- Location
- MSC
[jk] But Cap goods!!
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
Easy way to get a good guess is to go to the most recent threadmark that's not a result post (in this case, Q1 2061), then scroll down to the probability array at the end of the post. Alternately, find the probability array threadmark under Informational, I believe.
LCI's bonus was +24 in Q1 2061. Also, the probability array shows 17 dice needed for a 67% to complete, and 19 for 94%.
trooperist
Cinnamon Roll AI
I remember it as this. If it can be used to produce something or aid in the production of something it's a capital good. If it cannot, then it's a consumer good.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I'm a little concerned that we might actually wind up hurting ourselves if we try to delay a dozen 150-200 point factories because we're trying to complete all the bonus-conferring things (including a 1280-point megaproject) first...
Well, Light Industry, along with Agriculture, are the really good places to put stuff.
We have options, though I should note that we're probably going to have to mostly prioritize Capital Goods in Heavy Industry... And if we're doing literally a dozen or so Zone Armor plants, we're also going to need plenty of Energy again.
Although there's some overlap. Microchips from literally the same factory get counted as Capital or Consumer Goods depending on whether they go into an industrial automation control or a gaming computer.
- Location
- USA
Certainly a valid concern.
But honestly, if we don't build that last phase before the factories directly relevant to its function and discounts, then when will we ever build it? After the main things its bonus would be relevant for? Nah there's better things then.
It really feels like a now or never kinda situation.
Plus it would also help the Steel Talons out. Didn't we just get a bit saying the fibers were starting to hit their limit on the mastodon project so the last phase would probably help there as well.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
This doesn't make sense. Chicago and Boston are Capital Goods in addition to Consumer Goods.We have options, though I should note that we're probably going to have to mostly prioritize Capital Goods in Heavy Industry... And if we're doing literally a dozen or so Zone Armor plants, we're also going to need plenty of Energy again.
Even Reykjavik is Capitol Goods.
Why are you talking like these outcomes are mutually exclusive?
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
We don't have to do all the factories at once. We can roll out three or two while working on Reykjavik. Not as efficient dicewise, but efficiency isn't everything.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Reykjavik turns out enormous masses of Good Stuff; it's useful regardless of whether some of the Zone Armor factories already exist.
Meanwhile, we have Ground Forces and ZOCOM screaming at us for Zone Armor and the thread collectively threatening to go on strike and refuse to do any more glacier mines as we go into reallocation if we don't get more.
We don't have time to wait to perfect the design. We can refit a few factories later; we'd already have to anyway given that ZOCOM's own factories are years old.
My view is that we should quit angsting and just start building factories, at least the first wave. The perfect is the enemy of the good.
However, when we get to Wave 2 and subsequent, things are going to change. Those are the factories for equipping the bulk of GDI's infantry, not just the elite spearhead formations. At that point having cost reductions becomes even more vitally important.
So I propose to do a very few Zone factories first (1-3 of them, tops), then the cost improvement stuff. The time-consuming cost improvement stuff can proceed simultaneously and in parallel with the remaining Wave 1 Zone Armor factories (the ones now visible in Military).
They're not mutually exclusive, but it's likely that if we're working hard to get one, we won't get as many as the other as if we were prioritizing the other.
If we're heavily focusing on Capital Goods in several areas, we won't get much Consoom. Some, not none. But not lots.
If we're looking at 18ish factories to clear out all GFZA factory options....
Phase 1: Zone Defender Revision, GFZA Set 1. Work on Reykjavik in parallel with this, hopefully completes before phase 1 ends.
Phase 2: GFZA Set 2. Maybe do some other ZA related projects during this as well. Or really, Guardian Mk II needs to be done at this point if it hasn't yet.
Phase 3: GFZA Set 3.
And part way through Phase 1, we should be able to start safely doing border offensives and super glacier mines to bring in more RpT and energy to help offset the energy costs of the factories. If we estimate 2 years (8 turns) per phase, that ought to be 12 factories in four years, plus upgrades and Reykjavik done.
As an example of how one could break down the process.
Phase 1: Zone Defender Revision, GFZA Set 1. Work on Reykjavik in parallel with this, hopefully completes before phase 1 ends.
Phase 2: GFZA Set 2. Maybe do some other ZA related projects during this as well. Or really, Guardian Mk II needs to be done at this point if it hasn't yet.
Phase 3: GFZA Set 3.
