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Belated Battleships (KanColle) [REHOST]

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I never said I wasn't biased now did I? :V

That, and I still maintain the Littorio-class is hilariously underrated by most people. In fact, let's have a short little...

History with Sky-Sensei.

(because why not call it that :V )

Now, the Littorio class is arguably the best armored battleship (pound for pound) in the entire war. Italian industry and shell quality trends towards making people assume their armor is equally as crappy. Now, while I hardly deny that their industrial quality sucked or that the shells were iffy, Italian armor was always, always held to a much higher standard. They had some of the best quality control around for armor plates on warships. This is evident in both the Littorio and the Zara designs. Zara, for what it's worth, is the absolute best armored cruiser design until Des Moines. Both because of layout and quality of the plate.

Which, on that note, leads into the first major point:

1. Italian plate quality

People like pointing to the Germans or the Brits as having the best steel armor in the second World War. Equally, people like pointing at Class A armor and the Japanese armor as being less than it should be and downright garbage respectively. If anyone remembers French or Italian armor it's a footnote at best. Which is doing a hilarious disservice to the Italians, at the least. Can't say for sure on the French. But Italian armor? Hoo boy, do people need to look at it more.

While the tests available are relatively limited, all indications are that Italian plate is arguably the best in the world. No joke, even Nathan Okun- the closest to the Jesus of Armor Plate you can find -says that. In fact, let's quote him:

"The basic plate steel quality is higher at 0.98 than British World War II CA, too, which makes it the best battleship-grade face-hardened armor made in World War II! Very well thought out. This design, combined with the specified use of spaced decapping plates in the armor belt, indicates that Italian naval armor design was very advanced and second to none. "

This is not a misquote or an exaggeration. The Littorio-class armor quality is arguably the best in the world. Sure, their belt isn't as thick as a KGV. Sure, it isn't as angled as an Iowa. But they have quality advantages over both, if less so over the KGV-armor. Regardless, Littorio has the best armor, pound for pound, in the world. Which leads into...

2. Italian design

As quoted above, the Littorio design has a rather...complex...setup. This harms their deck armor, admittedly. Overcomplicated and not very good. Their belt though? When I say this could stop a Super-16, I mean it quite literally. The Italian design has a decapping plate that is, more or less, two inches thick. This plate will take the cap off any armor piercing shell that hits it. And if it doesn't take the cap clean off, it will deform it something fierce. Once the shell gets through this plate, it then has a bit of a gap (spaced armor ho!) before it hits the belt that is still about 11-inches (280mm) thick. This belt is, again, the best quality armor there is in WW2. So what happens when a shell that has lost its armor-piercing cap hits a belt that thick, of that good quality steel?

If you say 'doesn't penetrate' you would be right. In a close-quarters battle, very few things are getting through the belt of a Littorio.

To once more quote Okun:

"The outer decapping plate consisted of a 2.76" (70 mm) PO armor plate laminated to a 0.39" (10 mm) ER plate. There was 9.84" (250 mm) empty space and then the 11.02" (280 mm) face-hardened belt plate. The belt plate was of constant thickness at all points, unlike most foreign designs, which tapered below the waterline at their bottoms. This entire construct was tilted outboard by 8o to increase the minimum striking obliquity. The spaced plates in front of the main armor would definitely knock the AP cap off of any impacting projectile and would cause about 25 feet/second (7.6 m/sec) velocity loss when the main belt was hit."

This is specifically talking about Bismarck's shells, but the same could apply to anything up to, and including, non-super-16s. Now, it's obviously impossible to say for any real certainty if they could stop the big shells. But it's a good bet to make, at least.

The major flaw, of course, with the Italian design is their relatively crappy deck armor. Not the worst, but far from the best. Then again, these were ships intended to only fight in the Med and never outside it. So close is the name of the game, and at close range, that armor is stopping most anything.

And for fighting back?

