Burden of the Emerald Empire (A Legend of the Five Rings Tale)

Uh while the Lion Clan Championship is politically fucked up. I wasn't quite planning to use the whole 'I made a clone of myself in defiance of common sense and proceeded to have no plans for my clone replacing me' version of events for what happened to Nimuro. Overall, I try not to go all 'fix fic' for canon although at this point you can hardly do worse than Iweko did by now.

That said, I do employ fairly liberal versions of the butterfly effect (As evidenced by Yoshino still being too young to inherit)
With Naseru being more competent and having an actual heir. The butteflies from that are that Naseru's canon wife is around to do more things in the Lion.

Meta. Nimuro didn't make a clone of himself, not intentionally. However Matsu Turi the Dark Oracle of Water did, and Nimuro and his clone confronted each other in the Kitsu Tombs, and no one in universe is too sure who walked out. However, Nimuro did step down as a Lion, becoming a ronin so he could hunt down Turi once and for all and kill him. Whether he succeeded or not? Well, the Legion of Two Thousand got very good, and Tamago refuses to explain what happened to his arm.

Thank god for that. I tend to blank out/rage/cringe whenever stupid parts of L5R canon get brought up, most of which are things that happen during and or after Naseru's reign. Hence, the mantra which me and my fellow GMs tend to follow.
 
Rokguan your way is so great for allowing that. That said I think further discussion of canon old or new should go to the general l5r thread.
 
Uh while the Lion Clan Championship is politically fucked up. I wasn't quite planning to use the whole 'I made a clone of myself in defiance of common sense and proceeded to have no plans for my clone replacing me' version of events for what happened to Nimuro. Overall, I try not to go all 'fix fic' for canon although at this point you can hardly do worse than Iweko did by now.

That said, I do employ fairly liberal versions of the butterfly effect (As evidenced by Yoshino still being too young to inherit)
With Naseru being more competent and having an actual heir. The butteflies from that are that Naseru's canon wife is around to do more things in the Lion.

Meta. Nimuro didn't make a clone of himself, not intentionally. However Matsu Turi the Dark Oracle of Water did, and Nimuro and his clone confronted each other in the Kitsu Tombs, and no one in universe is too sure who walked out. However, Nimuro did step down as a Lion, becoming a ronin so he could hunt down Turi once and for all and kill him. Whether he succeeded or not? Well, the Legion of Two Thousand got very good, and Tamago refuses to explain what happened to his arm.
That's a lot cooler.
 
Year 3: Cabinet Meetings and Lion Summit
-Summon the leaders of both factions.

You don't have enough information and it's unlikely Korin will be able to help here. The Ikoma simply was too committed to neutrality to get close to either side.

"Ikoma-san, I will agree to arbitrate this dispute. However, I will not do so without hearing the case made by both sides. Send messages to the leaders of both factions to meet me in one month's time at Toshi Ranbo." You say.

"Hai, thank you my Emperor, we will ride at once to send the messages. Akodo Shigetoshi-sama and Matsu Satomi-sama will arrive in time." Korin declares.

The man and his party kow-tow again before departing.

Kotaro watches them go.
"The Matsu will be ill disposed to let the Championship go, the line of Akodo now sits on the Imperial throne. It is only right that the Matsu sit as their right hand" He says.

Akane sniffs.
"That is their belief, but the right hand of Akodo-no-kami was always Lord Ikoma, not Lady Matsu"

"Would that Ikoma Tsanuri-shiryo had left an heir." Kotaro comments laconically.

"Perhaps, but it is no help now. We ride for the Capital" You say.

Your companions nod as you resume your journey.
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Year 3, 30th day of the month of the Hare

"Would that we had more time to sit around and discuss this my Counsellors but as it stands, we have very little time to debate this. The Lion Summit promises to take up much of my attention soon. However, given that in a mere three years, we will likely being fighting for our lives, I am loathe to put off the central planning for the year any longer."

You steeple your fingers.

