An Extra Primarch

Should the Quest switch to a Narrative Base?

  • Yes, it will streamline things.

    Votes: 345 40.6%
  • No, I prefer the current system.

    Votes: 127 14.9%
  • Yes, but not until the Crusade begins/Prologue ends.

    Votes: 378 44.5%

  • Total voters
    850
So since the vote is closed and we'll be trying to collect our nearby brothers as we expand, how do you think we'll be able to butterfly their relationships? Russ and Magnus in particular are going to be meeting each other pretty soon so I'm wondering of there's any way of getting them a better relationship than canon.
 
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Do since the vote is closed and we'll be trying to collect our nearby brothers as we expand, how do you think we'll be able to butterfly their relationships? Russ and Magnus in particular are going to be meeting each other pretty soon so I'm wondering of there's any way of getting them a better relationship than canon.
We can try to get them to talk. Or bond over battling with us against the Orks. I don't expect them to be buddy buddy with each other but at least get them to respect each other as leaders and generals.
 
Ooh, I've got an idea to have a MoI faction that is particularly horrific because they don't just kill enslaved humans.
 
A brotherly bonding session of battling the Beast sounds brilliant.
Well that just shows what we can do. Assuming we can easily get them to join us. Though honestly one thing I am wondering is what we can do to convince them to join. And I don't mean things like supernatural cajoling. I mean what else we can offer them to risk their lives and the future of their people to stop this threat other than "fight with me or else you'll eventually meet these Orks when it's too late to fight back."

I say offer them a chance to start their own legions with some of our resources a little bit early. It doesn't cost much from us at all and gives our people a chance for those who are not genetically compatible with our geneseed.

More importantly have this offer be up on the table for everyone at around the same time. I don't want them to see this as favoritism. Maybe even run this by the Emperor regarding this possibility. Like what's the worst that's gonna happen we cause a long standing grudge between Primarchs?

Ooh, I've got an idea to have a MoI faction that is particularly horrific because they don't just kill enslaved humans.
Yay some borg shit.
 
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We can try to get them to talk. Or bond over battling with us against the Orks. I don't expect them to be buddy buddy with each other but at least get them to respect each other as leaders and generals.

I am sorry for bringing it up so much, as I don't mean to, but it seems part of the council of Nicea came about in the first place because of legions like the Space Wolves and Death Guard complaining to the Emperor (and yes, the latter part of the ban was the Emperor getting angry when magnus did chaosy things like the wiki says, but I mean that there is less tension for it with us in play and touring humanity in general, while us talking with Magnus would make him more on his toes about chaos, which is good). I am trying to drop the topic, don't worry.

I have a few good guesses, though I don't want to affect things by guessing right on accident.
 
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Ooh interesting. I'll be more than happy to find out in due time.

I am sorry for bringing it up so much, as I don't mean to, but it seems part of the council of Nicea came about in the first place because of legions like the Space Wolves and Death Guard complaining to the Emperor (and yes, the latter part of the ban was the Emperor getting angry when magnus did chaosy things like the wiki says, but I mean that there is less tension for it with us in play and touring humanity in general, while us talking with Magnus would make him more on his toes about chaos, which is good). I am trying to drop the topic, don't worry.
It's okay, this topic is quite interesting to me. Ultimately as long as it doesn't go as far as having Daemons clean his legion's guns there should be less problems. Leman Russ' major problem was that he was unable to show his brothers his view points. Not Lion El'Johnson, not Mangus and certainly not Angron.

Now whether or not we'll succeed or even get a chance to try is another matter entirely.
 
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Well that just shows what we can do. Assuming we can easily get them to join us. Though honestly one thing I am wondering is what we can do to convince them to join. And I don't mean things like supernatural cajoling. I mean what else we can offer them to risk their lives and the future of their people to stop this threat other than "fight with me or else you'll eventually meet these Orks when it's too late to fight back."

I say offer them a chance to start their own legions with some of our resources a little bit early. It doesn't cost much from us at all and gives our people a chance for those who are not genetically compatible with our geneseed.