And part way through Phase 1, we should be able to start safely doing border offensives and super glacier mines to bring in more RpT and energy to help offset the energy costs of the factories. If we estimate 2 years (8 turns) per phase, that ought to be 12 factories in four years, plus upgrades and Reykjavik done.
As an example of how one could break down the process.
- Location
- USA
Sounds like a plan.
What do we need in LCI for the current plan? Any chance of getting some progress on Reykjavik in?
What do we need in LCI for the current plan? Any chance of getting some progress on Reykjavik in?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
We really do need to do consumer and quality of life projects in Light Industry with some of our 'spare' Light Industry dice, because we need to get out in front of the problems that will otherwise be a lot more conspicuous if allowed to rage unchecked until the end of 2061. We're likely to get softer Plan targets if it looks like we're actually dealing with these issues instead of just designing another giant megafactory to produce weird high tech stuff.
- Location
- USA
K so, Chemical Fertilizer Plants (Phase 2), Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3), Civilian Drone Factories, Civilian Ultralight Factories, Civilian Support Expansion (Phase 2), and Artificial Wood Development.
Hmm... not sure we can get all that done this plan.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
See, that's the issue I've been getting at. Squeezing in Reykjavik around the MUST CONSOOM train's gathering momentum is hard.
i would do them in this order
Chemical Fertilizer Plants (Phase 2) as it is only a single die
Civilian Support Expansion (Phase 2) to get ahead of the consumer goods
Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) for the next generation of power plants.
And any remaining dice if there are any go to Reykjavik
Chemical Fertilizer Plants (Phase 2) as it is only a single die
Civilian Support Expansion (Phase 2) to get ahead of the consumer goods
Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) for the next generation of power plants.
And any remaining dice if there are any go to Reykjavik
- Location
- USA
That's only if we don't touch it until all of that stuff is finished.
I'm sure we can squeeze some dice in here or there.
And that's only when considering the remainder of this plan. If we don't have a explicit target we are trying to reach I'm comfortable putting half to consumer projects and half to Reykjavik.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Bergen dice are expensive, so it's probably best not to do a whole bunch at once unless we're very flush with cash. Which we're not if we don't have glacier mines to fall back on in early '62.
Also, the Drone Factories action is currently partially completed, giving us an incentive to pursue it.
Reykjavik is so big that it takes a LONG time to make significant progress on it as "that thing you do a little of on the side."
Long enough that the delay starts to be a problem for mass production of other things.
- Location
- USA
Absolutely.
But it getting completed relatively soon helps us quite a bit next plan. Even a few dice when we don't have a goal to hit in the category is dice we don't have to spend later. And the sooner it's cost reductions kick in next plan the better.
- Location
- Somewhere between the stars
I think as long as we do one or two Zone Armour factories, we should be fine to do at least a couple red zone offensive.
Both ZOCOM and Ground forces are at decent/high confidence respectively. They do generally believe they will win any fights with NOD/raiders as it stands. The problem is just ZOCOM lack of manpower.
With a couple of Zone armours they can generally leave the calmer red zone areas to Ground forces, since they aren't under as much risk to get poisoned and die anymore.
So i do generally think, we could do at least a couple of red zones with one or two factories, before we are getting close to strained operations again.
That being said, i'm fairly certain leaving vein mining one or two dice away from completion would be accepted by Parliament this time.
We have fufilles our income goal, and we are doing this because our typical means if securing income at start of new plan could be rather dangerous.
And, vein mining isn't that huge of a chunk, if it was like 1000+ resources from doing one phase i could get anger, but it's not.
So, i think we might get some grumbling, but given both ZOCOM situation and the unserstanding that the treaure do kinda need cash, we would get a pass for this, as long as we don't make this a giant habit.
Lastly, at the moment there is a giant Not!Scrin shaped sword hanging over Parliment. A huge part of why they ask for so much store food and stuff, is because of the sheer trauma the not!scrin inflicted on everyone.
People are, pretty understandably terrified of the Not!Scrin, and i think, in light of that, we will get several space ship plan goals, atop of fact if we do delayed vein mining, nobody is gonna raise a huge fuss, because everyone knows space ships aren't cheap, and this is the one time they don't want the treasure to fail a plan goal because they didn't have enough income.
In light of the Not!Scrin, i think Parliament would give us a pass as long as we don't overdo it, nor make it a habit. Nobody want to be the one guy who has to make thr treasure say "we can't afford space ships"
Not with how much of a cultural, tramautic impact the aliens caused last time they visited. Even initiate first, since Blue zones were their first target
Both ZOCOM and Ground forces are at decent/high confidence respectively. They do generally believe they will win any fights with NOD/raiders as it stands. The problem is just ZOCOM lack of manpower.
