Yes if we build some SMARVs in Colombia, Nod forces in Colombia will start getting beaten up by SMARVs. What I'm arguing against is the idea that it will somehow cut off the entire continent, of course it will mess up Nod operations in the specific zone it's built in.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
The Atlantic side doesn't have heavy Rapier patrols, the Rapiers have only been in production for a few months and their nearest base is 10,000km away in Copenhagen. They can refuel and get fresh food in Chile (after going around the long way through some of the roughest seas on the planet, because the Panama Canal doesn't exist, if they even have the range to make that voyage which I'm not sold on because they're littoral patrol craft not blue water cruisers), maybe even reload the missile tubes if it's a major port. But that's not the same thing as being based there for real, the Rapiers (and any warship) need regular support from heavy shipyards and the only one designed for them on the Atlantic is in Copenhagen. The south Atlantic is going to be prime Nod shipping territory, bordered all around by a bunch of Nod controlled Yellow Zones with no reasonable way for the GDI to interfere.
Again I think you are severly underestimating the challenges of geography here, South America is very big. Like, however big you think it is, multiply that by 5 and it's probably still not right. All that Yellow Zone coastline that's about as far away from a GDI base as you can get on the planet isn't going to be properly interdicted by a couple early runs of littoral patrol craft based out of an entirely different continent.
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- Location
- nz
There was a world war followed by an alien invasion while a green rock has eaten half the planet. We had to rebuild pretty much everything. New military developments is kinda way down the priority list, way behind just rebuilding our existing military or sciencing the doom rock or maybe study the aliens. So screw the Steel Talons, we've had more important stuff to do. They should be grateful if we give them any funding within a decade of The Third Tiberium War.
- Location
- Mobile, Alabama
This is important so I'm glad so many people are taking it. If we can rip out the deeper stuff? We can better weather the eventual mutation storm.
Can we just toss a dice a turn at this for like forever?
Odd question. @Ithillid
If this goes well? Would we be able to augment our ASAT system with lasers? I mean right now it's mostly if not all Ion cannons right?
I know we're already super behind on military research and deployment. But like can we grab this one? This would make the skies more target rich for the Noddie AA guys. Increasing survivability for our air frames. Also maybe there's an Orca variant hiding in that tree.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I feel like you're arguing semantics here. No, it won't let us retake all of the continent of South Africa. But it's a start towards doing exactly that. I think it's well worth doing, both on an efficiency standpoint and as a military endeavor. And it won't slow us from building a reclaimator hub near Chicago or elsewhere next turn.
@BoSPaladin Please try to format your plan similar to how other people are formatting theirs. As-is the vote tally will read every one of your options as separate votes. To have the vote tally cluster your options together as a single vote, start your plan vote with something like:
[] Plan Bospaladins first plan
The [] Plan is a signal to the vote tally that it's a Plan vote instead of a regular line vote. Follow that with indented vote lines like the following:
[] Plan Bospaladins first plan
-[] Vote option 1
-[] Vote option 2
And the subsidiary lines will be read as part of the greater plan vote under that plan vote's name.
Also, the vote tally does not read in multiple [ ][ ], and will read them as a single vote instead.
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This is the most unhelpful take I have seen about this in a sea of unhelpful takes. The GM has basically confirmed a lot of important advances are behind the steel talons. Also you know Nod is developing new military tech, that we will have to respond too. Unless you wabt us to fight the fourth tib war with obsolete equipment I would ask you to reconsider. This is the equivalent of burying your head in the sad for the sake of a meme.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
That is the exact same mindset that's why GDI is in a position where they would lose a war against NOD right now, and is in fact responsible for the biggest problem we're facing right now.
Sure, the situation was bad. But it wasn't so bad that we had to absolutely, no exceptions spend our entire budget each turn without any military consideration for the entire plan.
Even a single die per turn of consistent funding would have left the military in a much better state than it is now.
"Grateful" nothing. Our GDI economy is built on a foundation of corpses from soldiers who fought and died defending Treasury investments with inadequate equipment.
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Gonna be honest here. I read over all the voting options and all I care about is having working ion cannons. Let the masses moan and whine about "Not having enough toys." or "Suffering from Tiberium poisoning." or "Literally starving in the streets." None of that matters. All we need is orbital fire support.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
We already have working ion cannons. Only ion cannons we lack are the ones to stop a 2nd alien invasion, which everyone, including Space Command, considers a low priority.
Man remember the threads attitudes towards marvs during the first plan? How they would probably not be worth anything? Man I got whiplash from how quickly everyone changed their tune from "Marvs probably won't be worth it", to "Marvs are amazing." Maybe we should learn from that and not assume that options we have are going to be terrible and give no return.