More importantly have this offer be up on the table for everyone at around the same time. I don't want them to see this as favoritism. Maybe even run this by the Emperor regarding this possibility. Like what's the worst that's gonna happen we cause a long standing grudge between Primarchs?


Yay some borg shit.
Regarding the Legions, that's a pretty good idea. However, I am concerned that Magnus will make the same deal with Tzeentch as he made in canon unless we actively participate in finding a cure for the flesh-change.

Actually hold on. We can turn anyone into a Beta-class psyker, correct? In canon, the Rubric of Ahriman only turned non-psykers into rubric marines. If Ahriman can come up with his rubric, we can turn all the Thousand Sons into Psykers, allowing them all to be safe from its side-effects.
 
Regarding the Legions, that's a pretty good idea. However, I am concerned that Magnus will make the same deal with Tzeentch as he made in canon unless we actively participate in finding a cure for the flesh-change.

Actually hold on. We can turn anyone into a Beta-class psyker, correct? In canon, the Rubric of Ahriman only turned non-psykers into rubric marines. If Ahriman can come up with his rubric, we can turn all the Thousand Sons into Psykers, allowing them all to be safe from its side-effects.
At a cost. The cost being if said individuals' bodies, minds and souls could handle it. The Rubric basically turned the psykers into powerful Sorcerors and the rest into Rubrics. If Magnus knows and desires we can make his entire legion into psykers if we wanted to. Though a lot of those decisions were made hastily and in desperation. I am concerned of the possibility of Magnus not wanting to tell us about any possible mutations. Then again that would mean he wouldn't wear or use our purity runes. Or not trust that our methods of creating mentally sound and healthy marines would be suitable for his needs.
 
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Regarding the Legions, that's a pretty good idea. However, I am concerned that Magnus will make the same deal with Tzeentch as he made in canon unless we actively participate in finding a cure for the flesh-change.

Actually hold on. We can turn anyone into a Beta-class psyker, correct? In canon, the Rubric of Ahriman only turned non-psykers into rubric marines. If Ahriman can come up with his rubric, we can turn all the Thousand Sons into Psykers, allowing them all to be safe from its side-effects.

Would he even know of the flesh change before the legion is even made? Beyond divination I mean? @Wind-Up Citrus is the flesh-change a thing yet?

The fact we are there and would be asking questions and collaborating, we might spot the problem early and think of a compromise. This is without meta-gaming even.

But we'd not even need to make them beta-level if they do not have the potential or want. Maybe they would that as this is Prospero-born people, but still, it does not need to be permanent or full-blast if it can't be handled. though I think things are not going to get to this point.

also, @ilbgar123 , is Serras strong enough as a psyker to not have a revulsion of blanks?

And holy F**k I am typing a lot.
 
Would he even know of the flesh change before the legion is even made? Beyond divination I mean? @Wind-Up Citrus is the flesh-change a thing yet?

The fact we are there and would be asking questions and collaborating, we might spot the problem early and think of a compromise. This is without meta-gaming even.

But we'd not even need to make them beta-level if they do not have the potential or want. Maybe they would that as this is Prospero-born people, but still, it does not need to be permanent or full-blast if it can't be handled. though I think things are not going to get to this point.

also, @ilbgar123 , is Serras strong enough as a psyker to not have a revulsion of blanks?

And holy F**k I am typing a lot.
The Flesh Change isn't a thing yet. He needs Marines First before said marines can have mutations. And yes we won't be so desperate as to force marines to become beta level psykers against their will.

No worries about typing a bit.
 
The Flesh Change isn't a thing yet. He needs Marines First before said marines can have mutations. And yes we won't be so desperate as to force marines to become beta level psykers against their will.

No worries about typing a bit.

Mostly, I am typing as I have questions, and think I know enough to calm some of the panic that could pop up here. It i 30k/40k, but there is logic we can use to not worry so much.


Plus the fact it was mentioned that there is less of a rejection rate in the quest if gene-seed was combined with that of others.

the answer might be that not every legion that is prone to such dramatic gene-seed flaws needs to be 100% astartes, or at least we can politely encourage screening to reduce the likely-hood of this happening, like we have in the bastion.

I mean, we only had 66 with varying degrees of rejection. That is staggeringly low.
 
