Eh, mostly the manuals for the tabletop games and the Roleplaying series (Rogue Trader, Only War, Dark Heresy, Ect.). Never really got all that far into the Horus Heresy books. Still, you have yet to deny my point.
There is no exact date given for when Horus was made Warmaster but it's considered to have been very close to the end of the Grand crusade when all major resistance had thought to have been defeated after the Ullanor waaaugh had been crushed.
The Horus heresy its self lasted around nine years from Horus fall to when he died.
There is no exact date given for when Horus was made Warmaster but it's considered to have been very close to the end of the Grand crusade when all major resistance had thought to have been defeated after the Ullanor waaaugh had been crushed.
The Horus heresy its self lasted around nine years from Horus fall to when he died.
I'm no expert on the exact timeline, most of my estimates are just me piecing together corruption time+travel time and coming up with a fairly large number for it to be believable. I mean, these were hardened fanatics for the Emperor, I find it hard to believe that it was as simple as saying "Wanna kill your Daddy?" "YEAH!" It had to have taken time.
Plus, there is the simple fact that for all of his powers, the Emperor was one man. I remember there being between 400-600 Expeditionary fleets. We're not real likely to get him personally, especially since the descriptions for some worlds on the crusades were nightmares of Chaos and slave to alien masters.
And again. They missed a fuck-ton of worlds, only hitting the major ones really. Though I will concede that they might have gotten some of them and just lost them again in the heresy.
Combine this with how Dandriss's forests give us mass production possibilities, and the odds look a bit more even against the IoM, especially if we can transplant them to other planets.
You should look into the fate of the Auretian Technocracy, the Olamic Quietude or the Interex. The odds will never be even without the numbers/resources to match. If one Imperium fleet is beaten back, three more will be called up. Expansion, militant aggressive expansion into the broader galaxy will be needed.
And again. They missed a fuck-ton of worlds, only hitting the major ones really. Though I will concede that they might have gotten some of them and just lost them again in the heresy.
Where are you getting this idea from? I'm sure they did miss some worlds but a 'Fuck-tons'? The reason for the second crusade after the Horus Heresy was to scourge the galaxy of all the worlds that had fallen to chaos during the heresy.
Also note the word bearer legion actually fell to chaos before Horus did and had been plotting ever since the Emperor had one of the word bearer worlds purged for trying to spread the idea that the Emperor was a god.
Our chances of matching the Imperiums crusades sheer speed of expansion are slim. The reason for that is that we have neither Warp-capable ships nor Navigators in our system. Reinventing both of these crucial parts of FTL travel is going to be incredibly hard. Without both Warp engines and Navigators we'd need to luck into an alternate form of FTL travel or luck into finding access codes to the Webway in the Eldar Codex in Dias brain (and not get squished by them for messing with their most important strategic asset).
Our chances of matching the Imperiums crusades sheer speed of expansion are slim. The reason for that is that we have neither Warp-capable ships nor Navigators in our system. Reinventing both of these crucial parts of FTL travel is going to be incredibly hard. Without both Warp engines and Navigators we'd need to luck into an alternate form of FTL travel or luck into finding access codes to the Webway in the Eldar Codex in Dias brain (and not get squished by them for messing with their most important strategic asset).
Well, warp engines are a thing we could make even with out navigators although we'd be stuck with the slow speeds of the tau. I guess a sufficiently powerful divination focused psyker might be able to take the place of a navigator but I wouldn't want to risk it. On the plus side thanks to the codex Dia picked up the Greengrafters should know about the requirement for a Geller field to make warp travel actually safe.
Well, warp engines are a thing we could make even with out navigators although we'd be stuck with the slow speeds of the tau. I guess a sufficiently powerful divination focused psyker might be able to take the place of a navigator but I wouldn't want to risk it. On the plus side thanks to the codex Dia picked up the Greengrafters should know about the requirement for a Geller field to make warp travel actually safe.
Well, even the Tau reverse engineered their Warp Engines from an old Imperial ship wrecked in their home system. Everything indicates that there are no such engines in our system. Inventing them took humanity almost 10,000 years after they colonized their home system. We have some advantages, but recreating warp travel from first principles is likely going to be a millenia long process full of catastrophic failures.
Well, even the Tau reverse engineered their Warp Engines from an old Imperial ship wrecked in their home system. Everything indicates that there are no such engines in our system. Inventing them took humanity almost 10,000 years after they colonized their home system. We have some advantages, but recreating warp travel from first principles is likely going to be a millenia long process full of catastrophic failures.
We have some very very major advantages over base line humanity. For a start we are in theory at least vastly more technologically aware than base line humanity. Started at the very least with modern humanitys level of technology although the next 15-20 turns really determine how things plan out in that regard.
