Remove ads

Burden of the Emerald Empire (A Legend of the Five Rings Tale)

Reader mode
No7sHere said:
Also what did our legal reform actually gain us?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This hasn't come up yet but the Lion going to Hisao for arbitration is actually a legal requirement, previously they would legally have to go through Otemi's will. (There are of course ways around that, but it would have been largely internal)

However:
Probably the biggest things for Hisao is that he clawed out a wider jurisdiction for his Emerald Magistrates. Previously they could only really intervene when a matter was between multiple Clans, or related directly to Imperial Law. In effect the Imperial Throne is able to investigate internal clan matters if they see fit. It's a power being used cautiously, but has greatly helped in dealing with local corruption.
Second as a corollary of that, is that a rudimentary court system has been established that people can appeal to if they wish to avoid causing strife between with their lord. A small thing yes, but one that could in the future prove the embryo of a national court system that provides a universal justice.

Finally, as mentioned the right of inheritance dispute has been given back to the Imperial Throne, odds are that they'll lose it again, but for now Hisao has the final say on who inherits as a daimyo.

In terms of things that Hisao doesn't care about but are still pretty major. A system of penalties and fines has been instituted that punishes samurai who would murder the lower class without cause. It's not much, but no longer will a Samurai walk away from killing a geisha or what have you and face no punishment for it.

Is it enough to fit the crime? No, not by our standards, but better than nothing.


Hmm at some point I need to do a side story post for someone from the lower classes to show all this playing out.
 
If we manage to actually get our economy reformed to something reasonable and significantly improve our infrastructure (something we've started on right?) how will our economic output compare to both a historic country, the other countries we know and what was before. If we manage to actually pull of all the reforms we want, ie. economic improvements, military reform, infrastructure construction and a proper court and investigative system before we die how might we be remembered?
 
No7sHere said:
If we manage to actually get our economy reformed to something reasonable and significantly improve our infrastructure (something we've started on right?) how will our economic output compare to both a historic country, the other countries we know and what was before. If we manage to actually pull of all the reforms we want, ie. economic improvements, military reform, infrastructure construction and a proper court and investigative system before we die how might we be remembered?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's a lot of big questions hre and one hard to answer given the literal existence of magic and gods. Like I can't directly compare Rokugan to any real world country, because no real world country (So far as I know) had access to literally magic. So doing a one to one comparison isn't exactly fair to anyone.

Hold a gun to my head, and I'd say that you can probably compare pre reform Rokugan to the lower end of the Sengoku Jidai era Japan, and post reform to the start of the Edo period Japan. But even that's more of a generalized abstraction than something that I'd put hard numbers on.

Hisao spent the first two years of his reign rebuilding infrastructure and expanding it. It's going to take a few more years for that to fully pay off, but the big hurdle right now is money and people.

Ultimately how Hisao is going to be remembered is going to depend on a number of factors. The largest of which are completely out of his hands. And now we get to the part where I'm going to be a total downer about things. There is a hard limit to how much Rokugan can change. Not because of it's people but because of it's gods.

The gods very much do exist in Rokugan, and they have very particular ideas about how things should be. Hisao has a lot of latitude owing to his patrons, Lady Moon and Lord Sun, but it's not infinite. If it looks like Hisao is prepping things to end the feudal system in general, there will be divine action against that.

Both the Economic system and the Laws are mostly up to entirely human invention, so there's a lot of room to play with it for Hisao. The military, religion, and culture? Less so. Kaneka's reforms are to clean out corruption, and resettle the Imperial Legions from guards into soldiers. But he's still using the same basic play book that Akodo the kami of the Lion laid out. The Grand Conclave isn't going to do anything like declare a human-secularist outcome. It's going to look back to tradition and come to an answer that fits in that. The games of Court and the competition of the Clans, is unlikely to ever truly change even if the players do.

So how will Hisao be remembered? Well that depends. For now I can safely say that he will be remembered as the visionary who struggled to drag his Empire out of the madness of the twelfth century into peace. Whether or not he's successful? Well that's what this quest is about finding out.
 
Honestly a generally feudal system does not have to be a bad thing, look at England towards the end of the Middle ages. We can maintain our general political system while still making some much needed reforms, in fact the reforms we most need should have no problem at all with a feudal structure and we've started on them already.