....its going to be a Cyberman expy, isnt it?

The whole MoI MO about starving Chaos of emotional energy lends itself to the Cybermen doctrine of removing all emotions.

I forgot about the Cybermen.

I thought of the one type of ai from stellaris that just wants to pamper and take care of organics as opposed to the ones that want to exterminate them.
 
Dark Heresy
AN: Decided that a Codex Entry type deal was more fitting for Darkness, and I kind of just wanted to try it out. Someone wanted a Darkness!Serras Interlude. Well, here it is. Did this entirely for fun.

A three-way war unfolded, both on the surface of humanity's homeworld, and in the space above it. On one side, the loyal Primarchs and Legions of the Imperium fought to halt the advance of the forces of Chaos. On the second side, traitor Primarchs and heretics of both the mundane human and Astartes flavors, willing, tricked, coerced, or simply possessed, fought to slay the closest thing to a god of Order and Anathema to their own gods.

Blocky, gargantuan ships waged war on each other in space, ships being shattered ever few minutes even as Mechanicus adepts frantically worked to repair the vessels that survived long enough to limp to the Stellar Bellows and it's shipyards to the point where they could fight again. The twisted hulks, literally bleeding from wounds inflicted by their more utilitarian loyalist counterparts, were stronger than the loyalist's in may ways, but lacked proper cohesion, even under Horus' direction, which left many openings in their ranks, which were taken advantage of with the ferocity of the desperate.

This desperation was not born merely of the proximity of the Primordial Annihilator to the Emperor, who many believed to be a god despite his insistence on not being worshiped, though that was certainly a strong motivation, but because of the stranger-still shapes and beasts that attacked both sides. Twisted parodies of ships, living things, and sometimes both. While many lacked actual armament, reduced to simply ramming themselves into the enemy, Daemons shied away from the abominations.

No matter how many times they were destroyed, they simply pulled themselves back together again. Psychic might slowed this down, but even the weakest would recover from utter obliteration in a matter of days. The strongest would regenerate from what should be lethal damage even if a Primarch personally slew them, often in a matter of minutes. If not slain by a psyker, the shadows would recover in seconds what a Daemon would need a century to restore themselves from.

The shadows were led by a cabal of Malice's followers. Most of the lesser members commanded Malice's actual Daemons, who had less potent regeneration but were capable of actual thought, as even they were less than at ease around their 'allies' of the negative photon reading persuasion. The vast, vast majority of the shadows, from the Battleship-sized one dueling a Chaotic and Imperial Battleship at the same time and gaining ground through simple virtue of the damage failing to stick, to the lowly Shadow, the size of the common dog and roughly as dangerous, was Serras Salnus. To be more exact, half of her.

During the Istaavan V Drop Site Massacre, Serras arrived late, a rogue planet dropped in her fleet's path by a powerful ritual boosted by corrupted Hydaelyn Crystals and a million psyker souls coming very close to destroying a large portion of her Legion, and the abrupt stop she forced her fleet to undergo damaged more than a few of the engines and Gellar Devices on realspace entry so close to a gravity field. The necessary repairs caused them to miss the first 2 hours of the conflict, a situation which only grew worse when Horus personally assaulted Serras, teleporting onboard via a hole in her defenses.

He had captured the soul of one of her lieutenants, and the presence of said soul, presented as if it were a key, made her drop her guard for a split second. With the power granted by Chaos, that moment was enough. Horus very nearly slew Serras with his opening strike, but he'd come prepared for that failing. He had a Techmarine under the purely mundane leash of her mortal family held hostage invert the Gellar Fields, sending the 21st Primarch tumbling into the deepest depths of the Warp.

While the exact sequence of events did not become clear until much later, the psykers of Serras' Legion had detected Horus teleporting onboard, and swiftly came to the conclusion he was responsible for the apparent murder, or at very least attempted murder, of their Primarch. Their rage blinded them, and nearly half the fleet pursued him recklessly, while the other half attempted to interdict Horus' forces in orbit.

