Yes and all psych 1 students are unwilling lab experiments too :rolleyes:.

My god the ethical conundrums! They may never recover.

Oh wait this is being tested in something she's actively being trained in. She's learning and people are writing down how well she's doing.

All students - from elementary to college - are being unwillingly experimented upon! MY GOD! CLOSE THE SCHOOLS IMMEDIATELY MAN! TEACHERS ARE NAZIS! STANDARDIZED TESTS ARE WRITTEN BY MENGELE!

If they are being forced to participate literally at gunpoint yes, yes they are. Elementary school students are a better comparison to the ethics of the situation, but that involves telling the indignant, independent-minded teenager that she is a child who can't be trusted to make her own decisions and hoping that she decides to take that point of view instead of "the people who are threatening to drop a nuclear weapon on you are using you, come join us and be appreciated".



:Citation Needed:
We never used that argument more than a single time to pull her into our care in the first place. We have, in fact, not had to threaten her except to get her training, and we did that by proving 'we're the bigger fish' to her, rather than wasting time with 'I'll sick my friends' nukes on you'.

You then get up and say, "Now, we have a choice: you can follow my instructions and we play nice, or I keep reminding you that I am stronger than you. And even if you get lucky, I'm the one with air support on my side. You will find no friends and a very angry Duchess if you decide to take a swing at me. Now, are we going to have a meditation session, or do I have to raise my voice?"

It sounds like it's just puppies and kittens between the two of them. Mirande made it very clear that this was state action with the full backing of state military might. She got compliance by threatening her. What little connection has grown since then is so fragile that a few weeks away would shatter it hard enough to make it a major part of the decision.



Didn't you also say we should or would be forced to out and out kill Jinah as soon as we saw her? Then when that didn't happen, you led a short campaign for maximum isolation. Now that that's failed miserably, and once again you've proved you're wildly overstating every risk you can so much as get a glance at by taking three explicitly stated low risk events, blowing at least one of them so far out of proportion it's almost comical, and assuming that all three of the major FT checks will roll the dice so badly that we're basically doomed from the outset.

Turn your jackassery meter back below level twelve before you break into Reese's Pieces.

No and no? I talked a lot about the dangers of dragons, which did indeed show up and almost created an incident culminating in a nuclear explosion, and the importance of security, which has been hammered home by Mirande's need to point out that she has a literal army backing her up in order to get anything done. I haven't even made any predictions at all about the outcome of this vote and am in fact tempted to bring her despite the risks, I just dislike the outrageous optimism which is being used by others to completely ignore those risks. Brainwashing is not the major threat to her allegiance, and we may be confronted with choices very soon where understanding that is very important. Psychic brainwashing is a pretty flat risk no matter what situations she has in the city, but allowing her to go have a night partying on the town to reward her and help her socialize presents the additional risk of an opposing agent making friends and having a deep, nonpsychic conversation with her which should not be waved away with "oh, but any flipping is going to be because of psychic powers, obviously".
 
Now how should we go about Accelerating the formation of Slaanesh?

and also make sure it gets even the outliers on the craft world's and such...

Bluntly put as AN might say...you can't. This is part of the Meta arch of the story, we as players and the PCs don't affect that. What we however might affect is our own niche in the story. The Deldar was basically the only thing holding back a whole host of his impetuous younglings who had wanted to play "Lets disect the frog" on the humans, mind you purely for his own selfish amusement but nonetheless he could afford to play the long game in his/her/its mind. By killing off the deldar we lost that bit of a respite, on the offset tho pyschoreactive materials should now be easier to harvest as well as getting a very early look into eldar tech. Remember Dandriss itself is the unholy combination of eldar tech, necron tech (potentially as a tomb world) and perhaps even c'tan essence gone apeshit bonkers. Pursuing this area of fusion tech may be the only safe "winning" route that doesn't have us experience a massive crapton of negatives and actually may present a potential "hope" for mankind whenever 40k comes rolling around.
 
Psychic brainwashing is a pretty flat risk no matter what situations she has in the city, but allowing her to go have a night partying on the town to reward her and help her socialize presents the additional risk of an opposing agent making friends and having a deep, nonpsychic conversation with her which should not be waved away with "oh, but any flipping is going to be because of psychic powers, obviously".
I like how you're mischaracterizing basically all of the recent arguments anyway. 'Oh we all think it'll be a psychic mind screw, yeah' except that if you look into the last three or four pages, all of us are considering that it's the BTR agent that's going to turn her against us, not the under 10 year old bratty telepath.
 
Lail, look at it this way. This is the one opportunity we get to fully test her loyalties without a ton on the line. If she can be trivially flipped by the random Psyker in the city, then we really don't want her around when the Daemons stop trying to eat her and start tempting her with eternal life as long as she does one little thing. And frankly, if she is going to go nova, I would rather it happen in a settlement that isn't ours. Finally, we don't really need all of the Psykers to follow us, we just need them to not follow Chaos.
 
[X] You will make it up to her after you return (1.4x) (One of your training actions lost for the turn)

I still firmly believe that taking Jinah with us the wrong choice. Its only been part of one year. Its not even been a full damn year yet. Yes, we need to trust her some time. But that is *after* we knock the 'might makes right' mentality she formed for herself out of her.
 
