SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
If concillatory wins I'd suggest forgoing the whole loan thing and just straight up paying their reparations for them. We can hopefully use that to leverage for tech or 'other' things later.
Age of Strife
Or just turn this into a trade directly. Though unless it's a fairly cheap/simple tech, the money from the reparation-loan might not be enough to pay for it on its own.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Hmm, I'd rather just straight up pay their reparations with no expectation of a return. Simply for the hope that it gives Dia the chance of gaining the Charitable trait. +3 diplomacy etc which can then be passed along to her kids.
- Location
- Cyberspace
I would think that an unfavorable trade willingly entered is also charitable...
Basic logic. Which options leaves the most people willing to buy in? Which ones, even if successful, leaves the most resentment? Which one leaves somebody else screwed?
These are all fracture points that the Authority is looking for to exploit. And with our luck I want to minimize the chances.
Of course ideally we make it a sale of their technology to us to pay reparations, but frankly we can afford it, particularly with the trade income boost, while they remain in place as a threat that keeps the 504s in line and makes us more independent of Dragonflies for the power balance.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Conciliatory -> 13 (0.7+d.10)x Rolled 8 -> 13(1.5)
Removal -> 9 (0.5+d.10)x Rolled 1 -> 9(0.6)
Conciliatory wins!
Update in a few hours.
Removal -> 9 (0.5+d.10)x Rolled 1 -> 9(0.6)
Conciliatory wins!
Update in a few hours.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
So our split personality decided to be nice?
17.5
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Conciliatory
Elsa
Watching the two bicker, you eventually just go, "You know what? Neither of you particularly like each other, I get that, but if you're not going to fight right now it seems like you're going to simply go at it again in short order unless the Machine Heads can do some sort of trading with the rest of the world. So, the question is, what will it cost to bury this damn hatchet?"
The two ambassadors look at each other, taken aback by your sudden decision to go off like that, and before they can start spluttering over your words you hold up a hand and say, "Let us not talk of honour or blood debts, because those things are amazingly the easiest things to go away since the only way to get rid of them is to let them go. No, I shall not begrudge you your grudges, but let's not go around antagonizing each other with the Authority running around fighting aliens in the woods. That way leads to us all losing. So, let's sit down, tally the damages, and then work out who needs to pay what to make this, if not square, then at least only off true enough that we can all live with it, okay?"
While your approach could have been better, it also could have been a lot worse. You eventually manage to force out of them a set of official apologies for past actions, and after a few weeks of arguing over the specifics of certain events, a deal is reached that both sides can agree is "fair", although there is more than a little bit of a problem. The damage the Machine Heads did to the 504s was considerable, even after subtracting off the damage the 504s did in return. The equivalent is worked out to come in at 8500C, which the Machine Heads certainly can't pay now and probably won't be able to repay for at least a generation unless considerable investment is put into their economy, which would be difficult if they were having to pay things off.
That... that is something you could be able to just pay for with only a bit of leaning on your banks until you could get your tax returns in, but it is going to put a major ding in your treasury.
You will...
[] Spot the Machine Heads the entire 8500C (0.5+d.10x)
[] Spot the Machine Heads what they can't pay on their own [6500C] (0.7+d.10x)
[] Offer a loan with reasonable terms [600C a year for 20 years repayment schedule] (0.7+d.10x)
[] Offer a loan with less reasonable terms [1000C a year for 20 years repayment schedule) (0.2+d.10x)
[] Try to convince the 504s to accept a payment schedule rather than a lump sum payment (0.6+d.10x)
[] Let them figure out payment on their own (0.3+d.10x)
Meanwhile word gets back to you on the people living out beyond Amethyst Gardens. While you have basically managed to break the back of organized raiding the area is still largely operating under rule by those with the most guns, or in some cases swords, available to them. While to an extent this is creating pressure to move away, there are those who are stubbornly clinging to their homes and there also those who would rather be the kings of shit mountain than peasants in paradise (such as it is, anyway).
