Rihaku
The Internet
What foibles?! What could you have done differently in his situation? Focused less, thus been weaker, increasing your risk of perpetual torment in a world you failed to outscale?
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
What foibles?! What could you have done differently in his situation? Focused less, thus been weaker, increasing your risk of perpetual torment in a world you failed to outscale?
Vocalist
Verdant Maiden in Violet
- Location
- By a Cedar Tree
Well this is...a lot to take in. I'm going to jump into the speculation pit and say that the Ur-Mother is working with/is one of the Hidden Ones that screwed Hunger over originally. She hates the Forebear for destroying her creative torture universes and making them all bland and boring and Earth-like (at least, that's my reading - she didn't exactly get much of a chance to make her case). What was Hunger doing when he got suddenly shanked? Making a horrible, oppressive place more Earthlike! Furthermore he was already the bearer of the Forebear's sword back then, a reminder of her old enemy which might have drawn the Ur-Mother's particular ire. Surely she thought that screwing with this petty little hero would be some easy stress relief - and she would have been right, if the Accursed hadn't decided to pop in and give that hero the power to survive and, eventually, kick her ass.
- Location
- Pindorama
The dude left his sword on purpose, so I don't think he will some back to grab it. I don't think we need to worry about him in the scope of the quest anyway, and as Progression-type we can surpass even him eventually. I don't see why the worry.
We aren't in his situation though. That it was the best possible path doesn't mean it was flawless, and we are privileged enough to avoid such things. He was a man that had to rely on the cut of his sword because he had nothing else; that's not the case for us!
I was going to say the Ur-Mother died, but on re-read it only mentions she was defeated and and that her multiverse was without her. So it's possible she survived and fled, which wow, I don't know if that's lucky or unlucky. It would be weird if the Forebear's Sword was found in a universe she controlled though, unless he was a later arrival. Either way i guess it's possible.
That brings something else to mind. The Forebear is dead. There is a reason that we wield his sword after all.
Does that mean that the Hidden Masters were the ones who were able to kill the Forebear?
That really hammers home why we need to be a Progression Type Curse-bearer in order to stand a chance against the Hidden Masters in a non-infinite time span.
Does that mean that the Hidden Masters were the ones who were able to kill the Forebear?
That really hammers home why we need to be a Progression Type Curse-bearer in order to stand a chance against the Hidden Masters in a non-infinite time span.
Strange9
hdellaverson@gmail.com
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
It's very possible... but the Forebear dunked on the Ur-Mother in his mere 1000th world (of the uncountable number he eventually subjugated). Moreover, we know that the Hidden Ones are beyond the power that an Imperial Praxis Combat Hunger could ever have achieved in finite time. Either the Ur-Mother got a lot buffer or there's more of a thematic connection than a literal one.
There is an absolutely staggering amount of Deep Lore in this update, which means I'm a happy camper indeed. The much-vaunted Power of Ruin having its origins in a creator deity's death curse on the Forebear is only the tip of the iceberg. Casually subverting the Ur-Mother's final, futile gesture (so many lives squandered on spite...) and using it to replace her function is impressive. It also reminds me of someone, another determinator who easily takes up the tools of his enemies. The defining power of the Forebear that preceded and even enabled his ability to Cut Through is reincarnation.
We can see how the story of Justinan Amarlt's life echoes the Forebear's, the terms used to describe their training are actually similar. "Look through the cycle, and where I am needed, there you will find me," those were their forebear's words. No wonder his standards were (are?) so high that Vanreir's father's life constituted mere proof of sincerity. The notes cite the tendency to slide into stagnation once one's goals are achieved: the Amarlt, the Tyrant, the entire arc of Earth's mundane history, all evince this trend. It's clear that the Amarlt are another branch of the Forebear's tree, the garden grown fallow absent the Forebear's guiding hand. Piercing's even mentioned in the Hour of Reckoning, the first in a series of verbs culminating in the legendary Cut.
But that's a tangent, let's talk more about reincarnation. The supposed death of old age, always a suspicious datum, makes more sense in context. If the Forebear was forever reincarnating then that'd be a convenient denouement and way to depart a world, not his actual end. That was a tall order anyway, we already knew the tomb the Blade rested on in the Catacombs was empty. But if Hunger's previous world was just one more turn of the wheel, why leave the Blade behind? We can theorize that he grew beyond the need for it. He can cut through without the Blade in hand, we saw that when the Ur-Mother attempted Talk no Jutsu (truly an insidious technique), but the artifact's essential to his being. Saying you've 'transcended' your sword is an Aizen-tier mistake, not something I'd expect of a man defined by his ability to sword the impossible. Even the Accursed still carries Ambition with him.
My theory is this: the Forebear came to the domain of the Hidden Ones. That much we know to be true. For some fridge horror, consider how horrible they must be if they're further in the Procession of Worlds than the likes of the Ur-Mother; no wonder attempting to introduce basic democracy didn't go over well. And then, perhaps, he lost or at least achieved a pyrrhic victory. He did demonstrably plant another Dynastic seed, but the Blade's presence indicates something went wrong. Or maybe he tried to cut himself free of the Procession, having at last reached the limits of his endurance.
What does an error look like, for a serial reincarnator? A blank slate, only a few basic traits carried over? Things like an affinity for Abduction, the ability to grab a curse or a cloak and forge something useful from the enemy's tools. Being from Earth but remembering little of it. The willingness and ability to sacrifice your name for power. We were offered the Kinslayer Feat from Vanreir (what I wouldn't give to have him in our head reacting to this), who Hunger has no relation to. But the Forebear would.
It's not as if turning out to be a reincarnated swordsman of unimaginable power is unprecedented, in Rihaku's quests. Is this why the Accursed was sad, when Hunger elected Vengeance over Freedom? Because it would hurl him into another Procession of woes, when he's already suffered so much in this and previous lives? For now it's just a theory, but damn if it isn't a fitting one.
There's no mention of the Forebear being a Cursebearer here, but the parallels between Indenture and the Procession are obvious. The latter feels almost like an alternate 'upgrade' tree for the Geas; the Indentured are offered (at least Seram was) Rivalry which leads to Culling after that. The Forebear thinks in terms of tasks, but there's no mention of the Accursed and 'curse' wasn't capitalized in his narration. Still, Occam's Razor suggests the phenomenon of Procession's at least related.