The party line during the first plan was that MARVs weren't worth it for their cost, not that they were totally useless period. Now we've got money and can afford to spend a bunch of dice at 20R each to get a moderate amount of abatement and income, back then we couldn't and the dedicated abatement or income options were more efficient. Now the situation is flipped and our main bottleneck on income/abatement is dice and military strength rather than cash, so MARVs make sense.
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- Location
- USA
So looking at it again we have struck into the Carribean and parts of Atlantic and have the pacific side in range of air bases with Valapriso and the new YZ hub. We also have docks in south africa that will interedict some movement from there and that is not a short crossing time for nod which given our increased orbital presence is going to be easier to pick up and route forces to interdict. But crucially the shortest route to other NOD locations(Northern SA) is brought under our control. So if not full isolation it is under harsh constraints and the YZ hub helps with that as the carribean and florida is noted as NOD pirate bases so a mil hub in Colombia is going to pin those further.
My confusion was as I thought Valapriso was located in Argentina not Chile where it actually is which changes where ships based out of it are going to patrol (so in this case pacific coast)
We had such limited funding and dice that we couldnt afford to run them, we also did not have the bonuses to mil dice that we do now nor did we have the reduction to progress needed for both steps. It is a very different situation we find in as 1) we actually have a useful bonus to mil dice, 2) tiberium has had the low lying mitigation done and 3) we have funding which means we can still keep mil development going at the same time. Over time we want to hit all the options we have open but there are some that are 1) more immediately relevant and 2) constraints on economic issues that require certain projects to be done before others and 3) some projects make other projects easier.
For example Philly Phase 2 will give us +1 to each dice roll, giving us a bit more progress each turn so that is important to grab sooner than later. Same with the new bureau option that gives us more LCI dice because at an expected increase of 35 income in most plans we can make use of 1 or 2 more dice in the LC category. Or how we need energy projects to support other projects (same with cap goods).
That sounds fair to me tbh, I was seduced by the novelty of ablative plating but Ground Forces confidence is "decent" right now so it probably doesn't need to get rushed out ASAP. I can swap out 2 ablat dice for 1 Wolverines and 1 Titan III development, maybe if we keep it up the Steel Talons will.... not love us, they're never ever going to love us, but maybe stop hating us with such a burning passion.
There have been several cost and progress reductions since the first plan.
They were (Progress 0/200: 25 resources per die) at first.
- Location
- nz
I wasn't saying no military spending. We had plenty of stuff we could have and should have rolled out way sooner. Though as bad as the under funding of the military was, it's the only reason we can afford to activate all our dice now, and why we are ahead in most other metrics to canon GDI, so it ultimately turned out to be the right call. As to the Steel Talons, entirely new systems that we have to develop then deploy while mainline units were and are under strength though is different, especially given how strapped for resources we have been up to now. Not focusing on some Wunderwaffen while everything was on fire, was and is the better choice. We will get round to the steel talons when we get round to them, which should probably be after we finish the factory roll outs for the army, navy and air force. Steel Talons is a tiny experimental unit who probably gate some really cool but entirely not urgent tech, they're what we do after we patch the regular forces not instead of doing that. So yeah, screw the steel talons, all the talk of doing a project just cause they hadn't got funding until now is waste, who cares what they're opinion is.
At the beginning of the plan, an RZ hub cost 200 points of progress, and an RZ fleet would have cost at least 230 (probably more), for a total cost of 460. Or a little over 9 dice, as we were rolling each military die with a -1 IRRC. So to get one fleet completed, we would expect to pay (10*25) 250 resources. Or 2 entire turns of income at the time.
An RZ fleet requires 315 points of progress. Or a tiny bit over 5 dice, as we are rolling with a +12. So to get one fleet out, we need so spend (6*20) 120 resources, or about 25% of a single turn's income.
They are a lot, lot better than they used to be.
An RZ fleet requires 315 points of progress. Or a tiny bit over 5 dice, as we are rolling with a +12. So to get one fleet out, we need so spend (6*20) 120 resources, or about 25% of a single turn's income.
They are a lot, lot better than they used to be.
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Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
"Really cool but not urgent tech" includes stuff like the next generation of vehicle armor, active defense systems, anti-personnel weapons for vehicles, faster firing and smaller scale railguns, and better sensors for detecting NOD stealth units.
So no, the tech the Steel Talons unlock is very much urgently needed. The majority of the upgrades to our tanks, vehicles in general, and even quite a bit of Zone Armor are locked behind Steel Talons stuff.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The really distinguishing trait of this plan is that it pushes light industrial efforts to net us capital goods through an aggressive expansion of the chemical industry.
