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“Human Resources” Shouldn’t Be This Literal: A PMMM/ProjectMoon Quest

Would you Distort or manifest EGO?

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Huhu, this is certainly a tough decision. And if she does opt to reach for personal EGO, it necessarily entails facing a mental ordeal with a real chance of failure. Even for someone like Kali there had to be a suitable challenge to her worldview put in place to spur it.

Lepidoptera said:
Will you surrender your life for a cause, or will you preserve your own happiness?
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I feel the Madoka at the end of the anime would reject this dichotomy even while busy deleting herself from memory. It's not even something trite like godhood ascending past the need for happiness, she simply would not be happy with an outcome that settled for less. Though obviously we don't have the Madoka at the end of the anime.

As for what X would believe, she tells others that they should prioritize themselves more while failing to do the same herself. Though she won't say it out loud:

[X] Prioritizing others

Madoka: "I learned it by watching you!"
 
Lepidoptera said:
Which is more important?
[] Prioritizing others
[] Prioritizing yourself
[] Write-in
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: The answer is simple is it not? Just be selfish-
: There are wrong answers and correct answers.
: You should be able to recall of the arduous journey you, I, we once traversed, grappling with this question. Of the guilt you felt from me, and the pain you bare for me. For the dream of a woman, you didn't even know that well.
: I'm sure you didn't do it for the greater good of mankind when you defeated Abel, Abram, and Adam without a single death X. You understood why you needed to defeat them of course, but there wasn't a need to put yourself through that pain, it didn't matter anyway due to Hokma's records.
: So is there even a need to worry about whether it's selfish or selfless? You just wanted to see those agents alive with you till the end. You wanted to see everyone happy, even if they didn't want to.
: Why limit yourself to me and them, when you have always operated as 'WE'? Why worry about the need to sacrifice something when your greed has always wanted everyone safe? I know you are more than capable of succeeding against impossible odds X.
: ...That's...You know that's not possible Ayin.
: Indeed. For us, it was true. But our children have always been better than us are they not? No matter how expertly they sometimes fool themselves to think otherwise.
: If I sounded a bit too much like Binah for a moment there, then my apologies X...Have some fate in yourself. Even at your most selfish, I know you wouldn't be able to stop yourself from helping out.
: Don't lose hope in the person that succeeded where countless others couldn't. Don't lose hope in those that are around you. We'll find a way.

What is more important?
[X] Help and Believe in those around you.

It's a team effort. There's no reason to focus on the self or those around you. You didn't defeat day 49 alone nor did your agents all survived till day 50 without your guidance either.
 
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There certainly isn't a wrong answer really. The old scrooge who sits alone with his cash will regret his selfishness just as surely as the medical worker who suffers from overwork may regret their altruism. And while this probably has been said before, it's about balance.

I think prioritizing yourself is probably best if left with just those two answers to choose from, but for people like Madoka, she's going to feel better helping others, which would fulfill her own emotional needs which in a way, is prioritizing herself...It's not like it's ever so simple like a switch, prioritize yourself or others. It's not even a Dial between extreme Altruism and extreme Selfishness. Maybe it's a multi-dimensional switchboard spectrum where you can occupy multiple places at once but this metaphor is running away from me.

I hate that the most I can give sound like non-answers, like "strike a balance" and "It's complicated", but it's not like I figured it out or have needed to figure it out so...

The most I can do is give it thought.
 
I wanted to launch into some speculation about how this is not exactly the right question, and that even people with diametrically different approaches to life can answer the same way for different reasons. However, this is more of a question about the root of motivation than about life position, isn't it? For example, a person who puts others before himself can still take care of himself, because you cannot help others if you do not have the strength to do so.

But if we look at the actions of X and Madoka, it seems clear enough to me what they would say. And it matches my own answer to this.

[X] Prioritizing others.

The reasons, reasoning and actions behind this may differ, it is more a matter of starting point of thinking. Also, I think it's important for X to say it out loud, to finally admit that even after becoming an Abnormality, she hasn't become the monster she thinks she is.
 