All in all, I'd like Hunger's reaction to be Forebear-positive. After all, he may be the Forebear. Some of us were concerned about him being an abject monster, but the truth is more tragic and sympathetic than our wildest imaginings. I railed against the Fates' numerous atrocities back in EFB, yet here the reveler-gods who eclipsed them in evil were in turn rendered irrelevant by the Berserkers, themselves nothing more than mindless pawns of the Ur-Mother's lesser aspect. Is it... just parasitic pyramid schemes all the way down? Is every horror nothing more than a means of empowerment for the true monsters, feeding on human suffering and lives on such a scale that adjectives like 'industrial' are utterly inadequate? The Fates were Nameless' first and only hurdle, their abhorrent cycle of Ages a pond compared to the ocean of evil we witnessed here. He won, and slid comfortably into stagnation.
But for the Forebear, it wasTuesday Monday. Imagine the horror of that being a quaint prelude. A world barely getting into the triple digits, not even an outright torture dimension. What wondrous resolve it must take to know with iron surety that the worst is yet to come, and persist anyway! Confident in cutting down all comers, still sowing the seeds of human flourishing in spite of all that? How can we not admire the sheer strength, not just of Blade but of character!
Also, speaking of EFB, the Ur-Mother's name-fixation is a worrying parallel to the Fates. They offered us an orb to sacrifice ours. Supposedly that was to dehumanize Nameless (as if they have any troubles stemming from excess empathy), but it could've been patching a weak point in Summer's quest for worthy opponents? It can't be a coincidence that higher beings prefer the definite article + adjective/noun naming scheme...
We can see how the story of Justinan Amarlt's life echoes the Forebear's, the terms used to describe their training are actually similar. "Look through the cycle, and where I am needed, there you will find me," those were their forebear's words. No wonder his standards were (are?) so high that Vanreir's father's life constituted mere proof of sincerity. The notes cite the tendency to slide into stagnation once one's goals are achieved: the Amarlt, the Tyrant, the entire arc of Earth's mundane history, all evince this trend. It's clear that the Amarlt are another branch of the Forebear's tree, the garden grown fallow absent the Forebear's guiding hand. Piercing's even mentioned in the Hour of Reckoning, the first in a series of verbs culminating in the legendary Cut.
But that's a tangent, let's talk more about reincarnation. The supposed death of old age, always a suspicious datum, makes more sense in context. If the Forebear was forever reincarnating then that'd be a convenient denouement and way to depart a world, not his actual end. That was a tall order anyway, we already knew the tomb the Blade rested on in the Catacombs was empty. But if Hunger's previous world was just one more turn of the wheel, why leave the Blade behind? We can theorize that he grew beyond the need for it. He can cut through without the Blade in hand, we saw that when the Ur-Mother attempted Talk no Jutsu (truly an insidious technique), but the artifact's essential to his being. Saying you've 'transcended' your sword is an Aizen-tier mistake, not something I'd expect of a man defined by his ability to sword the impossible. Even the Accursed still carries Ambition with him.
My theory is this: the Forebear came to the domain of the Hidden Ones. That much we know to be true. For some fridge horror, consider how horrible they must be if they're further in the Procession of Worlds than the likes of the Ur-Mother; no wonder attempting to introduce basic democracy didn't go over well. And then, perhaps, he lost or at least achieved a pyrrhic victory. He did demonstrably plant another Dynastic seed, but the Blade's presence indicates something went wrong. Or maybe he tried to cut himself free of the Procession, having at last reached the limits of his endurance.
What does an error look like, for a serial reincarnator? A blank slate, only a few basic traits carried over? Things like an affinity for Abduction, the ability to grab a curse or a cloak and forge something useful from the enemy's tools. Being from Earth but remembering little of it. The willingness and ability to sacrifice your name for power. We were offered the Kinslayer Feat from Vanreir (what I wouldn't give to have him in our head reacting to this), who Hunger has no relation to. But the Forebear would.
It's not as if turning out to be a reincarnated swordsman of unimaginable power is unprecedented, in Rihaku's quests. Is this why the Accursed was sad, when Hunger elected Vengeance over Freedom? Because it would hurl him into another Procession of woes, when he's already suffered so much in this and previous lives? For now it's just a theory, but damn if it isn't a fitting one.
There's no mention of the Forebear being a Cursebearer here, but the parallels between Indenture and the Procession are obvious. The latter feels almost like an alternate 'upgrade' tree for the Geas; the Indentured are offered (at least Seram was) Rivalry which leads to Culling after that. The Forebear thinks in terms of tasks, but there's no mention of the Accursed and 'curse' wasn't capitalized in his narration. Still, Occam's Razor suggests the phenomenon of Procession's at least related.
All in all, I'd like Hunger's reaction to be Forebear-positive. After all, he may be the Forebear. Some of us were concerned about him being an abject monster, but the truth is more tragic and sympathetic than our wildest imaginings. I railed against the Fates' numerous atrocities back in EFB, yet here the reveler-gods who eclipsed them in evil were in turn rendered irrelevant by the Berserkers, themselves nothing more than mindless pawns of the Ur-Mother's lesser aspect. Is it... just parasitic pyramid schemes all the way down? Is every horror nothing more than a means of empowerment for the true monsters, feeding on human suffering and lives on such a scale that adjectives like 'industrial' are utterly inadequate? The Fates were Nameless' first and only hurdle, their abhorrent cycle of Ages a pond compared to the ocean of evil we witnessed here. He won, and slid comfortably into stagnation.
But for the Forebear, it was
Also, speaking of EFB, the Ur-Mother's name-fixation is a worrying parallel to the Fates. They offered us an orb to sacrifice ours. Supposedly that was to dehumanize Nameless (as if they have any troubles stemming from excess empathy), but it could've been patching a weak point in Summer's quest for worthy opponents? It can't be a coincidence that higher beings prefer the definite article + adjective/noun naming scheme...
Rihaku
The Internet
But in that case, they aren't foibles not to be repeated, simply lessons inapplicable to your situation at all!
Interesting theory...
Just in case anyone was worried, 4bear might have had a happy ending:
Strange9
hdellaverson@gmail.com
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
One other note I'd like to make: the Ur-Mother calls the Forebear the 'cosmic janitor' -- an honorable job, it is sure, but also one that implies an employer. Perhaps this could be related to the earlier theory (from @vali , I think? Correct me if I'm wrong) that the Accursed tried to set up heroes to emerge from sufficiently awful worlds? Perhaps the Procession is a manifestation of an earlier attempt, or else a parallel evolution of another benevolent over-deity.
Rihaku
The Internet
The Ur-Mother has no need of the Berserkers' harvested libations! She is well beyond too powerful for any event occurring in the inferential context of the universes she administers to contribute meaningfully to her capabilities.
Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
I think many of us are missing one important thing. Who's to say that the Forebear hasn't been here all along? I think his soul is actually resting in the blade itself until it's time for him to finally be reborn again. That's the true source of the blades power. We're not obtaining power from some long faded imprints that were left on the sword. We're actually accessing the Forebear's very soul for strength.
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Every time he dies he goes into a world further along the procession.
It's a shame she wasn't powerful enough to derive no power from burning 'her' universes, at least Hunger only sacrificed selfhood to fuel his Final Strike! Also, using the present tense when referring to the Ur-Mother makes me suspicious and sad. Creatures such as her should have the good grace to die when killed; second chances are a hero's remit.
TwistedJester
Tired Lurker King
- Location
- Hell
Thank god Once and Future counted as part of the trio despite being a update after Tower and Tears.
SMH Hunger's got the Forebear's soul for power and can't even beat 1Ber.
As long as the help's to make that scene even more adorable? Happily.
Man, this is a great picture. I like the blue of the Blade's edge, it's a fitting way to capture Cut Through. The crown's cool too, Hunger's really rocking the shirtless sovereign look. His expression says 'don't blame me, I'm just wearing this for the stats, they practically forced it on me'. Even factoring in Skyveil, I fear for the state of the Elixir Kingdom's internet.
These are great Graces (not to mention the reaction), but the first thing that came to mind when I read Whispers of Yore? Jotarun ASMR. I suffered through this thought, so I'm sharing the pain.
Imagine avoiding the Shard of the Arcanist because of her Implement-consuming ways, then turning around and voting for Armament infanticide to sate the Affliction!
Hm, Vanreir had an issue with overpenetration too... is doing one's Uttermost perhaps a hereditary problem?!
This isn't true, that one particular destination just didn't have time after he killed its creator deity, so he patched it with entropy because he'd exhausted himself (sound like anyone we know?) killing her.
Of course! But one thing it doesn't do is distract us from the lore provided by Once and Future!
Take care, we'll try not to pick too many suicidal fights in your absence. Two days is one update, how hard could it be? Speaking of updates, the index has received one. Something something, please ping me, you guys know the drill.
Yeah it's here.
And some thoughts on curses here.
I also wrote up a thing about the thousand-faced hero, which I think is very relevant after reading about how the Forebear was a hero on an endless journey and who died and rose again a thousand times.
Lots to think about here.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
Fanwork#4773 Words of Reaction to the 4bear- I only now realize I should have stopped 329 words ago, that woulda been on point.
I'm trying to react to this one as I go, even though I've already failed and peeked ahead like five times. Because the Forebear Lore needs to be savored. It comes with the dubious benefit of allowing me to see how many of my cleverer, thinkpower-requiring observations were blatant to everyone else!
But this is a Forebear update, when is an hour not of reckoning for him?
More realistically, get new goals so that you don't stagnate, but don't set aside the progress you've made in the past. That's how you end up burning out, and not writing any reaction posts! Take care of your mental health so you can earn more Arete.
More fictionally realistically, there's lots of mind magic available! Bliss yourself out while simultaneously setting your motivation to maximum, psychophilosophical questions are for mortals. If the Interdict of Cognition or something like that tries to stop you, Cut Through it! Do the same for common sense!
Because he has depression. In fact, I diagnose him with conceptual depression, his sad is level 2 on the ISH. Have you tried cutting it off and not cutting it on again?
Seriously, many of your problems appear to be self inflicted- or maybe melting his mind is the only pleasure he still has left, we all know Hunger is a masochist, but even he can't compare to the glory of the Forebear. I didn't mean to kinkshame, as long as you don't drip your wax on me you do you.
The Forebear reincarnates eternally, and it looks like it isn't by choice. His Blade does offer a lot of reincarnation-y powers, and though I first figured they were channeling parts of his cursed(?) immortality, they could also be attempts to replace his unpleasant reincarnation with gentler versions. The Second Stage lore had Hunger musing that he might one day be able to bind himself as firmly to the sword as the Forebear was said to do- since the Forebear had been doing this before he'd mastered Cut, it was probably a later development. Or perhaps he just wanted to train more, Hunger got good use out of following your footsteps with Second Stage.
He could train beyond his body, at least. I'm not sure what "training beyond self" entails. Cut Through revealed that a sword is a tool of murder- and tools have wielders. A theme like "it doesn't matter who does the cutting" seems to contradict that, a bit, so that doesn't seem right. Maybe one day I will comprehend.
This still doesn't explain anything... except the importance of practice, I suppose. Practice makes perfect effects. Or was that Praxis?
And also the Ordinal Spiral, but that's lame, sword spiral is where it's at.
And what the fuck, I think he's actually in hell. No wonder he has so many immortality tricks, I think he was being literal about "every world is worse" since he's repeating it here. I wouldn't sharpen in response to that, I'd become the ultimate turtling coward. What happened to give him this curse?
*Unless the Geas was modeled after this, in which case fuck. Wild theory: the Forebear was one of those who cursed the Accursed.
...so how can we make some of these exploitation engines for our own powerups, huh? Preferably without the exploitation, but I'm flexible. /jk
So the big question here is why (the fuck)? For one thing, why would you make a torture dimension. For power, probably, because that's what it all comes down to in the end. Alternatively, this is a natural process, or made by a being of elemental evil or something. More important is what the position of the warden was intended for. Another amusing torture, or a shitty attempt to clean the place up, working against the grain of suckage? Or is everyone in this place bound to the Procession, winner gets tortured slightly less? Incentivizing everyone to be cruel to each other, naturally. Ugh.
If the Accursed wasn't our bro, I'd be panicking about how the Forebear's Tomb was in Hunger's past isekai... even now, I'm concerned. As dystopian it was, it wasn't nearly as bad as what the Forebear's dealing with, so if it ever was a Step he did an excellent job cleaning it up. At least until the creators of the Procession (the Hidden Ones maybe? gasp) tried their next takeover. Which would make Hunger- still a baby Cursebearer who shouldn't worry about such things, that's my decision.
He seems to agree with my gut reaction that those worlds can't be saved, but I'd have thought his Blade would be more merciful than the stomach of a Berserker, so maybe it's a good thing they charged him. So ungrateful, not thanking him for allowing them to live. Can't blame him for the ++++++++++etcHeartlessness after what he's been through, of course.
I want to react to the description, but can't think of anything to say except "nailed it." I do not want to meet a Berserker in a dark alley.
Wait, fuck, I just realized the Forebear is going to kill the Berserkers. Which is bad, because until we fix the manpower shortage we want them to keep eating hells. For the Greater Good! The Forebear clearly doesn't spare the lesser evils, though, but it's more likely he's just pissed they came at him.