Military focus is on gradual completion of unfinished MARV-related business while making a major rollout of anti-laser ablatives and throwing a die to Wolverine development, which we can finish next turn when there's no risk of the Energy situation somehow being unmanageable.
[] Better Living Through Chemistry
4+1 of 5 Free Dice
5 of 5 Infrastructure Dice (75 R)
-[] Tidal Power Plants (157/200) (2 dice, 20 R)
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (396/450) (1 die, 15 R)
-[] Fiber-Optic Expansion (105/240) (2 dice, 40 R)
5 of 5 Heavy Industry Dice (60 R)
-[] Blue Zone Power (345/550) (4 dice, 40 R)
-[] Union Class Construction Yard (137/180) (1 die, 20 R)
7 of 3 Light Industry Dice (80 R)
-[] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Zones (173/400) (3 dice, 30 R)
-[] Bulk Plastics Facilities (126/200) (2 dice, 20 R)
-[] Chemical Precursor Plants (36/300) (2 dice, 30 R)
3 of 3 Agriculture Dice (30 R)
-[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (106/350) (3 dice, 30 R)
5 of 5 Tiberium (55 R)
-[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 1) (41/80) (2 dice, 40 R)
-[] Tiberium Prospecting Expeditions (Phase 1) (3 dice, 15 R)
3 of 3 Orbital (55 R)
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 2) (92/180) (2 fusion dice, 40 R)
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Phase 3) (1/90) (1 dice, 15 R)
4 of 4 Services (50 R)
-[] Ethnic Restaurant Program (0/150) (2 dice, 20 R)
-[] Durable Goods Libraries and Central Repositories (0/200) (2 dice, 30 R)
6 of 5 Military (85 R)
-[] RZ-6 South Super MARV Fleet (136/210) (1 die, 20 R)
-[] Reclamator Hub Red Zone 7-North (Chicago area) (0/105) (1 die, 20 R)
-[] Ablative Plating Deployment, Phase 1 (0/200) (2 dice, 20 R)
-[] Wolverine Mk III Deployment (0/150) (1 die, 10 R)
-[] Governor Class Cruiser Development (0/40) (1 die, 15 R)
2 of 3 Bureaucracy
-[] Light and Chemical Industry Recruitment Drive (DC 50) (2 dice, -10 PS)
Budget
75 for Infrastructure
60 for Heavy Industry
80 for Light Industry
30 for Agriculture
60 for Tiberium
55 for Orbital
50 for Services
80 for Military
Total: 490 resources.
Military focus is on gradual completion of unfinished MARV-related business while making a major rollout of anti-laser ablatives and throwing a die to Wolverine development, which we can finish next turn when there's no risk of the Energy situation somehow being unmanageable.
[] Better Living Through Chemistry
4+1 of 5 Free Dice
5 of 5 Infrastructure Dice (75 R)
-[] Tidal Power Plants (157/200) (2 dice, 20 R)
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (396/450) (1 die, 15 R)
-[] Fiber-Optic Expansion (105/240) (2 dice, 40 R)
5 of 5 Heavy Industry Dice (60 R)
-[] Blue Zone Power (345/550) (4 dice, 40 R)
-[] Union Class Construction Yard (137/180) (1 die, 20 R)
7 of 3 Light Industry Dice (80 R)
-[] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Zones (173/400) (3 dice, 30 R)
-[] Bulk Plastics Facilities (126/200) (2 dice, 20 R)
-[] Chemical Precursor Plants (36/300) (2 dice, 30 R)
3 of 3 Agriculture Dice (30 R)
-[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (106/350) (3 dice, 30 R)
5 of 5 Tiberium (55 R)
-[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 1) (41/80) (2 dice, 40 R)
-[] Tiberium Prospecting Expeditions (Phase 1) (3 dice, 15 R)
3 of 3 Orbital (55 R)
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 2) (92/180) (2 fusion dice, 40 R)
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Phase 3) (1/90) (1 dice, 15 R)
4 of 4 Services (50 R)
-[] Ethnic Restaurant Program (0/150) (2 dice, 20 R)
-[] Durable Goods Libraries and Central Repositories (0/200) (2 dice, 30 R)
6 of 5 Military (85 R)
-[] RZ-6 South Super MARV Fleet (136/210) (1 die, 20 R)
-[] Reclamator Hub Red Zone 7-North (Chicago area) (0/105) (1 die, 20 R)
-[] Ablative Plating Deployment, Phase 1 (0/200) (2 dice, 20 R)
-[] Wolverine Mk III Deployment (0/150) (1 die, 10 R)
-[] Governor Class Cruiser Development (0/40) (1 die, 15 R)
2 of 3 Bureaucracy
-[] Light and Chemical Industry Recruitment Drive (DC 50) (2 dice, -10 PS)
Budget
75 for Infrastructure
60 for Heavy Industry
80 for Light Industry
30 for Agriculture
60 for Tiberium
55 for Orbital
50 for Services
80 for Military
Total: 490 resources.
