Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
[X] Plan Tiberium and Transportation
-[X] infra
--[X] Urban Metros (Phase 3) 39/150 2 dice 30R 75%
-[X] HI 4 dice
--[X] Saarland Heavy Industrial Plant 154/350 1 HI + 1 Tib 20R 21%
--[X] Heavy Rolling Stock Plants 0/250 3 dice 30R 18%
-[X] Tiberium 4 +1 free
--[X] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 5+6) 22/260 2 dice 50R 9%
--[X] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Phase 5+6) 68/360 3 dice 90R 29%
-[X] Mil
--[X] Shell Plants (Phase 1) 123/150 1 die 10R 96%
--[X] Remote Weapons System Development Predator 0/40 1 die 10R 83%
-[X] Bureaucracy 3 + 4 free dice
--[X] Focus Reallocation
---[X] Heavy Industry
---[X] Tiberium
---[X] Light and Chemical Industry
--[X] Recruitment Drives 6 dice
240/240
5/5 free dice
A plan focused on boosting income this and the next turn by working on both Saarland for the refining and rolling stock plants for logistics. Both are not needed till next turn so both get the minimal dice needed for them to have a chance of completing. I think orbital cleanup can wait till we can afford more dice there are only a limited amount of stages so I prefer permanent income from glacier mining.
This plan tries to get two glacier mines this turn or the next that will provide 40-60R each.
-[X] infra
--[X] Urban Metros (Phase 3) 39/150 2 dice 30R 75%
-[X] HI 4 dice
--[X] Saarland Heavy Industrial Plant 154/350 1 HI + 1 Tib 20R 21%
--[X] Heavy Rolling Stock Plants 0/250 3 dice 30R 18%
-[X] Tiberium 4 +1 free
--[X] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 5+6) 22/260 2 dice 50R 9%
--[X] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Phase 5+6) 68/360 3 dice 90R 29%
-[X] Mil
--[X] Shell Plants (Phase 1) 123/150 1 die 10R 96%
--[X] Remote Weapons System Development Predator 0/40 1 die 10R 83%
-[X] Bureaucracy 3 + 4 free dice
--[X] Focus Reallocation
---[X] Heavy Industry
---[X] Tiberium
---[X] Light and Chemical Industry
--[X] Recruitment Drives 6 dice
240/240
5/5 free dice
A plan focused on boosting income this and the next turn by working on both Saarland for the refining and rolling stock plants for logistics. Both are not needed till next turn so both get the minimal dice needed for them to have a chance of completing. I think orbital cleanup can wait till we can afford more dice there are only a limited amount of stages so I prefer permanent income from glacier mining.
This plan tries to get two glacier mines this turn or the next that will provide 40-60R each.
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ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
[X]Plan Getting Started with Orbital
[X] Plan Budget Crunch (Guaranteed Saarland)
[X] Plan Budget Crunch (Guaranteed Saarland)
- Location
- Victoria
[X] Plan Budget Crunch (Diversified)
- Location
- Milky Way
[X] Plan Budget Crunch (Diversified)
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Hmm. Here's a layout of options for consumer goods production and what they'll have in associated costs.
NOTES:
1) Some projects have important ancillary effects. For example, the North Boston Chip Fabricator's Stage Four expansion looks like a very inefficient project from the perspective of pure consumer goods maximization; this is because it is primarily a capital goods project with the consumer goods output being a secondary effect.
2) I seriously considered putting an estimated resource cost column in the table, but... @Ithillid helped me out, so thanks! I did that.
3) Note that we have two separate but related goals here. One is to massively increase overall consumer goods output, as per the plan promises. The other is to 'surge' consumer goods output in the near future so that the parties friendly to us don't get hit by a meteor when the election arises.
So we need BOTH quick cheap projects that can be completed in the next 6-7 quarters tops (such as Personal Vehicle Factories, Personal Appliance Factories, and the Services options)... and long-term projects that are ultimately very productive but also expensive and that cannot reasonably be completed until the last year of the Plan.
