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Belated Battleships (KanColle) [REHOST]

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Thor?

Just for reference, on account of the problems you've already mentioned, I'm going to spell out exactly what I would do, if I were in your shoes. That is to say, if I knew exactly the things you appear to know (and not know).

I would read this post:

LudicrousSpeedGo said:
Do the research. Who would see a Marianas strike first: tokyo, or the Bonins fleet...
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And I would go "Hm... this person is pointing out something about geography." They would not have said what they said, if they were not trying to tell me something.

So I would look for information on geography. I would open a new browser tab, and google "Marianas." I would click the first link I see, which is the link to the Wikipedia article on the Marianas. Then I would open another tab, and google "Bonins"

Now, the article on the Bonins has a particularly beautiful colored map right at the top of the page, labeling the various groups of islands that make up the Bonin Islands as a whole. And if you stop to look at the map, you notice that it says "Marianas" in the southeast corner.

I would stop and think about this for a moment, then I would realize... Hey wait... if Japan is northwest of the Bonin Islands... and the Marianas are southeast...

That means that the Bonins are BETWEEN Japan and the Marianas! Wow, that is what that guy was talking about! No wonder he said 'do the research' when I missed such a basic fact about geography! If the Abyssals were flying out of the Marianas, OF COURSE a fleet operating around the Bonins would already know about it!

...

Now, if it was ME, I would remember bits and pieces of the history of World War II and remember that the Marianas islands were captured before any of the Bonin islands (like Iwo Jima). I would also remember that Iwo Jima was captured specifically as a base for fighters to escort US bombers, and for damaged bombers to land on.

But you might honestly not know these things... until now. Which is fine. Or you might know these things, in which case you should think things through.

But the point is, read the damn Wikipedia articles on things before you try to participate in a conversation that is based on knowing what the heck you are talking about. It's okay to forget one or two things once in a while, but you're missing basic, critical facts about things almost every time you make a facts-based post.

That's not Asperger's. That's just plain lazy.



...

Also, while we're at it, Thor... stop using long designations for aircraft.. It makes you look like you're trying to pretend to know something you do not know. The sentence:

"Shinano scrambles what she has in terms of fighters, which will work in conjecture with JASDF F-4J Phantoms, F-15J Eagles, and F-2A Viper Zeroes. However"

should read:

"Shinano scrambles what she has in terms of fighters, which will work in conjunction with JASDF aircraft."

Do you know why? Because it does not matter one bit which types of aircraft the Japanese military operates. That information is completely irrelevant to anything you're saying. So do not take up all that space to provide it. It makes you look bad.

Just... never do that. Never call something an "A-10A Thunderbolt II" when calling it an "A-10" will do the job.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I... I...

I think he just did.

That said, the leveling effect will translate this into having the effect of a 250-pound World War Two armor-piercing bomb. That might go through the deck of a Lexington-class battlecruiser as designed. But it is very likely that Atomic Battlecruiser Princess, being the notional 1943-refit version of this notional ship, has a reinforced deck, so I would still consider SDBs marginal against her.
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A 250-pound AP bomb would be a marginal performer against her deck armor, granted, but it would be rather efficient at tearing up a number of important things that are above the deck armor--most notably, the engine uptakes, though it would probably do a pretty good number on a lot of stuff involved in the secondary battery and, if the splinters have enough energy, the fire controls, particularly if they structurally undermine the tower masts.

The big thing, however, is that, with a steam-powered ship, if the uptakes are riddled with splinters, you end up with two major problems. First, you lose draft for the fire, making it burn colder and not as cleanly, resulting in lower boiler pressure to power the ship. Secondly, you end up with the fire's exhaust gases and smoke not being piped out the top of the stack, but instead, if riddled below the top of the superstructure, venting into the ship itself, which will quickly render large portions of the ship uninhabitable for the crew, between heat, smoke inhalation injuries, and carbon monoxide poisoning. US battleships of the pre-Treaty era spent some of their weight on heavy armor for the uptakes, specifically to prevent that sort of thing--but the Lexingtons had to dispense with it to free up weight for more powerful engines, representing a point of vulnerability.