"Therefore, I ask of you for advice as to how to strengthen the Empire in preparation for the coming war."

Akane takes a deep breath and speaks. "With internal tensions at least somewhat stabilized at present, I believe that the time has come to begin making tentative contacts with other powers in the Burning Sands and the northern Vales. Allies, or even just knowledge of what we are against would be invaluable"

You nod and tilt your head to Kakita Noritoshi.

"With the...generous donated labour of the Kaiu and the Crab, it is entirely possible for us to direct our efforts towards fortification. While the Unicorn are unlikely to grant us full access, or indeed even like us doing anything to the Khol wall, the fact remains that with the Kaiu we could fortify that wall beyond anything north of the Carpenter Wall in the South. Furthermore in doing this we could lay down new roads and ensure our logistics are in check"

"I must protest this expenditure" Hiroko looks like someone force fed her a lemon with vinegar to drink.
She looks around. "The Emperor at present has nothing to fear for his personal expenditures to be clear, but on the whole, even with the Crab donation there is very little room in the treasury for new expenditures. If the Emperor wishes to continue his course, we must reform trade and begin to promoting the growth of the people in order to continue"

"Strange considering it was your attempt---" Noritoshi begins.

Akane smoothly manages to cut off the Crane before he promotes another fight.
"Yoritomo-san, you say we must reform trade and promote growth, how would you do this?"

"If I had the means, I would sever us from the rice standard entirely. As it is. I wish to grant Imperial charters to several cities, roads and rivers in the Empire. These charters would exempt merchants from taxation entirely"

"That is madness" Noritoshi says.

You have to admit that he has a point. To move off the rice standard? Not taxing merchants? What lunacy was this. The entire point of merchants was to move stuff and to pay you for the privilege of doing so.

Hiroko slams her hand down.
"It is innovation Kakita-san of the kind we need. Merchants will use these areas and as they get more and more rich, they will pour more and more koku into the coffers of the locals, who we will tax. I am aware that the Kakita push all of their---

"Enough" Shem-zhe says cutting off Hiroko before she can cause a duel.

"Indeed Horiuchi-san is right. Uncle, you have been oddly quiet, tell me what would you have us do."

Kaneka looks up from the small netsuke he was playing with in his hand.
"I won't say that my plan is anymore likely to make Yoritomo-san happy. But I want a free hand to reform the legions. It will cost, if nothing else political capital. However, it needs to be done."

"I will take that under advisement...Horiuchi-san?"

"Emperor the Grand Conclave needs to be called, your efforts with Kisada-no-kami have proven fruitful, but it has only further divided the sects against each other. Another year, two at the outside, before we see things escalate to violence."

Problems, problems everywhere....still you need to make a decision

[] Eyes and ears in foreign places will be good for the Empire as a whole. You will endeavour to have Akane and Kotaro work towards getting you said eyes and ears (TN 25 65% Chance. +5 to Unicorn, Mantis. -5 Lion, Crane)

[] You've forced the Crab to give you the finest architects in the Empire. Time to make use of this, even if it angers the Unicorn. That wall on their borders is your first and best defence (TN 20, 93% Chance. +5 Lion, Crab. -5 to Unicorn, Dragon.)


[] You need an army worthy of the name. Even if it will anger many, you intend to give your uncle a free hand in making the Imperial Legion live up to the legacy of your Grandfather. (TN 20, 54% Chance) (+5 to Lion, Crab, Unicorn. -5 Scorpion, Crane, Phoenix)

[] While the idea of moving off the rice standard is complete insanity. The notion of these 'charters' has some merit. It's really just taxing people for providing things for merchants. You think you can sell it, although...yeah, you're going to take a hit on this (TN 30, 16% Chance. +10 to Mantis, +5 to Unicorn. -5 to Lion, Crane, Crab)

[] The spiritual is as important as the physical, if your monks and priests are arguing with themselves, how can they minister to your people? No time to focus on taking care of that side of things. (TN 20, 49% chance.) (+10 to Dragon, Phoenix. -5 Unicorn, Lion, Scorpion, Mantis)

"I have made my decision...."