Better infrastructure is always good and basically independent of political systems, a more effective legal system is trickier but again Medieval England provides an indication of how a feudal system can have a central court system that provides a method of appeal to (theoretically) all levels of society, the fact that we have something like the Emerald magistrates is already a massive advantage. In terms of our economic system there do seem to be issues but if we look at the example of the HRE we might be able to do something similar with the creation of free cities to drive trade, if we can also create a series of imperial roads that are subject only to imperial tolls and are protected by imperial law (maybe with some waystations as well) that might also encourage more long distance trade. The issue of currency is really tricky but people already seem to have some ideas about that.

In terms of reforming the military we don't need to massively change who does the fighting but ideally we can improve how well they do it, a big improvement might be training the samurai to operate better in formation, an increase in discipline and adherence to orders, some form of formal training in strategy, tactics and logistics for officers, selection and promotion of officers based on merit rather than social rank, developing methods for effective battlefield signaling like flags or drums and maybe the development of a professional logistic arm of the legions.

Just how many samurai can we actually call up to military service and of those how many are outright superhuman both in terms of pure skill and in terms of doing magic?
 
No7sHere said:
In terms of reforming the military we don't need to massively change who does the fighting but ideally we can improve how well they do it, a big improvement might be training the samurai to operate better in formation, an increase in discipline and adherence to orders, some form of formal training in strategy, tactics and logistics for officers, selection and promotion of officers based on merit rather than social rank, developing methods for effective battlefield signaling like flags or drums and maybe the development of a professional logistic arm of the legions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Okay, lets highlight each one(noting my Rokugan knowledge is second hand and may have holes):
-Formation/discipline - Possible, but limited to certain clans. I believe this would require us to go against divine tradition for some of the clans. Their clan strategy was defined by gods.

-Formal training system - No problem. They're already doing this to some extent. Just needs investment to improve quality.

-Meritocratic selection - Impossible by direct means. As per divine tradition, social rank IS merit. Questioning social rank designation methods meanwhile means taking on all the clans at once, since everyone on top is rather motivated to stay there. Closest we can get is introducing more tournaments and more contests for honorary titles and status, which would be hideously expensive to stage and does of course, get in the way of anyone competent who wants to WORK.

-Signaling - Pretty sure they have this already. No obstacles to improving this that I know of.

-Logistics - Good luck convincing samurai to do traders' work...technically possible, but very unlikely.
 
Couldn't we institute an office filled mostly with non-samurai which is only supervised by samurai to do most of this planning and try to market it to the clans as a normal administrative task?
 
veekie said:
Okay, lets highlight each one(noting my Rokugan knowledge is second hand and may have holes):
-Formation/discipline - Possible, but limited to certain clans. I believe this would require us to go against divine tradition for some of the clans. Their clan strategy was defined by gods.

-Formal training system - No problem. They're already doing this to some extent. Just needs investment to improve quality.

-Meritocratic selection - Impossible by direct means. As per divine tradition, social rank IS merit. Questioning social rank designation methods meanwhile means taking on all the clans at once, since everyone on top is rather motivated to stay there. Closest we can get is introducing more tournaments and more contests for honorary titles and status, which would be hideously expensive to stage and does of course, get in the way of anyone competent who wants to WORK.

-Signaling - Pretty sure they have this already. No obstacles to improving this that I know of.

-Logistics - Good luck convincing samurai to do traders' work...technically possible, but very unlikely.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The easy answer is to use the Imperial Legions as a test bed for whatever experimental system you want.

No7sHere said:
Couldn't we institute an office filled mostly with non-samurai which is only supervised by samurai to do most of this planning and try to market it to the clans as a normal administrative task?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This is basically what happens with samurai who are savyy, smart, and/or heretical enough. The Samurai Merchant Patrons (Yasuki, Daidoji, Ide, Scorpions) who provide political and monetary support. Magistrates have Doshin and Scribes to deal with being clerks. Samurai as Managers/Foremen/Overseers of important facilities like Sake Breweries, Paper Mills, Mines, etc.
 