There's a lot of nuance that's already been brought up - maybe you should draw a bigger bubble around 'yourself'/ focus on those 'others' you care about; the fuzziness of the distinction between the two options; Madoka being Madoka and X being X.

But I think I come down mostly on @Eternal_0bserver 's logic: there's only one choice these two would give, even if one of them might not admit it, and it'll be good for X to say it out loud.

[X] Prioritizing others.
 
[X] Help and Believe in those around you
...Who cares about being "realistic"
X had achieved impossiable, so why care about being realistic...when you are a walking miracle.
 
Trexfromants said:
X abno want to "help" everything
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That's right, X is committed to helping others, regardless of form. This in my opinion is one of two things that X needs to understand in order to come to terms with herself - there is no significant difference between her human and true forms. So, since what X wants has not changed, why should she change if she accepts her nature? She also personifies the changes that occur through effort and will, so why should she be doomed to act against her desires?
 
Madoka's core is *helping others* I really do not think that prioritizing herself is still *Madoka*.

That doesn't means she can't be selfish, it means that her very being is mostly inclined to help others, to reach outwards.

X has some of the same elements, but is even worse when it comes to being selfish.

As for the *Help and believe in those around you* vote, personally, I think it's naught more than a fancy *prioritizing others* vote, it doesn't really says anything different from the base form.
 
Nyarky said:
believe in those around you
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Is the main difference in my eyes.

Prioritizing others have too much "I will put others above my own safety" energy.

The girls should be selfish and rely more on other people too.

Like how X treated Homura as a portable TT2 protocol during the NT battle, so should she continue doing that with more of her allies.

It's better to reinforce that mindset of "She'll help others and they'll help her in turn" instead of just relying on "Prioritize Others".
 
I don't see any differences due to this addition, prioritizing others doesn't mean not believing in them, and Madoka's problem is not that she doesn't believe in her friends anyway, it's that she doesn't believe in herself.

Madoka believes others can do bigger things than her, and that's why she should help them, she is not important, they are, she already *believes in others*, and look at what happened when she believed Mami could take on Charlotte in canon, or when she believed Homura could live in the new universe alone in Rebellion.

Same for X, X thinks that she is only there to help those around, and believe full well that they can do things once helped, there is still no need to add this part, it is already there. X sees herself as a way for others to reach their true potential, she is a mere catalyst, a pawn for Ayin, to play the role she was given in the script.

So, still think it's just a fancy way of putting it that don't really add anything of substance.
 
Nyarky said:
I don't see any differences due to this addition, prioritizing others doesn't mean not believing in them, and Madoka's problem is not that she doesn't believe in her friends anyway, it's that she doesn't believe in herself.

Madoka believes others can do bigger things than her, and that's why she should help them, she is not important, they are, she already *believes in others*, and look at what happened when she believed Mami could take on Charlotte in canon, or when she believed Homura could live in the new universe alone in Rebellion.

Same for X, X thinks that she is only there to help those around, and believe full well that they can do things once helped, there is still no need to add this part, it is already there. X sees herself as a way for others to reach their true potential, she is a mere catalyst, a pawn for Ayin, to play the role she was given in the script.

So, still think it's just a fancy way of putting it that don't really add anything of substance.
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Yeah, but will Madoka take it like that? That's the real question, I feel.

[X] Help and Believe in those around you, but also believe in yourself

made a bit of an edit i'm not too sure about
 
I rather agree with Nyarky. It's a question of what seems more important to the characters than how they should act based on that fact. Especially since both X and Madoka already know to believe in others and in themselves, even if Madoka hasn't taken the latter to heart yet.
 
Kutenaiabi said:
[X] Help and Believe in those around you, but also believe in yourself
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That's a little too much *have your cake and eat it too* I feel, you can just as well write that as *prioritize yourself and others*, and I don't think this is really an answer, so much as trying to dodge the question.

A true write in here would be an actual third option, not just a rephrasing of one that exists, or trying to do both.