After the battle, the Legion nearly fell into despair, but was swiftly cheered when their Primarch stepped out of the Warp as if nothing happened, the personnel on her ship in tow. When she spoke, however, it was immediately clear something was terribly wrong. Her inflections were as if a servitor was attempting to mimic human emotion, her usual warmth was feeble, like a dying flame, and there was an almost robotic quality to her little quirks of movement, as if she were unsure why she was doing any of it, only that it was something she was supposed to do. Were it not for the familiarity of her soul, accusations of deception would surely have drowned out anything she might have claimed. As it was, more than a few of the captains, who had always been closest to her, were visibly suspicious of their returned Primarch, but held their tongue until she finished.

While in the deepest depths of the Warp, Serras and her personal ship had been swarmed by Daemons at first, as one would expect, but the common Daemons of Chaos were swiftly replaced by those of Malice, and a few true shadows, born of his followers who'd succumbed to Darkness. Malice had torn the vessel in half, but managed to not harm the crew, which made Serras pause in confusion as to why he would bother just long enough to let him talk, seeing as the longer she had to think before they were swarmed by an infinite number of Warp-bound creatures the better, she let him speak. Her attempts to create Light Crystals sputtered and died before they began, the Darkness suffusing the Warp snuffing out the very concept of light with extreme prejudice, so her options were few to begin with.

Malice had informed her of the true nature of the shadows, the Heartless, as beings that were essentially involuntarily incarnated Daemons of the souls of those they were made from. He also informed her that Darkness was his ally, and the only way she was going to get out of an abyss this deep was with his, and by extension it's, help. Surrounded, with thousands of Astartes and crew members about to experience a fate worse than death if she didn't accept Malice's help, she reluctantly asked what his price was.

Malice simply asked that she accept his help. Absolutely certain that this was a trick, but seeing no other option that she and her followers would survive, she agreed. Unfortunately, that was close enough to accepting Darkness that her defenses against it were compromised. Darkness was like an animal. It didn't do 'sometimes' the way a sentient being did. You used it, or you didn't, and if you used it, it used you.

With Malice personally present, her very being was flooded with Darkness sufficient to snuff out a sun. She succumbed almost instantly, splitting into a Heartless that appeared much the same as herself, save that it was a few shades darker, and an entity made up of her body and the remains of her soul, which due to having the core of it's being removed, lacked the ability to feel emotions very strongly, for the moment at least, and was thus reduced to running off of her memories like a machine. It would take years for a full recovery, if one was even possible. Malice, seeing no use for her shell, and having already gotten what he wanted, let her leave without any further complications.

There were more pressing matters however. With the revelation that 2 supposedly loyal Legions and their Primarchs were in fact Traitors, the conflict between Chaos and the forces of Order stood nearly on a knife's edge. Meanwhile the Heartless crafted from her corrupted soul core was going to carve a path from wherever it was spat out, likely the Eye of Terror, through the worlds between the horde it led and Terra to gather... recruits for a terrible task. There was a method by which Darkness could corrupt the universe wholesale, but it required a world of a certain narrative weight, simply due to how Darkness and the Warp worked. Terra was the best choice for that purpose.

The universe began as a mass of potential. The exact trigger would likely never be known, but reality exploded into being from that mass, dividing the real from the unreal. The point where this occurred was known as the Well of Eternity. Should a sufficient mass of Darkness be injected into it, the corruption would spread like wildfire across reality, dragging everything into the abyss. Swallowing Terra would allow Malice to forge a path from the narrative 'heart' of the galaxy to the 'heart' of reality. While Chaos would merely reduce the Imperium to a twisted shadow of itself doomed to a slow degradation, Malice would doom reality as a whole to the end point of that degradation immediately were he victorious. As such, Chaos was to be ignored until Malice's forces were dealt with. Humanity would survive if Chaos won. Malice would not offer that mercy.

Needless to say, this decision, combined with how off their returned Primarch was in general, caused a great deal of controversy amongst her Legion. A full quarter outright refused to follow her, choosing instead to harass Chaos and aid the worlds beleaguered by their raids. This mostly consisted of quelling the rebellions being triggered by Chaos so the other Legions could focus on protecting Terra. Serras simply let them leave, seeing no benefit in forcing them to follow her when it would likely consume more manpower than she'd lose simply acquiescing and increase the resentment they felt, and lacking the time to convince them.