I think that I should make clear, that even though Hisao is expected to be great, and L5R does indeed run to some degree on Great Man History. There's only so far he can go in reforms before encountering significant push back, possibly beyond his ability to handle. It's entirely possible he goes down as a King John, rather than Edward III
 
Remove ads
Year 3:Lion Summit: Consulting the Jade Champion
  • Threadmarks
    • -Void (Raise used)
    -Speak to Horiuchi Shem-Zhe

    You can't sleep, and perhaps it is paranoid of you, to suspect that the semi immortal, shape shifting master of primordial emptiness is using tricks against you. On the other hand, it might not be paranoia.
    With that in mind you decide to go talk to your Jade Champion, he's probably asleep by now, but as Emperor you have a royal prerogative to make sure that if you don't sleep, no one does.

    After making your way into one of the warmer art galleries, you send a servant to go summon Shem-Zhe to you. You could go visit the Castle of Law you suppose, but on the other hand...it's cold outside and truth be told you promised Domotai that you'd go judge the art here a while a go, may as well get it done. The art gallery has a theme and it seems to be that of animals, paintings, sculpture, wood carving all revolving around animals in play and life, but nothing about war. A subtle reminder of what was promised or a veiled threat of what they would fight for? A matter of interpretation you suppose.

    You find the best one of the lot in your opinion, two cranes standing side by side looking at the moon. The creator is someone you've never heard of, a Kakita Tamae. Probably a newly minted Samurai, she'll go far in the art world you think.

    Shem-Zhe appears beside you, looking somewhat annoyed and very carefully pulling his kimono close. You spot it for only a second, but the mark on his neck suggests that bringing his wife with him has proven very popular indeed for the man. (In theory Shem-Zhe could be having affair, but ultimately he doesn't seem the type)

    "My Emperor, I live to serve." he says.

    "Of course Horiuchi-san, I apologize for distracting you from certain duties. But I wish for your opinion with the situation of my wife and Matsu Satomi"

    Shem-zhe, cracks his neck and looks at the painting.
    "It is well known that Matsu Satomi-san never took the loss of her brothers well. Particularly with the events surrounding Matsu Domotai unfolding as they did. Matsu are already by nature impulsive, seven breaths to divine a course of action, and then stick to it, though all the world comes against them. If I had to guess, I would say any attempt to forgo what she sees as her nephew's birth right would have met with the same response."

    He shrugs.
    "It is ill luck that made it your wife the one to do that. The Empress is beautiful and good, but her political skills have yet to fully bloom"

    Translation: I like your wife, but she's got the political instincts of a bull.
    Which you suppose was fair enough assessment.

    You nod.

    "I see, as it stands, I'm not sure who has more legal claim. Akodo-san has the blood, but Matsu Nimuro-san the last champion was not related to the Akodo line at all so that seems to be less of a concern. However my wife being harmed leaves me somewhat biased."

    Shem-zhe looks at the painting.
    "It is indeed a conundrum. If one were to go strictly by Blood, you or your brother has the greatest claim to the position, but given your efforts running the Empire, I cannot imagine you wishing to add a Clan on top of that."

    In the privacy of your own mind you laugh at that idea. You running the Lion, as if there was a quicker way to lose everyone else.

    "None of the other clans would stand for it in any event. At least here we are safe from our enemy to the east." You say.

    The Unicorn picks up on the subtle question.
    "Hai, as much as one can be. The protections that your Uncle, my predecessor and the Oracles wove into the Imperial Palace are complex. They lack the power of the ones at the old capital, but they also lack its weakness as well. I will not say that the Shadow Dragon could not send a purely human agent here to do mischief, but another Goju should be impossible."

    So in other words: If Matsu Satomi is in fact a Shadow Dragon agent, she's a purely mortal one with all that implies. Damn, you had hoped to be able to just sweep this under the rug.

    "I suppose that is as much as I can ask for. Would that we have fewer enemies...but it cannot be helped, Honour is forever assaulted by those who fear it's strength" You say.

    "Hai" he agrees.

    'How goes the Conclave so far?"

    Shem-Zhe answers.
    "The Head Abbot says that there is a lot of quiet rumours floating about a scroll written by Master Suana, the man who helped raise your grandfather, and what it says."

    "He's something of a legend in the Brotherhood isn't he?" You ask.