Edit:

It also is missing what Eternal_Observer pointed out: this is not a question of *what will you do?* it's *what is important to you?*
 
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questioningmeme said:
It's better to reinforce that mindset of "She'll help others and they'll help her in turn" instead of just relying on "Prioritize Others".
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These two sentences are fundamentally about different things - one is a statement of fact (not that it's necessarily factual), the other is an imperative. It would be a mistake to even compare them.

Anyway,
[X] Prioritizing others

Nyarky said:
A true write in here would be an actual third option, not just a rephrasing of one that exists, or trying to do both.
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The ultimate "I refuse to choose" option here would be to have X perform Lobotomy on herself right now and find out what she really thinks that way, neatly passing off the responsibility for the decision to the QM.
 
I think that trying to paint this question as a simple binary decision, pardon the pun, is a bit dishonest. Both choices have aspects to them that are both selfish and selfless.

Sacrificing herself could be considered selfless, but the price paid would be more than just her own happiness. The people around her would be hurt irreparably if Madoka died, even if it was to protect their lives. For some of them, especially if it was to protect them.

The main theme of PMMM, I think, is that you shouldn't rush to throw your own life away or sacrifice yourself for a cause.

Most of the tragedy of PMMM comes from young people with low self-esteem being tricked into sacrificing their lives to protect people from Witches, when they themselves will end up turning into Witches and hurting the people they wanted to protect.

There are plenty of causes and organizations out there that will try to take advantage of your good intentions and desire to help others, and if you rush in blindly ahead, you'll likely end up making mistakes that you'll regret.

You should value your own life, if not just for yourself, then for the sake of the people who care about you.

Madoka turning herself into a Magical Girl, who will eventually transform into the world's most powerful Witch, would definitely fall under the category of idealistic mistakes that would hurt the people around her and herself.

In that sense, yes, Madoka should prioritize herself in this situation. Making a Contract would end up hurting both herself and the people around her, even if it would protect them in the short-term.
 
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questioningmeme said:
: The answer is simple is it not? Just be selfish-
: There are wrong answers and correct answers.
: You should be able to recall of the arduous journey you, I, we once traversed, grappling with this question. Of the guilt you felt from me, and the pain you bare for me. For the dream of a woman, you didn't even know that well.
: I'm sure you didn't do it for the greater good of mankind when you defeated Abel, Abram, and Adam without a single death X. You understood why you needed to defeat them of course, but there wasn't a need to put yourself through that pain, it didn't matter anyway due to Hokma's records.
: So is there even a need to worry about whether it's selfish or selfless? You just wanted to see those agents alive with you till the end. You wanted to see everyone happy, even if they didn't want to.
: Why limit yourself to me and them, when you have always operated as 'WE'? Why worry about the need to sacrifice something when your greed has always wanted everyone safe? I know you are more than capable of succeeding against impossible odds X.
: ...That's...You know that's not possible Ayin.
: Indeed. For us, it was true. But our children have always been better than us are they not? No matter how expertly they sometimes fool themselves to think otherwise.
: If I sounded a bit too much like Binah for a moment there, then my apologies X...Have some fate in yourself. Even at your most selfish, I know you wouldn't be able to stop yourself from helping out.
: Don't lose hope in the person that succeeded where countless others couldn't. Don't lose hope in those that are around you. We'll find a way.

What is more important?
[X] Help and Believe in those around you.

It's a team effort. There's no reason to focus on the self or those around you. You didn't defeat day 49 alone nor did your agents all survived till day 50 without your guidance either.
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Jiminy Cricket, that was one heck of an argument. I'm thoroughly convinced, and I'm changing my vote.

[X] Help and Believe in those around you.
 
Nyarky said:
That's a little too much *have your cake and eat it too* I feel, you can just as well write that as *prioritize yourself and others*, and I don't think this is really an answer, so much as trying to dodge the question.

A true write in here would be an actual third option, not just a rephrasing of one that exists, or trying to do both.

Edit:

It also is missing what Eternal_Observer pointed out: this is not a question of *what will you do?* it's *what is important to you?*
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i mean, fair. I did say I wasn't sure about the edit, but that feels like me being defensive.

