There are only two options I can see, and that's more education or more powers. Given we're a diviner psyker, who hate a greater daemon of Tzeentch, and critted his number during a fate manipulation event I'm inclined to go with education unless it's clarified further.

[X] Invest towards improved education trait

Could you clarify why that makes you want to choose education over more powers. Is it because you envisage more powers being chaos related or because you think we'll get some kind of super boost due to roll synergy for the education trait?
 
There are only two options I can see, and that's more education or more powers. Given we're a diviner psyker, who hate a greater daemon of Tzeentch, and critted his number during a fate manipulation event I'm inclined to go with education unless it's clarified further.

[X] Invest towards improved education trait

Despite arguing the hardest for Education, I'm very close to switching my vote right now as is. But I really do want to hear more from AN about how the education option works before I decide either way.
 
Actually, it might have been a better argument to argue that "We would have gotten this increase to Education from a thing we did on our own, not because of Daemons" rather than taking the route of mentioning Daemons and Tzeentch's number again and again. :V

Because I certainly would prefer that it was our knowledge growing.

... And in fact, since we possibly-paranoidally noted at one point "What if we keep getting manipulated into these situations exactly in order to tempt us to use Sorcery?" ... and yet we got out of this situation WITHOUT sorcery, and grew from it without Sorcery... ... Then that might be evidence against the thought that it's anything to do with Daemons.

Because what happened was that we didn't use Sorcery, we used our Foresight as usual, and we actually improved.

tl;dr God I really hope it's not Daemons. :V
I do suspect that the kind of unique situation of a bonus to telepathy training from the paradox cube may apply to improved education here, depending on whether it's through integration of the Daemon's knowledge or completely novel insight due to our fate manipulation. Either way, it seems like a non-reproducible event, given that it required multiple crits, tzeentch's holy number and really abnormal warp interactions. I feel like it's the one thing on this list that we can't drum up on our own time while we're on the road. We can work on education with an action, but we can't necessarily grasp these specific insights again. This is the option that has the most obvious synergy with the themes of the update.
Hopefully it's not through more integration of Daemon stuff.

In fact, I hope that since this time we would be gaining this from stuff we did ourselves rather than eating a Daemon, it would actually help offset the fact that we got so much Virtual Education from a Daemon.

This would be Education that we'd gain from a thing we did on our own. Not because we happened to eat a Daemon.

And I think it might not actually be that good a thing to keep harping on the "Tzeentch's number" bit. At all. Tzeentch is not our friend.
Basically, my thinking is this.

If this gets us 50 years of virtual insight that we otherwise could not get, or gets us 50 years of Daemon Knowledge deciphered safely, when we otherwise don't even know how to approach integrating that yet? Either of those will be well worth it. The first one is absolutely irreplaceable, and the latter is still (probably) harder to replicate than grinding powers with training actions.
I really hope it's the former. And I'm honestly not sure what to do or feel about the Daemon stuff at this point.

We've been feeling tempted to use Sorcery. (And at the start, we actually had to roll temptation to not use it. We were in a situation where we thought we were totally fucked and would face a horrible fate by Deldar. And we decided that using Sorcery would have been worse than that.)

At this point I'm not even really convinced of the safety of the "safe" parts of Sorcery that get brought up by (IIRC) Alratan time and again.
 
PRAISE THE DICE GODS

PRAISE THEM IN THEIR INEFFABLE GLORY


Damn this thread moves fast.
[X] Invest towards improved education trait

Pushing towards Mirande as God Empress of Mankind. I'll switch it up to more powers depending on what the QM has to say about it.
 
Perhaps people will learn not to panic next time - an epic roll is an excuse for AN to have epic things happen, whether or not its *us* that rolled it or does the epic things.

Don't get me wrong, a 'substantial' boost towards the next education level is tantalizing, but what Mirande needs right now is variety of powers. And some more disciplines, but "more powers" is a bit more important in my mind.

[X] More powers
 
In that case, we need to seriously examine the need for rapidly pushing the next level of the Education trait. I know there are significant benefits, but once we have a certain level of power, the push should be more for breadth, not depth. We're already deeper than most threats we're likely to encounter; what we lack is any ability to deal with them in ways that aren't "foresee them better."

In this specific case, yes. In general, improved Future Telling may be very useful, if only to try to learn how to detect the interference caused by other Diviners so we can deal with them.

Now though, I think we need more powers, as we're very short on them.
 
Big Snip (Not to be confused with Vasectomy)
Well that's a whole bunch of really good points. I was so caught up looking at benefits and numbers I didn't consider negative implications so much. Either way, I've been hoping all along that it's virtual education years independent of the Daemon. If that's the case, it was going to be a lock for my vote no matter what. Still waiting to hear back from AN on that front.

Otherwise? ... All of it might be coincidental and irrelevant. Or some kind of elaborate plot- though the fact that we didn't bow to the sorcerous instinct is quite good, as you said. Gotta wait and see, really.

At this point I'm not gonna be mad no matter what wins. Although I still hope that it's long-term development, personally. We have a lot of assets to use, and ways to grind powers. Those points remain true.

Good observations all around, though. Lot of stuff I hadn't been considering.

You're the truest rebel.
 
for every one that thinks this will provide virtual years of education to Mirande towards the psyker education trait please note that is not what this option will do.

Age is a limiting factor for grabbing the tiers of education traits beyond the 4th.

It goes

Primaris 0 years required Tier 4
Master Psyker 100 years required Tier 5
Grand Master Psyker 200 years required Tier 6
High Grand Master Psyker 500 years required Tier 7

Thanks to consuming the daemon we have the 200 years needed which is an age limitation.