There's never been any confirmation the other dozen times I compared things to curses, but the Berserkers might have a connection to the Decimation. Or not, "eating" isn't that complicated a concept.
His full(er) title includes "of Dynasties," but that doesn't add much. Sort of implied, really. More importantly, his sword is boring! Imagine how many Charisma +'s he passed up by not blinging it up, just because it's a tool of murder doesn't mean it can't be stylish. (Forebear disapproves -7)
The connection between "Cut" and "Quell" isn't obvious yet. Rank, boosted only when he draws the Blade? Not unlike a Stance. Wait, d'oh, this one would be Realm-Quelling Stance, AKA World-Defeating, which boosts Rank. There's no mystery to solve this time.
Back to now, there's another enemy, things aren't allowed to be that easy even for Hunger, there's no way you can oneshot the baddies in Hell. She's the Berserker's boss, the Bosszerker if you will. Another link in the food chain! We can rule out the "mindless hunger" theory for why you were attacked here, since she clearly isn't. Not weak, either, you can tell because she has particle effects. *taps head*
The Forebear retroactively dunks on the Berserkers, since he wasn't even aiming. But his blade is now unerring! Show Vanreir how gr∞grandpa does it.
Fucking 4bear memes are real, I can't believe I actually have to take it seriously now. "Four is death" isn't a sentiment I would expect the Forebear's powers to express, he seems more like a "One is death" man. I was reminded of Artful Thorn's limit, but he only actually hit her twice. There are four components of each 25-Arete Stance, and four Forms, but both of those seem like an artifact of the way Arete purchases are scaled, not anything to do with the Forebear. Five companions, but those are Undying. Is five life? No, life is also 4bear.
I cannot comprehend infinite time as a mortal, but as a non-mathematician I can't comprehend comprehending infinite time either. Feels hopeless. What's the difference between "infinitely later" and "never?" Presumably you can accelerate your perception of time on the ISH with enough +Wits or something, but I'd rather focus on what happens in the meantime. Assuming there was anything worthwhile here.
And in punishment for me making fun of him, he took away my infinite oppression engines. 70% Wisdom? I don't think so, this guy knows what's up and he knows perverse incentives when he sees them. It's a pity that the people couldn't be saved. It was probably possible, even if it was impossible for the Forebear and his Cutmania- if nothing else, could they be tossed into a Lotus-eater machine? Or would that "best world" thing interfere? Moot question, because the Forebear doesn't have any friends and he's doing his best, okay?
Should I be curious about how she's wreathed in the cosmos and any possible relation to Hunger's Mantle, or is using the stars as accessories just something all the cool kids do at a certain level? The Contests of Primacy for the Sky at any divine meetup must be exhausting, we should've taken Threefold so as not to have to deal with them.
And the lack of moral complexity is more evidence that the Procession was designed to create a being like the Forebear, who can have complete conviction. Meaning there's only so far we should emulate him, since our situations aren't the same- but that's obvious, the danger of Hunger getting confused about that is low.
I wholeheartedly approve of the Forebear's rejection of justice. The idea that the world would be a terrible place if we all got what we deserve is more laughable in Hell than on Earth, but it still resonates with me. No need for justice, just ice them.
But setting aside how ridiculous the Ur-Mother is, I think I get it. "Evil is necessary as a contrast for good to be meaningful" is something I've heard before in the real world, even if I vehemently disagree. But this isn't a real world, this is a Rihaku quest. And I'm not joking when I say that the deepest lore of a Rihaku quest is that it's a quest. Evil isn't needed for good, but antagonists are helpful in a story. And according to her, the Forebear is making the story worse by cutting up the hells that could be used by other protagonists. Because good isn't good, drama is good.
I mean, in universe that's clearly reprehensible, but I love what (I've interpreted that) Rihaku is doing.
Going back to Nameless Yong... there might not be consequences? The lack of consequences would be the punishment, in this view. That makes no sense, please hold while I untwist my mind from the damage trying to comprehend an overgod inflicted.
Nebulae aside, the Ur-Mother doesn't seem very bright. This conversation is probably translated down the ISH for my convenience, but still. I guess that's what happens when you only encounter cartoonishly evil vile villains, huh? She's like all the rest, even if she has a crippling lack of self-awareness to present herself this way. In the Forebear's view, anyway, he is just done. I feel like, since she's so willing and eager to talk, there's value in keeping her alive, but the only reason he's listening is because he can't turn off his ears anyway. Cut.
(Fake Edit: And holy shit, never put me in Hell, the next few sentences prove how screwed I'd be.
)
Ur-Mother: Forebear, I've come to bargain. (How many times can I copy and paste this to inflate the word count before Rihaku stops giving me Arete? : p)
I'd noticed the functional similarity between ADS and Praxis pre-combat advancements, and the Forebear Cut Through to ADS, but it's not counted as a Praxis technique. Because the Forebear's Cut-magic overlaps with Praxis, but there are parts of it that aren't? But anyway, I'm even more hype about ADS than I already was, and if you didn't notice from my two attempts in a row to gather support for ADS as a write-in, I was already super hype for it. I feel vindicated about saying "I've overlooked a bunch of things, I'm sure, but that's fine because ADS defeats them too!" or however I worded it, because I hadn't even considered attacks from the future! Should I be so smug about my ignorance? Yes, because ADS defeats even not being smug, don't ruin this for me. The Forebear flashbought ADS to get out of a jam, it's an honor to follow in his footsteps.
No surprise if the Ruin the Forebear wields is stronger than Hunger's, but other than the Giant Enemy Crab I don't think we've seen Ruin effects as flashy as the description here suggests. Maybe the Forebear refined it over time and we're benefiting from that practice?
We knew the Stances were "internal energy manipulation," but now we know it's essence. Super cool- it makes me want to use the stances as a path to the broader field of essence manipulation, but since as far as Hunger is concerned stances are the pinnacle of the field and they require essence "investiture," it's not the most productive use of time. Even if it would be awesome.
Taken at face value, the Forebear's line about the cut being more than an edge is asinine. No duh, everyone knows you should put your body's weight behind a punch. But he has a lightsaber, so it's okay that he thought it'd be different for him. Especially because he only now received +++++Int and Wis, it's hard to avoid becoming well balanced after getting + to all stats no matter how much of a Cut maniac you are. I hope it helps with his happiness, or at least his contentedness if that's impossible.
She's just the worst. Or the 29845y235yioth worst, however far up she is from Uttermost Hell.
And let me check again- cool. +2 Martial Rank, when the Forebear is presumably in the teens already as a universe creator- the Ur-Mother seemed not too far above him before, so she's simply dead now. As the Forebear said, but there's mechanical basis for his certainty!
