health and fitness? Yes.

But only Elwyn had the muscles and physical prowess of the blessing as she was heading towards the path of a Catclaw while her more mystic-oriented sister Elyri was going towards the path of a priestess.

No, the twins lacked the blessing and simply got born with a good set of whatever gave good traits due to getting lucky. They were blessed by luck and not Arthryn.

Nonetheless, these twins had proved themselves to be rising stars with both beauty, charm and skill. They were almost certainly destined for greatness and Edwyn saw an opportunity. His heir is already married and too old for the twins in addition to being a woman, but her eldest child and Edwyn's grandson is about the same age as the twins in addition to lacking a committed partner.

He could convince Darvyd to marry one of the twins or maybe both to bring them into the royal family. They would lack the Blood of Evalyn and the Blessing of Arthryn, but their children would not and the twins are still impressive enough on their own merits.

Arrange a marriage with the Midlander Twins?
[] [South] Let them be.
[] [South] Marry Darvyd to Elwyn (Heroic Diplo/Martial)
[] [South] Marry Darvyd to Elyri (Heroic Diplo/Mystic)
[] [South] Marry Darvyd to both sisters.
@Oshha
Wouldn't the People credit the birth of twin Diplo Heroes just in time to deal with a Diplomatic crisis to divine intervention whether or not it really is?

Also Cadlon Edwyn: "Why not both?"
 
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people really need to stop thinking of this as an arranged marriage forced on the two parties,
Sorry, no matter how many times I read the text I can't help but see it like that.

I mean, the not marry vote is "let them be" for Ymarn's sake. Whenever is the alternative to "let them be" not "force the issue despite it not being something that would naturally occur"? Like, if this was something the twins and Darwyd would do on their own without pressure, why is the "let nature take its course" vote the one that has them not marry?

I know this isn't what Oshha had in mind when writing it, but it's what keeps popping into mine while reading.
 
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Sorry, no matter how many times I read the text I can't help but see it like that.

I mean, the not marry vote is "let them be" for Ymarn's sake. Whenever is the alternative to "let them be" not "force the issue despite it not being something that would naturally occur"? Like, if this was something the twins and Darwyd would do on their own without pressure, why is the "let nature take its course" vote the one that has them not marry?

I know this isn't what Oshha had in mind when writing it, but it's what keeps popping into mine while reading.

I knew it would come to this.
 
Disadvantaged, but not ineffective. They'd still be more useful improving our chances at STOPPING A CIVIL WAR then speeding up the eventual processes of us assimilating the maradysh like we have been doing vs the civil war problem.

I don't think I need to state the ramifications of staying out of it as everyone has gone against it mostly.
That leaves siding with them or brokering peace.
If we side with them we risk one faction permanently breaking off with the people and a bloody civil war killing our own people. This is obviously bad. The Vyadin don't hate us and the faction isn't aggressive towards us, only the anti vyadin.

The best option is to prevent any of this form occurring by brokering peace. If we fail civil war breaks out and that WILL leave long term problems in the merntir highlands. AS you said, the twins are at a disadvantage, which is WHY we take both of them. If we take the mystic we have religion on our side and someone who can argue from a religious standpoint. We also have the martial sister who will punish those who try to disrupt the peace. BOTH OF WHICH ARE DIPLO. Are they disadvantaged? yes, but are they equipped to deal with such a situation? Also yes. By having both, the civil war can really be dealt with. Will it be easy? No, but its far easier to do so then if we went by ourselves.

So to broker peace between a group who wants to preserve their culture and traditions and another who wants be be like us we will disregard the culture and traditions of our southern vassal. I don't see how this will be a problem at all.
 
[X] [Mega] Upgrade the Blessing of Arthryn.
[X] [North] Try to peacefully resolve matters.
[X] [South] Marry Darvyd to both sisters.
[X] [SEC] Create New Trails.
[X] [SEC] Study Metal.

Even the savage lowlanders can learn the People's ways and the earn the blessings of the goddesses. Let's all get married and build trails to connect the People and be super special together. And maybe learn bronze as a metaphor thing, but definitely get that crafter bonus.
 
I knew it would come to this.
It's not just the voting options. It's also that the whole scene is framed from Elwyn sitting in his room, figuring out what to do and weighing pros and cons. So it naturally follows that whatever choice is voted for next is what he eventually decides to do about it. It is entirely Elwyn's scene and his decision, in terms of how the text frames it.

Despite Darvyd being an adult man with his own desires and who is going to be a Cadlon (and thus viewpoint character) in the future, his only existance in the update itself is as "someone who could be married off". Like, there's a reason why several posters (myself included, to be honest) assumed that at the time of the update, Darvyd was a young child incapable of making life decisions for himself. Because he wasn't really described as anything other than a young grandson not yet married.

At this point I am not sure how the union can be written for me not to read it as either "an arranged marriage that luckily turned out well for everyone" or "Oshha swiftly backpedaling as a response to a vocal minority of questers", since the arranged marriage part really isn't questionable in my mind at this point. @Oshha didn't intend it to be, but the text unfortunately exists outside of the writer's head.