We integrated all the way to Master psyker previously. Now we are at the point where have to naturally learn the Grand master psyker education trait and that means we'll need to spend normal actions towards it like we would have needed to do with Primaris psyker level.

That means this action will provide a flat collection of numerical points to advance towards Grand master psyker and nothing else. We will not be gaining virtual years towards becoming the tier after this.

tl;dr

The years shickt is literally just gate keeping until the character is old enough to be able to learn the new trait. It's meant to be a way of limiting character growth outside of extremely bizzare circumstances.

Something which this situation didn't interact with in that manner.
 
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for every one that thinks this will provide virtual years of education to Mirande towards the psyker education trait please note that is not what this option will do.

Age is a limiting factor for grabbing the tiers of education traits beyond the 4th.

It goes

Primaris 0 years required Tier 4
Master Psyker 100 years required Tier 5
Grand Master Psyker 200 years required Tier 6
High Grand Master Psyker 500 years required Tier 7

Thanks to consuming the daemon we have the 200 years needed which is an age limitation.

We integrated all the way to Master psyker previously. Now we are at the point where have to naturally learn the Grand master psyker education trait and that means we'll need to spend normal actions towards it like we would have needed to do with Primaris psyker level.

That means this action will provide a flat collection of numerical points to advance towards Grand master psyker and nothing else. We will not be gaining virtual years towards becoming the tier after this.

Well if that's actually the case, that clarifies most of my confusion. ... So it really comes down to relative amount, and how much efficiency we sacrifice taking the More Powers option.

... which is unclear. Although I have to assume that AN put them forth in a way where they've all got roughly equal adjusted benefits, given that they're a bonus for a critical success, right?
 
At this point I'm not even really convinced of the safety of the "safe" parts of Sorcery that get brought up by (IIRC) Alratan time and again.

You'll find that I'm one of the more opposed to using sorcery.

Even the 'safe' bits are exceptionally dangerous. I'd want the Eldar Index at least for cross checking purposes before we considered doing anything with it whatsoever. If it wasn't for Dia's corruption, I wouldn't have even wanted to use the amounts required to ward her.
 
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Hmm. So you think if it applies here it might be a mixed blessing? Because we've definitely yielded benefit from the sanctic sorcery part, but there's always the temptation to use it for darker purposes (which we thankfully have enough willpower to resist consistently).

Basically any shinies gained from the numerological connection might be a double-edged sword, is what you're saying.

Also I guess that means it's less likely to give us a synergistic bonus, unless the education trait-up here is specifically due to integrating the Daemon's virtual knowledge faster. Still waiting to hear from AN on that one.
I'm just hoping that not every roll of a 99 is significant. Hopefully it was just the one time for Sorcery, as it was a uniquely and strongly Tzeentch-associated thing.

If anything, I hope that since we: refrained from using Sorcery, used our Foresight instead, and now grow from awesome rolls here, it would imply that we are gaining insight because of how lucky and accomplished we were. (Or tl;dr again -- I hope that it's not Daemons, that in fact it is never Daemons.)
Otherwise? ... All of it might be coincidental and irrelevant. Or some kind of elaborate plot- though the fact that we didn't bow to the sorcerous instinct is quite good, as you said. Gotta wait and see, really.
Well to be fair, Mirande does have the Paranoid trait.

Though anybody would rightly be concerned after having eaten parts of a Daemon.

God I wish we can just get a (friendly, helpful) Eldar to help us out with all this.
 
Well if that's actually the case, that clarifies most of my confusion. ... So it really comes down to relative amount, and how much efficiency we sacrifice taking the More Powers option.

... which is unclear. Although I have to assume that AN put them forth in a way where they've all got roughly equal adjusted benefits, given that they're a bonus for a critical success, right?


My view is this.

Telepathy 2 as a discipline implies a degree of sklil/finesse with the discipline as a whole even if it means Mirande would end up with less powers than if she choose the more powers option. it's clearly sub-optimal as a choice BUT the big benefit is that it means that Mirande is more technically skilled in the field. When she tries shit that is way outside of the purview of her actual powers in the area like say

"Eat these peoples souls to save them" she has a greater chance of success and less chance of downsides because she understands the powerset more and isn't working from very incomplete knowledge.

Therefore telepathy 2 can be looked at as granting more outside the box abilities in that field but still only really with very dangerous attempts at using the discipline in non standard ways.

More powers is what it states on the box. Mirande grabs more powers. I think this will provide less numerical points than the the education trait option will do so purely in terms of actions it WILL be a little less efficient BUT because of the way things build on each other it's still a very efficient choice.
 
Will taking the education trait + consuming some souls be enough to bring us up to Grand Master?

No, or at least I very highly doubt it.

They dont interact in that way.

Consuming souls MIGHT as they probably wont be psykers give us some years of age towards unlocking the ability to learn the next tier of psyker afterwards but it will have no interaction with the current trait.

We'd also need to grab 300 years of virtual education to be able to unlock the next tier. I really doubt this will happen with anything less than consuming another Greater daemon or consuming the Deldar.
 
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Well, there's a powerful but untrained psyker in the vehicle with us.

He may not realise that rather us being locked in here with him, he's locked in here with us...

As I recall, he seems to have a Biomancer power.

hahaha.. I think it might be a little cruel to casually eat the guy that just saved us. At least lets find out if he's a bad guy before considering that :p
 
Ah screw it a third seems worth it
[X] Invest towards improved education trait
 
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I suppose it's probably foolish of me for asking but have you read the rest of the discussion yet? One of the things AN mentioned we'd need was also Mind reading at tier 4 and possibly uplink at a higher level.
Actually telepathy IV and mind reading (3) is enough to copy with maximal safety, assuming we take care of the mutual corruption issue.
 
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