The more of the general science areas we complete like materials science and field effects the closer we are to pulling that off. That we will likely have an active psyker tradition using Eldar knowledge as the basis for it gives us a hell of a leg up as long as we continue to aggressively expand our technological output and continue to grow I think we can do it in a tiny fraction of the time it originally took humanity.
Becoming a peer faction at least in terms of tech is a possibility by word of AN, so our best hope is to play this like a 4x game.
We have some very very major advantages over base line humanity. For a start we are in theory at least vastly more technologically aware than base line humanity. Started at the very least with modern humanitys level of technology although the next 15-20 turns really determine how things plan out in that regard.
The more of the general science areas we complete like materials science and field effects the closer we are to pulling that off. That we will likely have an active psyker tradition using Eldar knowledge as the basis for it gives us a hell of a leg up as long as we continue to aggressively expand our technological output and continue to grow I think we can do it a tiny fraction of the time it originally took humanity.
I remain doubtful. We have some advantages, as i said, but we also have one major disadvantage, namely fuck of huge warp storms that are likely going to destroy whatever prototype we make as soon as we send it into the Warp.
You should look into the fate of the Auretian Technocracy, the Olamic Quietude or the Interex. The odds will never be even without the numbers/resources to match. If one Imperium fleet is beaten back, three more will be called up. Expansion, militant aggressive expansion into the broader galaxy will be needed.
...you know, I had no idea that two of those factions were in existence, and the Technocracy I had only heard about through mentions of the Horus Heresy.
I may not often agree with SSS, but here I have to agree with the general plan. Expand or die. Every one of those could have been a massive boon to humanity. Every one was destroyed and plowed under.
Burn the Imperium.
I don't care if we worship the Eldar Gods, our own Gods, or the Machine God. The Imperium must be burned to the ground, scattered to the winds, and it's very memories purged.
The Emperor was a very... I'd hesitate to say evil but certainly a very ruthless man. He was also possessed of very powerful foresight and even though it did fail him he was attempting to avert a very bleak future in which chaos wins. As it turns out his actions were more or less for naught any way but I think you still have to judge him in the context of what he set out to stop.
The Emperor was a very... I'd hesitate to say evil but certainly a very ruthless man. He was also possessed of very powerful foresight and even though it did fail him he was attempting to avert a very bleak future in which chaos wins. As it turns out his actions were more or less for naught any way but I think you still have to judge him in the context of what he set out to stop.
Think about it. The thing, the abomination he made is just as self-destructive as a chaos cult. More so, in some ways at least. To be honest, I'm not absolutely certain it isn't a Chaos Cult. Sure, it hates the rest of Chaos but-
...
Wait. Was Malal ever officially retconned out of the canon?
...you know, I had no idea that two of those factions were in existence, and the Technocracy I had only heard about through mentions of the Horus Heresy.
I may not often agree with SSS, but here I have to agree with the general plan. Expand or die. Every one of those could have been a massive boon to humanity. Every one was destroyed and plowed under.
Burn the Imperium.
I don't care if we worship the Eldar Gods, our own Gods, or the Machine God. The Imperium must be burned to the ground, scattered to the winds, and it's very memories purged.
Meh. Two of these civilisations were more fucked over by Chaos than the Imperium, and the third was even more xenophobic and convinced of their own superiority than the Imperium. And even decided to start a fight with them. They had a single planet and decided to challenge a galactic power because YOLO, apparently. Too stupid to live.
Beating the Imperium is really rather wishful thinking. For all that we may advance in the coming millenia the Imperium is lead by a physical god who is also humanity's greatest protection against Chaos.
The only real way to stop the Imperium is to spread so quickly that we eventually take control and bring order to Terra before Emps decides to finally make a move personally so that he'll try to just support us instead. In canon he seems to have been quite reluctant to actually assume force personally as he seems to have wanted for humanity to rule itself, a big part as to why the council he started on Terra was almost entirely made up of vanilla humans.
Think about it. The thing, the abomination he made is just as self-destructive as a chaos cult. More so, in some ways at least. To be honest, I'm not absolutely certain it isn't a Chaos Cult. Sure, it hates the rest of Chaos but-
...
Wait. Was Malal ever officially retconned out of the canon?
Meh. Two of these civilisations were more fucked over by Chaos than the Imperium, and the third was even more xenophobic and convinced of their own superiority than the Imperium. And even decided to start a fight with them.
Beating the Imperium is really rather wishful thinking. For all that we may advance in the coming millenia the Imperium is lead by a physical god who is also humanity's greatest protection against Chaos.
The only real way to stop the Imperium is to spread so quickly that we eventually take control and bring order to Terra before Emps decides to finally make a move personally so that he'll try to just support us instead. In canon he seems to have been quite reluctant to actually assume force personally as he seems to have wanted for humanity to rule itself, a big part as to why the council he started on Terra was almost entirely made up of vanilla humans.