Edit: But it also feels like there's no real good answer to this question, based on what you just said. I dunno if I even feel that way, but it came to my head.
 
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[X] Prioritizing those that she loves.

Basically proposing this a Madoka scaling things back from broad nebulous others to those people she specifically cares about.
 
Lepidoptera said:
Which is more important?
[] Prioritizing others
[] Prioritizing yourself
[] Write-in
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That's-
Well, for Madoka they're kind of the same thing?

We are all individuals, the singular self, and it is natural for us to look out for that self, to be selfish. So the logical conclusion is to prioritize yourself over all others.

The thing is, we are also a social species. We do not live in a vacuum, but share this world with billions of other people. We interact with each other, we help, we share, we cry and laugh and love and live. And as we do we learn about each other, about their favorite things and pet peeves, about their past and how it shaped them, about their desires for the future, about their strengths and convictions, their faults and foibles, their fears and hopes and dreams. And in time, their dreams can become ours.

One person is a world all by themself, and we live on a planet with over 8 billion people, with 8 billion worlds. And when two meet, when two talk and learn and know of each other, that person become part of our world, and we become part of theirs.

It is good to love and care for others, and it is good to love and care for yourself.

When we care for others, it is a way of expressing our love for the people we love, to let them know that they matter and have worth and are not alone, and in turn those people will want to care for us, just as we did for them.

When we care for ourselves, those that care for us are happy and relieved, because they are happy that we are happy.

To love ourselves can enable us to love others, and in loving others can we learn to love ourselves.

In a certain timeline that lead to the birth of a goddess, a girl made a wish to deny the despair of countless others at the cost of her own existence. But I don't think the thoughts that led up to that decision were "It is for the greater good" or "This is the only way my life has any meaning." She simply desired to eased the pain of all that she could, because it was what she truly wanted. The friends she had lost, those that fell before her, those that will suffer in the future, and the girl that risked countless lifetimes for her sake, carrying an impossible burden all on her own. She wished to ease their suffering, because she is a kind person who dislikes watching others be hurt, and knowing that they are happy makes her happy.

For Madoka, caring for others is something that genuinely makes her happy, so it is caring for herself. And caring for herself gives happiness to others and allows her to keep caring for others.

It is caring for everyone, both herself and others.

[X] Pursuing the happiness of others gives me happiness, and preserving my own happiness gives others happiness.
 
MilitantBird said:
I think that trying to paint this question as a simple binary decision, pardon the pun, is a bit dishonest. Both choices have aspects to them that are both selfish and selfless.

Sacrificing herself could be considered selfless, but the price paid would be more than just her own happiness. The people around her would be hurt irreparably if Madoka died, even if it was to protect their lives. For some of them, especially if it was to protect them.

The main theme of PMMM, I think, is that you shouldn't rush to throw your own life away or sacrifice yourself for a cause.

Most of the tragedy of PMMM comes from young people with low self-esteem being tricked into sacrificing their lives to protect people from Witches, when they themselves will end up turning into Witches and hurting the people they wanted to protect.

There are plenty of causes and organizations out there that will try to take advantage of your good intentions and desire to help others, and if you rush in blindly ahead, you'll likely end up making mistakes that you'll regret.

You should value your own life, if not just for yourself, then for the sake of the people who care about you.

Madoka turning herself into a Magical Girl, who will eventually transform into the world's most powerful Witch, would definitely fall under the category of idealistic mistakes that would hurt the people around her and herself.

In that sense, yes, Madoka should prioritize herself in this situation. Making a Contract would end up hurting both herself and the people around her, even if it would protect them in the short-term.
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Yes, but isn't it all about what you do with your aspirations, and not the simpler question of what you consider more important? The conclusions from this answer can be different, and both X and the current Madoka also understand that self-sacrifice is not necessarily the best way. But as I said, the question itself is much more basic - whether to give priority to the well-being of others or oneself. It is because of simplicity that there can be basically only two answers, neither of which is more correct than the other.
 
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