Still, your diplomats make a pretty good pitch and close to four hundred people decide to immigrate, among them nearly three dozen skilled artisans, a welcome boon. There is however, a problem to anything more than drips and drabs of people trickling in via immigration. The citizens of Librarian's Nook and Six Pillars simply feel that you are too far out to be able to get to them in a timely, efficient manner should something go wrong. You have vehicles and can get from Shattersaw to Amethyst Gardens in a few hours, but you don't have enough to move a meaningful number in a hurry. You will need to solve this logistics issue before you can expand further.
352 labourers gained
34 artisans gained
Fortunately Sammael and some of your businessmen have been discussing something along these lines. It will take a bit to properly engineer a solution, but with the compact reactors you should be able to build something along the lines of independently powered train cars to shuttle goods and people about between your settlements.
New Research Project Unlocked!
Land Train 0/200 - Basically just an oversized truck with a compact fusion reactor to haul trailers, this should be a cheap and efficient way to get people and cargo moving in bulk quantities through the rail network without having to bother with fixing the damaged energy systems for the original maglevs. Vehicle
While this sort of limitation is irritating, getting this sort of reliable logistics set up should allow you to start looking into extreme long haul missions that have been impractical in the past even with sap purification. While theoretically you could go anywhere in the rail network with long haul vehicles, for all practical purposes the limit of your ability to move is likely to get to the next hub cities, which likely have had their rail networks bombed into oblivion and thus you could not take the vehicles out of the lines without disassembling them and hand hauling them across the damage before reassembling them. Still, it is certainly a way to majorly open up the world.
END TURN
Elsa
Watching the two bicker, you eventually just go, "You know what? Neither of you particularly like each other, I get that, but if you're not going to fight right now it seems like you're going to simply go at it again in short order unless the Machine Heads can do some sort of trading with the rest of the world. So, the question is, what will it cost to bury this damn hatchet?"
The two ambassadors look at each other, taken aback by your sudden decision to go off like that, and before they can start spluttering over your words you hold up a hand and say, "Let us not talk of honour or blood debts, because those things are amazingly the easiest things to go away since the only way to get rid of them is to let them go. No, I shall not begrudge you your grudges, but let's not go around antagonizing each other with the Authority running around fighting aliens in the woods. That way leads to us all losing. So, let's sit down, tally the damages, and then work out who needs to pay what to make this, if not square, then at least only off true enough that we can all live with it, okay?"
Rolled 62 + 30 = 92
Good enough
Good enough
While your approach could have been better, it also could have been a lot worse. You eventually manage to force out of them a set of official apologies for past actions, and after a few weeks of arguing over the specifics of certain events, a deal is reached that both sides can agree is "fair", although there is more than a little bit of a problem. The damage the Machine Heads did to the 504s was considerable, even after subtracting off the damage the 504s did in return. The equivalent is worked out to come in at 8500C, which the Machine Heads certainly can't pay now and probably won't be able to repay for at least a generation unless considerable investment is put into their economy, which would be difficult if they were having to pay things off.
That... that is something you could be able to just pay for with only a bit of leaning on your banks until you could get your tax returns in, but it is going to put a major ding in your treasury.
You will...
[] Spot the Machine Heads the entire 8500C (0.5+d.10x)
[] Spot the Machine Heads what they can't pay on their own [6500C] (0.7+d.10x)
[] Offer a loan with reasonable terms [600C a year for 20 years repayment schedule] (0.7+d.10x)
[] Offer a loan with less reasonable terms [1000C a year for 20 years repayment schedule) (0.2+d.10x)
[] Try to convince the 504s to accept a payment schedule rather than a lump sum payment (0.6+d.10x)
[] Let them figure out payment on their own (0.3+d.10x)
Meanwhile word gets back to you on the people living out beyond Amethyst Gardens. While you have basically managed to break the back of organized raiding the area is still largely operating under rule by those with the most guns, or in some cases swords, available to them. While to an extent this is creating pressure to move away, there are those who are stubbornly clinging to their homes and there also those who would rather be the kings of shit mountain than peasants in paradise (such as it is, anyway).