Yea, if we are going to try and pull this off I think we need to keep a project at all time on something like teaching methods and to also start really getting to grips with the field sciences. Kind of can't wait to see what AN has in store for us though as it seems like our faction has been hit with a major disaster that could change plans for the next few turns at least.
This, in two of the examples it was the involvement of Chaos that caused their destruction.
Yea, if we are going to try and pull this off I think we need to keep a project at all time on something like teaching methods and to also start really getting to grips with the field sciences. Kind of can't wait to see what AN has in store for us though as it seems like our faction has been hit with a major disaster that could change plans for the next few turns at least.
Yes, but that's the problem. The Imperium under the Emperor was highly vulnerable to Chaos. And the Imperium after the Emperor is nearly impossible to distinguish from Chaos.
Yes, but that's the problem. The Imperium under the Emperor was highly vulnerable to Chaos. And the Imperium after the Emperor is nearly impossible to distinguish from Chaos.
The imperium and thus the worlds under the emperor were less vulnerable to chaos than a standard world not under the Emperor at the time which is the point really, the vast majority of places were better off as a result of coming into contact with the new imperium being formed.
An example is the no religion rule he was attempting to instill as all religions in 40k by their nature create warp entities and thus empower the chaos gods, he was also trying to unite humanity so that it would be strong enough to stand up to predation against xeno factions like the Orks.
Make no mistake Humanity with out the Emperor the space marines and the primarchs would have been crushed. At least one waaaugh happened during the great crusade that with out the emperor and his forces would have been quite capable of crushing humanity piece meal.
Yes, but that's the problem. The Imperium under the Emperor was highly vulnerable to Chaos. And the Imperium after the Emperor is nearly impossible to distinguish from Chaos.
Like by all accounts the Imperium is a shitty place for almost all of its inhabitants but you may as well claim that there's no difference between the the Dragonflies or the Authority and Chaos by that standard.
Like by all accounts the Imperium is a shitty place for almost all of its inhabitants but you may as well claim that there's no difference between the the Dragonflies or the Authority and Chaos by that standard.
That might not be the best argument. You know, considering the fact that the Dragonflies were leaning heavily toward Chaos. And that the Authority is really freaking me out right now with their Psyker research and rather shady practices.
Also, we have no real idea of what life under the Authority is like. That's why I really want to scout out further and find out more.
Like by all accounts the Imperium is a shitty place for almost all of its inhabitants but you may as well claim that there's no difference between the the Dragonflies or the Authority and Chaos by that standard.
Bah, even in the grim derpness of 40k there are still imperial worlds designated as paradise planets and other planets which are more or less on par with real world modern humanity and the same quality of life. Sure there are a bunch of crapsack worlds as well but it's not all horrible shittyness.
Just mostly.
More seriously though, there are iirc two primarchs unaccounted for in the lore. Wonder what the chances are that one of those two does in fact land on our planet?
[X] Subtly try to direct police pressure to get the 504s off their back (1.2x)
Considering the fact that you had lived through an apocalypse and were in fact at a musical performance in remembrance of that event, it was hard to call the past year 'apocalyptically bad', but damn if the hyperbole didn't come close. The talks with the Machine Heads had kind of gone nowhere, in that while they were majorly appreciative of what you had been doing for them, they also didn't exactly have much they were willing to trade, although from the sounds of things they might actually be willing to make a trade for the system they had developed in the near future. While a monotask factory, from the sounds of things it was not limited to just mechs, and any major industrial production could probably be made in the design with a bit of retooling. Vehicle production at least anyway.
Rolled 28 + 30 + 10 DC = 68
Nothing really
Rolled 44 + 30 + 10 DC = 84
Some success
Rolled 20 - 20 = 0
Just labourers
Immigrants: 97 labourers
That was, all in all, disappointing. No, what was 'near apocalyptic' was one of two major disasters that had happened. The first was probably the worst, something that had caught you in a blind spot and nearly spelled disaster. As it had turned out, upgrading your economy had had one major knock on effect: the sudden drop in the price of a lot of major goods had played havoc with what the value of your money actually meant. There had been something of a bitter argument over whether or not the fixes proposed fell under your purview or Parliament's - it had actually been a legitimate question, but neither one of you should have tried to dig in your heels on it - and the consequence was that you had only barely avoided going into an economic death spiral in the process of trying to fix the issue. The end result was that your earnings for the year had been gutted and you had slammed into a cash flow problem that had caused serious issue with your banks.
Extraordinary Expenses: -4500C
Government Income: 11471C Treasury: -1068C Personal Wealth: 355C Projected Net Income: 4493C
Rolled 3
Shit
Rolled 46 + 22 = 68
Avoided Recession, just a nasty downturn
Any other year, that would be the worst thing to happen, but of course the situation got worse. Your attempts to flip the known 504 agent had only resulted in the 504s knowing that you knew about him and withdrawing him from active service, losing you that entire lead right there. That was a pain, but no, of course that was just a side note to the shit sandwich.
