Which would mean that stuff like SM-2s would work better than Harpoons because they can be set to Semi-Active Homing, but unless you are shooting at a Destroyer, Protected Cruiser, Destroyer Escort, Corvette, Frigate, and some classes of Light Cruiser an SM-2 is going to do diddy crap against an Abyssal. Plus you would still need to fire a large number of number of them for it to be effective.
To expand on what the author just said... The leveling effect isn't some kind of specific "jams radar" thing. It's a "things work as well as equally good hardware would have worked seventy years ago" thing. It's not mechanical.

There is no mechanism.

So there's no specific guidance mode or type of missile design that is somehow uniquely effective. The only real guideline is "use the best munitions you can, and fire a LOT of them because most of them are going to miss."

Please try to understand this. Trying to think of ways to somehow 'hack' the Abyssals' protection with modern weaponry is not a good idea and serves only to clutter up the conversation. Because there is no mechanism, there is no reliable way to do it.
 
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Thor... shipgirl magic. Stop proposing things when you've established you've got no understanding of the story's magic rules and a tenuous at best understanding of the tech involved. At the very least, cite some sources in your posts.

I know, but I was quoting the guy above me who mentioned that what if they teamed up Kanmusu with regular forces, and allow them to spot Abyssals and allow the regular boys to engage from beyond visual range.
 
Even aside from the part where the author of the story keeps asking you to stop talking, it almost certainly wouldn't work, because there is no way for the shipgirl to provide rapid, continuously updated targeting information to a steel warship. And even if there were, Abyssal magic works just as well on the missiles as it does on the ships, so most of them would still miss or do negligible damage.

I'm sure modern ships CAN inflict damage on Abyssals, or the war would have ended almost immediately. But it simply cannot be done cheaply or easily; you will pay in blood for every victory you score against them that way. Trying to bypass that fact is just a waste of time.
 
Well, there's stories where the breaks from reality are inherently consistent and exploitable through cleverness.

The trouble is, this isn't one of them. The fundamental break from reality isn't that demonic ships from the past are jamming our radar, or that they don't show up properly on computerized sonar data analysis, or that GPS doesn't home in on their ships' location, or anything specific like that.

If it was, then there would be a lot to be said for Thor's basic approach of trying to analyze everything and figure out the One True Weakness that the enemy's highly specific protections don't help against.

But as noted, the key break from reality isn't a specific thing that you can bypass in a specific way. The key break from reality is that naval warfare doesn't actually run on logic anymore.

The ships are girls. The girls are ships. Ships that aren't, in some sense, girls simply do not and cannot compete anymore.

[shrugs]

That's just the basic fact of the story, and you can't exploit it, except by getting some ships who are girls and having them start whaling on the enemy ships. Which are, presumably, also in some sense girls.

So get used to your ships eating pie, and saying "poi," and falling in love with their admirals, and wandering the base at five in the morning dispensing coffee. It's just the way naval warfare works now.
 
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Plus you drop a metric ton of chaff, even an AEGIS system will have trouble figuring out what is going on beyond that chaff wall.
Actually, some years back after some tests they did, NAVSEA quietly sent out a circular that chaff was no longer considered a viable countermeasure. Because the AN/SPY-1 radar on an Aegis cruiser (note the lack of caps) will burn its way through that chaff.

As others have said and like I just told you last night:

Lurk the fuck more and stop trying to backseat author.
 
Hello, long time lurker delurking because of a characterization idea. However I realize that she is already in the story so this may be irrelevant, but I feel the need to post this before she gets fully fleshed out.

Similar to Jersey, Wisconsin's personality divides roughly into two stages, WWII and 1980s reactivation.

Young Wisconsin is very attentive and eager. As the third Iowa-class (yes THIRD. She was launched third and commissioned third, don't just assume off her hull number, she'll fight you on that) she's already late for the biggest war her county has known. So she wants to do everything she can to help, it's her motto after all "Forward." Despite the barn door tests that hurt her rudders, she's still in the pacific and joining her older sisters before Missouri even leaves California.