Rolled 84 + 30 + 10 DC + 15 Prior Actions = 139
Major success
Major success
Still, your diplomats make a pretty good pitch and close to four hundred people decide to immigrate, among them nearly three dozen skilled artisans, a welcome boon. There is however, a problem to anything more than drips and drabs of people trickling in via immigration. The citizens of Librarian's Nook and Six Pillars simply feel that you are too far out to be able to get to them in a timely, efficient manner should something go wrong. You have vehicles and can get from Shattersaw to Amethyst Gardens in a few hours, but you don't have enough to move a meaningful number in a hurry. You will need to solve this logistics issue before you can expand further.
352 labourers gained
34 artisans gained
Fortunately Sammael and some of your businessmen have been discussing something along these lines. It will take a bit to properly engineer a solution, but with the compact reactors you should be able to build something along the lines of independently powered train cars to shuttle goods and people about between your settlements.
New Research Project Unlocked!
Land Train 0/200 - Basically just an oversized truck with a compact fusion reactor to haul trailers, this should be a cheap and efficient way to get people and cargo moving in bulk quantities through the rail network without having to bother with fixing the damaged energy systems for the original maglevs. Vehicle
While this sort of limitation is irritating, getting this sort of reliable logistics set up should allow you to start looking into extreme long haul missions that have been impractical in the past even with sap purification. While theoretically you could go anywhere in the rail network with long haul vehicles, for all practical purposes the limit of your ability to move is likely to get to the next hub cities, which likely have had their rail networks bombed into oblivion and thus you could not take the vehicles out of the lines without disassembling them and hand hauling them across the damage before reassembling them. Still, it is certainly a way to majorly open up the world.
END TURN
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
[X] Offer a loan with reasonable terms [600C a year for 20 years repayment schedule] (0.7+d.10x)
I'm willing to be reasonable, but I don't want to have Greengraft bear the major cost of this. But I'm open to being convinced otherwise.
I'm willing to be reasonable, but I don't want to have Greengraft bear the major cost of this. But I'm open to being convinced otherwise.
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redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Offering a loan with reasonable terms, or offering to pay out what they can't afford. Both of these options sounds good. The others not so much.
letting the machine heads pay back the 504s in payments sounds good, morally, but offers us nothing. No influence, no repayment, no bonuses at all.
letting the machine heads pay back the 504s in payments sounds good, morally, but offers us nothing. No influence, no repayment, no bonuses at all.
bookwyrm
Doom of Public Libraries
- Location
- Wichita, Kansas
We definitely want a system with maximum gratitude towards us and improve the economy the Machine Heads, since attack on mecha! is probably the only way we can meaningfully engage the Authority beyond the colonial cycle of 1. raise giant army 2. steal shinies 3. raid town 4. get genocided (which is bad). And we need a 'fleet' of mechs to pull it off, which means we need the Machine Heads (and everyone else) to build a bunch of mechs while we upgrade them.
You will...
[x] Offer a loan with reasonable terms [600C a year for 20 years repayment schedule] (0.7+d.10x)
I think we should go with the loan; it will allow the machine heads to pay the full reparation amount to the 504 and we get a steady income from them for the next 20 years.
Who thinks that we should dedicate a research slot to this project when we finish one of the projects that we are already doing?
Land Train 0/200 - Basically just an oversized truck with a compact fusion reactor to haul trailers, this should be a cheap and efficient way to get people and cargo moving in bulk quantities through the rail network without having to bother with fixing the damaged energy systems for the original maglevs. Vehicle
[x] Offer a loan with reasonable terms [600C a year for 20 years repayment schedule] (0.7+d.10x)
I think we should go with the loan; it will allow the machine heads to pay the full reparation amount to the 504 and we get a steady income from them for the next 20 years.
Who thinks that we should dedicate a research slot to this project when we finish one of the projects that we are already doing?
