An Extra Primarch

Should the Quest switch to a Narrative Base?

  • Yes, it will streamline things.

    Votes: 345 40.6%
  • No, I prefer the current system.

    Votes: 127 14.9%
  • Yes, but not until the Crusade begins/Prologue ends.

    Votes: 378 44.5%

  • Total voters
    850
Hence the opposite would be only accepting something after careful consideration and reasoning.
No, the opposite would be only accepting Truths.

Again, belief and logic/reasoning/common sense aren't mutually exclusive.

Pretty sure Precision is already made, but it's available if not.
We have Accuracy for targeting and Control for self-control/psykers:
Accuracy crystals have effects similar to spacial-bending, moving the path of the projectile to be more likely to hit
Tenth-Tier Control Crystal/Rune. This Rune boosts the effectiveness of self-control, most noticeable among psykers
However, my intention behind Precision was scientific precision, both in manipulation and measurement.
 
No, the opposite would be only accepting Truths.

Again, belief and logic/reasoning/common sense aren't mutually exclusive.


We have Accuracy for targeting and Control for self-control/psykers:


However, my intention behind Precision was scientific precision, both in manipulation and measurement.

It is useful for getting down to the specifics, yes, which provides an accuracy boost as a side effect.
 
Assert that you are legally allowed to continue this summoning in the name of science, both you and the university have all the certifications necessary and you have taken all necessary precautions, including calling him in to observe.
He accepts this explanation but warns you that proper authorities should always be informed beforehand in case of emergency. He then proceeds to inspect the surrounding wards and arrange a couple extra Holy and Purity Runes for added security.
 
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Crystals
Based on the research list by @Wind-Up Citrus, the recent suggestions, and story posts on created crystals, I categorized our concept crystal ideas into four categories:
Tier 10 unless specified otherwise

- Accuracy [Tier 2]
- Administration
- Air [Tier 2]
- Balance
- Bravery
- Cleanse
- Combat
- Communication
- Compassion
- Concealment
- Control
- Creativity
- Darkness [Tier ?]
- Defense
- Detection
- Diplomacy
- Durability
- Earth [Tier 2]
- Education
- Electricity [Tier 2]
- Emotion
- Energy
- Evasion
- Fire [Tier 2]
- Forging
- Gravity [Tier 2]
- Guidance [Tier 2]
- Healing
- Heart
- Holy
- Humanity
- Ice [Tier 2]
- Improvement
- Integrity
- Invention
- Justice
- Learning
- Light
- Luck
- Magnetism [Tier 2]
- Medicine
- Memory
- Metal [Tier 2]
- Mind
- Mobility
- Morality
- Navigation
- Order
- Organization
- Patience
- Penetration [Tier 2]
- Perception
- Perseverance
- Power
- Preservation [Tier 2]
- Protection [Tier 2]
- Psyker
- Purity [Tier 6]
- Self [Rune of Self: Amazing]
- Sophont
- Sound [Tier 2]
- Space
- Speech
- Speed
- Stealth
- Structural Integrity
- Survival
- Temperance
- Time
- Warding
- Water [Tier 2]
- Willpower
- Wisdom
Brackets denote prerequisite crystals

- Acceleration [Speed, Motion]
- Accretion
- Adamantium
- Anti-Matter
- Ceramite
- Copper
- Crystal [-]
- Cut
- Dark Energy
- Destruction (synonym to Dakka)
- Deuterium
- Diamond
- Dull
- Duplication
- Efficiency
- Electromagnetic
- Electronics
- Engine
- Expansion
- Explosives
- Ferrocrete
- Flight
- Gas
- Generating
- Gold
- Gun
- Impact
- Infinity
- Information
- Iron
- Liquid
- Machine [Metal, Motion, Energy]
- Math
- Matter
- Motion [- or Movement]
- Mythril
- Nickel
- Planet
- Plasma
- Plasteel
- Promethium
- Range
- Resilience
- Rockcrete
- Rotation [Motion]
- Science
- Shape
- Ship
- Shrink/Miniaturize
- Skip [Time ]
- Solid
- Star [Fire, Light, Explosion]
- Stasis
- Steel
- Stop [Time ]
- Storage
- Strong Nuclear
- Swords
- Technology [Tool, Sophont]
- Teleport
- Tether
- Tin
-Titan
- Tolerance
- Transfer
- Transport
- Travel [Space, Time]
- Treasure
- Universe/Universal [Space, Time, Reality, Power, Mind, Soul, Dimension, Infinity, Connection, Bind, Balance]
- Vision
- Weak Nuclear
- Wealth
- Weapons
- Wood
- Wraithbone
Brackets denote prerequisite crystals