Though I suppose that's actually an argument in favour of ignoring me, as you should with unpleaseable parts of your fanbase. If even I can't see a way for me to be happy with a given plot-thread, there's not much reason to spend energy trying to please me.

I just wanted to air my feelings and opinions regardless.
 
At this point I am not sure how the union can be written for me not to read it as either "an arranged marriage that luckily turned out well for everyone" or "Oshha swiftly backpedaling as a response to a vocal minority of questers", since the arranged marriage part really isn't questionable in my mind at this point. @Oshha didn't intend it to be, but the text unfortunately exists outside of the writer's head.
This genuinely isn't even hard. All that needs to be done (as the discord discussion lead to) is to merely write the vote as a selection of events that happen, rather than as a character. The example I used was something along the lines of
KlinkerKing said:
[ ] Charlie goes to the bar and meets Angus
[ ] Charlie goes fishing and meets someone else
So yeah, no big deal. That being said, it shouldn't have to be done in my opinion, but it clearly does because people are viewing this too much like an OTL-Modern-Western perspective and thus make assumptions about words that just aren't true ITTL.
 
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This genuinely isn't even hard. All that needs to be done (as the discord discussion lead to) is to merely write the vote as a selection of events that happen, rather than as a character. The example I used was something along the lines of
So yeah, no big deal. That being said, it shouldn't have to be done in my opinion, but it clearly does because people are viewing this too much like an OTL-Modern-Western perspective and thus make assumptions about words that just aren't true ITTL.
I don't think just that would be enough. It would be better for sure, if that's how the update had gone I would've probably just gone "I don't ship it!", voted against and then resigned myself to SV's desire to have all the things.

But if all you changed was the vote lines, then it still comes off as though the event you are voting for is the result of Elwyn's machinations made in a dimly lit room.

Maybe if you changed it to make it clear that by "convince Darvyd to marry them" Elwyn just means "introduce them to each other and crossing his fingers", then the scene could've possibly avoided it.
 
Ally with the side that wants independence, watch movement collapse from within as they are called out on hypocrisy. Next level Imperialism strats.

[X] [Mega] Upgrade the Blessing of Arthryn.

Please don't be Cat Girls @Oshha please not cat girls.

How many people actually want our civ to be cat girls/people? I personally would rather this not happen.

At that point especially with polygamy and how the women look might as well see if Arthryn could summon some exceptionally average Japanese highschooler, and promise him her and all her daughters their hand in marriage if he defeats the evil boar god.
 
No one can force marriages or extort favours among the Arthwyd, that'd get the goddesses coming down on them. This vote is to get the Prince to court the Hero(es), not manipulate them. This entire argument is silly.
 
Wait, why are we still a herediary monarchy if our goddess explicitly told us to knock it off? It can't be that we didn't understand/believe what the goddess said, we just erected a temple to it.
 
[X] [Mega] Gain at least two Magical Technologies
[X] [North] Try to peacefully resolve matters.
[X] [South] Let them be
[X] [SEC] Create New Trails.
[X] [SEC] Support Subordinate = (Merntir)
 
Wait, why are we still a herediary monarchy if our goddess explicitly told us to knock it off? It can't be that we didn't understand/believe what the goddess said, we just erected a temple to it.
Branwyn was punished because of why she did what she did not what she did. Arthryn thinks its a bad idea but does not believe it currently violates any of her ideals and two of her daughter goddesses think it is a good idea.
 
Please don't be Cat Girls @Oshha please not cat girls.
Worry about that when the Blessing of Wyrn comes around. Arthryn doesn't even like boobs being comedically large.
Wait, why are we still a herediary monarchy if our goddess explicitly told us to knock it off? It can't be that we didn't understand/believe what the goddess said, we just erected a temple to it.
Missing the point.
The goddess didn't say hereditary monarchy is wrong.
She said that hereditary monarchy for the benefit of your family over the People is wrong. She didn't like it, but freedom includes the freedom to choose not to be free anymore
The people have the right to choose to have a monarch if they want to. Arthryn will back that.
The people have the right to choose to no longer have a monarch if they want to. Arthryn will back that too.
 
[X] [Mega] Upgrade the Blessing of Arthryn.
[X] [North] Try to peacefully resolve matters.
[X] [South] Marry Darvyd to both sisters.
[X] [SEC] Create New Trails.
[X] [SEC] Support Subordinate = (Merntir)
 
[X] [Mega] Upgrade the Blessing of Arthryn.
[X] [North] Try to peacefully resolve matters.
[X] [South] Let them be.
[X] [SEC] Create New Trails.
[X] [SEC] Support Subordinate = (Merntir)
 
[X] [Mega] Upgrade the Blessing of Arthryn.
[X] [North] Try to peacefully resolve matters.
[X] [South] Let them be.