Land Train 0/200 - Basically just an oversized truck with a compact fusion reactor to haul trailers, this should be a cheap and efficient way to get people and cargo moving in bulk quantities through the rail network without having to bother with fixing the damaged energy systems for the original maglevs. Vehicle
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Yeah, guys, don't start voting yet. Our Eldar-induced Schizophrenia means that -not- changing your votes once a better consensus is achieved is really bad.
If a couple people vote early on, and never change their votes just because they don't have time to before the next update, that can be a serious problem due to random vote weighting.
If a couple people vote early on, and never change their votes just because they don't have time to before the next update, that can be a serious problem due to random vote weighting.
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Guys- keep in mind, if we loan the Machine Heads the money, we lose ALL the money the 504s want immediately. It's just that the Machine Heads may be paying us back over time. Assuming they aren't annihilated in the interim or subsumed into another polity or said loan otherwise becomes irrelevant. Which I view as pretty likely.
Just convincing the 504s to accept installments seems a lot better to me in that it doesn't gut our treasury.
Just convincing the 504s to accept installments seems a lot better to me in that it doesn't gut our treasury.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[] Spot the Machine Heads the entire 8500C (0.5+d.10x)
[] Spot the Machine Heads what they can't pay on their own [6500C] (0.7+d.10x)
I think we can generally agree that this isn't that good an idea.
[] Offer a loan with reasonable terms [600C a year for 20 years repayment schedule] (0.7+d.10x)
Hopfully gets us 5500C profit and leaves over 2000C for us, certainly gets us 3500C profit. Also, more goodwill.
[] Offer a loan with less reasonable terms [1000C a year for 20 years repayment schedule) (0.2+d.10x)
Damages our reputation, and might even force the MH's bankrupt. Probably not worth it. On the other hand, 20000C
[] Try to convince the 504s to accept a payment schedule rather than a lump sum payment (0.6+d.10x)
Lots of goodwill, but no actual leverage on anyone.
[] Let them figure out payment on their own (0.3+d.10x)
Basically wastes this diplomacy work.
I am predisposed toward the reasonable loan of 6500C, or the installment plan, if the loan would be 8500C.
EDIT- @Academia Nut how much would the loan be?
[] Spot the Machine Heads what they can't pay on their own [6500C] (0.7+d.10x)
I think we can generally agree that this isn't that good an idea.
[] Offer a loan with reasonable terms [600C a year for 20 years repayment schedule] (0.7+d.10x)
Hopfully gets us 5500C profit and leaves over 2000C for us, certainly gets us 3500C profit. Also, more goodwill.
[] Offer a loan with less reasonable terms [1000C a year for 20 years repayment schedule) (0.2+d.10x)
Damages our reputation, and might even force the MH's bankrupt. Probably not worth it. On the other hand, 20000C
[] Try to convince the 504s to accept a payment schedule rather than a lump sum payment (0.6+d.10x)
Lots of goodwill, but no actual leverage on anyone.
[] Let them figure out payment on their own (0.3+d.10x)
Basically wastes this diplomacy work.
I am predisposed toward the reasonable loan of 6500C, or the installment plan, if the loan would be 8500C.
EDIT- @Academia Nut how much would the loan be?
- Location
- Cyberspace
[] Offer a loan with reasonable terms [600C a year for 20 years repayment schedule] (0.7+d.10x)
I'm thinking this one is the best bet at following up in a year with going for tech-trades to take money off the principle.
I'm thinking this one is the best bet at following up in a year with going for tech-trades to take money off the principle.
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
[] Offer a loan with reasonable terms [600C a year for 20 years repayment schedule] (0.7+d.10x)
[] Try to convince the 504s to accept a payment schedule rather than a lump sum payment (0.6+d.10x)
These two seem like the best choice. We don't want the 504s to feel like we're helping their former rivals too much but we also want to establish better relations with the MH.