Honestly, what Thor suggested is something I should have thought of myself--it's essentially the same as the concept behind the pre-dreadnought battleships, which were designed to fight at close range, with the slow-firing big guns trying for individual hits of crippling effect, while the medium battery (6-8 inches... meaning shells right about the size of an SDB) smothered the ship with a rain of shells intended to erode the ship's ability to fight through destroying and disabling secondary systems. The only reason All-or-Nothing armor became a thing again in the teens was because fire control had pushed combat ranges to the point where the medium battery was no longer viable; defending against that sort of attack requires the sort of mixed-armor package that the earlier battleships had, with medium armor over much of the ship. Abyssara doesn't have that; she will be as vulnerable to it as the first armored battleships of the 1880s were when someone installed the first medium battery on a battleship.

Of course, given that this is Belated Battleships and not Belated Strategic Bombers o_O, I expect this to be a fairly moot point. (That said, I'd certainly try tasking one of the Bones to drop one bomb bay full of SDBs on each of the surviving Atlantas, then the third and any externals on Abyssara, just on the grounds that it sure as hell can't hurt to try!)
 
rdfox said:
A 250-pound AP bomb would be a marginal performer against her deck armor, granted, but it would be rather efficient at tearing up a number of important things that are above the deck armor--most notably, the engine uptakes, though it would probably do a pretty good number on a lot of stuff involved in the secondary battery and, if the splinters have enough energy, the fire controls, particularly if they structurally undermine the tower masts.

The big thing, however, is that, with a steam-powered ship, if the uptakes are riddled with splinters, you end up with two major problems. First, you lose draft for the fire, making it burn colder and not as cleanly, resulting in lower boiler pressure to power the ship. Secondly, you end up with the fire's exhaust gases and smoke not being piped out the top of the stack, but instead, if riddled below the top of the superstructure, venting into the ship itself, which will quickly render large portions of the ship uninhabitable for the crew, between heat, smoke inhalation injuries, and carbon monoxide poisoning. US battleships of the pre-Treaty era spent some of their weight on heavy armor for the uptakes, specifically to prevent that sort of thing--but the Lexingtons had to dispense with it to free up weight for more powerful engines, representing a point of vulnerability.

Honestly, what Thor suggested is something I should have thought of myself--it's essentially the same as the concept behind the pre-dreadnought battleships, which were designed to fight at close range, with the slow-firing big guns trying for individual hits of crippling effect, while the medium battery (6-8 inches... meaning shells right about the size of an SDB) smothered the ship with a rain of shells intended to erode the ship's ability to fight through destroying and disabling secondary systems. The only reason All-or-Nothing armor became a thing again in the teens was because fire control had pushed combat ranges to the point where the medium battery was no longer viable; defending against that sort of attack requires the sort of mixed-armor package that the earlier battleships had, with medium armor over much of the ship. Abyssara doesn't have that; she will be as vulnerable to it as the first armored battleships of the 1880s were when someone installed the first medium battery on a battleship.

Of course, given that this is Belated Battleships and not Belated Strategic Bombers o_O, I expect this to be a fairly moot point. (That said, I'd certainly try tasking one of the Bones to drop one bomb bay full of SDBs on each of the surviving Atlantas, then the third and any externals on Abyssara, just on the grounds that it sure as hell can't hurt to try!)
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That equals to a literal shit ton of bombs for that particular B-1B, considering that they can carry 96 of the things internally, combined with external stores that number goes up to like 144. That is a ton of bombs, way more than the JASDF dropped on one of those Orions in A Certain Lady. So yeah, target saturation for the win! Besides hopefully it will work.
 
Simon_Jester said:
On a side note, I'm not sure I like calling the Abyssal Lexington-class "the traitor."

This isn't Saratoga. She has some of the memories (implanted?) and an attitude driven by a dark-side interpretation of Saratoga's, but she's not the real ship. She cannot be, because Saratoga wasn't ever a battlecruiser with 16" guns, and she certainly wasn't ever a battlecruiser that received a 1943 refit job.