The Authority lost another agent trying to infiltrate you. She had been posing as a labourer from the Dragonflies asking for directions in Shattersaw from one of your gendarmes when she suddenly seemed to clue into the fact that you already knew she was an agent. While she had not panicked nearly as badly as the first guy, instead she had started to allow herself to be lead back to the barracks when she had abruptly and for no apparently reason promptly exploded into a fountain of gore in front of the shocked gendarmes, agents, and uninvolved bystanders.
So of course, not only do you now have to deal with a fairly major economic disaster, but you have to deal with the Authority again. This was frankly becoming embarrassing for both of you, but you just wish that they would stop having their agents become public spectacle.
Rolled 23 + 36 + 30 IA = 89
Failure
Agent pulled out
Rolled 83
Rolled 4 + 44 + 20 Psychic Agents = 68
vs.
Rolled 97 + 36 + 30 Intelligence Agency + 5 Aware of Threat = 173
Stop exploding you cowards!
Another Authority agent just exploded
On the research side, you have managed to figure out how to take the garbage from your sap filtration and turn it into refined materials, which is incredibly useful, but with the improvements in your economy and with Shattersaw opening up the proportion of your population gathering sap is nowhere near as high as it used to be. Then again, you can probably shuffle some people around with the mechs doing more of the gathering than they have been since for the most part people have been more cost efficient.
The lovely performance you are attending also shows that the background examination of recovered cybernetics has finally yielded full results.
Soldier Student Projects x2 -> EM Field Gun Design + 20 = 273/575
Academic Student Projects x4 -> Improved Teaching Methods II +40 = 243/320
Artisan Student Projects x3 -> Compact Power Cells + 30 = 137/250
You have also been informed that unless someone tries to do something stupid again at the Admin Building, you should be into the core areas sometime within the year. The biggest find was the semi-intact remains of a few servers that had given you a few insights into how to best tie your own computers together in the future. Although the project was going to get more expensive as a few hundred of the prisoners had worked off their terms, meaning more danger pay
Other than that, things just kept spinning on as they always did, although several dozen of your older academics and artisans had retired this year, although fortunately they had enough underlings to smoothly take over their jobs with minimal loss of vital experience.
Rolled 53
Nothing
Rolled 63
Nothing
5
Universal Healing Machine
Rolled 33
Intact
All in all, this is going to be an obnoxious year, you just know it. Ah well, at the very least this performance is quite grand and moving. You're not sure if you've ever heard music this good. Such intricacy and subtlety, you...
Rolled 11 + 42 = 53
Failure
The good news is that you don't die, unlike several members of the audience who slump over. The bad news is that you continue to sit in your seat, a drooling idiot, totally enraptured with the performance, which seems to only pick up more and more intensity as it continues, the music growing ever more frenzied as it tries to add on more and more hypnotic layers to each other. You can start to feel that something is wrong, but you can't get yourself to turn away from it all. It's just so beautiful that it seems a crime to direct any scrap of attention away from its wonderfulness.
Rolled 29 + 42 = 71
Partial success
No, something is wrong. You have to get up, figure out what is going on. Those whose hearts don't simply give out are starting to claw at their clothing and skin like addicts going through withdrawal even as the music grows ever more incredible with each passing moment, the shakes of some clearly graduating into full blown seizures. You manage to turn your attention away from the performance, partially negating the effect, but you barely have control over your limbs.
Turning away, you can see the thing which is causing all of this: seated at the back of the reclaimed auditorium like a spider at the centre of its web, its features obscured in deep shadows, is one of the Eldar. Not one of the ones from before, one of the ones picking a fight with the Authority for fun.
Do you not like the performance? It is the finest she shall ever give, I can assure you that.
Once that would have been a hammer blow of confusing thoughts, but instead your mind is able to configure it into the Eldar language and from there into thoughts you can understand. This actually seems to come as a massive shock to the alien that your mind does not buckle under the strain but actually understands.
Rolled 5 + 42 = 47
Failure
Despite the shock, the psychic pressure does not relent enough for you to fight through the aura the alien is throwing up, and you remain struggling just to stand instead of sitting down and quietly dying as your brain burns itself out experiencing the now cacophonous performance.
Have you no gratitude? This is the greatest moment of your life, to reach peaks of emotional and sensational intensity your species should be incapable of experiencing, and then to bring a smile to your betters as you flare out, psychic fireworks in the dark. Have you any idea how selfish you are being right now? Have you no shame?
That might not be the best argument. You know, considering the fact that the Dragonflies were leaning heavily toward Chaos. And that the Authority is really freaking me out right now with their Psyker research and rather shady practices.
.