Option | Resources (points/die) | Progress Needed | Consumer Goods | Progress/Goods | Resource per Goods | Ancillary Effects |
Infrastructure | | | | | | |
BZ Arcologies | 15/die | 450 | +4 | 112.5 | 27 | +8 Hous, -2 Energy. Mainly for Housing. |
Fiber-Optic Expansion | 20/die | 240 | +4 | 60 | 19.2 | +2 Logistics |
Heavy Industry | ||||||
Personal Vehicle Factories | 10/die | 250 | +8 | 31.25 | 5 | -4 Energy |
North Boston Stage 4 | 15/die | 1132 | +8 | 141.5 | 33.96 | +16 CapGoods -4 Energy |
Tokyo Chip Fabricator (var.) | 15+/die | >>125 | +?? | ?? | ?? | Mostly ConGoods. Probably big. |
Tokyo (to lvl 2) | 15(?)/die | 375 (?) | +2 (?) | 187.5 (?) | 45 | Projected. |
Tokyo (to lvl 3) | 15(?)/die | 875 (?) | +10 (?) | 87.5 (?) | 21 | Projected. +4 Capital? -4 Energy? |
Tokyo (to lvl 4) | 15(?)/die | 1875 (?) | +26 (?) | 72.11 (?) | 17.3 | Projected. +12 Capital? -8 Energy? |
Light Industry | ||||||
Personal Electronic Appliance Factories | 10/die | 180 | +4 | 45 | 7.2 | -4 Energy |
YZ Light Industrial Sectors | 10/die | 400 | +8 | 50 | 8 | -2 Ene, -2 CapGoods |
BZ Light Industrial Sectors | 10/die | 350 | +8 | 43.75 | 7 | -2 Ene, -1 CapGoods |
Personal Pharma. Plants | 15/die | 180 | +2 | 90 | 21.6 | +1 Health |
Civil Clothing Factories | 10/die | 200 | +4 | 50 | 8 | -1 Energy Unlocks a project |
Edinburgh Motor Plant | 15/die | 125 | +2 | 62.5 | 15 | -1 Ene, +1 CapGoods |
Agriculture | ||||||
Expansive Aqua. Campaigns | 10/die | 600 | +2 | 300 | 48 | +8 Food. Mostly for food |
YZ Aquaponics (Stage 3) | 10/die | 78 | +1 | 78 | 12.48 | +1 Food, -2 Water |
Vertical Farming Projects | 15/die | 250 | +4 | 62.5 | 15 | +4 Food, -2 Energy |
Organic Textile Farms | 10/die | 100 | +2 | 50 | 8 | Locked by CCF above |
Agricultural Processing Plants (Stage 1) | 10/die | 200 | +4 | 50 | 8 | -2 Food, -1 Energy |
Ranching Domes | 20/die | 250 | +8 | 31.25 | 10 | -4 Food, -2 Energy |
SPACE | ||||||
GDSS Enterprise (Phase 3) | 30/die | 332 | +1 | 332 | 53.12 (w/fusion) | +1 CapGoods. Better phases later? |
Services | ||||||
Virtual Reality Arcades | 10/die | 250 | +8 | 31.25 | 4.03 | -1 CapGoods, -4 Energy |
Multi-Use Stadium Program | 10/die | 100 | +2 | 50 | 6.45 |
Also, I had a few thoughts and questions...
Ahh, and there's the ascended version of the project. Likely to wind up being close to resource-neutral even if we spend two dice on it, as seems fairly likely.Hm. Sounds nice... but we can't do it without more capital goods. No wonder the military wanted capital goods targets.
I'm a bit shaky on how Reclamator Hubs work, by the way. Does building a hub count as building a MARV fleet, or is there a separate project to build the MARV fleet associated with any given hub?
Everyone? I think there's a hidden benefit to this.
Insurance against blackouts. If we hit an energy deficit at some point and the power grid can't keep everything supplied for one reason or another, this is likely to reduce the political impact of the ensuing brownouts and blackouts. Remember over in USSR Plan Quest where Malenkov gets in trouble when a blackout killed hospital patients? This gives us the opposite of that. People will still be pissed, but less pissed.
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Useful chart, but shouldn't the second-to-last column be Progress/Goods?
Each Hub, once built, spawns a project to build the MARV fleet.