Serras' remaining followers confronted her dark half repeatedly, slowing it and the horde of Heartless down to avoid them reaching the Throneworld in a timely fashion. She did not think informing the general public that she'd had a major component of her soul ripped out and made into a Daemon would be helpful for them to know. Quite the opposite in fact. Thus she had informed Imperial forces that a dark doppleganger of herself had been constructed by a sect of Chaos entirely out for itself, though she informed the Primarchs of what it's true nature was.

This led to the current situation. Serras' Heartless led a tidal wave of shadows against Chaos and Imperial alike, while the dregs of the Silver Sentinels, badly depleted from constant conflict with a foe that combined the worst aspects of the Rangdan, Orks, and Daemons, and given little chance to replenish their numbers while constantly campaigning, served more as advisers who taught the other Legions what they knew of combating the shadows, though how much they listened varied wildly for the first few battles.

Serras' shadow and remnant were both destroyed after the remnant burned itself out in a massive conflagration of Light to permanently destroy the shadow, who had already been felled three times by Chaotic and Imperial Primarchs but kept returning moments later as if nothing had happened or she'd spontaneously become a Perpetual. It was shortly after this that Chaotic forces finally punched through the Imperial Palace's defenses, taking advantage of the holes torn in them by the now-fading shadows.

Horus struck a mortal blow on the Emperor, distracted by a final spiteful gambit by Malice to snuff out Sol, and was obliterated in turn, Sanguinis personally carrying him to the Golden Throne at his request. Here he would remain for the next 10000 years.

The sect of the Silver Sentinels that had refused to follow the remnant returned at this point, crushing a significant portion of the Chaos fleet by surprise, and carrying with them a massive number of fanatically devoted Emperor worshippers, who were understandably outraged at the betrayal and wounding of their deity by his own son. Many of these Emperor worshippers would form the backbone of the Ecclesiarchy that arose shortly after the Emperor was interred on the Throne, and, despite being able to speak to his followers with a text-to-speech device that he'd installed shortly before the Webway Gate was destroyed by a possessed Eldar turning into a Daemongate thanks to some cooperation between Tzeentch and Slaanesh, he allowed this, almost entirely to have an alternative religion to counter the one devoted to Chaos, since pure logic and reason had failed. The extra power it provided him was also of benefit, as it would help stave off his soul being ground away by the strain of holding the Astronomicon alight and keeping Terra from being dragged into the Warp by the broken gate.

The Adeptus Sororitoras was founded shortly afterward, mostly composed of members of the same group of fanatics, and created from a core of Silver Sentinel Legion serfs who, while not Space Marines, had completed punishing physical training regimens necessary to qualify for the treatment, and trained entire regiments of fellows fanatics to a similar standard. This was meant to give the particularly fanatical devotees an organized outlet, though it was unofficially the Ecclesiarchy's militant arm within 2 decades, and officially so within a century. The Sororitoras went on many of the same missions as the green Space Marines, fielding much of the same equipment, for both the Inquisition, and the general extermination missions regularly carried out against, for instance, the Orks. For all the Emperor's protestations of divine status, faith had power, and immensely powerful belief strengthened many of the Sororitoras beyond their already inhuman training. The shards of his soul empowering them merely boosted this effect.

The Silver Sentinels, much like the Ultramarines, believed that their Primarch would one day return, even if they didn't have a physical body to cling to. Of course, the nature of shadows and remnants is such that the original is reconstituted in the same place where they were split, meaning the depths of the Warp in this case. Most who know this suspect that Serras was torn apart by the Warp's whims, her reconstruction impossible in such a chaotic dimension, or fell into the hands of one of the four 'normal' Chaos gods, too tainted by Darkness to be corrupted, but too potentially useful to discard or destroy. Most of the latter suspect Tzeentch to be holding her.

Sanguinis acts as Warmaster, as Horus had once advised, before the family of demigods was shattered, safeguarding the Imperium against the myriad threats that arose and quelling any rebellions, though the Silver Sentinels kept the latter from getting as out of hand as they might have during the Heresy itself, the Legions were not allowed to recruit back to their old numbers, to make a second Heresy more difficult, leaving them spread thin.