The entity I've been calling Atomic Battlecruiser Princess is not, and never was, a ship of the United States Navy. No more so than Northern Princess, the Habakkuk-carrier, was ever a ship of the Royal Navy.

Atomic Battlecruiser Princess is no more a traitor to the US, even if she thinks she is, than Northern Princess was a traitor to Britain. And more to the point, Saratoga is not a traitor. Based on the evidence to date, she is at most the victim of some kind of illicit cloning experiment.

EDIT:
If we were dealing with a traitorous Saratoga, then it'd be her off the coast of Japan hammering Shinano and the light carriers with the Abyssal version of Hellcats, Avengers, and Corsairs. And we'd have... I don't even know what... attacking the Caribbean.
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Also, before I forget:

This. So very much this.

I'll be the first to admit I have more personal reasons for it than most, but it gets a bit...frustrating when people refer to the Abyssal as Sara or a traitor. It isn't her, it never will be her, and calling it her is doing a disservice.

Though I'll also be the first to admit I'd have precisely zero issue if this opened up Sara herself coming back as a battlecruiser since carriers are off-limits. But that's me :V
 
Thorthemighty said:
That equals to a literal shit ton of bombs for that particular B-1B, considering that they can carry 96 of the things internally, combined with external stores that number goes up to like 144. That is a ton of bombs, way more than the JASDF dropped on one of those Orions in A Certain Lady. So yeah, target saturation for the win! Besides hopefully it will work.
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The catch is the leveling effect. Does it affect the plane, the munitions, or both? My money's on the answer being "both" or "whichever is worse."

In which case, three B-1s dropping a swarm of SDBs will have about the same effect on Atomic Battlecruiser Princess that three B-29s carpet-bombing her with 250 lb bombs would... maybe some, but not much.

I'd feel better about the same bombers boring in to drop bigger bombs in a single attack, because that would more resemble the kind of things that actually sink WWII warships, namely dive and torpedo bombing attacks.

Skywalker_T-65 said:
Also, before I forget:

This. So very much this.

I'll be the first to admit I have more personal reasons for it than most, but it gets a bit...frustrating when people refer to the Abyssal as Sara or a traitor. It isn't her, it never will be her, and calling it her is doing a disservice.

Though I'll also be the first to admit I'd have precisely zero issue if this opened up Sara herself coming back as a battlecruiser since carriers are off-limits. But that's me :V
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That would be the Abyssals setting them up for TWO Obi-Wan gambits in the same campaign, with a side order of "Defeat Equals Friendship," and would be hilarious and lovely.
 
Thorthemighty said:
It did, but I was thinking what could the aircraft raid be composed of that it didn't cross my mind.
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Thor, did you read my post at the top of this page?

It was addressed directly to you, and it is full of very important things you need to know.

Please read it, and take it seriously. If you learn the lessons it contains, everyone will be happier, and you will have more respect.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Thor, did you read my post at the top of this page?
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It appears not. I'd cite the Dunning-Kruger Effect, but this is just purposeful ignorance. And I think he's muted anyone who disagrees with his blatantly incorrect "information" and chronic need to explain the joke. Aspergers? I get it. But doing so repeatedly is not needed in the slightest.
 
You know what?

B-1s can also air drop mines (Mk 60 or similar). Bombing Atomic Battlecruiser Princess may be difficult. .. but what about penning her up? We don't actually need to sink Abyssals to win.
 
Meanwhile, in unrelated news, I am working away at figuring out how best to have Yavuz momboat Pringles.
 
Heh.

But yes, Skype. Yavuz is pretty much the best one around for Pringles. A German who is more attached to another nation, and actually the single oldest ship girl around right now if one uses time in commission. And doesn't count Jersey's hallucination of Victory. Lasted from 1912 (when she entered service as SMS Goeben) right up to the 1950s.

Plenty of time to develop momboat instincts.
 
Yavuz would definitely be the best for Pringles here. The lass is making friends, yes, but you can't go wrong with momboating. :D

 
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