Also, we currently have a +12 on Orbital, so with Fusion dice, Orbital Cleanup is on average a bit above break-even if we do 2 dice/turn. Once we get Unions, we can do 3 dice/turn at 10R. Unless rolls are cursed, we shouldn't lose income on it. One phase should at least pay for the next.
- Location
- The Underdark
There is the hub, and then a separate action to build the MARV fleet, Which can range between 130 and 230 depending on which version of the MARV you pick to build.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yes. Yes it should. Nice catch.
By the way, do you have a breakdown of our pluses on all the different categories? If I had those in hand I might be OCD enough to try coming up with an estimated resource cost for the projects I just tabulated above.
- Location
- The Underdark
There is an up to date one on the current status threadmark.
Edit:
Bonuses
If not mentioned +12
Tiberium +32
Military +7
Services +27
And I am going to repost them here. These are current as of Q1 2054.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
So it seems to me that we still need to be cultivating +Capital Goods and +Energy options, both to meet consumer goods targets and for the military factories we promised to build... But in the short run we need to parlay our massive energy surplus from the end of the previous Plan into +Consumer Goods.
This is a bit of a problem, because two of our most attractive options (one short-term, one long-term) for +Consumer Goods are using the same Heavy Industry dice we need for our best +Energy and +Capital Goods options. Those options are Personal Vehicle Factories and probably the Tokyo Chip Fabricator, respectively, to be clear.
This is a bit of a problem, because two of our most attractive options (one short-term, one long-term) for +Consumer Goods are using the same Heavy Industry dice we need for our best +Energy and +Capital Goods options. Those options are Personal Vehicle Factories and probably the Tokyo Chip Fabricator, respectively, to be clear.
Yes. Yes it should. Nice catch.
By the way, do you have a breakdown of our pluses on all the different categories? If I had those in hand I might be OCD enough to try coming up with an estimated resource cost for the projects I just tabulated above.
Which kind of dice do we build MARVs with? Tiberium, or something else?
- Location
- The Underdark
Military. The whole project uses military dice.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[X] Plan Budget Crunch (Diversified)
Thanks. Apologies for my cluelessness..
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You can use the numbers in the following post, which I'll get to updating later tonight. Just pick the first dice/resource cost that has over 50% completion chance. For example, Blue Zone Arcologie should on average cost 7 dice and 105 resources, so it's 1.75 dice per Consumer Good and 26.25 resources per Consoom. Edit: That said, progress/goods is a good enough estimate, and your chart is good and helpful.
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- Location
- The Underdark
I have two jobs as a QM. Write updates and facilitate engagement. This is the latter.
Edit: Also, Tokyo is pretty much an inverted form of Boston. So you get a split of cap and con goods, but this time favoring con.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Good to know, but for my purposes, that just confirms what I already thought- the Tokyo fabricator is a black box that costs an unknown but large amount of resources and churns out an unknown but large amount of consumer goods, along with, as you say, much-needed capital goods.
In the event, I decided to fall back on old physics classes and calculate an expectation value.
In particular, to go with "resource cost to roll a decimal number of dice equal to the expected number required for completion."
For instance, for a 250-point project where we have a +12 bonus, our average dice roll is 50.5 + 12 = 62.5. Thus, we would expect to roll 250/62.5 = 4 dice, and the resource cost is quadruple whatever the per-die activation cost is.
This had the virtue of letting me plug numbers straight from the existing table into a formula without having to look up a second table.
These numbers will inherently be estimates, but that would be the case anyway since it makes a huge difference to how costly a project is if it completes with two dice or four, and either are very much a possibility with our crazy luck and omakes in play.
Aaanyway. I'm looking over my table with an eye to resource-efficiency, because our budget will remain tight through much of the Plan and is especially tight now at exactly the time we need to complete some cheap Consumer Goods projects to keep public opinion of Treasury high prior to the upcoming election. This is stuff we want to have finished in the next 4-6 turns, ideally, so it had better be cheap.
Personal Vehicle Factories: Eats about 4 heavy industry dice and costs -4 Energy, but gives us +8 Consumer Goods at an expected 5 Resources per Goods point.
