“Human Resources” Shouldn’t Be This Literal: A PMMM/ProjectMoon Quest

[Riku_Furude]

Isn't encouraging sayaka literally will make her act more like a moron? Like in canon fighting Witches after Witches alone until eventually she got trapped in grief spiral and witch-out?. And this is will be worsen by the fact that her magic is more support oriented in her than in canon

 

[Kalibrius]

At this point Question, I think the boss understands what we are trying to get across, who knows mayhaps they can use the wall of text in the chapter if the write in team wins instead of th encourage team
Which honestly we shouldn't feed her hero complex, all that will do is set off dominos we don't want going off and we'll have to deal with oktavia
Defaulting is useful but some things require precision handling

 

[Catgc]

[X] Let the kids talk it out. But mention that Homura meant well. She just has the social skills of a hedgehog.

Edit: changed my vote

 

[questioningmeme]

Any option other than "All of the above" will be detrimental for the girl.

The wall of text write-in isn't needed, all that is needed is for Sayaka to remember the things we taught Abraham.

I hope she will listen to us since we are an adult magical girl from her pov. And we didn't voice it in a manner similar to Homura's hedgehog style.

 

[Kalibrius]

At this point yes the speech isn't needed
But you can't say it isn't worthless either, afterall we all worked on it
And shows we care

 

[questioningmeme]

Duh. Of course, we do. X doesn't want to experience what it feels like to stand in Ayin's shoes again and she doesn't plan to.

Nor does she wants to know the sheer despair Carmen felt that led to her believing that death is worth it. She has no plans to do that shit either.

Tiphereth, Daniel, and Kali were all basically kids in the eyes of Ayin and Carmen in a way. If we didn't learn from their mistakes after 10,000 years, how are we supposed to help Homura with her...measly 12 years long quest?

 

[Kalibrius]

.....
I think it was longer than 12 years
Probably smaller than X loops overall but that's still a long time by any standard and need I say that 'measly' was enough to result in kreimhild gretchen, Madokami, Homura literally becoming a devil in her own brand of meltdown?
Yeah smaller in comparison
But enough to basically give white night a proper fight
That's saying something

 

[questioningmeme]

.....
I think it was longer than 12 years
Probably smaller than X loops overall but that's still a long time by any standard and need I say that 'measly' was enough to result in kreimhild gretchen, Madokami, Homura literally becoming a devil in her own brand of meltdown?
Yeah smaller in comparison
But enough to basically give white night a proper fight
That's saying something

Click to shrink...

Nope.

It was indeed 12 years. At a Nitro+ Q&A Panel it was revealed that Homura went through almost 100 timelines. Q: How many timelines did Homura go through? A: Approaching 100.

(100 x 46 days)/365 = 12.6 years.

46 days is the time it takes for Walpurgis to appear from the moment she wakes up at her hospital.

 

[Kalibrius]

.....
So we're both correct
It is 12 years 6 months and a half/2 thirds of a month
Still a dangerous situation if mishandled

 

[Toki_kung]

[X] Write-In. "Yes, we did. Most of the time, it will be a thankless deed. You'd be lucky if you even have someone to know about it. However, it's all worth it I feel, to the point where, in the end, it doesn't matter if everyone hates you for it. Ms. Akemi probably has done deeds we have no idea about too. People she failed to save. It is a feeling I know well. You can't save everyone in this business kid. But you should strive to protect whatever you have left, rather than languish in guilt. More importantly. The people around you can help you accomplish great things. Today is an excellent lesson for you. Everyone here gathered together to defeat this great threat they wouldn't have been able to deal with on their own. It reminds me of my old crew. They were all great people, and although we faced many moments where they broke down to their own emotions, fear, and anger, eventually, together, we managed to break through our problems and accomplished our duty. Remember that we did all of this. Today wouldn't have been possible had we not been together. You healed people, Mami, Homura, me, and Madoka, we all gave our efforts together and supported each other through this. While it may not seems like it. Miss Akemi was attempting to give you advice, the correct advice, on the path you must take as a hero. She just doesn't know how to interact with people, maybe it's the fear of growing attached, maybe she has lost people in the past, her loved ones, her friends, maybe even a significant other. Maybe you are similar to someone she once knew even. After all, she did go out of her way for you didn't she?"

 

[Kalibrius]

Looks like someone disagrees with only using the approach
The write in speech is being upheld

Is it wrong I am finding humor in this?

 

[Nottheunmaker]

I refuse to vote for that wall of text monster, and even the alternative is on the wordy side. Still, my time is limited.