    "Too many yes, but no I don't know where the Scroll came from or what it says. The Head Abbot seems to think it means good things for you though." Shem-Zhe agrees.

    You decide that graciousness is best here.
    "I was blessed by Lord Sun and Lady Moon once, I do not wish to be so ungrateful as to ask for more."

    The earlier wariness of Shem-Zhe slides away.
    "Well said. In terms of participation though, I think you will be happy, we're still waiting for the more remote monasteries...but it seems every major sect in the Empire and roughly ninety percent of the minor ones, will arrive in the city over the coming months"

    You almost smile yourself. You had hoped to get the major sects, but that many? Oh this could be the greatest Conclave since the Great Conclave in the 6th century.

    You say.
    "That is good news. I know that your office is technically only charged with hunting down heretics and blasphemers...but it does me good to know that I can rely on you to look on the other matters of spiritual health."

    "Thank you my Emperor..." He says.
    Shem-zhe doesn't quite want to say he wants to go back to bed. But it's obvious what he wants.

    You shake your head, ignoring the pain of your own wife being in the infirmary.
    "...Go back to your duty, and give her my well wishes."

    "Thank you my Emperor"

    So you stood there alone. It was good you supposed to know that the Conclave seemed to be heading towards a good conclusion for yourself. However, that Matsu Satomi apparently of her own accord got into a fight with your wife...less so. Even if by most accounts your wife was the one who started it.

    Time to try and get some more sleep, as you leave, you quietly write down on the scroll that Kakita Tamae is the winner in your eye.

    An Emperor's work is never done. As your head hits the pillow you already begin planning who to talk to first.

    [] Akodo Delegation
    [] Matsu Delegation
    [] Some one else (Write in)
     
    Last edited:
  • Threadmarks
    • [X] Write in: Refuse to see either of them before the other. Have both parties be politely disarmed (cleaning swords), then put into a room opposite of each otherand appear in full force. Currently, they are rebelling against your(ancestors) clan and your imperial majesty and making them feel as miserable as they should is a necessity
     
    Last edited:
    I don't like this vote. Either option can be read as a preference and that's not what we want. Hmmm if it could work I'm wondering about inviting any well known martial artists among both groups for practice. Nothing political here just a bunch of guys beating each other up. Remember don't talk about it.
     
    Dark as Silver said:
    I don't like this vote. Either option can be read as a preference and that's not what we want. Hmmm if it could work I'm wondering about inviting any well known martial artists among both groups for practice. Nothing political here just a bunch of guys beating each other up. Remember don't talk about it.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    That's certainly doable, although the Lion are going to be at a disadvantage.
    (Getting used to the idea that it's okay to throw a punch at the Emperor is a bit of a radical shift)
     
    gman391 said:
    That's certainly doable, although the Lion are going to be at a disadvantage.
    (Getting used to the idea that it's okay to throw a punch at the Emperor is a bit of a radical shift)
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...


    Openly praise the first one who lands a hit on you? Rokugani culture has a broad spectrum of warrior training. I'm *sure* that it has the language-pieces necessary to both encourage people to hit you in spite of social differences, and priase them when they do.

    On the other hand, I'm not convinced this is in our best interests. Right now, we have the Emperor Card. It is cold and hard, but it has a great deal of strength in its rigidity.

    So... what I'm seeing right now.... (note that this could be utterly off-base)

    The Matsu woman has watched her family die around her - lost one by one to the position of lion clan champion. They have poured so *much* blood on this stone, and she's willing to fight bitterly to keep what she sees as her nephew's birthright taken from him. Has their family not paid enough? She knows what the right answer is, and she intends to see it through in the traditional Matsu way - by battering through every foe that comes between her and what her honor demands... and the other Matsu respect and support that, and will follow her in it. She's frustrated, because she is forced by these new laws to appeal to the Emperor, and the Emperor is a political force that she *cannot* honorably oppose. Half the Lion (heavy on the Matsu) followed the Emperor in the Shadowlands War even after it became clear that he was the incarnation of Fu Leng himself. The Emperor is the court fo final appeals here, and she knows that he will have Akodo biases.

