Would you Distort or manifest EGO?


  • Total voters
    159
: Sometimes I wonder what are you trying to achieve by such childlike behaviors, until after hearing from your old colleagues then I realized, that you cannot live without the attention of everyone. Also, for your knowledge, I have already concluded my business with your lover. He violated my still living corpse for my knowledge, I almost destroyed every part of his corporation multiple times. Unless he plans to reignite his almost religious hatred towards me, I simply do not care more about him than this cup of tea in my hand
 
: Sometimes I wonder what are you trying to achieve by such childlike behaviors, until after hearing from your old colleagues then I realized, that you cannot live without the attention of everyone. Also, for your knowledge, I have already concluded my business with your lover. He violated my still living corpse for my knowledge, I almost destroyed every part of his corporation multiple times. Unless he plans to reignite his almost religious hatred towards me, I simply do not care more about him than this cup of tea in my hand
: Again? How many times did this happend? 8?
: I'm afraid they simply do not have better things to do. How tragic.
Anyway, MALKUTH
 
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I almost destroyed every part of his corporation multiple times.
: Well...there was never a possibility of you deviating from the script but I do agree. It's water under the bridge now, Carmen, so leave her be.
: Besides...I technically owe Binah one for helping Angela out.
: You are supposed to be on my side...You know what, I'm just gonna go back to grinding MDs. Feel free to sleep on the couch tonight Ayin.
: I'm not on your side in the first place...
Malcute indeed.
 
:Those two sure are noisy... Aren't they forgetting they are broadcasting their voice into this place?
:...*sigh* How Annoying, Roland?
:Yeah?
:Close your eyes and block your ears, I'm going to use some countermeasures... It was supposed to be used on that Arbiter but I do not care anymore.
:.... You know, I'm just gonna leave, see you later.

[@ρerce%ption ∫ilt%r re∑Θving&G|]
 
Poor poor Carmen. She wished to cure the Disease of the mind, and is now nothing more than one of its primary vectors. A puppet, oblivious to its own strings. And if it wasn't for outside forces, she would have been long discarded like the trash she is.
 
You know after the recent event...can X do what Dante does? She should right? Given that she has even higher mastery of the light than Dante's low-quality light connection via golden boughs based on Faust's words.

Was Lepid onto something all along? Trees of Light = Distortion connection?

Can we use Dante's tactic of opening a door into the Distortion's mind and forcefully undistort them via Ayin's Family Special Shock Therapy, and also talks some sense into them?
 
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i think thats Dante's Specialty.
His ability, after all, is opening a door into hell.
We already have a way to do that, lobotomy.
And we cannot force them to come back either. After we enter their brain space, we have to use their logic to convince them to make them come back.
Also, what do you mean low quality, to me the light only have quantity, not quality.
 
And we cannot force them to come back either. After we enter their brain space, we have to use their logic to convince them to make them come back.
Even Dante still needed to use Ayin's Special Shock Therapy of beating the crap out of that chicken before he manages to make them come back.

As for Lobotomy, we haven't done that yet. We literally haven't tried to use Lobotomy to cause a Realization/Meltdown scenario yet, so we don't know if we can do it or not.

Currently, all we did with Lobotomy is some basic White Healing/Reinforcement for the girls' troubles.

Also, what do you mean low quality, to me the light only have quantity, not quality.
Low Quality as in Dante isn't the literal Light generator that can just instantly spread the light over the entire planet by merely existing outside of his shell like X can.

X has a better connection with the Light (she is the physical manifestation of the Facility the Seed of Light was born from), and she can manipulates the Light much much better than Dante can (through Lobotomy, manifesting her own world, and utilizing the ordeals/E.G.Os/Abnormalities at her disposal).

In terms of light power, X is a whole deal greater than what Dante can do. The only difference between the two is that Dante can revive those he has contracted with by "prying open the door to hell" whatever that imagery is supposed to stand for. It might be because he's a Distortion. It might be related to how his Clockhead has the potential of being a singularity.

(The City has a goddamn Conceptual Incinerator for Ayin's sake, how absurd is that place?)

Which we don't know whether X can do with her "employees" or not, since I don't think any of us will suggest killing one of our current "employees" to test whether the Daughter of Sun and Moon has a form of TT2 protocol.

X is still "incomplete" after all. And we haven't really tried out everything we can with her abilities yet.
 
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I personally think that we don't really need a miraculous method to help distortions feel better, just good old therapy on our girls, this is how the Manager do things, by therapy, the fact that part of this therapy happens during literal meltdowns is irrelevant, what is important is to listen and help manage unhealthy mindstates.