[X] [SEC] Create New Trails.
[X] [SEC] Support Subordinate = (Merntir)
 
Vote is still open.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest - Original | Page 305 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 7617-7817]
##### NetTally 1.9.7
Task: Mega
[X][Mega] Upgrade the Blessing of Arthryn.
No. of Votes: 51
[X][Mega] Gain at least two Magical Technologies
No. of Votes: 13
[X][Mega] Gain a new Mystic-related Value
No. of Votes: 7
[X][Mega] Upgrade a random Value
No. of Votes: 1
[X][Mega] Gain a Mystic Hero
No. of Votes: 1

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: North
[X][North] Try to peacefully resolve matters.
No. of Votes: 54
[X][North] Side with the Anti-Vyandians
No. of Votes: 4
[X][North] Stay out of it.
No. of Votes: 2

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: South
[X][South] Marry Darvyd to both sisters.
No. of Votes: 28
[X][South] Let them be.
No. of Votes: 25
[X][South] Marry Darvyd to Elwyn (Heroic Diplo/Martial)
No. of Votes: 11
[X][South] Marry Darvyd to Elyri (Heroic Diplo/Mystic)
No. of Votes: 2

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: SEC
[X][SEC] Create New Trails.
No. of Votes: 41
[X][SEC] Support Subordinate = (Merntir)
No. of Votes: 23
[X][SEC] Study Metal.
No. of Votes: 15
[X][SEC] Build Palisade = (Greenbay)
No. of Votes: 7
[X][SEC] Build Palisade = (Rockbay)
No. of Votes: 4
[X][SEC] Sacred Forest
No. of Votes: 3
[X][SEC] Support Subordinate = (Mentir)
No. of Votes: 2
[X][SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
No. of Votes: 2
[X][SEC] Explore Lands = (Sea)
No. of Votes: 2
[X][SEC] Explore Lands = (Coastline)
No. of Votes: 2
[X][SEC] Explore Lands = (Sunset Mountains)
No. of Votes: 2
[X][SEC] Explore Lands = (Sunrise Mountains)
No. of Votes: 2
[X][SEC] Explore Lands = (Lowlands)
No. of Votes: 2
[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = (Boarfolk Nomads)
No. of Votes: 2
[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = (Lowlands)
No. of Votes: 2
[X][SEC] Stone Wall
No. of Votes: 1

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: MAIN
[X][MAIN] Stone Wall
No. of Votes: 1
Total No. of Voters: 63
 
Except that's only at 3/3 stability. Not 4/3 stability. Heck, I doubt you can even get a golden age with 4/3 stability.

The Golden Age requires stability to be at 3 or higher.

you can't go over stability btw (iirc form the realm of discordance)

You can get over 3 Stability via regular actions such as Venerating the Goddesses. Special options and factions can let you go over maximum stability.

Domains listed! Hopefully this goes into an informational threadmark later. Its hard to find!

I will do an updated Pantheon info post once the next goddesses sidestory is out.

@Oshha
Wouldn't the People credit the birth of twin Diplo Heroes just in time to deal with a Diplomatic crisis to divine intervention whether or not it really is?

They kind of are. While the Cadlon and the priests who looked into the matter know better, pretty much everyone is just assuming that Arthryn blessed them to help the People.

Please don't be Cat Girls @Oshha please not cat girls.

Only the paladins will be catgirls if you get paladins in the future.

Wait, why are we still a herediary monarchy if our goddess explicitly told us to knock it off? It can't be that we didn't understand/believe what the goddess said, we just erected a temple to it.

Basically what is said below.
Branwyn was punished because of why she did what she did not what she did. Arthryn thinks its a bad idea but does not believe it currently violates any of her ideals and two of her daughter goddesses think it is a good idea.
Missing the point.
The goddess didn't say hereditary monarchy is wrong.
She said that hereditary monarchy for the benefit of your family over the People is wrong. She didn't like it, but freedom includes the freedom to choose not to be free anymore
The people have the right to choose to have a monarch if they want to. Arthryn will back that.
The people have the right to choose to no longer have a monarch if they want to. Arthryn will back that too.

Arthryn didn't say that monarchy is bad and you shouldn't do it, even if she privately thinks that. What she did is say "You need to keep Born Equal and Communal Mandate or you will suffer my wrath" and punished Bronwyn, Evalyn and Wyrn for breaking those by instituting hereditary monarchy for selfish reasons rather than doing so for the good of the People.

No one can force marriages or extort favours among the Arthwyd, that'd get the goddesses coming down on them. This vote is to get the Prince to court the Hero(es), not manipulate them. This entire argument is silly.

Sort of. You can't force marriages in the Arthwyd. The Arthwyd have two main requirements when it comes to romantic relationships, consent between all parties involved and no incest. The former is due to Arthryn while the latter is due to Wyrn not liking some of the People shipping her with her mum. Darvyd won't be forced by the Arthwyd to marry the twins whether it is just one or both of them due to forced marriages breaking the consent requirement. However, if Darvyd feels that he needs to marry the twins for the good of the People, he will try to do that out of a sense of duty and will do that willingly.

With the Maradysh, they are more family oriented and patriarchal so arranged marriages are a thing that is known to happen. If the twins get the chance to marry into the royal family, they will almost certainly take it due to it being an incredible opportunity and easily the best marriage prospect they will get, especially since it is the third in line to be king. Even if they don't want to for some reason, they will suffer extreme pressure from their families to do and not marrying into the royal family when they get the chance would be viewed as a betrayal of their family by the Maradysh.
 
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