[] Try to convince the 504s to accept a payment schedule rather than a lump sum payment (0.6+d.10x)
These two seem like the best choice. We don't want the 504s to feel like we're helping their former rivals too much but we also want to establish better relations with the MH.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
8500C, which means that the Machine Heads will actually have money to throw at their infrastructure to expand it and thus their economy.
Reasonable!?! <3.7% is "reasonable"? For third-party twenty-year financing of emerging-market war reparations to one of our allies they were conducting a violently offensive ideological campaign against? They want a better rate than AA US corporate bonds from the fastest-growing economy in the region already aching for capital investment?
Here's an idea: we give them access to our financial markets and let them try to raise the funds from the private sector, then wait for their representative to come back with expectations recalibrated to something that won't make us laugh in his face.
Unfortunately, it appears that financing the whole amount at anything approaching sane rates considering the risks, time frames, and opportunity costs involved requires going over their horizon. We need to talk about equity. If nothing else, opening up Greengraft foreign direct investment opportunities should be a huge boost to our economy to partly offset the losses involved in such low loan interest.
There may be another option: we are the leader of Shattersaw by an overwhelming mandate largely composed of 504 votes, and with Maxwell have two thirds of the council votes (the Dragonflies would just love propping up while indebting a 504 rival). We could arrange for Shattersaw to make the loan, with the notes held equally by the three constituents. We only have to cough up 1/3rd the total, the 504 are forced to take on a vested interest in the success of the Machine Heads, and we can probably work into the agreement something about guaranteed unrestricted trade with Shattersaw or possibly the Machine Heads being required to buy into the alliance with an increased amount. We might even be able to get the Machine Head holdings classified as part of Shattersaw and make them entirely Shattersaw citizens.
Since we are technically allies with the 504, and have already assisted them in their war, the implicit threat that we will do so again if we perceive the Machine Heads as being unreasonable is very credible. We are in a position here to force a powerful enough union with enough established return for us to invest heavily without constantly guarding against betrayal, but we need to actually hammer that arrangement out. If the Mechies complain too hard we can turn to the 504 and start loudly negotiating how much of the Mechy territory they'll sell us in exchange for the use of our army for a few months of mech smashing.
Here's an idea: we give them access to our financial markets and let them try to raise the funds from the private sector, then wait for their representative to come back with expectations recalibrated to something that won't make us laugh in his face.
Unfortunately, it appears that financing the whole amount at anything approaching sane rates considering the risks, time frames, and opportunity costs involved requires going over their horizon. We need to talk about equity. If nothing else, opening up Greengraft foreign direct investment opportunities should be a huge boost to our economy to partly offset the losses involved in such low loan interest.
There may be another option: we are the leader of Shattersaw by an overwhelming mandate largely composed of 504 votes, and with Maxwell have two thirds of the council votes (the Dragonflies would just love propping up while indebting a 504 rival). We could arrange for Shattersaw to make the loan, with the notes held equally by the three constituents. We only have to cough up 1/3rd the total, the 504 are forced to take on a vested interest in the success of the Machine Heads, and we can probably work into the agreement something about guaranteed unrestricted trade with Shattersaw or possibly the Machine Heads being required to buy into the alliance with an increased amount. We might even be able to get the Machine Head holdings classified as part of Shattersaw and make them entirely Shattersaw citizens.
Since we are technically allies with the 504, and have already assisted them in their war, the implicit threat that we will do so again if we perceive the Machine Heads as being unreasonable is very credible. We are in a position here to force a powerful enough union with enough established return for us to invest heavily without constantly guarding against betrayal, but we need to actually hammer that arrangement out. If the Mechies complain too hard we can turn to the 504 and start loudly negotiating how much of the Mechy territory they'll sell us in exchange for the use of our army for a few months of mech smashing.
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I hope that train project can be a joint research project. Building trains and rail lines serve not only to improve relations, infrastructure and economy of Greengraft and other settlements, but also the 504's and Dragonflies. Hell, it'd build closer ties to the point that we could strengthen the Federation we have going on here.