Better a distortion that is able to enjoy their life in a healthy manner than a human you forcibly reduced to less than they were in the name of *normalness*.
 
Better a distortion that is able to enjoy their life in a healthy manner than a human you forcibly reduced to less than they were in the name of *normalness*.
To be entirely fair, being a Distortion and being able to enjoy life in a healthy manner are mutually exclusive. If a person were emotionally stable, they wouldn't be a Distortion.
 
To be entirely fair, being a Distortion and being able to enjoy life in a healthy manner are mutually exclusive. If a person were emotionally stable, they wouldn't be a Distortion.

Is it really true though? The conditions that lead to becoming a distortion do need to be in a bad place, but is it needed to stay one? Or can you overcome some bad parts without reverting to *normal*?

And even if you keep a *not normal* state of mind, as long a you're happy and not hurting others in horrible ways, is it really that bad? Blue and Orange morality isn't necessarily dangerous to yourself and others, and it isn't even sure that distortions even reach that point.

You don't need to be human to be humane.
 
Is it really true though? The conditions that lead to becoming a distortion do need to be in a bad place, but is it needed to stay one? Or can you overcome some bad parts without reverting to *normal*?

And even if you keep a *not normal* state of mind, as long a you're happy and not hurting others in horrible ways, is it really that bad? Blue and Orange morality isn't necessarily dangerous to yourself and others, and it isn't even sure that distortions even reach that point.

You don't need to be human to be humane.
Distorions always have victims, even if that victim is themselves. As humans who have become warped by delusion and desire it is in their nature, a distortion which has no victims and which does not do harm to anyone, anything, or itself is by definition impossible.

To give an example of a "Victimless" Distortion in Distortion Detective the daughter of a fixer one-sidedly pushes people away from herself and becomes obsessed with her own victim-hood and grief. eventually she locks herself away and distorts, changing her room into a landscape full of evil mermaid creatures which would have tortured her endlessly unless mosses had not saved her from herself. Of course even though she meant no harm to anyone those that knew or cared for her, such as her father surely wanted to help her and were harmed by her distorted actions or else why he would have not asked Moses to help her would he?

And in limbus company even the simple desire to make good food you and people you care about can enjoy became twisted by Distortion and Carmen as the Voice of Distortion turning the poor victimized restaurant owner into a beast which commanded an army of vile headchickens.

Distortions are the result of delusion, instability, and mental illness empowered by the light, yes these things are true and valid parts of the human experience which all shall feel over the course of their life but that does not make them good or healthy. People may be born without arms or legs, or even loose the limbs they are born with and those things are natural but that does not make them good.

Edit: Another good example from distortion detective is the photographer who lured in the forgotten and unloved so that they may be preserved frozen in his photographs, even though yes him and those people where hated and unloved, and he only intended to help them. But he had no right to infringe on their will, person hood, humanity, or body. Even though they will eventually die anyways after he is stopped it does not give his actions validity for who is he to impose himself on to them, their family, and the community in such a manner?

And that's not to say they should just conform to their society or not attempt to assert themselves, but there is a better way to do that where one moves past their limits and becomes a being surpassing the Distorted state of mind. an EGOist, although they are not purely good beings. YuRia is a good example of this she's not "normal" and posses strange powers as an EGOists but isn't victimizing people like a Distortion, she even bodily becomes her own ego after being forced out of her body but she's still not a Distortion and is an EGOist.

Also just to clarify Distortions are still humans, the products of humans, and of humanity, Zena talks about this during her monologue, and it is of note how in actual cannon we have never seen this supposed "good" or "humane" Distortion.
 
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Distorions always have victims, even if that victim is themselves. As humans who have become warped by delusion and desire it is in their nature, a distortion which has no victims and which does not do harm to anyone, anything, or itself is by definition impossible.
Why? What does being warped by delusion and desire (not that I think that's a good definition, since it covers, like, 90% of the City's population) have to do with harming other people, or themselves?

I mean, I can see that they're connected, but "by definition" is certainly unwarranted. You can't just lump every negative tendency under one conceptual umbrella, and refuse to differentiate them.

I haven't played Limbus, but I remember hearing that Dante is a Distortion himself. Or was that one of those unfounded rumors that got cleared up later?
 
I haven't played Limbus, but I remember hearing that Dante is a Distortion himself. Or was that one of those unfounded rumors that got cleared up later?

Supposedly, he's just an amnesiac who had his head replaced with a clock prosthetic. Although the fact that he can apparently "speak" Distortion definitely has me wondering about that.
 
However, due to the April Fool event, the possibility of Dante being a Singularity-level technology instead of a Distortion is likely higher.