Her first days on the frontline goes great, full effect from her fleet's planes and she gets to learn from Iowa herself while Jersey commands the fleet. Just as she's learning the taste of war however, disaster strikes. Nine days after Wisconsin arrives, typhoon Cobra hits. Wisconsin handles it fine, but she learns quickly htta the weather is not her friend. Not only are three destroyers sunk, but Iowa is damaged and has to leave. Now she's stuck with a Jersey who's pining after her admiral, and she learns that she's not as important. But Wisky's a working battleship so she does her job, shoot the ground and feed the kids, even if the keep mistaking her for being last.

Even though she's late to the signing of the surrender, she's not the last even then. NJ is still returning from yard time.

Her first chance at decommissioning doesn't last long, she's quickly reawakened and sent to shoot more ground and feed more kids. But for once however, she's a flagship, since battleships are only really needed one at a time now and the admirals like her for some reason.

Her collision with Eaton teaches her that weather can cause worse things than sinking. She maintains an ever present nagging in that back of her mind from that point on. "Never get too close to a destroyer." Mentioning her new bow usually causes her to lock up though.
By the time the 1980s roll around she's mellowed out. Though she thought she was going to be scrapped the first time they came for her again. After all, it had been four years since she'd seen Iowa, or even heard of their other sisters. But she cares less about being the last now, claiming that they mean the last battleship from service, and though she doesn't like to think about Kentucky's bow, she justifies it by claiming it as a memory of a stillborn sister.

Though she's still wary around the new destroyers, her duties themselves haven't changed, shoot the ground and feed the kids. It's not until her active service is almost over that she finally gets to claim an achievement of her own, dubious that it is. She's the first to be surrendered to by UAV.

So projecting these events with what we've seen in story already lead me to think is that Wisconsin's personality would be very unenthusiastic. She'll do her job and do it properly, but she's not sure that she should be the one doing it. Because she knows who the Iowas are; The Face, The Fighter, The Famous, and The Forgotten. It hasn't changed for her; she's still the last battleship, the last choice, the last chance, the last one you could want. In her mind she's only on patrol because no one else can. Iowa's short a turret, Jersey's sunk and now on the west coast somehow, and Missouri is in the far more important Pearl; so important that Wisconsin had to give up boilers to ensure the good battleship is in the best of shape. So Wisconsin just plods along trying to find enjoyment in whatever escape she can, like a cartoon that depicts the ideal of a battleship. A ship that gets to fight other ships. A ship that was not forgotten even after she sunk. A ship that is the pride of her nation despite what she could never do. Not a leftover, half cannibalized ship who is only useful because she can remember some old radar patterns that showed up on her sister's radar.

That's my interpretation at least. Probably wrong, but I see her as the ship that did everything she was asked to but that no one remembers, which would be fine if she wasn't an Iowa class battleship.
 
Hello, long time lurker delurking because of a characterization idea. However I realize that she is already in the story so this may be irrelevant, but I feel the need to post this before she gets fully fleshed out.

Similar to Jersey, Wisconsin's personality divides roughly into two stages, WWII and 1980s reactivation.

Young Wisconsin is very attentive and eager. As the third Iowa-class (yes THIRD. She was launched third and commissioned third, don't just assume off her hull number, she'll fight you on that) she's already late for the biggest war her county has known. So she wants to do everything she can to help, it's her motto after all "Forward." Despite the barn door tests that hurt her rudders, she's still in the pacific and joining her older sisters before Missouri even leaves California.

Her first days on the frontline goes great, full effect from her fleet's planes and she gets to learn from Iowa herself while Jersey commands the fleet. Just as she's learning the taste of war however, disaster strikes. Nine days after Wisconsin arrives, typhoon Cobra hits. Wisconsin handles it fine, but she learns quickly htta the weather is not her friend. Not only are three destroyers sunk, but Iowa is damaged and has to leave. Now she's stuck with a Jersey who's pining after her admiral, and she learns that she's not as important. But Wisky's a working battleship so she does her job, shoot the ground and feed the kids, even if the keep mistaking her for being last.

Even though she's late to the signing of the surrender, she's not the last even then. NJ is still returning from yard time.