At the risk of pareidolia, I'll try to connect this to Hunger. The patchwork realm does seem to be a reasonable description of the Voyaging Realm, and "trending towards destruction" is, uh, congruent with our experiences therein. But that's our fault as much as anything. And if the Forebear is the King of Entropy, is Hunger the King of Winter that comes after? I like it, as long as we can work towards spring, in that metaphor.
Now, let me focus on one line: Time to rest. You see that, Hunger? Even the Forebear took a break now and then, despite the dire consequences of slacking. Not that it's your fault the voters are egging you on.
I'm trying to react to this one as I go, even though I've already failed and peeked ahead like five times. Because the Forebear Lore needs to be savored. It comes with the dubious benefit of allowing me to see how many of my cleverer, thinkpower-requiring observations were blatant to everyone else!
Hey now, we still have around 40 Hours of Reckoning before the clock runs out! Practically an eternity. Unless it's the hour for our enemies to reckon with us, which is too long because I prefer it when they die sooner. Lots of damage can happen in an hour, I reckon.
But this is a Forebear update, when is an hour not of reckoning for him?
It's easy to be content, if you're lazy like I am! The Forebear might consider that excessively self-satisfied, but he should decide that it isn't excessive. Whenever you have a problem, define it away, that's how I solve everything. Much less gruesome than cutting.
More realistically, get new goals so that you don't stagnate, but don't set aside the progress you've made in the past. That's how you end up burning out, and not writing any reaction posts! Take care of your mental health so you can earn more Arete.
More fictionally realistically, there's lots of mind magic available! Bliss yourself out while simultaneously setting your motivation to maximum, psychophilosophical questions are for mortals. If the Interdict of Cognition or something like that tries to stop you, Cut Through it! Do the same for common sense!
So maybe it isn't just that the Forebear zooms through worlds in a week, his existence could just be so miserable that every day is a Monday for him! A cruel burden worthy of the Accursed himself. The other Doom of Lunacy, eternal Moon-day?
It's awesome to read about the Forebear, but less so to be him. I recommend magical therapy again, or possibly weed. Surely it can't actually be nothing but cruelty? I'll have to read on to see. But smoking a blunt would be tarrying. That doesn't seem like the worst sin, what could be responsible for this insane drive? The "treadmill of worlds" is another mark in the "reasons 4bear is a Cursebearer" tally (as well as Proc[gr]ession), but even they can get vacations. Don't tell me that the wondrous Voyaging Realm is a metaphorical as well as a literal amusement park, and every task is worse from here? I mean, I expect that to be the case as far as power levels go, but we already dismantled a civilization powered by gigatorture, I don't want to be sent to actual hell. Or, well, that wouldn't be the worst since we'd overthrow that too, and try to turn it into heaven. As the Forebear would, but he can't stop to enjoy it.
Because he has depression. In fact, I diagnose him with conceptual depression, his sad is level 2 on the ISH. Have you tried cutting it off and not cutting it on again?
Uh. Maybe the reason you're sad is because you do things like this? Cutting is cool, but have you tried keeping the skin on your fingers? And don't drip your soul on my cosmos, that shit is nasty. Personal space please.
Seriously, many of your problems appear to be self inflicted- or maybe melting his mind is the only pleasure he still has left, we all know Hunger is a masochist, but even he can't compare to the glory of the Forebear. I didn't mean to kinkshame, as long as you don't drip your wax on me you do you.
The Forebear reincarnates eternally, and it looks like it isn't by choice. His Blade does offer a lot of reincarnation-y powers, and though I first figured they were channeling parts of his cursed(?) immortality, they could also be attempts to replace his unpleasant reincarnation with gentler versions. The Second Stage lore had Hunger musing that he might one day be able to bind himself as firmly to the sword as the Forebear was said to do- since the Forebear had been doing this before he'd mastered Cut, it was probably a later development. Or perhaps he just wanted to train more, Hunger got good use out of following your footsteps with Second Stage.
He could train beyond his body, at least. I'm not sure what "training beyond self" entails. Cut Through revealed that a sword is a tool of murder- and tools have wielders. A theme like "it doesn't matter who does the cutting" seems to contradict that, a bit, so that doesn't seem right. Maybe one day I will comprehend.
Before you cut the things that can't be cut, you cut the things that can. It's obvious, but I hadn't put much thought into the Forebear making easy cuts. Even I can do that much! Feels good to have something in common with such a legend.
This still doesn't explain anything... except the importance of practice, I suppose. Practice makes perfect effects. Or was that Praxis?
Sounds like Praxis to me. And it's good that he has a solution! Spoiler alert, it's cut. Spiral, what does that remind me of... oh yeah, the Cold Light of Vengeance. It was never described as a spiral, but endless expansion of cutting fits. As does the world destruction. And the cold vengeance. That was definitely a Forebear technique.
And also the Ordinal Spiral, but that's lame, sword spiral is where it's at.
Dully? Dully? Not in my Forebear, throw that personality against the whetstone this instant and grind it away. No time to reminisce, you need more edge. But really, it's good to see even the smallest smile on this guy. Maybe one day he'll be able to cut a permanent smile on his face. Uh, metaphorically. We don't need a Joker-Forebear hybrid.
And what the fuck, I think he's actually in hell. No wonder he has so many immortality tricks, I think he was being literal about "every world is worse" since he's repeating it here. I wouldn't sharpen in response to that, I'd become the ultimate turtling coward. What happened to give him this curse?
Aha, the Procession is its own thing- thank goodness Hunger doesn't have to worry about it*! Feels like some strange ritual, the sharpening the Forebear is experiencing might be intentional. Can't have the guardian of hell be weak- you'd think he could use a little backup, though, or a weekend, but those would get in the way of cut. And how is this staircase created? Bad and naughty realities get sent to the world wiggler to atone for their crimes, that must be it.
*Unless the Geas was modeled after this, in which case fuck. Wild theory: the Forebear was one of those who cursed the Accursed.
This is a shitty pyramid scheme and I want out. Cut the whole thing down and start over. You think the Lord of Stalks is bad, but he's got nothing on this fractal cannibalistic oppression nonsense, with born and bred slaves at the bottom. And I still feel bad for the evil gods, too, but only a little because fuck em. "Berserker" is a subdued name for god-eaters, but they aren't special since there's a horizon of them. I guess you'd need at least this much to contest even the babby 1,000th world Forebear? And he's not even a percent of a percent of a percent done with his cutting yet. We have a long way to go.