- Agility
- Aim
- Angel
- Astartes [decades for concept to gain warp presence]
- Avatar
- Banishment
- Beast
- Body
- Booster Crystals
- Caution [-]
- Cloning
- Common Sense
- Constitution
- Cooperation/Teamwork [Combination, Connection]
- Courage
- Creation
- Cure
- Cute
- Death
- Determination/Motivation/Work Ethic
- Development
- Dexterity
- Disbelief [-]
- Discipline
- Discovery
- Divinity [Faith]
- Eldar (nudge Mehtrya; bargaining tool?)
- Embrace/motherly warmth
- Endurance
- Evolution
- Expertise [-]
- Exploration
- Faith
- Fertility
- Fortune
- Health
- Heaven
- Hero
- Honor
- Hope
- Hunt [Aim]
- Idea/Thought
- Illusion
- Immortality
- Individuality [-]
- Innovation
- Insight [-]
- Intelligence
- Intrigue
- Intuition [-]
- Karma
- Language
- Law
- Life [Motion, Energy, Soul, Mind]
- Loyalty [-]
- Martial
- Mastery [-]
- Mercy
- Overcoming
- Perpetual [Immortality, Soul, Mind, Regeneration, Humanity]
- Piety
- Primarch [Humanity, Psyker, Power, Guidance, Astartes, ...]
- Reason/Rationality/Logic
- Rebirth/Resurrection/Respawn
- Rulership
- Seeking
- Self (only crystal)
- Sensing
- Sentience
- Skepticism
- Skill
- Soldier/Warrior
- Stamina
- Steal
- Stewardship
- Strength
- Symbiosis
- Tactics
- Trust [-]
- Valor
- Virtue
- Xenophilia
- Xenophobia
- Youth
Brackets denote prerequisite crystals

- Amplify/Boost/Enhance
- Annihilation/Erasure
- Binding
- Coherency
- Combination
- Concept
- Confinement
- Connection [-]
- Detracting
- Filter
- Growth
- Harmony
- Infinity
- Interaction
- Inversion
- Invincibility
- Interface (restrict tier 6-10 due to hackers)
- Key
- Keyblade [Heart, Containment, Sealing, Metal] (listed for convenience, locked due to player salt)
- Limiter
- Link
- Lock
- Magic
- Mending
- Moderation
- Modification
- Music
- Nihilism [Despair, Apathy, Hatred]
- Nothingness [opposing concept pair]
- Null/Nullify
- Obscurity
- Potential [-]
- Prediction
- Productivity
- Progress
- Recovery
- Reform [Change]
- Regeneration
- Rune [Shape, Form]
- Rune Arrangement
- Hydaelyn: holy numbers & symbols
- Runic Language: syntax, grammar, numerals, alphabet (symbols to weave any word/rune)
- Safety
- Sealing
- Secret
- Security
- Shadow [Concealment, Darkness]
- Soul [Heart]
- Summon
- Suppression
- Synergy
- Truth
- Unlock
- Void (safer variant of Nothing)
- Warp

WoG pertaining to the creation of crystals:
Crystals of one type will encourage their opposition.
level 10 crystals make crystals of opposing concepts easier to create. Does that also go for level 9 or lower?
That applies to lower level Crystals, yes.

Crystals of crystal knock off 10% of the requirement to make/advance Crystals, though the Chaos Gods only get 5% out of it.

10 is the maximum if you aren't aligned with a concept to the point that you probably don't count as a sapient. An Ork Weirdboy could make a Combat Crystal up to 12, assuming no outside interference, such as Hydaelyn noping it.