Her first chance at decommissioning doesn't last long, she's quickly reawakened and sent to shoot more ground and feed more kids. But for once however, she's a flagship, since battleships are only really needed one at a time now and the admirals like her for some reason.

Her collision with Eaton teaches her that weather can cause worse things than sinking. She maintains an ever present nagging in that back of her mind from that point on. "Never get too close to a destroyer." Mentioning her new bow usually causes her to lock up though.
By the time the 1980s roll around she's mellowed out. Though she thought she was going to be scrapped the first time they came for her again. After all, it had been four years since she'd seen Iowa, or even heard of their other sisters. But she cares less about being the last now, claiming that they mean the last battleship from service, and though she doesn't like to think about Kentucky's bow, she justifies it by claiming it as a memory of a stillborn sister.

Though she's still wary around the new destroyers, her duties themselves haven't changed, shoot the ground and feed the kids. It's not until her active service is almost over that she finally gets to claim an achievement of her own, dubious that it is. She's the first to be surrendered to by UAV.

So projecting these events with what we've seen in story already lead me to think is that Wisconsin's personality would be very unenthusiastic. She'll do her job and do it properly, but she's not sure that she should be the one doing it. Because she knows who the Iowas are; The Face, The Fighter, The Famous, and The Forgotten. It hasn't changed for her; she's still the last battleship, the last choice, the last chance, the last one you could want. In her mind she's only on patrol because no one else can. Iowa's short a turret, Jersey's sunk and now on the west coast somehow, and Missouri is in the far more important Pearl; so important that Wisconsin had to give up boilers to ensure the good battleship is in the best of shape. So Wisconsin just plods along trying to find enjoyment in whatever escape she can, like a cartoon that depicts the ideal of a battleship. A ship that gets to fight other ships. A ship that was not forgotten even after she sunk. A ship that is the pride of her nation despite what she could never do. Not a leftover, half cannibalized ship who is only useful because she can remember some old radar patterns that showed up on her sister's radar.

That's my interpretation at least. Probably wrong, but I see her as the ship that did everything she was asked to but that no one remembers, which would be fine if she wasn't an Iowa class battleship.
Actually at least on the east coast it seems Iowa's the forgotten sibling.
 
Blame Kancolle. Once they introduced her as a real character I can't figure a good way to make her mesh with everyone else.
I mean before that
here's how everyone remembers the four siblings

Missouri: second to last in service and the one on which the war finally ended
Wisky: Last of the battleships to sail the seas, created such an impressive fireworks display that the mere sight of her drones caused Iraqi units to shit life sized versions of Saddam's palace and give up lest Gods right hand squash them like bugs.
Jersey: longest active service out of the 4, and who can forget her perfect game in Korea.
Iowa: well she's the first of the class... and then there was that issue with turret 2, and almost running 3 of her escorts over in calm seas..... see what I mean.
 
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I mean before that
here's how everyone remembers the four siblings

Missouri: second to last in service and the one on which the war finally ended
Wisky: Last of the battleships to sail the seas, created such an impressive fireworks display that the mere sight of her drones caused Iraqi units to shit life sized versions of Saddam's palace and give up lest Gods right hand squash them like bugs.
Jersey: longest active service out of the 4, and who can forget her perfect game in Korea.
Iowa: well she's the first of the class... and then there was that issue with turret 2, and almost running 3 of her escorts over in calm seas..... see what I mean.
That voyage with Willie Dee really did a number on her.
 
Blame Kancolle. Once they introduced her as a real character I can't figure a good way to make her mesh with everyone else.
Bah. Bah. BAH! You can just undertake the most hallowed of Fanfic Writer traditions and fuck the canon!

Alternatively, keep it, but DESS!Iowa only shows up when she gets spectacularly sloshed. Or starts building model ships. Or spends too much time with Kongou.
 
Blame Kancolle. Once they introduced her as a real character I can't figure a good way to make her mesh with everyone else.

You don't have to stick with her canon interpretation. If anything, I see her as the most mellow of the four, the Yamato to Jersey's Musashi.