...so how can we make some of these exploitation engines for our own powerups, huh? Preferably without the exploitation, but I'm flexible. /jk
So "Hell" is no longer a theory, I'll capitalize it now. The Forebear is actually in Hell. Or at least, not too far above it. And the reason he can't slow down to avoid suffering is because he'll only suffer more by being dropped to turbohell, because the Procession is evil. And worse, he can't slow down his fighting to train when his enemies are too low level, because he might skip a step, which would be worse than not being able to train. Somebody give this man the Hunger Ring. Or just smash this horrible place altogether, Accursed please save this man, if he doesn't Cut himself out first. Or Cut down to the bottom and kill Forebearverse Satan- but somehow I get the sinking feeling he didn't succeed. Probably the fact that we have his sword now, that might be it.
So the big question here is why (the fuck)? For one thing, why would you make a torture dimension. For power, probably, because that's what it all comes down to in the end. Alternatively, this is a natural process, or made by a being of elemental evil or something. More important is what the position of the warden was intended for. Another amusing torture, or a shitty attempt to clean the place up, working against the grain of suckage? Or is everyone in this place bound to the Procession, winner gets tortured slightly less? Incentivizing everyone to be cruel to each other, naturally. Ugh.
If the Accursed wasn't our bro, I'd be panicking about how the Forebear's Tomb was in Hunger's past isekai... even now, I'm concerned. As dystopian it was, it wasn't nearly as bad as what the Forebear's dealing with, so if it ever was a Step he did an excellent job cleaning it up. At least until the creators of the Procession (the Hidden Ones maybe? gasp) tried their next takeover. Which would make Hunger- still a baby Cursebearer who shouldn't worry about such things, that's my decision.
You've heard of the crazy-hot matrix, how about the might-depravity matrix? Spent a few seconds wondering if this implied a maximum cruelty ceiling, but then I realized it was a property of the travel mechanism rather than the worlds. Based on nothing, I predict that the bottom level is completely powerless but absolutely depraved. That sounds awfully poetic, right?
The reason he had time to monologue is because he's just that much stronger than these guys. I should take back what I said about training earlier. He just needs to be able to multitask, as long as he can conquer these worlds it should still be alright. The only issue with that is that the Forebear isn't actually a genius (by now he would be, but relatively speaking), he put all his chargen points into Willpower. So all there's left to do is Cut.
He seems to agree with my gut reaction that those worlds can't be saved, but I'd have thought his Blade would be more merciful than the stomach of a Berserker, so maybe it's a good thing they charged him. So ungrateful, not thanking him for allowing them to live. Can't blame him for the ++++++++++etcHeartlessness after what he's been through, of course.
Huh, I guess there is a cruelty ceiling, that's a relief. A disgustingly high one, which is itself evil, but beggars can't be choosers. It's not perfect, clearly, otherwise there wouldn't be further steps down. Guess evil can go Even Further Beyond as well.
I want to react to the description, but can't think of anything to say except "nailed it." I do not want to meet a Berserker in a dark alley.
Wait, fuck, I just realized the Forebear is going to kill the Berserkers. Which is bad, because until we fix the manpower shortage we want them to keep eating hells. For the Greater Good! The Forebear clearly doesn't spare the lesser evils, though, but it's more likely he's just pissed they came at him.
There's never been any confirmation the other dozen times I compared things to curses, but the Berserkers might have a connection to the Decimation. Or not, "eating" isn't that complicated a concept.
The Berserkers were established to be weaker than the Forebear, but I expected more of a fight than a single horizon cut. The food chain is brutal. I no longer feel bad for the gods, since they were partying until they died. With indescribable god LSD.
His full(er) title includes "of Dynasties," but that doesn't add much. Sort of implied, really. More importantly, his sword is boring! Imagine how many Charisma +'s he passed up by not blinging it up, just because it's a tool of murder doesn't mean it can't be stylish. (Forebear disapproves -7)
The connection between "Cut" and "Quell" isn't obvious yet. Rank, boosted only when he draws the Blade? Not unlike a Stance. Wait, d'oh, this one would be Realm-Quelling Stance, AKA World-Defeating, which boosts Rank. There's no mystery to solve this time.
Uh oh, implications. My boy Nameless might be in some trouble. I recall making a joke last week along the lines of "sell your name for power, it's free real estate." I was right, it seems, but the free real estate is Hell. Fucking Summer, this was not in the terms and conditions. I knew it was bad juju to sell your name, but there never appeared to be any consequences. The name might not be why the Forebear's here, but it is at least something to regret.
Back to now, there's another enemy, things aren't allowed to be that easy even for Hunger, there's no way you can oneshot the baddies in Hell. She's the Berserker's boss, the Bosszerker if you will. Another link in the food chain! We can rule out the "mindless hunger" theory for why you were attacked here, since she clearly isn't. Not weak, either, you can tell because she has particle effects. *taps head*
What a Chad, yeet that thot, help I'm trapped in 20xx. He's been thinking about the Procession this whole time, so Nameless is safe (from this exact consequence). What's up with the sides of his head, is his mind about to melt out of his skull again? I've never experienced anticipatory temple headaches before, he should see a doctor demon about that.
She's ominously leading up to an "and I control you muahahaha," it looks like. Wouldn't this be a good reason to sacrifice your name? It could be that having a name is like having a lock, with others knowing it being the key. Without one, people (Bosszerker people anyway) can just waltz in? Also, you weaken your essence and therefore your Form of Rage.
The Forebear retroactively dunks on the Berserkers, since he wasn't even aiming. But his blade is now unerring! Show Vanreir how gr∞grandpa does it.
So that's what the sensation on the side of his head was, he cut his hearing because her yammering was not conducive to cutting through. He didn't hear any of the lore I've been geeking about, because he is more meme than man. It's kind of a shame, because even if she wasn't going to tell him the meaning, it would be a comfort for many to know there was one. Because, luckily, it seems like the Forebear was put here to clean this place up, not just to suffer.
Fucking 4bear memes are real, I can't believe I actually have to take it seriously now. "Four is death" isn't a sentiment I would expect the Forebear's powers to express, he seems more like a "One is death" man. I was reminded of Artful Thorn's limit, but he only actually hit her twice. There are four components of each 25-Arete Stance, and four Forms, but both of those seem like an artifact of the way Arete purchases are scaled, not anything to do with the Forebear. Five companions, but those are Undying. Is five life? No, life is also 4bear.
I cannot comprehend infinite time as a mortal, but as a non-mathematician I can't comprehend comprehending infinite time either. Feels hopeless. What's the difference between "infinitely later" and "never?" Presumably you can accelerate your perception of time on the ISH with enough +Wits or something, but I'd rather focus on what happens in the meantime. Assuming there was anything worthwhile here.