For one thing, the Distortion part could easily be his connection with the Golden Bough (similar to how X can communicate and understand Leonie even though she's a literal compass).

And the fact that Vergilius opened Dante's head and messed around in there, even mentioning things like "Memory Modules" and likely seeing other electronic devices, suggests that Dante is more technological than he is Distortion.

The talks of Pre-Amnesia Dante with his head, and how Chap 3 seems to be foreshadowing that Human Head Dante isn't the same as Clock Head Dante, is giving out the evidence (Could also be red-herring) that Dante might not be just a Distortion.

And honestly speaking, after the recent "CONCEPT INCINERATOR" technology drop, I'd not be surprised if a clock for a head that can revive people from the dead and connect with golden boughs is a technology in the City.

As for the talk about undistorting the distortion, I honestly don't want to repeat this useless song and dance again. I don't really care about the whole Carmen talks about how happy a Distortion is and how they deserve to stay happy or whatever. Already heard it enough from Carmen herself.

Moreover, if it is a method that we can use, this is a good opportunity to undistort Argalia without having to spend a long amount of time trying to play therapist for him.
 
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Why? What does being warped by delusion and desire (not that I think that's a good definition, since it covers, like, 90% of the City's population) have to do with harming other people, or themselves?

I mean, I can see that they're connected, but "by definition" is certainly unwarranted. You can't just lump every negative tendency under one conceptual umbrella, and refuse to differentiate them.

I haven't played Limbus, but I remember hearing that Dante is a Distortion himself. Or was that one of those unfounded rumors that got cleared up later?
Dante is complicated, being a distortion is certainty one theory although i don't subscribe to it, the manifestation of a distortion is the product of a warped state of mind + the Light, usually nudged along by Carmen which is fine and all but it's explicitly brought up that Dante is a different person from before he was a clock, as well as having a different brain, and in chapter 1 and the April fools event his powers seem to be more connected to his personal "Star" whatever that is and the clock's functionality.

And when i say by definition i mean that distortions are literally people overtaken by their desires and negative emotions to such an extent they appear insane even by the standards of the city and start attacking people with evil chickens, lobotomizing people, be a demon, commit mass indiscriminate slaughter, that yes Distortions defiantly take things to far. Literally anything taken to far of an extreme will hurt people, yogurts nice but turning all physical matter into yogurt is a bit much.
And mind you all of the examples come from original mundane feelings and understandable emotional reactions like wanting to make people happy with food, having test anxiety, being cheated on a contract and betrayed, and being depressed/clowned on(phillip).

Like hypothetically a non-crazy, non-homicidal, non-ax crazy distortion exists than i guess that's okay? but then whats the difference between that person and an EGOists whose EGO modifies their body? like with YuRia's teddy bear body she inhabites as a defense mechanism to prevent being forcefully distorted.
 
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the undistorting in the new event is something we cannot achieve right now since all the distortion around us is so deep into their own loop, they literally cannot be convinced there's any other way. And all we can do is negate or help them in other ways.
still, It seems that the only way to undistort someone is to convince them to come out from their own head then give them the help to let themselves prove to themselves that their thinking is wrong, that way the foundation of their distorting is wrong. So their self destructive loop stops.
At least That is how I sees the undistorting in the new event.
 
the undistorting in the new event is something we cannot achieve right now since all the distortion around us is so deep into their own loop, they literally cannot be convinced there's any other way. And all we can do is negate or help them in other ways.
This is only if we cannot force a Meltdown/Realization event. And given that our sister Angela can do that, X most certainly can too.

Push the targetted Distortion's "new mental safety net" and undistort them via Ayin's Shock Therapy Special of beating the shit out of your emotions and convincing them how they are being stupid about what they are doing.

We will know what to do once the Distortion literally spills their memories onto us, similar to how Meltdowns and Realizations did to Ayin and Angela.

We didn't try it before because the only distortions near us are our daughters. But given that Argalia is right there, we do have a potential test subject in the future.
 
This is only if we cannot force a Meltdown/Realization event. And given that our sister Angela can do that, X most certainly can too.

Push the targetted Distortion's "new mental safety net" and undistort them via Ayin's Shock Therapy Special of beating the shit out of your emotions and convincing them how they are being stupid about what they are doing.

We will know what to do once the Distortion literally spills their memories onto us, similar to how Meltdowns and Realizations did to Ayin and Angela.

We didn't try it before because the only distortions near us are our daughters. But given that Argalia is right there, we do have a potential test subject in the future.
I'll just say, I intensely dislike the idea of convincing people they're wrong by beating them up. The problem being that this has nothing to do with whether they're right or wrong in the first place. I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to cure someone who's had "three lights" beaten into them by (once) beating them until they say "four lights" again.