    This fills her with helpless frustration. Then the Empress comes to her, and suggests something deeply objectionable (specifically, that she willingly agree to *anything* other than the One Honorable And Correct Answer). Then, in the ensuing difference of opinion, the Empress (A *dragon*, no less) utterly disassembles her in one-on-one combat (however informal). Now her people are demanding reparations... and she may or may not feel that that is appropriate.

    I think... I think if we can get her to bend, we can get them to bend. I think also that she is in an insecure place, and will care much more about little indications of respect and preference than the Akodo. I think this is *not* the time to let down the Imperial Aura, but rather to leverage it. Thankfully, we're actually rpetty good at Air. Unfortunately, Kaname has a 1 in that stat. Maybe we can help with that.

    [x] Some One Else
    -[x] First, Kaname
    --[x] Go. Speak with her. Listen to what she has to say, and explain the situation. The Matsu have a sense of "honor" that is, at times, troublesome and even objectionable, and you will not dispute that. On the other hand, you are about to use that sense of honor to send them off to war against the glass golems, where a great many of them will die in your service, and in protecting Rokugan itself. You are doing what you can, where you can, but you have to work with what you have, and right now, what the Empire needs is to have the Matsu honor pointing them at the enemy rather than tearing them apart from the inside. Talk with her abotu what she suggested (not necessarily a bad idea, in other circumstances), and why it really didn't work here. Try to convince her to be willing to tender some sort of honest apology. (You are not asking your wife to lie here, or change her mind, just pick her truths, and find *something* in her behavior that she can reasonably apologize for. Check it before you go to make sure that it's the sort of thing likely to calm, rather than further enrage.)
    -[x] Then Matsu Satomi (visit her in the infirmary)
    --[x] With Kaname in tow, go speak with her. Kaname is to make whatever apology appropriate (to which we will add some small apology of our own, if we can do so gracefully) and then leave (unless she *wants* to stay... though if she does, she should not offer other radical suggestions until we are done). Then we ask for Satomi's side of things, and what she wants. While we're at it, we would like to know any other concerns that the Matsu have that she might know of.
    --[x] Have the appropriate channels let her know when we'll be dropping by to speak with her. If a few other members of her delegation happen to be visiting her in the infirmary at the time, and perhaps wish to offer limited contributions of their own, that is also acceptable, but this is meant to be primarily a discussion between ourselves and our vassal.
    --[x] Agree to nothing. Be prepared to pull out the appropriate level of the "I am the Emperor, and that borders on rudeness" card (level 1: raised eyebrow) if she tries to push the conversation too far in a hostile direction, but be willing to put it right back down again once she backs off. We understand that this is a difficult time for her.

    Basically, we're giving her respect, we're giving her a chance to get some things off her shoulders, we're taking an opportunity to pick up some secondary issues if we can, and we're trying to drag our wife in the general direction of diplomatic skill. It's not quite a concession, but it should help settle them down some. It also reinforces that we're acting as her liege lord (while still caring about both her and her honor), and trying to set the tone of the discussion going forward and what we will find acceptable behavior in our presence, but doing so gently.

    As always, challenges are welcomed and requested. I do from time to time crit-fail my insight checks on these things, and I would not want anyone to hold back from calling me on it because Intimidating Text Wall.

    Also, @gman391 - you probably want to threadmark that last one.
     
    Last edited:
    gman391 said:
    I mean it'll probably mean that my attempt at an update every other day is shot for the week. But I can manage it. I'd like if votes were a little smaller in the future.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Feel free to leave out detail, if that helps. I know that I write doorstops. I don't mind if you take some liberties with them. (example: the entire Kaname part of the vote can be pushed offscreen)

    Alternately, if someone wanted to write a vote that was "kind of like that one, but shorter", that's been a successful model in other L5R quests before.
     
    Last edited:
    Sirrocco said:
    Feel free to leave out detail, if that helps. I know that I write doorstops. I don't mind if you take some liberties with them. (example: the entire Kaname part of the vote can be pushed offscreen)

    Alternately, if someone wanted to write a vote that was "kind of like that one, but shorter", that's been a successful model in other L5R quests before.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I feel like Kaname's worth a scene in her own right though. Essentially this would be two scenes back to back. (Scene is about an update or update and half)
     
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top