Iowa was the first to be decommissioned, yet the last to become a museum. Unlike any of the others, she had an accident bad enough to take her out off service, and was barely saved from being scrapped only because Los Angeles took her. Even as a museum, she knows all too well that if the Iowa's were called back, she'd be stripped for parts to get the others running.

You can do what you did for Jersey and have her 'canon' look be her youthful phase for World War Two. Hell, say what you want about Halsey, at least Jersey had an admiral during the war. Iowa, the ship whose armament was tailored specifically for the admirals bridge, didn't.

Sad as it is, despite being the name ship of the class, Iowa herself often seems to be forgotten about. So far in this story we have Jersey as our main character, and hints of Mo and Wisky, but nothing on Iowa aside from being used for parts.

In the end, JMP, it's your story and you may write whatever you wish (and we love you for it), but I know that I at least will be very sad if Iowa is just left to wither.
 
Delurking to chime in with how much I'm enjoying this right now. :)

I'm looking forward to seeing the limits of the 'levelling effect' explored in combination with the more detailed identities given to the Abyssal ships in comparison to their canon incarnations, which in some cases hint at their representing specific vessel types, but don't outright say "X Abyssal = Y ship" in the way theJMPer's done here. So far, the dramatic tension around Jersery herself has revolved largely around her anxieties about the fights she wasn't able to be a part of, the sense that because she didn't turn up earlier and can't be everywhere, she's constantly fighting the feeling of letting people down. It'll be interesting to find out if the rules established for Abyssals permit a threat to exist that more closely matches Jersey on a toe-to-toe, one-on-one basis.
 
Wisky's gonna die.
Graf and U-511 Make an appearance.
Shinano is still feeling inadequate.
Wash and Kirishima is trying to woo Gale (which is failing)
Sara is now all bloodlust.

and Wisky's gonna fucking die.



Great Chapter JMP! :D
 
Actually, some years back after some tests they did, NAVSEA quietly sent out a circular that chaff was no longer considered a viable countermeasure. Because the AN/SPY-1 radar on an Aegis cruiser (note the lack of caps) will burn its way through that chaff.

As others have said and like I just told you last night:

Lurk the fuck more and stop trying to backseat author.
Thing is It works for WW2 gear so it should work for Abyssal.
 
Hello, long time lurker delurking because of a characterization idea. However I realize that she is already in the story so this may be irrelevant, but I feel the need to post this before she gets fully fleshed out.

Similar to Jersey, Wisconsin's personality divides roughly into two stages, WWII and 1980s reactivation.

Young Wisconsin is very attentive and eager. As the third Iowa-class (yes THIRD. She was launched third and commissioned third, don't just assume off her hull number, she'll fight you on that) she's already late for the biggest war her county has known. So she wants to do everything she can to help, it's her motto after all "Forward." Despite the barn door tests that hurt her rudders, she's still in the pacific and joining her older sisters before Missouri even leaves California.

Her first days on the frontline goes great, full effect from her fleet's planes and she gets to learn from Iowa herself while Jersey commands the fleet. Just as she's learning the taste of war however, disaster strikes. Nine days after Wisconsin arrives, typhoon Cobra hits. Wisconsin handles it fine, but she learns quickly htta the weather is not her friend. Not only are three destroyers sunk, but Iowa is damaged and has to leave. Now she's stuck with a Jersey who's pining after her admiral, and she learns that she's not as important. But Wisky's a working battleship so she does her job, shoot the ground and feed the kids, even if the keep mistaking her for being last.

Even though she's late to the signing of the surrender, she's not the last even then. NJ is still returning from yard time.

Her first chance at decommissioning doesn't last long, she's quickly reawakened and sent to shoot more ground and feed more kids. But for once however, she's a flagship, since battleships are only really needed one at a time now and the admirals like her for some reason.