Roboute's Codex barely managed to win the majority of his brothers' approval, or at least apathy in Dorn's case. The Silver Sentinels mostly took the Codex as a strong suggestion, but acknowledged that the smaller groups of Astartes would cover more 'ground' and raised little fuss in most cases. They were always an individualistic Legion, so while they and the Ultramarines were both generalists, many chapters of Silver Sentinels would vary incredibly widely, especially the eldest.

Overall, while things were certainly not excellent, they could have been much worse. The forces of the Imperium remained in more or less a deadlock with those seeking to destroy it, neither gaining nor losing ground.

AN: Yeah, I was running off... no sleep when I wrote this, but I think it's not terrible. Magnus stayed loyal, but they grabbed Lion instead. Only half his Legion though. Sanguinis survived, Emps was just distracted by the whole 'Malice is trying to kill the sun!' thing and preventing him from doing that took enough attention that Horus could sucker punch him. Ollanius and co. bought him enough time to fend off Malice and the moment he could actually focus on him, he ended Horus.
 
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One question: Where did he get the idea for a TTS device? Serras isn't a Self Insert, so she wouldn't know of the TTS Emperor, nor would anyone else.
 
It's not exactly archeo tech you know?
Actually, it is Archeotech, as that literally refers to "old technology".

Secondly, about the meaning behind that comment, the plan for the Golden Throne was to be able to do matters of state and such while seated there. The life support technologies were added AFTER the GEOM was put on the throne, in order to sustain his body. There is no reason why he would include a Psychic Communication to Auditory Vibration Device of some sort. (A true Text-to-Speech device wouldn't really help, as he can't write/type any more than he can talk)

The only reasoning I can think of is Astra Myst's:
4th degree interdimensional warp fuckery
Though it should probably be Fifth Degree instead.
 
Actually, it is Archeotech, as that literally refers to "old technology".

Secondly, about the meaning behind that comment, the plan for the Golden Throne was to be able to do matters of state and such while seated there. The life support technologies were added AFTER the GEOM was put on the throne, in order to sustain his body. There is no reason why he would include a Psychic Communication to Auditory Vibration Device of some sort. (A true Text-to-Speech device wouldn't really help, as he can't write/type any more than he can talk)

The only reasoning I can think of is Astra Myst's:

Though it should probably be Fifth Degree instead.

He added it in just in case at Magnus' behest.
 
He added it in just in case at Magnus' behest.
AND THEN THAT FUCKING NERD MAGNUS TOLD ME TO PUT A TEXT-TO-SPEECH DEVICE ON THIS FUCKING GOLDEN ARMCHAIR, SAYING HE HAD A VISION OF A GRIMDARK FUTURE THAT WOULD SOMEHOW BE PREVENTED BY IT. I HONESTLY THOUGHT IT WAS A BIT ODD BUT NOW I REALIZE HE'S JUST A GIANT ASSHOLE TOMATO-MAN.

But why, my Lord? Clearly it was a good idea given your current state. Imagine how far the Imperium would have fallen without that device letting you command us? I'm sure Magnus was simply looking out for the Imperium's future.

THAT'S NOT IT YOU STUPID TALKING LEMON. IF MAGNUS FORESAW THIS POSSIBILITY AS BEING LIKELY ENOUGH THAT PREPARATIONS NEEDED TO BE TAKEN, THEN WHY IN THE NAME OF MY GLORIOUS GOLDEN ASS DID HE NOT TELL ME ABOUT IT SO THAT I COULD TAKE THE NECESSARY MEASURES TO STOP FUCKING GUILLIMAN FROM STARTING A MASSIVE CIVIL WAR IN THE FIRST PLACE? AT LEAST HE TOOK IT UPON HIMSELF TO KEEP UP THE WEBWAY'S EXPANSION WHILE I'M BUSY STALEMATING THOSE FOUR REALITY TUMORS. SPEAKING OF, HOW MANY WORLDS ARE LINKED UP AT THIS POINT? I KNOW THAT IT WAS STILL A CONVULUTED FUCKING MESS LAST TIME I CHECKED.

Oh. Well...
 
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