I know we can't stop Chaos from making crystals of their Spheres of Influence but can the crystal god at least stop them from achieving tier 10?
Their direct portfolios can't be stopped, but they'll have an incredibly difficult time making any that aren't those. As in, they can't make any past the first tier. However, a Tier 10 of their direct portfolio will be difficult, though not so difficult that it requires more than actual effort.
You may only build a single set of 5 Crystals per Turn for the next 6 Turns, resuming as much production as you want on Turn 22
Ordinarily you'd be allowed 5 per Turn, but you dumped a ton of them into one set of Research actions in one Turn because it was technically allowed so long as you eased off for a while, which built up a lot of 'Stress' towards the bar where Emps would make it an official limit instead of a stated preference. Also, just in case you forgot, you can make 5 Crystals per action/action set, which will use the same Check.
Are we allowed to advance old Crystals? You'd figure that would have the same prohibition against it that creating new ones has.
The prohibition is because new Crystals pull new concepts into Hydaelyn's domain, which empowers her. Emps is concerned about empowering a god he understands even less than Chaos, since she's based off of a set of physics that rewrites local physics to match, unlike the Warp which tends to have it's influence directly limited by the amount of Warp-yness present, and not really have many rules to begin with. The Heartless being part of said set of physics does not help.
 
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So a researcher could enhance his setup with accuracy runes? Okay.



Based on the research list by @Wind-Up Citrus and the recent suggestions, I tried to split the concept crystal ideas into two categories, physical/object and spiritual/being. Since I couldn't find a pre-existing list, I also looked up which crystals we already have and at which tier they are. Any suggestions or corrections? Should I add a third 'conceptual' category?

Tier 10 unless specified otherwise

- Accuracy [Tier 2]
- Administration
- Air [Tier 2]
- Balance
- Bravery
- Cleanse
- Combat
- Communication
- Compassion
- Concealment
- Control
- Creativity
- Darkness [Tier ?]
- Defense
- Detection
- Diplomacy
- Durability
- Earth [Tier 2]
- Education
- Electricity [Tier 2]
- Emotion
- Energy
- Evasion
- Fire [Tier 2]
- Forging
- Gravity [Tier 2]
- Guidance [Tier 2]
- Healing
- Heart
- Holy
- Humanity
- Ice [Tier 2]
- Improvement
- Integrity
- Invention
- Justice
- Learning
- Light
- Luck
- Magnetism [Tier 2]
- Medicine
- Memory
- Metal [Tier 2]
- Mind
- Mobility
- Morality
- Navigation
- Order
- Organization
- Patience
- Penetration [Tier 2]
- Perception
- Perseverance
- Power
- Preservation [Tier 2]
- Protection [Tier 2]
- Psyker
- Purity [Tier 6]
- Self [Rune of Self: Amazing]
- Sophont
- Sound [Tier 2]
- Space
- Speech
- Speed
- Stealth
- Structural Integrity
- Survival
- Temperance
- Time
- Warding
- Water [Tier 2]
- Willpower
- Wisdom
Brackets denote prerequisite crystals

- Acceleration [Speed, Motion]
- Accretion
- Adamantium
- Anti-Matter
- Ceramite
- Copper
- Crystal [-]
- Dark Energy
- Destruction
- Deuterium
- Diamond
- Dull
- Duplication
- Efficiency
- Electromagnetic
- Electronics
- Engine
- Expansion
- Explosives
- Ferrocrete
- Flight
- Gas
- Generating
- Gold
- Gun
- Information
- Iron
- Liquid
- Machine [Metal, Motion, Energy]
- Math
- Matter
- Motion
- Mythril
- Nickel
- Planet
- Plasma
- Plasteel
- Promethium
- Range
- Resilience
- Rockcrete
- Rotation [Motion]
- Science
- Shape
- Ship
- Shrink/Miniaturize
- Skip [Time ]
- Solid
- Star
- Stasis
- Steel
- Stop [Time ]
- Storage
- Strong Nuclear
- Swords
- Teleport
- Tether
- Tin
- Tolerance
- Transfer
- Transport
- Travel [Space, Time]
- Treasure
- Universe/Universal [Space, Time, Reality, Power, Mind, Soul, Dimension, Infinity, Connection, Bind, Balance]
- Vision
- Weak Nuclear
- Wealth
- Weapons
- Wood
- Wraithbone
Brackets denote prerequisite crystals