Also, it is not somehow okay to do this to Argalia, any more than it's okay to do it to Homura or Kyoko or Leonie.
 
I'll just say, I intensely dislike the idea of convincing people they're wrong by beating them up. The problem being that this has nothing to do with whether they're right or wrong in the first place. I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to cure someone who's had "three lights" beaten into them by (once) beating them until they say "four lights" again.

Also, it is not somehow okay to do this to Argalia, any more than it's okay to do it to Homura or Kyoko or Leonie.
That's because I'm okay with doing it to Homura, Kyoko, and Leonie too. Because we are dealing with the concept of emotions turned into weapons, not emotions as they are in our heads. I'm just suggesting we do it with Argalia first because that is way more likely of convincing you guys to test it out before using it on the girls.

That and I have an agenda of undistorting everyone for that 100% happy-ending goal. And given that everyone doesn't really care about anyone other than our daughters, Argalia and other potential distortions who don't have a close connection to X or are a young cute magical girl, won't get any real attention paid to them.

So how can I convince you to vote for undistorting them? By suggesting this as an easy alternative. We obviously (more of you guys because I'm all for it) will never even consider helping Argalia out the normal way or any other non-magical girl distortions, so might as well use the easiest path and achieve the same results anyway.
 
2.2.12 - Reunion
Chapter 108 - Reunion

The Floor of Art is a peaceful place. While most of the Library's corridors and less esoteric floors appear at a glance to be cut and polished wood, Netzach's layer looks like it's been carved out of an actual, still-living tree. Knotted roots weave between thick bark beneath your feet to form a surprisingly stable floor. Thick wooden tendrils wrap around and through bookshelves, which themselves seem less constructed and more just carved out of the walls. Tiny, humanoid things with oddly-proportioned bodies and little in the way of discernible features dot the place, glowing a bright and presumably healthy green. The scattered books and loosely arranged trash scattered everywhere gives the impression of a cobbled-together hideout or shelter, someplace people with nowhere else to go would use for a moment's reprieve before continuing on. And yet, there's a pervasive sense of livedness filling the Floor's halls.

You've been staring at the door to the lounge for at least a minute now. Maybe longer. The upper-layer Department Heads, now the Patron Librarians of the bottom floors of the Library, are resting on the other side. Apparently, it's a common occurrence after they've finished their allotted tasks. Or, in Netzach's case, whenever they decide they're done and want to sneak off somewhere.

Slowly, carefully, you grip the doorknob. You can feel the emotions radiating from the other side. So they're actually here, then. It's be pretty awkward if you worked yourself up just to open the door and find that everyone had left to go do something else while you were on your way down. Of course, that doesn't eliminate the possibility that it's somebody else in the room.

More out of curiosity than anything else, you tune your senses further towards the emotions filtering put from the inside of the room. Instead of relaxation, calm, or anything else you'd expect from a break room, worry weighs down on the people inside. Spikes of anxiety run through the oppressive tension, leaving you with a very unfortunate picture of what's going on. The levels of stress you're detecting aren't more than you'd expect from an ordinary conversation, but it's certainly not a happy talk going on.

Maybe you should just wait for them to finish. After all, it seems like the Sephirot are in the middle of a rather important discussion. Interrupting would just start things off on the wrong foot. You wouldn't want to make a poor impression right away after not seeing them for so long. Then again, jumping in right after a heavy discussion might taint whatever interactions you have next. Maybe you should just leave, and come back l-

"Hi!"

You very nearly tear off the doorknob in surprise at the sudden voice behind you. You turn to see one of the Magical Girls carrying a stack of books nearly as tall as they are, already moving on through the Floor's wooded halls. Seems like Angela hasn't lost the chance to expand her workforce.

Gah. You've been overthinking this. Taking a deep breath, you turn the knob and push open the door.

—————————

"…isn't an excuse for- oh!"

Malkuth, a short, light brown-haired woman wearing a similarly-colored uniform, stands with both hands placed on the large wooden table. The Patron Librarian of History wears a small frown that disappears under an expression of surprise at your sudden entrance. At her side, Hod turns slightly to catch a glance of you. The shorter girl looks more subdued than before, though you suppose she was on that track even when you last saw her. Like her colleagues, the young woman wears a mix of suit and dress that matches the dark-brown color of her hair.