You know, I figured there'd be a "slow grinding process" involved in the "being the Forebear" business where he sticks his sword in, but I was thinking it would be sex. The Forebear doesn't even fuck, how depressing to not even have that to comfort him. The "of Dynasties" is more meaningful than I assumed, since it seems more like an "Era" or a "Universe" now. Also a euphemism meaning he destroyed a whole realm, damn. So it's possible that the Forebear is the creator of the Human Sphere/Voyaging Realm and the Tyrant's universe- no wonder his sword can subdue these callow realms. And we're holding it. Now, despite what you might expect, it would actually be a lie to say I don't want to make Realms yet, because Pillars- there could be awesome synergies there. Makes the sword as brush metaphors more interesting, too.
And in punishment for me making fun of him, he took away my infinite oppression engines. 70% Wisdom? I don't think so, this guy knows what's up and he knows perverse incentives when he sees them. It's a pity that the people couldn't be saved. It was probably possible, even if it was impossible for the Forebear and his Cutmania- if nothing else, could they be tossed into a Lotus-eater machine? Or would that "best world" thing interfere? Moot question, because the Forebear doesn't have any friends and he's doing his best, okay?
The reason I made that "particle effect" joke earlier is because her spacetime twistiness seemed a bit underwhelming on this level, and here's why. The Forebear wasn't the only one holding back! And if one cut was far too easy, four isn't much better. No, you have to time travel even to reach the actual bossfight when you're in the Procession.
Should I be curious about how she's wreathed in the cosmos and any possible relation to Hunger's Mantle, or is using the stars as accessories just something all the cool kids do at a certain level? The Contests of Primacy for the Sky at any divine meetup must be exhausting, we should've taken Threefold so as not to have to deal with them.
You can't escape exposition by turning off your ears this time, but glibness is still as effective as ever! The Ur-Mother self-owned by calling herself a vile villain, I'm pretty sure. And both she and the Forebear are 100% correct to call it convenient, imagine all the moral debates we'd be able to skip if murder was always the answer! But then again, the Forebear might have been able to escape by now with the Arete hauled out from the salt mines.
And the lack of moral complexity is more evidence that the Procession was designed to create a being like the Forebear, who can have complete conviction. Meaning there's only so far we should emulate him, since our situations aren't the same- but that's obvious, the danger of Hunger getting confused about that is low.
I wholeheartedly approve of the Forebear's rejection of justice. The idea that the world would be a terrible place if we all got what we deserve is more laughable in Hell than on Earth, but it still resonates with me. No need for justice, just ice them.
Is... is she a tsundere? I ask because there's an awful lot of flattery in her supervillain rant. Noooo, don't you dare touch me with your filthy, savage blade- dammit, now I'm imagining a porn parody of this. I blame Rihaku.
But setting aside how ridiculous the Ur-Mother is, I think I get it. "Evil is necessary as a contrast for good to be meaningful" is something I've heard before in the real world, even if I vehemently disagree. But this isn't a real world, this is a Rihaku quest. And I'm not joking when I say that the deepest lore of a Rihaku quest is that it's a quest. Evil isn't needed for good, but antagonists are helpful in a story. And according to her, the Forebear is making the story worse by cutting up the hells that could be used by other protagonists. Because good isn't good, drama is good.
I mean, in universe that's clearly reprehensible, but I love what (I've interpreted that) Rihaku is doing.
Going back to Nameless Yong... there might not be consequences? The lack of consequences would be the punishment, in this view. That makes no sense, please hold while I untwist my mind from the damage trying to comprehend an overgod inflicted.
She'll... ruin him? She's saying that to the For- wait, he's young still. And she did have her Berserkers, which are ruinlike? Are we seeing the Forebear's origin story? Well, of course we are, but I didn't think it'd be that part of it.
Nebulae aside, the Ur-Mother doesn't seem very bright. This conversation is probably translated down the ISH for my convenience, but still. I guess that's what happens when you only encounter cartoonishly evil vile villains, huh? She's like all the rest, even if she has a crippling lack of self-awareness to present herself this way. In the Forebear's view, anyway, he is just done. I feel like, since she's so willing and eager to talk, there's value in keeping her alive, but the only reason he's listening is because he can't turn off his ears anyway. Cut.
(Fake Edit: And holy shit, never put me in Hell, the next few sentences prove how screwed I'd be.
)Oh. So my feeling of "God, does she ever shut up?" was her superpower. And "can we please talk this out?" is a nonstarter when one person has talky god powers and the other one doesn't, so cut is the correct answer as it always is in Hell. I'm sorry for ever doubting you, Mr. Forebear. I don't think that's how talking it out works, but it is if she says it is. Yikes, no wonder she's so unselfaware, nobody is allowed to disagree with her. Feeling better about Skyveil, even if I doubt Hunger'd end up anywhere near this bad without it.
Ur-Mother: Forebear, I've come to bargain. (How many times can I copy and paste this to inflate the word count before Rihaku stops giving me Arete? : p)
Forebear Quest had a massive omakestorm and snap-bought All-Defeating Stance. Unfortunately, this version of the Forebear doesn't have any questers, so he goes 28 Arete into debt for it. Or so I interpreted the recovery sleep, though that could be an exasperated hyperbole, especially since he might get kicked down into zettahell if he keeps failing Procession Geas tasks by sleeping. The disrespect is real.
I'd noticed the functional similarity between ADS and Praxis pre-combat advancements, and the Forebear Cut Through to ADS, but it's not counted as a Praxis technique. Because the Forebear's Cut-magic overlaps with Praxis, but there are parts of it that aren't? But anyway, I'm even more hype about ADS than I already was, and if you didn't notice from my two attempts in a row to gather support for ADS as a write-in, I was already super hype for it. I feel vindicated about saying "I've overlooked a bunch of things, I'm sure, but that's fine because ADS defeats them too!" or however I worded it, because I hadn't even considered attacks from the future! Should I be so smug about my ignorance? Yes, because ADS defeats even not being smug, don't ruin this for me. The Forebear flashbought ADS to get out of a jam, it's an honor to follow in his footsteps.
So he only now became Ruinman, theory confirmed. Wait a minute, though, if ADS and Ruin came at the same time, he never had any of the lesser Defeating Stances. How sad, to never know the glory of Guile-Defeating Stance. Unless they just didn't include the Ruin components... but that's basically all of Magic-Defeating Stance. Strange that there'd even be components, if this is how it was formed, but if he Cut Through to a parallel reality (or whatever nonsense) where he had developed an answer, it would still bear the marks of its making.