With a couple of Zone armours they can generally leave the calmer red zone areas to Ground forces, since they aren't under as much risk to get poisoned and die anymore.
So i do generally think, we could do at least a couple of red zones with one or two factories, before we are getting close to strained operations again.
That being said, i'm fairly certain leaving vein mining one or two dice away from completion would be accepted by Parliament this time.
We have fufilles our income goal, and we are doing this because our typical means if securing income at start of new plan could be rather dangerous.
And, vein mining isn't that huge of a chunk, if it was like 1000+ resources from doing one phase i could get anger, but it's not.
So, i think we might get some grumbling, but given both ZOCOM situation and the unserstanding that the treaure do kinda need cash, we would get a pass for this, as long as we don't make this a giant habit.
Lastly, at the moment there is a giant Not!Scrin shaped sword hanging over Parliment. A huge part of why they ask for so much store food and stuff, is because of the sheer trauma the not!scrin inflicted on everyone.
People are, pretty understandably terrified of the Not!Scrin, and i think, in light of that, we will get several space ship plan goals, atop of fact if we do delayed vein mining, nobody is gonna raise a huge fuss, because everyone knows space ships aren't cheap, and this is the one time they don't want the treasure to fail a plan goal because they didn't have enough income.
In light of the Not!Scrin, i think Parliament would give us a pass as long as we don't overdo it, nor make it a habit. Nobody want to be the one guy who has to make thr treasure say "we can't afford space ships"
Not with how much of a cultural, tramautic impact the aliens caused last time they visited. Even initiate first, since Blue zones were their first target
- Location
- USA
Also gives a very slight health and logistics boost which is nice. Main thing I think is at some point putting say 2 dice a turn on Reykjavik with the other three on more immediate projects so we can keep cons goods flowing while also making progress on Reykjavik,
if it saves us 1 capital good or 1 energy per factory, spread over a dozen factories? It's absolutely worth doing.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
Chem Fertilizers are +4 Consoom.
Civvie Drones are +4 Consoom.
Vertical Farming is +4 Consoom.
Ranching Domes are +8 Consoom.
Final Kudzu Plantations are +8 Consoom.
Chicago 4/5 is +8/+10 Consoom.
I don't think we need a Consoom train at all. Other than finishing those started projects, LCI can divert its railway towards Reykjavik fine. We have sufficient Consoom from other sources.
Civvie Drones are +4 Consoom.
Vertical Farming is +4 Consoom.
Ranching Domes are +8 Consoom.
Final Kudzu Plantations are +8 Consoom.
Chicago 4/5 is +8/+10 Consoom.
I don't think we need a Consoom train at all. Other than finishing those started projects, LCI can divert its railway towards Reykjavik fine. We have sufficient Consoom from other sources.
Once vertical farms and ranch domes are done I figure we'll probably have more projects for more meat. Hopefully our private industry will get somewhat unfucked and they can produce other consumer goods too
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
One thing I would like to note is that past phases of Reykjavik have had only modest impact on the Progress cost of the factories. We should be expecting something like -10 or -20 (at most) Progress to each factory from Reykjavik Phase 5. The practical effect of this is likely to be statistical in nature- a few more factories that complete with two dice instead of three. Remember that Military projects don't give rollover, so we only get so much out of things like this. Let's make sure to temper our expectations and remember that the perfect is the enemy of the good.
Uh, are you talking about vein mining (which comes in separate roughly 200-point phases that are good for about 25 RpT each), or Tendril Harvesters Phase 2 (which is a single giant 750-point project that's good for 100 RpT?
Up to a point. Certainly, savings in Capital Goods and Energy are very desirable.
But it would be a terrible idea to refuse to build any Zone Armor factories until Reykjavik Phase 5 is completed, is my point. Again, the perfect is the enemy of the good.
Depending on the expectations we're put under, I honestly don't know if that will be enough. Plus, many of those sources are already slated for 2061 completion; we'll be looking at other, entirely different options in 2062-63.
I'm confident we can complete Reykjavik Phase 5 at some point in the Fourth Four Year Plan, don't get me wrong... but I want to make sure we make good choices and don't wind up hurting ourselves by delaying the Zone Armor deployment for longer than is wise with Karachi coming up.