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Year 3 16th day of the Dragon

You can't sleep. This doesn't usually happen to you, the long day of ceremony, filing, judging, training, and everything else, well that's enough to tire any man out. So why are you looking up at the ceiling with your wife no where near you?

Well, if you were being honest, it was mostly Kaname's fault. You had told her about the summit of course, you had told her that you intended to listen to both sides and decide things equitably and properly. She had even agreed you were showing judgement.

Which makes it all the stranger what happened doesn't it? The summit was meant to begin tomorrow, with the Matsu and Akodo delegations having arrived a few days ago. Everything was going according to plan...and then somehow, Kaname and Matsu Satomi had ended up fighting. Servants reported that the words 'treasonous bitch' and 'weak whore' had been thrown around...and that was the mild version.

Regardless of how it happened, the net result was that Kaname had methodically taken Satomi apart and put the older Matsu woman into the infirmary. Leading the Matsu delegation to demand concessions or they were prepared to seppukku and call off the talks.

A part of you is far too pleased at the strength of your wife. The rest of you is quietly exasperated. Kaname had been...better about her opinions being expressed, but she hadn't really changed her views. Piecing it together, you saw that Kaname had attempted no doubt to try and convince Satomi that it was better for the competing lines to be united and Shigetoshi given the Championship after he adopted Yoshiro as his heir.

And Satomi, being a Matsu had taken the worst possible interpretation of that. That she would sell out her flesh and blood for 'favours' and well that was an insult even to the Scorpion.

You sit up, you can't sleep, it's no use in trying. Still as Lady Moon hangs in the sky, you suppose you could go do something...

[] Go check in on your wife. Satomi got wrecked, but Kaname was hurt a little.
[] Go see if your daughter is awake, she probably is the little hellion
[] Go talk to one of your advisors (Write in)
[] Go for a walk around the palace to calm yourself
[] Go talk to Matsu Satomi
[] Go talk to Akodo Shigetoshi
 
[X] Go see if your daughter is awake, she probably is the little hellion

[X] The spiritual is as important as the physical, if your monks and priests are arguing with themselves, how can they minister to your people? No time to focus on taking care of that side of things. (TN 20, 49% chance.) (+10 to Dragon, Phoenix. -5 Unicorn, Lion, Scorpion, Mantis)

Don't like dinging the people we will need in the upcoming war, but thems the breaks.
 
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So.. it comes down to what we need, what we can afford, and what we can actually achieve.

Needs:
- Sounds like The Grand Conclave (Void) needs to get done before the Golems hit. It doesn't have to be immediate, but it's a not-if-but-when.
- Earth and Fire options would both be Really Useful To Have in the upcoming fight. Fire has some real value for long-term benefits, too (and not *just* because Uncle is awesome and deserves a reward).
- The Air option could be really handy if it goes well, and it's something that should be done now if we're going to do it at all. These things take time to come to proper fruition. There's a decent chance ti works, too.
- Our money situation is... not good. It's likely to *stay* not good until and unless we go for some matter of mercantile reform. Also, our treasurer is getting increasingly frustrated with our lack of support, and not without reason. Also also, we keep seeing ways that we could make certain problems far less problematic if we could just afford to throw around some serious money to make it happen. That's going to keep being a thing until we start to fix it so that it's not a thing.

Affords:
- Our monetary situation is still not good. We're doing okay for now, but the Earth and Fire options (highly valuable for other reasons) and expensive in a way that we can't choke down without pain.
- Clan ratings are actually doing reasonably well (assuming that the 1st page is accurate for now). Looks like the whole assassination thing may have bought us some breathing room. Lowest clans currently are Mantis with 30, and Crane and Scorpion with 35. Of those clans... The Crane don't like *anything*, and dislike Air, Fire and Water. The Mantis like Air, and they *really* like water, but they don't like Void. The Scorpion also don't like anything, and dislike Fire and Void. Also, it's noted in the descriptions that Fore says it "will anger many", and Water says "you're going to take a hit on this". I have a suspicion that that's talking about more than just the printed numbers. Also, our various locks are about to run out, and everyone is above them right now.