No surprise if the Ruin the Forebear wields is stronger than Hunger's, but other than the Giant Enemy Crab I don't think we've seen Ruin effects as flashy as the description here suggests. Maybe the Forebear refined it over time and we're benefiting from that practice?
We knew the Stances were "internal energy manipulation," but now we know it's essence. Super cool- it makes me want to use the stances as a path to the broader field of essence manipulation, but since as far as Hunger is concerned stances are the pinnacle of the field and they require essence "investiture," it's not the most productive use of time. Even if it would be awesome.
Taken at face value, the Forebear's line about the cut being more than an edge is asinine. No duh, everyone knows you should put your body's weight behind a punch. But he has a lightsaber, so it's okay that he thought it'd be different for him. Especially because he only now received +++++Int and Wis, it's hard to avoid becoming well balanced after getting + to all stats no matter how much of a Cut maniac you are. I hope it helps with his happiness, or at least his contentedness if that's impossible.
I shouldn't be surprised after the quadrillion slaves horror, but I still have to stop for a moment to take this in. Protip: if you want to know who the bad guy is in a conflict between the person who sacrifices their future energy for a powerup and the one who burns "numberless innocents," it's the latter. She doesn't even have the decency to win, so the Forebear's right that it's pointless.
She's just the worst. Or the 29845y235yioth worst, however far up she is from Uttermost Hell.
Bruh. Let me scroll up... yup. I had assumed that when the Forebear cut through time, it was with his sword, but it was never explicitly said that he picked it up. No wonder the Ur-Mother was secure enough in her victory for that level of monologue, swordboy had no sword. Arrogant on his part, too, to challenge her without it, but (wait, what's publicly available... good) it's not that easy to unmake the choice to stick the sword in the stone, until the Hour of Reckoning. Which is now, I knew that line had something to do with something.
And let me check again- cool. +2 Martial Rank, when the Forebear is presumably in the teens already as a universe creator- the Ur-Mother seemed not too far above him before, so she's simply dead now. As the Forebear said, but there's mechanical basis for his certainty!So entropy is the Forebear's fault, thanks Obama. I can't even blame the Ur-Mother exactly... if the best you can hope for is spots of brightness, it might've been better to abort the universe. There are others, after all. But he has a task, which requires this universe exist. Thinking about it, if he has to visit later, that means the universe he created is likely even worse than this one. What the heck, man, that's a dick move. At least, as the Once and Future King, he's taking responsibility.
At the risk of pareidolia, I'll try to connect this to Hunger. The patchwork realm does seem to be a reasonable description of the Voyaging Realm, and "trending towards destruction" is, uh, congruent with our experiences therein. But that's our fault as much as anything. And if the Forebear is the King of Entropy, is Hunger the King of Winter that comes after? I like it, as long as we can work towards spring, in that metaphor.
Now, let me focus on one line: Time to rest. You see that, Hunger? Even the Forebear took a break now and then, despite the dire consequences of slacking. Not that it's your fault the voters are egging you on.
There are other methods of motivation besides endless descent into hell, you know. I suggested magic and drugs earlier, but aside from the extremes there are options. Like the satisfaction of a job well done. It doesn't always work, but it has the benefit of not being Hell, which is an attractive trait in a motivation. I'm glad he didn't think of it in those terms, because that's not a hundredth as metal as repudiating all wisdom is. How did that line from Bleach quest go again? Ah, there it is.
Same energy.
Things that Hunger and the Forebear share:
1: Both sacrificed their names
2: Both started out in a world of wonder.
3: Both are adept at using the tools of their enemies.
Hunger's skill at abduction is pretty well established at this point.
4: Both deal with the concept of imprisonment.
5: Both have a non-singular existence.
Hunger contains multitudes
The Forebear has lived a thousand lives.
6: Both are upper-case 'H' Heroes.
I've previously speculated that the Accursed changed reality to create Heroes, see my previous post for more info on that and how it applies to Hunger and Jotarun.
It's not stated that the Forebear is a Hero, but he's doing heroic things and his life has some deeper signifigence in the cosmic sense.
7: They seem to be related
...
Here is Rihaku on Hunger meeting the Forebear
Originally I thought Rihaku meant they were opposites. But perhaps the reason the Forebear and Hunger can never meet is because they're the same person.
1: Both sacrificed their names
2: Both started out in a world of wonder.
3: Both are adept at using the tools of their enemies.
Hunger's skill at abduction is pretty well established at this point.
4: Both deal with the concept of imprisonment.
5: Both have a non-singular existence.
Hunger contains multitudes
The Forebear has lived a thousand lives.
6: Both are upper-case 'H' Heroes.
I've previously speculated that the Accursed changed reality to create Heroes, see my previous post for more info on that and how it applies to Hunger and Jotarun.
It's not stated that the Forebear is a Hero, but he's doing heroic things and his life has some deeper signifigence in the cosmic sense.
7: They seem to be related
...
Here is Rihaku on Hunger meeting the Forebear
Originally I thought Rihaku meant they were opposites. But perhaps the reason the Forebear and Hunger can never meet is because they're the same person.
Another out of there thing could be that Hunger was meant to be the Forebear's successor as in the Forebear finally escaped the procession and there needed to be a replacement.
It's just the Accursed was able to intercede and make a deal with Hunger before he could die the first time and begin traveling the Procession of Worlds.
It's just the Accursed was able to intercede and make a deal with Hunger before he could die the first time and begin traveling the Procession of Worlds.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
I like this, because that's much more Vengeance-worthy than the "my friend died in a fall so now I'll kill gravity" joke the thread was tossing around.
- Location
- Pindorama
Wow, if Hunger really was the Forebear, the fact the Combat-class option was called Freedom is cast in a completely different light, huh?
Hunger learned that the Forebearer needed some friends who are cool to make his endless task less shitty.
We need to pick up companions of the king for mental health if nothing else. Gotta take something that matters to us along for the ride.
We need to pick up companions of the king for mental health if nothing else. Gotta take something that matters to us along for the ride.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
We do know that there are unlock requirements that we can replicate, eventually.
We do not know what those unlock requirements are, yet. Undying Vanguard is one of them.
Would it be a total abuse of power to add that option to the end of the Color-preserving vote options in the next update?
[x. ] Kill the fish
[x. ] Panoply the fish
[x. ] Undying Vanguard
Now, this may be rather tenuous, but I remembered seeing something named capital P procession once before in EFB, having looked back, it seems that it was the Bleak Raven's special Dao, called the Bleak Procession, which was said to be inspired by the Tomb of the Netherine we avoided, said to contain the tombs or ruins of previous Ages if I remember right.