[X] Write-In. Stress the importance of heroic deeds not being recognized, that the true reward is [The Expectation of the Meaning of Existence]. The power of cooperation, of [Those who are Faithful and Trustworthy]. And the necessity to control one wrath and focus on [The Courage to Protect]. And that, Homura isn't too different from ourselves as a veteran who had become jaded from the harsh reality.

 

[questioningmeme]

It shouldn't even be compared to X's loops.

X reverted 10,000 years. However, it's never a total rewind of 50 days.

How many times did X go mad? How many times did X see horrors so disgusting it blows one's mind? CENSORED wasn't always CENSORED.

One wonders whether memory erasure is a blessing or a curse then. Because the despair will be fresh for every single rewind.

(10000x365)/50 = 73000 rewinds.

Assuming that X doesn't make it to day 50 before rewinding and multiplying that number by two, X could've rewinded up to 146000 times. Could be more could be shorter, but does it even matters?

That's the sheer number of the absurdity that is the Germination of the Seed of light. A number between 73000-146000.

And above all else...Angela had to suffer through that shit at 100x speed with perfect memory. She really isn't the favorite child.

The wall of text is a bit too much. However, I tried to shorten all the points at best I can without losing their importance.

 

[Kalibrius]

Indeed
A Poor child she is indeed
Can't even blame her behavior in the sequel, not an excuse but something like that will make one an unsound mind

 

[Alcor]

I think that actually turned out about as well as it could have. I think Mami's hostility to Homura has largely been resolved, Sayaka both got help and seems to have been tempered by the reality somewhat, and Madoka is... still Madoka. And I do think Sayaka's opinion of Homura has moved more in the right direction, it's just that's not the kind of thing we can solve in an afternoon - she agreed with Homura over Madoka's safety/involvement and that's a start at least.

As for the vote, encourage and pessimism both strike me as going too far and could be bad for Sayaka in the long run. Pessimism more so, I feel, because while Sayaka has a hero complex this was also a difficult experience for her so I feel like this isn't quite the right time to go negative. I don't have any particular issues with the write-in but I'll throw this out there:

[X] Leave it to the kids to talk about these things

I actually don't think this is a terrible idea. I think Mami and Madoka have a chance at getting through to Sayaka a bit. Mami clearly saw and empathized with Homura when Sayaka tried to chew her out for being cold because she joined us in speaking up before Homura answered over us. Mami is a veteran MG and surely can understand how that can wear on someone. I think we can step back and let them discuss this for now. I don't know if we want to be super overbearing about things. We can talk these kind of things out with Sayaka, Mami, etc. especially if we see red flags but I want to trust that if we can also provide them some space to work things out that they can.

 

[questioningmeme]

Oh no, her behavior is on her and her alone. The blame lies with her.

I understand why she would do what she did. I feel immense guilt on the behalf of Ayin for her. But I won't let her suffering be an excuse for the death of thousands, maybe even millions from the mess that happened after.

As for letting the kids talk it out...I don't support it for one simple reason.

They all have problems. Mami is still holding onto the witch bomb, even if we did test Lobotomy on her. She won't be hard enough against Sayaka. More importantly, the baggage she carries with her reputation as a "Senior Magical Girl", won't allow her the correct advice.

Madoka simply doesn't get understand yet, and from Sayaka's pov, that means her opinion is irrelevant.

Homura...the whole problem came from her inability to talk so that doesn't even matter.

We did this before. Ayin did this before. Ignoring someone until it was too late. Not just once...but many many times. Besides.

With Nothing There lurking around, I would rather talk her down now and not have to face her again as a piece of NT's shell.

That's a meltdown and a half right there for our "Totally Normal" X.

 

[Kalibrius]

Mever said it was an excuse only understandable
A rabid dog despite tragedy of it is still a rabid dog
In this case it's a rabid pitcher plant really and parasitized by you know who

 

[questioningmeme]

Mever said it was an excuse only understandable
A rabid dog despite tragedy of it is still a rabid dog
In this case it's a rabid pitcher plant really and parasitized by you know who

Click to shrink...

Now that's a bit mean to Angela. But then again, I only ever saw her as a kid who needed a hug.

Like seriously. Both her parents are asses Carmen gave her a beat down she will remember for a long time. Ayin...well, what he did would probably be hailed as the top 10 worst things a parent did.

 

[Kalibrius]

I merely making a metaphor
She's a child at most a teenager mentally but I've seen and met people who are dangerous in real life at that age
And honestly angela is more of crazed cat in my opinion, heartwrenching but so very dangerous when provoked

 

[questioningmeme]

Good thing her uncles and aunts managed to get through and give her the support she needed.