- Agility
- Aim
- Amplify
- Angel
- Avatar
- Banishment
- Beast
- Binding
- Body
- Boost
- Booster Crystals
- Cloning
- Coherency
- Common Sense
- Concept
- Confinement
- Connection/Bond
- Constitution
- Cooperation/Teamwork [Combination, Connection]
- Courage
- Creation
- Death
- Determination/Motivation/Work Ethic
- Detracting
- Development
- Dexterity
- Disbelief [Faith]
- Discipline
- Discovery
- Divinity [Faith]
- Eldar (nudge Mehtrya)
- Embrace/motherly warmth
- Endurance
- Enhancing
- Erasure/Annihilation
- Evolution
- Exploration
- Faith
- Fertility
- Filter
- Fortune
- Growth
- Harmony
- Health
- Heaven
- Hero
- Honor
- Hope
- Idea/Thought
- Illusion
- Individuality [-]
- Infinity
- Innovation
- Intelligence
- Interaction
- Interface (restrict tier 6-10 due to hackers)
- Intrigue
- Karma
- Key
- Language
- Law
- Life [Motion, Energy, Soul, Mind]
- Limiter
- Link
- Lock
- Loyalty
- Magic
- Martial
- Mending
- Mercy
- Moderation
- Modification
- Music
- Nihilism [Despair, Apathy, Hatred]
- Nothingness [opposing concept pair]
- Null/Nullify
- Obscurity
- Overcoming
- Perpetual [Immortality, Soul, Mind, Regeneration, Humanity]
- Piety
- Potential
- Prediction
- Primarch [Humanity, Psyker, Power, Guide, ...]
- Productivity
- Progress
- Reason/Rationality/Logic
- Rebirth/Resurrection/Respawn
- Recovery
- Regeneration
- Rulership
- Rune [Shape, Form]
- Rune Arrangement
- Hydaelyn: holy numbers & symbols
- Runic Language: syntax, grammar, numerals, alphabet (symbols to weave any word/rune)
- Safety
- Sealing
- Secret
- Security
- Seeking
- Self (only crystal)
- Sensing
- Sentience
- Skepticism
- Skill
- Soul
- Stamina
- Steal
- Stewardship
- Strength
- Summon
- Suppression
- Symbiosis
- Synergy
- Tactics
- Truth
- Unlock
- Valor
- Virtue
- Warp
- Xenophilia
- Xenophobia
- Youth
@ilbgar123 Assuming the list of completed crystals is 100% correct, could you copy it and add it to the information threadmarks?
 
10 is the maximum if you aren't aligned with a concept to the point that you probably don't count as a sapient. An Ork Weirdboy could make a Combat Crystal up to 12, assuming no outside interference, such as Hydaelyn noping it.
 
Okay, I have an idea for what to do to piss off Chaos:
Tzeentch- carve a Rune of Honesty into his Lords of Change
Nurgle- carve a Rune of Medicine into his Great Unclean Ones
Slaanesh- carve a Rune of Moderation into he/she/its Keepers of Secrets
Khorne- Mercy as previously mentioned.
 
Okay, I have an idea for what to do to piss off Chaos:
Tzeentch- carve a Rune of Honesty into his Lords of Change
Nurgle- carve a Rune of Medicine into his Great Unclean Ones
Slaanesh- carve a Rune of Moderation into he/she/its Keepers of Secrets
Khorne- Mercy as previously mentioned.

No, no, you need to add Static and Form to Lords of Change as well, Health and Cleanliness to Great Unclean Ones, Chastity and Abstinence to Keepers of Secrets, with Peace, Pacifism and Kindness going to Khorne's lot.
 
If a Lord of Change was asked 'What's in the air?!' when some kind of poison gas was released, they might answer 'The atmosphere contains water.' This is true, but is profoundly unhelpful. A Truth/Honesty Rune is not as helpful as you might expect.
 
If a Lord of Change was asked 'What's in the air?!' when some kind of poison gas was released, they might answer 'The atmosphere contains water.' This is true, but is profoundly unhelpful. A Truth/Honesty Rune is not as helpful as you might expect.
Can Runes be made out of any material or do they have to be warp-infused? Because it's not out of the question for a planet to have a regular written character be identical to one of our Runes.
 