3. Main guns

The 'Italians can't hit for crap' meme is, well, a meme. It's true enough some of the designs have issues (Zara has her guns too close in the turrets, which carried over to the Soviet Kirov, and makes dispersion a crapshoot sometimes) but the Littorio isn't one of them. A lot of the problems with her guns come down to the shell quality, not the velocity. When you have proper, good quality shells...these guns are very accurate and very hard hitting. Possibly the hardest hitting of any 15-inch gun ever designed. In fact, according to NavWeaps, we're talking a penetration of at least 12-inches of armor at nearly 30k yards. It may not be the best armor, but still...

If you give them proper shells, the Littorio is going through most battleships while most BBs aren't going through her.

Since I need to get to bed, I'll leave off here for now. TL;DR for those who don't care...

Pasta BB is underrated, she has really good armor and (with good shells) excellent guns. :p
 
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Skywalker_T-65 said:

I never said I wasn't biased now did I? :V

That, and I still maintain the Littorio-class is hilariously underrated by most people. In fact, let's have a short little...

History with Sky-Sensei.

(because why not call it that :V )

Now, the Littorio class is arguably the best armored battleship (pound for pound) in the entire war. Italian industry and shell quality trends towards making people assume their armor is equally as crappy. Now, while I hardly deny that their industrial quality sucked or that the shells were iffy, Italian armor was always, always held to a much higher standard. They had some of the best quality control around for armor plates on warships. This is evident in both the Littorio and the Zara designs. Zara, for what it's worth, is the absolute best armored cruiser design until Des Moines. Both because of layout and quality of the plate.

Which, on that note, leads into the first major point:

1. Italian plate quality

People like pointing to the Germans or the Brits as having the best steel armor in the second World War. Equally, people like pointing at Class A armor and the Japanese armor as being less than it should be and downright garbage respectively. If anyone remembers French or Italian armor it's a footnote at best. Which is doing a hilarious disservice to the Italians, at the least. Can't say for sure on the French. But Italian armor? Hoo boy, do people need to look at it more.

While the tests available are relatively limited, all indications are that Italian plate is arguably the best in the world. No joke, even Nathan Okun- the closest to the Jesus of Armor Plate you can find -says that. In fact, let's quote him:

"The basic plate steel quality is higher at 0.98 than British World War II CA, too, which makes it the best battleship-grade face-hardened armor made in World War II! Very well thought out. This design, combined with the specified use of spaced decapping plates in the armor belt, indicates that Italian naval armor design was very advanced and second to none. "

This is not a misquote or an exaggeration. The Littorio-class armor quality is arguably the best in the world. Sure, their belt isn't as thick as a KGV. Sure, it isn't as angled as an Iowa. But they have quality advantages over both, if less so over the KGV-armor. Regardless, Littorio has the best armor, pound for pound, in the world. Which leads into...

2. Italian design

As quoted above, the Littorio design has a rather...complex...setup. This harms their deck armor, admittedly. Overcomplicated and not very good. Their belt though? When I say this could stop a Super-16, I mean it quite literally. The Italian design has a decapping plate that is, more or less, two inches thick. This plate will take the cap off any armor piercing shell that hits it. And if it doesn't take the cap clean off, it will deform it something fierce. Once the shell gets through this plate, it then has a bit of a gap (spaced armor ho!) before it hits the belt that is still about 11-inches (280mm) thick. This belt is, again, the best quality armor there is in WW2. So what happens when a shell that has lost its armor-piercing cap hits a belt that thick, of that good quality steel?

If you say 'doesn't penetrate' you would be right. In a close-quarters battle, very few things are getting through the belt of a Littorio.

To once more quote Okun:

"The outer decapping plate consisted of a 2.76" (70 mm) PO armor plate laminated to a 0.39" (10 mm) ER plate. There was 9.84" (250 mm) empty space and then the 11.02" (280 mm) face-hardened belt plate. The belt plate was of constant thickness at all points, unlike most foreign designs, which tapered below the waterline at their bottoms. This entire construct was tilted outboard by 8o to increase the minimum striking obliquity. The spaced plates in front of the main armor would definitely knock the AP cap off of any impacting projectile and would cause about 25 feet/second (7.6 m/sec) velocity loss when the main belt was hit."