Oh and also her servant grade 9 fixer but he's not that important. (Roland is a miracle)

 

[Kalibrius]

(Gives a half lidded expression) yes a miracle for good and ill that man is indeed

Edit I'm getting the inverting feeling we are becoming the Statler and Waldorf of the thread here

I can only imagine what white night and the other fourth wall abnormalities are thinking of our bantering, probably think we are crazier than they are

 

[Critical]

Maybe (privately) ask Sayaka what would have happened if this had been the witch she met during her would-have-been solo adventure?

The only reason they were able to save all the civillians was because the girls were there as a group (healing the infected, protecting the healer while she's doing her job, transporting the victims so they aren't reinfected, killing the witch).

Wondering if that would help. Make clear that she can do the most good if she accepts that she can't do it all by herself, or would she just be stubborn and try to prove that she could? She might be shaken enough by what happened to listen imo.

 

[questioningmeme]

Too pessimistic. She's already too shaken in my opinion.

We need to give the carrot first before going for the stick.

Btw. @Lepidoptera How long do we have until Walpurgis come knocking?

 

[Alcor]

As for letting the kids talk it out...I don't support it for one simple reason.

They all have problems. Mami is still holding onto the witch bomb, even if we did test Lobotomy on her. She won't be hard enough against Sayaka. More importantly, the baggage she carries with her reputation as a "Senior Magical Girl", won't allow her the correct advice.

Madoka simply doesn't get understand yet, and from Sayaka's pov, that means her opinion is irrelevant.

Homura...the whole problem came from her inability to talk so that doesn't even matter.

We did this before. Ayin did this before. Ignoring someone until it was too late. Not just once...but many many times. Besides.

With Nothing There lurking around, I would rather talk her down now and not have to face her again as a piece of NT's shell.

Click to shrink...

FWIW, I'm not suggesting we never broach these topics with any of them ever. Just not right now in this specific conversation. You're right that they all have problems but most of these problems exist even if the speaker is X, if occasionally in a different form.

None of them have the full picture and none of them can handle having the facts just dumped on them. Homura is the most knowledgeable but even she can be driven to despair by being told how her efforts are what keep increasing Madoka's karmic potential with every loop. And telling the others about Witches or even "Soul Gems literally are your soul" are things Homura has tried with atrocious outcomes. So regardless of whether the speaker is X or Mami they can't accurately impress the situation upon the others whether it's because Mami doesn't know things or because X can't shouldn't say things. We can try anyway but run the risk of sounding like a trope to the others - Sayaka already seems keen to think of us as the jaded, cynical vet and since we can't go "I'm not kidding, if you're not careful - physically and mentally - you could become a witch" we can't really impress the actual stakes on them to match our tone. Or worse, we become just an adult lecturing her/them about what to do despite only knowing them for a few days and without even being a Magical Girl even if we're Magic-adjacent-ish and she starts tuning us out and not taking us seriously.

I also think it's pretty unrealistic to think we can solve all their personal and group flaws in a single day or speech. I see it as more of a medium/long term project. If the goal is: "Get Sayaka to have a properly grounded view of being a Magical Girl (without being able to inform what that actually entails) and without taking a whack at her self-esteem (which would also be a huge problem because Grief) after she just had to trek through a barrier where hospitalized people (which, for all she knew included her crush) were being possessed by eldritch abominations and had to first come to grips that actually this may not be like her magical girl animes. Oh and also to resolve her issues with Homura." I feel like that's a complex project! Maybe not the Homura part, actually - I think that's comparatively a more straightforward issue.

So, with that in mind, I think the best thing we can do for her (and all of them, Homura and Kyoko included) is basically to look after them and provide them time, space, and opportunity beyond the endless fighting for Grief Seeds to stay alive. And to give advice and be a sounding board when needed. Eventually we need them all to get to a point where they can handle the awful truths if only because Kyubey would be able to weaponize them. If I genuinely thought Sayaka was a risk to go off soloing Witches right now I absolutely would not think it'd be okay to stand back and let them talk things out themselves, but I don't think she is. If anything, I think this outing should have demonstrated to her the dangers of Witches beyond the danger to herself and the benefits of working as a team. As long as that appears to be the case, I think we're okay. Because then we can keep speaking with her and trying to work on the rest. And right now I think Mami and Madoka can and will reinforce that if they talk amongst themselves. If somehow that conversation goes off the rails and we've got a code red where Sayaka explodes or sulks then of course then I think we should step in but that doesn't seem likely to me?

I mean, end of the day, like I said, I don't particularly have any strong issues with the write-in. I just wanted to offer an alternative.

 

[Kalibrius]

And that is fine and dandy
After all as nihil shows
All roads lead to rome