- I'd be seriously tempted to go Water this time, for the money, for the Mantis support, and so forth, but that TN 30 is pretty punishing (admittedly, the two banked free raises make it not quite as terrible as it might otherwise be).
- Building the wall is *easy*, but I don't want to push our finances any more than we already have without somehow building them up first.
- Air's pretty easy, and it's not super-costly. It also... might or might not be worthwhile. Maybe some information, maybe some allies. Maybe even some more trade coming through (...although that's a stretch). It also might not be anything, or if it is something, might not be much. I think I may be unfairly biased against it, but I keep feeling like other things are much more important.
- Fire is very, very worthwhile, and a definite possibility, and will make our treasury whimper. I would rather not make our treasury whimper.
- Void is something we're going to have to do, and it's not so very expensive.

I think, overall, that I'd be tempted to go Void this turn, and hope that Hiroko can come up with something a *bit* more manageable next turn. If we can pull the Conclave off right, that'll give us a bit more influence/legitimacy, hopefully? That might make some of these political pulls a bit easier. Overall, my inclination would be to try to go for some sort of mercantile reforms next turn (if ti looks plausible), and then reform the Legions the turn after that, once we have money? I'm not feeling super-confident about this in general, and would welcome others to present opposing viewpoints.

@gman391 - I assume that the Crab contributions will be put to good use somehow (though perhaps not as effectively) even if we don't make it the current focus, right?
 
[X] While the idea of moving off the rice standard is complete insanity. The notion of these 'charters' has some merit. It's really just taxing people for providing things for merchants. You think you can sell it, although...yeah, you're going to take a hit on this (TN 30, 16% Chance. +10 to Mantis, +5 to Unicorn. -5 to Lion, Crane, Crab)

[X] Go see if your daughter is awake, she probably is the little hellion
 
As for who to talk with... hmm.

The Matsu delegation came here knowing they were on the back foot. "Pick a fight with the Emperor's wife where you can pretend to be wronged" *is* within the capacity of the Matsu as a family. So is "en masse seppuku for the honor/advantage of the family".

...but this all seems kind of excessive, and we're currently preparing for a war against a foe who is *known* for their ability to infiltrate and influence, and who has clearly been doing just that. Also, they'll be coming through the Lion lands. This is in some ways convenient for the Matsu. This is in many more ways convenient for the Shadow Dragon.

[x] Go talk to one of your advisors
-[x] Horiuchi Shem-Zhe

If I was sure it was not outside interference, I'd likely go talk with Matsu Satome first, but it just seems so utterly plausible.

[X] While the idea of moving off the rice standard is complete insanity. The notion of these 'charters' has some merit. It's really just taxing people for providing things for merchants. You think you can sell it, although...yeah, you're going to take a hit on this (TN 30, 16% Chance. +10 to Mantis, +5 to Unicorn. -5 to Lion, Crane, Crab)

So... why go for the thing with a 16% listed chance of success? Please, toss me some discussion here.
 
[X] Go see if your daughter is awake, she probably is the little hellion
I think we might need to do the void option we cannot have another fight starting in our empire, I honestly feel like we're managing a kindergarten here how is everyone able to be so petty with the threats we are facing?
 
Urg I keep trying to vote void but then I look at it and feel bad for basing plans on a coin flip.
E: but I'm concerned about doing the Earth also
 
@Sirrocco
In the event you don't focus the Crab levy on one project...
The Crab levy will be put to use in a thousand different ways. But it won't be visible as a concentrated effect. While the people of Eastern Hub Village are super grateful about that new wall you built. No one else in the Empire really cares, same for most of the things you have them do. Useful things to be sure, but nothing that really sticks in the mind outside of the people in an immediate area.