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F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
These are a difficulty check not a progress bar so they ether will succeed or fail rather then being worked on over multiple turns.
Please not that you're actually spending 6 dice on Tiberium, not 5, that's where the last free dice wound up, also, you have LCI Recruitment and ICI listed as Military projects. otherwise, nice plan.
BoSPaladin
The Paladin
Thank you. Is this better?
[ ]Plan Bospaladins first plan.
-[ ]Infrastructure (5 infrastructure dice, 1 tib dice, 100 resources )
--[ ] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 1) (1 dice, 10 resources)
--[ ] Blue Zone Arcologies (Phase 1) (1 dice, 15 resources)
--[ ] Fiber-Optic Expansion (1 dice, 20 resources)
--[ ] Chicago Planned City (Phase 1) (1 infrastructure, 1 tib dice, 40 resources)
--[ ] Rail Link Reconstruction (Phase 2) ( 1 dice, 15 resources)
-[ ]Heavy industry (5 dice, 65 resources)
--[ ] Blue Zone Power Production Campaigns (Phase 2) (2 dice, 20 resources)
--[ ] Fusion Power Prototype (1 dice, 20 resources)
--[ ] Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension (Phase 3) (1 dice, 5 resources)
--[ ] Union Class Construction Yard (1 dice, 20 resources)
-[ ]Light and Chemical Industry (3 dice + 1 free dice, 50 resources)
--[ ] Bulk Plastics Facilities (1 dice, 10 resources)
--[ ] Personal Pharmaceuticals Plants (1 dice, 15 resources)
--[ ] Johannesburg Personal Robotics Factory (1 dice, 15 resources)
--[ ] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors (1 dice, 10 resources)
-[ ]Agriculture (3 dice + 2 free dice, 65 resources)
--[ ] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (1 dice, 10 resources)
--[ ] Yellow Zone Aquaponics Bays (phase 4) (1 dice, 10 resources)
--[ ] Yellow Zone Purification Facilities (1 dice, 10 resources)
--[ ] Vertical Farming projects (Phase 2) (1 dice, 15 resources)
--[ ] Entari Deployment (1 dice, 20 resources)
-[ ]Tiberium (5 dice) (4 spent here, 35 resouces) (plus 1 in chicago, resource cost already accounted for)
--[ ] Tiberium Prospecting Expeditions (Phase 1) (spent 3 dice, 15 resources)
--[ ] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 4) (spent 1 dice, 20 resources)
-[ ]Orbital (3 dice) (2 Fusion Dice 45 resources)
--[ ] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 2) (1 fusion dice, 15 resources)
--[ ] GDSS Shala (Phase 1) (1 fusion dice, 15 resources)
--[ ] Orbital Cleanup (Phase 3) (1 dice, 15 resources)
-[ ]Services (4 dice, 25 resources)
--[ ] Game Development Studios (3 dice, 15 resources)
--[ ] Fashion development houses (1 dice, 10 resources)
-[ ]Military (5 dice, 2 free dice, 95 resources)
--[ ]Reclamator Hub Yellow Zone 5a (1 dice, 20 resources)
--[ ] Reclamator Fleet RZ-6 South super MARVs (1 dice, 20 resources)
--[ ] Havoc Scout Mech Development (1 dice, 10 resources)
--[ ] Point Defense Refits (1 dice, 10 resources)
--[ ] Shell Plants (Phase 4) (1 dice, 10 resources)
--[ ] Railgun Munitions Development (1 dice, 10 resources)
--[ ] Wingman Drone Development (1 dice, 15 resources)
-[ ]Bureaucracy (3 dice)
--[ ] Interdepartmental Communication Initiative (3 dice)
Total spent,
Also, checked my math. Numbers should be correct.
double edit. double checked my math. I *think it adds up to 480, which leaves us 10 resources in reserve.
It shouldn't go over energy costs and should increase income slightly. meaning next turn it should be easier to activate more dice.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You need to remove the two extra [ ] here, but aside from that it looks correctly formatted to me.
BoSPaladin
The Paladin
Thank you for your help.
- Location
- nz
That IS not urgent considering the stuff we have now works. Just build the factories we have already qued up and do military refits instead of going through 3 stages before we can start building factories for a single new line of vehichles/ships/aircraft/whatever. Then do new developments after we have an actual fully functional armed forces. That is what's holding us back from being able to take NOD in a fight, nothing I've seen points to any Steel talons stuff being immediately game changing.