Virtual Reality Arcades: Burns Service dice on which we have a major bonus. Costs -4 Energy and painfully -1 Capital Goods, but gives us +8 Consumer Goods for even less, with a probable cost of about 4 Resources per Goods point, due to the good odds of finishing with only three dice.
...
Other attractive options with expected Resource/ConGoods figures in the range of about 6.5 to 8 include:
Multi-Use Stadium Program,
Agricultural Processing Plants if we can spare the food,
Civil Clothing Factories, costing minimal but nonzero Energy and unlocking a second similarly attractive project.
Personal Electronic Appliance Factories, another -4 Energy hog but good in its role.
BZ Light Industrial Sectors, which are slightly more Resource and far more Capital Goods efficient than...
YZ Light Industrial Sectors, which are a Plan promise and now we see why they were a sacrifice to promise because of the inefficiency.
If we completed most of these projects by the time of the election, we'd easily overrun the remaining Consumer Goods deficit, but at the cost of eating up most of the Energy surplus we ran up at the end of the previous Plan, in turn forcing us to build more power plants to run the military factories we promised to build.
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trooperist
Cinnamon Roll AI
So we have a few loops for the new plan.
We trade energy for capital goods and then trade capital goods for consumer goods.
One Blue Zone Power Production Campaign gives us enough energy (16) for two Heavy Industrial Sectors which then give us 8 Capital Goods. Factory refits need 16 Capital Goods.
And strangely enough, I'm tempted to build Stage 4 of North Boston. While it would use more dice it would probably be cheaper resource wise and use a ton less energy while giving us all the Capital Goods we need..
We trade energy for capital goods and then trade capital goods for consumer goods.
One Blue Zone Power Production Campaign gives us enough energy (16) for two Heavy Industrial Sectors which then give us 8 Capital Goods. Factory refits need 16 Capital Goods.
And strangely enough, I'm tempted to build Stage 4 of North Boston. While it would use more dice it would probably be cheaper resource wise and use a ton less energy while giving us all the Capital Goods we need..
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trooperist
Cinnamon Roll AI
Are the Personal Vehicle Factories and the Edinburgh Electric Motor Plant linked in any way? Just wondering since one builds electric cars and the other builds various electric motors.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
My personal recommendations list for eating up the Consumer Goods shortage before the election (scratching the backs of all those Developmentalist politicians who have been so good to us) is:
Stadiums (+2)
Civil Clothing Factories (+2 +4) (-1 Energy)
Organic Textile Farms (+2) (optional extra, very attractive if we've already done CCF)
Personal Vehicle Factories (+8) (-4 Energy)
Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors (+8) (-2 Energy) (-2 Capital Goods)
That lets us wipe out the deficit by adding +22 to +24 Consumer Goods, while consuming relatively minimal amounts of Resources, less than a third of the current Energy surplus, and -2 Capital Goods that we can readily compensate for in other areas during the same timeframe (about six turns) by various means. It also fulfills one of our main promises to the Yellow List, so it's a thing we would have done anyway.
Well, my recommendation is that we probably shouldn't wait on Edinburgh to start building car factories, unless we're planning to do Edinburgh right the hell now in the next 1-3 quarters.
Stadiums (+2)
Civil Clothing Factories (
Organic Textile Farms (+2) (optional extra, very attractive if we've already done CCF)
Personal Vehicle Factories (+8) (-4 Energy)
Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors (+8) (-2 Energy) (-2 Capital Goods)
That lets us wipe out the deficit by adding +22 to +24 Consumer Goods, while consuming relatively minimal amounts of Resources, less than a third of the current Energy surplus, and -2 Capital Goods that we can readily compensate for in other areas during the same timeframe (about six turns) by various means. It also fulfills one of our main promises to the Yellow List, so it's a thing we would have done anyway.
Because it's a "spend money to make money" option and we're so hard up for money that doing so is a tricky proposition.
It's possible that building the Edinburgh plant would make it easier to build more Personal Vehicle Factories faster. But since the Personal Vehicle Factories option is already quite cheap and attractive, much more so than most of the other ways that we could 'surge' Consumer Goods before the election...
Well, my recommendation is that we probably shouldn't wait on Edinburgh to start building car factories, unless we're planning to do Edinburgh right the hell now in the next 1-3 quarters.
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