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Well then, I ran a tally and it is currently:

Vote tally:
##### 3.19
[X] You will make it up to her after you return (1.4x) (One of your training actions lost for the turn)
No. of votes: 7
trewsad55, wingstrike96, Delcer, veekie, random_npc, ReaperofInterest, aceraptor
[X] You trust Jinah, you will take her with you (1.2x)
No. of votes: 35
Nix, jacobplm, redzonejoe, CircleTheSkies, Ekans Ekans Ekans, George, The Laurent, Powerofmind, Faintrosity, vel10, kitsune9, Hannz, Strypgia, masterofmadness, Robotninja, Antumbra, Thrice-Blessed22, Slamu, FunkyEntropy, Seventeen, Yorick's Skull, racnor, Parzival, Vlad, Doomsough, ninjafish, Avoozl, Hangwind, Ridiculously Average Guy, Odysseus2099, PrimalShadow, butchock, Alectai, Akritedes, Nianque

Which is pretty damn decisive. I think I can get this done tonight.
 
Well then, I ran a tally and it is currently:

Vote tally:
##### 3.19
[X] You will make it up to her after you return (1.4x) (One of your training actions lost for the turn)
No. of votes: 7
trewsad55, wingstrike96, Delcer, veekie, random_npc, ReaperofInterest, aceraptor
[X] You trust Jinah, you will take her with you (1.2x)
No. of votes: 35
Nix, jacobplm, redzonejoe, CircleTheSkies, Ekans Ekans Ekans, George, The Laurent, Powerofmind, Faintrosity, vel10, kitsune9, Hannz, Strypgia, masterofmadness, Robotninja, Antumbra, Thrice-Blessed22, Slamu, FunkyEntropy, Seventeen, Yorick's Skull, racnor, Parzival, Vlad, Doomsough, ninjafish, Avoozl, Hangwind, Ridiculously Average Guy, Odysseus2099, PrimalShadow, butchock, Alectai, Akritedes, Nianque

Which is pretty damn decisive. I think I can get this done tonight.

Double update, hot damn. This calls for celebration!



Levitation Nation Celebration! :D
 
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To be fair to @ninjafish I would have his attitude if we were talking about Tyranids though. The fact that the Emperor brought them to the 40K galaxy is one of the (many) reasons that I think we should gank him if possible.
 
To be fair to @ninjafish I would have his attitude if we were talking about Tyranids though. The fact that the Emperor brought them to the 40K galaxy is one of the (many) reasons that I think we should gank him if possible.

if we had the entire military might of dendriss behind us, the element of surprise, and were willing to summon demons and use sorcery and managed to catch him away from his forces, we might be able to wound him before he obliterates us. the big E is waaaaaaay above our weight class.

thats aside from the many, many, many other reasons that would be a terrible idea.
 
You're being too overt. Turn the knob back about 3 points and you'll be at Lail level of silliness.


You underestimate the girth of my hateboner for the eldar.

And really elf/arrogant elder races in general, i hate it when they show up in fiction.

The only thing special about the Eldar is that they got handouts from an actual superior elder race.

Every thing the eldar take so much pride in, that they claim proves their superiority, was handed to them by the Old Ones, or stolen by the eldar from the Old Ones dying hands.

Atleast humanity earned each of its achievement's, no matter how paltry they may have been.

The Eldar grew complacent and corrupt whilst feeding on the stolen fruits of anothers labour.

The shit state of warhammer 40k?

the Eldar's fault.

The Age of strife?

The Eldar's fault.

Slaanesh's entire existence?

The Eldar's fault.

for a more relevant example to this quest?

Maximillian's Death? Dia's madness and corruption? Elsa's and Andraste's psychosis?

Entirely the fucking Eldar's fucking fault!

The ordained one's massive rip in reality and massive level of power despite the level of training?

All the Eldars fault.


I HATE them, i hate them all, i want to mount their skulls on pikes and bath in their fucking blood.
 
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if we had the entire military might of dendriss behind us, the element of surprise, and were willing to summon demons and use sorcery and managed to catch him away from his forces, we might be able to wound him before he obliterates us. the big E is waaaaaaay above our weight class.

thats aside from the many, many, many other reasons that would be a terrible idea.

I expect Final Mirande, with all stats and disciplines maxed, to be roughly Primarch level in the end. High primarch level maybe. Like, Malcador +/- 0.5 except better at more things than Malcador, basically.

Not even close to laying a finger on Emps.
 
Lail, look at it this way. This is the one opportunity we get to fully test her loyalties without a ton on the line. If she can be trivially flipped by the random Psyker in the city, then we really don't want her around when the Daemons stop trying to eat her and start tempting her with eternal life as long as she does one little thing. And frankly, if she is going to go nova, I would rather it happen in a settlement that isn't ours. Finally, we don't really need all of the Psykers to follow us, we just need them to not follow Chaos.

The issue that needs to be kept in mind is that she could be easily flipped by a nonpsyker through completely mundane persuasion. There hasn't actually been much time to build loyalty and from her perspective it does really look like she has been abducted and is being brainwashed against her will by some crazy cult, because that is what Mirande is actually doing. The cult isn't crazy, but she has no way of really knowing or confirming anything she has been exposed to in her total institution. She could very well grow into somebody very loyal and reliable as she heals and relationships are built (-and a proper institution is actually built for her and people like her instead of kludged together after the fact), but right now she is a damaged kid who is being bullied on a daily basis by a crazy woman obsessed with pain.

If this were a fairy tail Mirande would be the wicked stepmother.
 
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