@No7sHere
Two of the main motivating factors for people in Rokugan are Honour and Glory. Glory has a tendency to make people very petty. Honour also tends to lead to people taking things in the worst way possible. In an Honour based culture like Rokugan, you basically always have to be willing to stab a dude or they might not give you respect.
 
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Also if we actually manage to get the economy reformed and rebuild the imperial legions we might become known as one the empires greatest reformers, I'd really like to see what the empire could achieve if everyone would stop being stupid and actually work together.
 
So... why go for the thing with a 16% listed chance of success? Please, toss me some discussion here.
Ruining a country while in the process of preparing for war: We require an overhaul of the economy and as much as it is hated, we are currently in the position to pull it off politically as well as still have the time to build up our forces and defenses for the inevitable war.
So, as i see it, now is the best time to do these things who are, for the longer shot, necessary. I am aware that in a few years, all Rokugan may burn/turned to glass/whatever if we are not succesful, but we have to not only avert failure but also build for victory.

I am unlikely to respond to further requests of a discussion. I hate justifying my choices. This is not a choice between "good" and "evil". It is a choice between assigned chance-based choices with different outcomes. Of course our Earth-based or path-of-least-resistance choices will be popular, but will they be the best? Neither you nor i are in the position to know that, but we make presumptions. So i choose the "we need to change our economy radically so that in the future we can change it more gradually with less knee-jerking from the great clans". And the longer we wait the more i figure that we will have trouble making actual changes when the crisis is over, our great clans have dug in and do not have to deal with the currently unifying enemy from byond the border.
If you do not like the chances, we can always improve it with inserts.

Edit: I am leaving this standing, but it was a bit more venomous than intended, for which i apologise. It becomes an automatic knee-jerk situation for me to justify my choices in quests.
 
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Ruining a country while in the process of preparing for war: We require an overhaul of the economy and as much as it is hated, we are currently in the position to pull it off politically as well as still have the time to build up our forces and defenses for the inevitable war.
So, as i see it, now is the best time to do these things who are, for the longer shot, necessary. I am aware that in a few years, all Rokugan may burn/turned to glass/whatever if we are not succesful, but we have to not only avert failure but also build for victory.

I am unlikely to respond to further requests of a discussion. I hate justifying my choices. This is not a choice between "good" and "evil". It is a choice between assigned chance-based choices with different outcomes. Of course our Earth-based or path-of-least-resistance choices will be popular, but will they be the best? Neither you nor i are in the position to know that, but we make presumptions. So i choose the "we need to change our economy radically so that in the future we can change it more gradually with less knee-jerking from the great clans". And the longer we wait the more i figure that we will have trouble making actual changes when the crisis is over, our great clans have dug in and do not have to deal with the currently unifying enemy from byond the border.
If you do not like the chances, we can always improve it with inserts.
While I respect your right to not justify your choices ( Lord knows I use it enough on faster paced threads) I need to point out that no one has said anything about good or evil. Sirrocco was asking if you had seen a reason that that action was optimal that he had missed.
 
While I respect your right to not justify your choices ( Lord knows I use it enough on faster paced threads) I need to point out that no one has said anything about good or evil. Sirrocco was asking if you had seen a reason that that action was optimal that he had missed.
I hate justifying my choices in these quests. It becomes a knee-jerk reaction after awhile. So i may have come across as a bit more venomous than necessary, for which i apologise.
 
[X] The spiritual is as important as the physical, if your monks and priests are arguing with themselves, how can they minister to your people? No time to focus on taking care of that side of things. (TN 20, 49% chance.) (+10 to Dragon, Phoenix. -5 Unicorn, Lion, Scorpion, Mantis)

This has a reasonable chance of succeeding and lessens the chances of a religious schism on our watch. Because apparently it is on a timer.
Hopefully we can do something to raise money next turn.