Her collision with Eaton teaches her that weather can cause worse things than sinking. She maintains an ever present nagging in that back of her mind from that point on. "Never get too close to a destroyer." Mentioning her new bow usually causes her to lock up though.
By the time the 1980s roll around she's mellowed out. Though she thought she was going to be scrapped the first time they came for her again. After all, it had been four years since she'd seen Iowa, or even heard of their other sisters. But she cares less about being the last now, claiming that they mean the last battleship from service, and though she doesn't like to think about Kentucky's bow, she justifies it by claiming it as a memory of a stillborn sister.

Though she's still wary around the new destroyers, her duties themselves haven't changed, shoot the ground and feed the kids. It's not until her active service is almost over that she finally gets to claim an achievement of her own, dubious that it is. She's the first to be surrendered to by UAV.

So projecting these events with what we've seen in story already lead me to think is that Wisconsin's personality would be very unenthusiastic. She'll do her job and do it properly, but she's not sure that she should be the one doing it. Because she knows who the Iowas are; The Face, The Fighter, The Famous, and The Forgotten. It hasn't changed for her; she's still the last battleship, the last choice, the last chance, the last one you could want. In her mind she's only on patrol because no one else can. Iowa's short a turret, Jersey's sunk and now on the west coast somehow, and Missouri is in the far more important Pearl; so important that Wisconsin had to give up boilers to ensure the good battleship is in the best of shape. So Wisconsin just plods along trying to find enjoyment in whatever escape she can, like a cartoon that depicts the ideal of a battleship. A ship that gets to fight other ships. A ship that was not forgotten even after she sunk. A ship that is the pride of her nation despite what she could never do. Not a leftover, half cannibalized ship who is only useful because she can remember some old radar patterns that showed up on her sister's radar.

That's my interpretation at least. Probably wrong, but I see her as the ship that did everything she was asked to but that no one remembers, which would be fine if she wasn't an Iowa class battleship.

Nope. Mo was laid down before her. Shes the forth.
 
You don't have to stick with her canon interpretation. If anything, I see her as the most mellow of the four, the Yamato to Jersey's Musashi.

Iowa was the first to be decommissioned, yet the last to become a museum. Unlike any of the others, she had an accident bad enough to take her out off service, and was barely saved from being scrapped only because Los Angeles took her. Even as a museum, she knows all too well that if the Iowa's were called back, she'd be stripped for parts to get the others running.

You can do what you did for Jersey and have her 'canon' look be her youthful phase for World War Two. Hell, say what you want about Halsey, at least Jersey had an admiral during the war. Iowa, the ship whose armament was tailored specifically for the admirals bridge, didn't.

Sad as it is, despite being the name ship of the class, Iowa herself often seems to be forgotten about. So far in this story we have Jersey as our main character, and hints of Mo and Wisky, but nothing on Iowa aside from being used for parts.

In the end, JMP, it's your story and you may write whatever you wish (and we love you for it), but I know that I at least will be very sad if Iowa is just left to wither.
You know, this sort of explains why you might have Iowa turn out like Kongou actually as she does in KanColle canon. She's sometimes forgotten about, never had an Admiral despite being built as a flagship, her issues with escorts, and her turret accident... is it really too much to imagine her acting out like she does? Partially to get noticed and partially to raise the spirits of others while the whole time inside she's kind of depressed?
 
Nope. Mo was laid down before her. Shes the forth.
I'm aware of that. However, while Missouri was laid down third, she was launched and commissioned Fourth. Which is enough in Wisconsin's young mind to make her think she's the third. By the 1980s she's given up trying to "correct" people.

Missouri

Keel Date: 01/06/1941
Launch Date: 01/29/1944
Commission Date: 06/11/1944

Wisconsin
Keel Date: 01/25/1941
Launch Date: 12/07/1943
Commission Date: 04/16/1944

Source: Naval Vehicle Registrar

PS: Which does sadly help feed Wisconsin's feeling of being forgotten. BB-63 was the last battleship launched by the US. Logically, that should mean that there is no BB-64.
 
On the other hand, Wiskey being the last American battleship, and the last battleship period depending on how you count Vanguard means she is the baby sister of the battleship world. All the other fast battleships dote on her incessantly, and she can get hugs, headpats, and cookies from any of the Standard-era battleships just by asking. It's a pretty sweet deal if you ask me.
 
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