If a Lord of Change was asked 'What's in the air?!' when some kind of poison gas was released, they might answer 'The atmosphere contains water.' This is true, but is profoundly unhelpful. A Truth/Honesty Rune is not as helpful as you might expect.

Then we can rules lawyer them right back by using an honesty rune instead of truth rune. Since honesty is all about not concealing the full truth, while truth is only what is factually correct.
 
Can Runes be made out of any material or do they have to be warp-infused? Because it's not out of the question for a planet to have a regular written character be identical to one of our Runes.
Each rune is a "pentagram with stylized script that translates the nature of the Rule Shards into written language". That's far too complex to become part of a regular language. Besides, runes are "generally immobile", so a flexible medium like paper is probably right out.


@ilbgar123, can we get Disbelief without first creating its opposite? Faith is problematic thrice over, since Emps will be annoyed, Hydaelyn will start to be interested in worship, and it opens the path to create God/Deity to the Chaos Five. Disbelief might placate Emps and weaken Waagh fields as they're based on collective belief.
Maybe via Negation -> Denial -> Disbelief? Is that a valid approach?
Any verdict on this, @ilbgar123?

Also, could you tell us the prerequisites for Range and Connection crystals?
 
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If you're worried about Serras maxing out all skill groups, you could e.g. suggest a rule that each skill group beyond Advanced reduces Exotic/Relic/Divine training in other skill groups by 5/10/15 points, so basically 1/2/3 negative tags.

I really like that idea. Was it already discussed? Because flat exp system feels unbalanced.

There is a Corax quote in canon where he says he won the first five simulations against Guilliman, and was not able to defeat him after that. Guilliman is not perfect in any field, but he can always adapt to what the enemy is doing.

Tbf, putting a covert ops guy in a simulation makes him great deal less dangerous. Since you know that he's there he doesn't get a "surprise round".

Since honesty is all about not concealing the full truth, while truth is only what is factually correct.

"What's in the air?"
Honest answer: "I don't know."

Because I honestly don't remember how much protons/neutrons/etc different elements that are in the air have.

_____

And runes.... maybe we should stop creating new ones for a while? We've all we already need and I'm not keen on finding a hostile empire who uses our runes.
 
Each rune is a "pentagram with stylized script that translates the nature of the Rule Shards into written language". That's far too complex to become part of a regular language. Besides, runes are "generally immobile", so a flexible medium like paper is probably right out.



Any verdict on this, @ilbgar123?

Also, could you tell us the prerequisites for Range and Connection crystals?

That exact description applies to Order Runes. Other Rune types vary a bit. Fire rather resembles a flower drawing to many, for instance.

Disbelief is available now, but Faith is not inherently bad. Faith just lends itself to fanaticism, which is inherently bad. Religion's basic problem stems from the human tendency not to question their beliefs. This is bad enough with science, which explicitly has questioning things as part of it's basic premise, while religion explicitly says to keep faith in things no matter what.

Connection should be available now. I think. I'm tempted to rule it as a derivative of Bond, as Bond represents a looser tie, but...
 
Religion's basic problem stems from the human tendency not to question their beliefs. This is bad enough with science, which explicitly has questioning things as part of it's basic premise, while religion explicitly says to keep faith in things no matter what.

That's not the same for w40k. Religion's basic problem there are Warp Tumors who are inherently incapable of being more than 1-dimensional beings that try to make everyone they can the same 1-dimensional beings.
 
Disbelief is available now, but Faith is not inherently bad. Faith just lends itself to fanaticism, which is inherently bad. Religion's basic problem stems from the human tendency not to question their beliefs. This is bad enough with science, which explicitly has questioning things as part of it's basic premise, while religion explicitly says to keep faith in things no matter what.

I'm sure people already know this, but it's also still worthwhile to note that just as faith is not inherently bad .... disbelief isn't inherently good.

For example, anti-vaxxers. Secondarily, people who don't believe the environment is in danger if we don't make some serious changes to our lifestyle.

Disbelief can get real horrifying.
 
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