[x] Go talk to one of your advisors
-[x] Horiuchi Shem-Zhe
 
I hate justifying my choices in these quests.

I really hadn't meant to demand that you justify things. I really *had* meant that I crave more thoughts to feed the analysis-engine, and since you'd read what I had to say and come up with a radically different answer, I figured you were thinking at least a few things that I wasn't. Unfortunately, our culture/language has seen so *many* people pretend to do that while actually trying to put folks on the spot to justify themselves (and thereby undercut them) that it's *really hard* to come up with a phrasing that says "No, really, I actually want to hear what you have to say, and would be delighted if it was compelling enough to change my mind." and doesn't come across as insincere. I actively tried when I was writing the request that spawned this all, and I went to bed knowing that I'd gotten at best halfway.

I completely agree that this isn't a good/evil thing. It's one of the reasons I want this sort of feedback - because with this quest, it's almost never going to be a "because you desire something I despise".

...also, something of a meta-reason. I see you voting against the tide a fair bit, and I was hoping to maybe cultivate a loyal opposition. Having a loyal opposition is *useful*.

as far as your actual argument... I see your point. I think we can afford to take non-expensive actions for the moment, but you definitely have a point, and if I thought that this was as good as it was going to get for water, I'd say t was just a suck it up and deal moment. I note a second argument/insight in the shadow of the first though, and it's *not* one I'd been thinking about (I honestly don't know if it was one you were thinking about). Failure can mean... many things in this game. Given the *source* of the high difficulty here, it's possible that a failure wouldn't be "nothing happens. wasted turn." or "You lose money." but "You have some success on the reforms, but Terrible Things happen politically." I'm sure that there exists a level of failure so dire that we'd take monetary losses, but the more likely cost is going to be political.

So... I think that Water is maybe worthwhile after all, given that, even if it's not going to get better later on. If we can at all afford it, then we want it. Our war will need sinews. The only question in my mind is whether to go with Water or Void first. (I don't think we can afford to take the legitimacy hit of letting the Brotherhood implode - especially not if we're also making mercantile reforms)

Oh, and @whydoyoubother - thank you for being willing to respond, even though it made you unhappy. I appreciate it.
 
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Warning: The following is a theorem based on personal opnion:
A generic truth of this game is that we have been getting away with a lot of politically drastically things against the will/conform of the Great Clans for two simple reasons:
1. We are inexperienced.
2. We are Toturi
That does not mean that we are incapable of doing the job, it means that, at least in my opinion, it seems that the Great clans were much, much more lenient to our demands and decisions.
No Crane-Wife (for example)? Any other bloodline or a more experienced Emporer and we would have felt a way, way heavier storm of resistance against our actions.
This is year 3 of our reign. Our decisions have been a rollercoaster of excitement, some of them more and some of them less popular.
But we are running out of the 1. reason.
We have shown ourselves as a Storm of innovation, but not to the point where we can hang on several more years, fight a mayor war and then still fix our economy as drastically as our Imperial Treasurer (Is it possible she is Kolat? She sounds Kolat) tells us it should be fixed. At least not without the Great Clans going into a fit of rage and our replacement healthy and pliable and with our brother of age to "take over as reluctant regent".
I can see the argument why we should do it after a mayor victory. But i would rather do the first step now, fail and then later know who should be sent on heroic suicidal charges to the frontline, who can be persuaded/bribed/dealt with and who shows some further insight we can deal with over the next years, preparing our bill of economic change.
 
Hiroko is not Kolat, but Mantis have always been somewhat more 'innovate like mad' in their quest to match up to the Great Clans.

The Toturi are in sort of an odd position in that so far every one of them, has justified their position by virtue of being just that damn good. Hisao is well on his way towards that but he's not quite there yet. However, because of that, while the Clans are quite willing to play the game of court, everyone has a psychological expectation that at some point Hisao is going to be brilliant...and everyone who pissed him off is going to be very sorry.
 
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