"Manager. We did not expect for you to arrive. Please, take a seat." a new voice says. Your attention is pulled towards Yesod, your former Head of the Information Team. He's still pretty much the same as you remember, cold, a fan of the color purple, and with an unusually high seriousness-to-body mass ratio. Still, he was always one of your most reliable coworkers. The man in green sitting half-drunk next to him, Netzach, perks up slightly. You idly note that he's tied his hair back, instead of just letting it fall all over the place. And that he's been drinking rather heavily, but that's much less of a surprise.

You carefully pull back a chair and sit, scooting in towards the table just a bit afterwards. "Thanks. So… it's certainly been a while. Longer for you than it was for me, I hear."

"Maybe, but we didn't know what had happened to you. Everyone thought you had disappeared into the Light, like Angela almost did." Hod says quietly. You raise an eyebrow at that piece of information.

"Oh? My sister almost disappeared into the Light, you say? How silly of her to forget to mention that to me. I'll have to remind her about it later." you tease. You're not really that upset, even if it's a bit annoying not knowing things. You certainly would've been worried at the time, but knowing that she's alright now takes most of the edge off. That being said, you're definitely going to harass her about leaving things out later.

"That phrasing isn't entirely correct, Hod." Yesod cuts in. "While one could say that we believed that the Manager had dissolved into the Light, but we were mistaken regarding the person that the Manager was and the person we believed them to be."

"And that's exactly my point!" Malkuth says suddenly, apparently having circled back around to whatever she was talking about before you came in. "We were working with Manager for thousands of years, and we never even realized they were a different person! Not even once!"

"To be fair, it's not like we ever remembered much of it at a time. Besides, the Manager doesn't seem too worked up about it." Netzach interrupts, setting aside his bottle of what looks to be a very expensive brand of wine. Somebody's been taking full advantage of their Light construction, it seems.

"Netzach's right," you confirm, to the surprise of anybody who heard he was debating against his fellow Sephirot about a matter other than mind-altering substances. "There wasn't any way you could've known about me. You had to project some of your issues with my father into me so you could deal with them. That's just how everything was set up. It'd be illogical to hold you responsible at all. The only fault in what he's said is the fact that I'm not your manager anymore. If anything, that title fits Angela better than me now."

Malkuth sits down, letting out a weighty breath you didn't know she was holding. Hod rests a hand on her shoulder. Were they really worried you were going to be upset with them?

"Oh? Then what title do you hold now?" Yesod asks. You resist the urge to roll your eyes at his theatrics. Is it really that difficult to just ask somebody's name?

…Well, if you'd known that person for years, that would actually be pretty awkward.

"Legally, I go by Alexandra Thrones now. That's just lack of creativity on the forger's part, though, so I'd rather you not use that name. I'd prefer you just call me X, since it might as well have been my name the whole time."

"X, then. While we are on the subject of you, we have some questions regarding your current state of being." Yesod continues, now taking much the same tone he'd use when requesting your analysis of a new Abnormality.

When you don't respond immediately, Hod decides to clarify. "It's about… well, you being an Abnormality. We're just wondering if you're still okay after something like that."

You're not certain what your expression is at this point. In all likelihood, it's completely blank. After all, there's not much you can really say to that. "It's been alright. I haven't had any breaches, except for that one incident. I can't sleep anymore, and while I haven't gotten the chance to try I don't think I can get drunk. Aside from that, things mostly feel the same for me."

A bit of the tension leaves the room when you finish your diagnosis. As long as your container isn't breached, becoming an Abnormality hasn't affected you much. Not needing sleep has been a net gain, really.

"Now, enough with the serious discussions!" you declare boldly. "My kids need bedtime stories, and I don't know any that don't involve dismemberment at some point or another. Anyone got anything they can share?"

For a moment, there's an awkward silence in the break room as the Sephirot absorb what you just asked. Then, after taking a short breath, Hod speaks. "When I was younger, my uncle would visit for winters. He always told us a new story every year. I think it went something like…"

———————————————

Der Freischütz's Sapling - Observation Level 2/3
Porccubus' Sapling - Observation Level 2/3
CENSORED's Sapling - Observation Level EXPUNGED/REDACTED

On the subject of fighting Distortions, beating a person into submission isn't a fast track to solving their mental issues. Most of the Distortions we've seen just die when they're defeated. That being said, fighting a Distortion does typically require you to engage with them emotionally in some way. I think my favorite example of this is the Crying Children's second fight, which involves repeatedly forcing Philip's emotions back to the surface and breaking down the emotional barriers he's built up. In the end, Philip loses his immunity to Burn and literally burns himself to death in his final phase, dying not just in battle but because he never actually got over any of his feelings, and when faced with them one last time he can't stand it.
 
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