This is specifically talking about Bismarck's shells, but the same could apply to anything up to, and including, non-super-16s. Now, it's obviously impossible to say for any real certainty if they could stop the big shells. But it's a good bet to make, at least.

The major flaw, of course, with the Italian design is their relatively crappy deck armor. Not the worst, but far from the best. Then again, these were ships intended to only fight in the Med and never outside it. So close is the name of the game, and at close range, that armor is stopping most anything.

And for fighting back?

3. Main guns

The 'Italians can't hit for crap' meme is, well, a meme. It's true enough some of the designs have issues (Zara has her guns too close in the turrets, which carried over to the Soviet Kirov, and makes dispersion a crapshoot sometimes) but the Littorio isn't one of them. A lot of the problems with her guns come down to the shell quality, not the velocity. When you have proper, good quality shells...these guns are very accurate and very hard hitting. Possibly the hardest hitting of any 15-inch gun ever designed. In fact, according to NavWeaps, we're talking a penetration of at least 12-inches of armor at nearly 30k yards. It may not be the best armor, but still...

If you give them proper shells, the Littorio is going through most battleships while most BBs aren't going through her.

Since I need to get to bed, I'll leave off here for now. TL;DR for those who don't care...

Pasta BB is underrated, she has really good armor and (with good shells) excellent guns. :p
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I'd say it's probably one of the most aesthetically pleasing as well (at least for me), barring the superstructure, but I've always liked minimalist superstructures as my repeatedly expressed appreciation for the Zumwalts has shown.
 
Italy has beautiful ships, fast cars, and beyond-incredible food. Fail to see the downside in any of that. :D
 
Skywalker_T-65 said:
Pasta BB is underrated, she has really good armor and (with good shells) excellent guns.
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Italia and Roma are almost on par with Iowa in terms of stats in the game. They do have a fairly heavy cost for sortie-ing but I do love me some pasta, so they get lots of use. Italia even has high luck (due to surviving). Roma, not so much.
 
Ah, Silent Hunter...one of my favorite games! I'm playing SH4 at the moment, in late September 1943 in a USN campaign. Currently have just over 700,000 tons to my credit, including three battleships, a carrier, and two heavy cruisers. Captain's rank, two CMHs, 7 Navy Crosses, 4 Silver Stars, and other various awards to show for it.
 
ijnfleetadmiral said:
Ah, Silent Hunter...one of my favorite games! I'm playing SH4 at the moment, in late September 1943 in a USN campaign. Currently have just over 700,000 tons to my credit, including three battleships, a carrier, and two heavy cruisers. Captain's rank, two CMHs, 7 Navy Crosses, 4 Silver Stars, and other various awards to show for it.
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Actually, that's Atlantic Fleet. By Killer Fish games. They also made Cold Waters, aka staring at submarines simulator
 
Burning Baron said:
Oh yes. I had to pull some really tense maneuvers in shallow water, under an ice sheet. Three Soviet attack subs were right on top of me. But I somehow escaped.
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To be honest, when i first saw the trailer i thought it was going to be Atlantic Fleet with Cold War ships. I was a bit disappointed when i found out otherwise, but still, the game got me interested and ive been enjoying it ever since. Its not as hardcore as Silent Hunter but still plenty challenging.
 
Rampantfury said:
To be honest, when i first saw the trailer i thought it was going to be Atlantic Fleet with Cold War ships. I was a bit disappointed when i found out otherwise, but still, the game got me interested and ive been enjoying it ever since. Its not as hardcore as Silent Hunter but still plenty challenging.
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I haven't played Silent Hunter but that seems fun.

Also, CVEs are basically my baes in campaign.
 
B-baka! said:
I haven't played Silent Hunter but that seems fun.
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If you're into World War II submarine simulators, Silent Hunter III and Silent Hunter IV are AWESOME. If you get Silent Hunter III, make sure to download the Grey Wolves Expansion pack. It takes an already epically-awesome game and makes it a thousand times better.
 
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