Magical Girl Quest - The Fire That Burns

Rukia said:

A yellow book, lines crawling across the cover, Karen refused to tell you it's purpose.

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The King in Yellow, maybe?



Anyway, you guys... I do not think we should go for anything new when Cerys is supercharged like that. Plus, we know OOC that any new spell will take weeks/months to create.
(What do we need a swordbeam for, anyway? We have lots of strong magic already... and as an aside, we fire Juggernaut Wave from our sword; it is literally that.)
If we just had a lot more magic, I might be interested in going for the creation route, but... no. There is something else we ought to take care of and veekie has the right idea.


Instead of doing something new, we should gain better control of what we have. "Controlling stupidly large amounts of energy" is basically Juggernaut Wave.
Plus, a smidgen of the excess should go into seeing if we can gain another ranged attack by repurposing Levitate and Limitless on Infinity Edge. That would have the added benefit of dealing physical, non-thermal damage without taking weeks to figure out because we are just combining what we have already.

I actually like this idea

[X] Find somewhere secluded and...
-[X] Work on controlling stupidly large amounts of energy. How much finesse can you manage with your most familiar spells while massively overcharged? Work on it until you either have it all under full control or the excess burns off.

I'll be the first I suppose.

[X] Naron

We're really not at that point anymore where we can just pick up spells. I think it would be better to refine what we've got like with wave.

Or you know, we can refine what we have with Alpha and Omega, and permanently increase our magic store in the process. I personally consider that of a greater value than Juggernaut Wave.

I have been convinced

[X] Naron

Codex said:

Or you know, we can refine what we have with Alpha and Omega, and permanently increase our magic store in the process. I personally consider that of a greater value than Juggernaut Wave.

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Maybe so... but this is one of the few chances we have to exercise with JW without exhausting ourselves in a few minutes.
Alpha and Omega is something we can practice with at all times. It will always increase our magic capacity when used, anyway.

Plus, we kind of know that Cerys has a ridiculous amount of magic ready at all times anyway.

Naron said:

Maybe so... but this is one of the few chances we have to exercise with JW without exhausting ourselves in a few minutes.
Alpha and Omega is something we can practice with at all times. It will always increase our magic capacity when used, anyway.

Plus, we kind of know that Cerys has a ridiculous amount of magic ready at all times anyway.

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A & O isn't going to increase our magic to such a degree unless we have a ton of excess magic. This is a rare opportunity in which we just absorbed a ton of energy, and I'm not sure we can get this much again anytime soon. And just because Cerys has a ton of magic doesn't mean a permanent increase in magic capacity isn't immensely useful. At least, I think this is gonna level A & O more than it might level Juggernaut Wave, and the overall permanent improvements are larger.

Codex said:

A & O isn't going to increase our magic to such a degree unless we have a ton of excess magic. This is a rare opportunity in which we just absorbed a ton of energy, and I'm not sure we can get this much again anytime soon. And just because Cerys has a ton of magic doesn't mean a permanent increase in magic capacity isn't immensely useful. At least, I think this is gonna level A & O more than it might level Juggernaut Wave, and the overall permanent improvements are larger.

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You misunderstand.
I do not want to level Juggernaut Wave. I want to control its damage.

Plus, the mere act of destroying all those artifacts already counts as training for A&O.

Additionally,

Rukia said:

There is more here than you could possibly destroy in a single day, but by the time Karen indicated you should stop, you have made significant progress.

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We can probably get one more supercharge. I want to spend this one on the thing that needs it the most, which is our barely controllable armykiller in my opinion.

Naron said:

You misunderstand.
I do not want to level Juggernaut Wave. I want to control its damage.

Plus, the mere act of destroying all those artifacts already counts as training for A&O.

Additionally,

We can probably get one more supercharge. I want to spend this one on the thing that needs it the most, which is our barely controllable armykiller in my opinion.

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And you think using the immensely large amount of excess energy inside of us from absorbing all these artifacts to use a Juggernaut Wave is gonna help us CONTROL it?

If anything I expect the Juggernaut Wave to not only demolish whatever Karen tells us to, but to overreach to the extent that the wave destroys the entire surrounding area too. The excess energy isn't exactly gonna help us control an indiscriminate wave of pure energy.

Codex said:

And you think using the immensely large amount of excess energy inside of us from absorbing all these artifacts to use a Juggernaut Wave is gonna help us CONTROL it?

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...
Take note of how I put emphasis on the fact that lots of energy means lots of attempts to practice?
I do not want to sit around for days with this weird cycling-idea you are for, anyway; we have too little time as is.

Besides, I reiterate that Karen is not stupid; that is why my vote specifically asks her for suitable places. And she will know or at least guess that the first few attempts will overshoot, so she will direct Cerys to a place where she has lots of additional space.
I already got confirmation from Rukia that such places exist, too.

Naron said:

...
Take note of how I put emphasis on the fact that lots of energy means lots of attempts to practice?
I do not want to sit around for days with this weird cycling-idea you are for, anyway; we have too little time as is.

Besides, I reiterate that Karen is not stupid; that is why my vote specifically asks her for suitable places. And she will know or at least guess that the first few attempts will overshoot, so she will direct Cerys to a place where she has lots of additional space.
I already got confirmation from Rukia that such places exist, too.

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Yes, but what stops Cerys from practicing it normally? Why does she have to use the excess magic for this? She can train Juggernaut Wave normally, and our expenditure just changed. We can use Juggernaut Wave far more than we used to be able to, and a day's rest is enough for us to continue practicing. We don't need the excess to train Juggernaut, but using the excess to increase our total magic capacity is NOT something we can do without a large amount of excess magic.

Yes its gonna take days, but I consider that worth it. A couple levels in Alpha and Omega and a 20% increase of our magic is more than worth it. Training Juggernaut Wave is worth it too, but that's not something we need the excess to do.

This discussion will go in circles. Neither of us will change their mind, so we might as well drop it.

The reason I'm against spending several days just absorbing all this magic to bolster our reserves is - we're strapped of time.
We've already lost a week due to communning with Gaia, and there's a great deal of problems we'll need to address in the world.

Personal power (which we'll also gain when solving those problems) takes a secondary priority compared to removing the potential beachheads of the prospective demonic invasion.

[X] Naron

It may be late but here's mine.

[X] Ask Karen if she has any ideas
-[X] Ask her if willing to let you enchant weapons and armors of the enforcers, even guns and tanks would be interesting to upgrade with magic
--[X] Is there any projects or rune arrays that need magic power boosts?
---[X] Ask her to tell Una and everyone else why you are busy instead of returning to them

How about asking Karen she need the magical power for her projects like refilling defence runes to free up magic users for other projects or seeing if we can create magical from new weapons and armors if it does not explode, even upgrading Enforcers weapons and armors to the highest level would be helpful for everyone.

Hell even enchanted tanks or guns with magic resistance or firing magical lasers would be cool!

Also it would be great if we can upgrade or increase the clocktower's magical defence to its highest level since it will protect Una, HQ and Morgan in the long run.
Honesty the excess power will be very useful boost for all of Karen's projects and we might as well help others for now.

Say Rukia if we create or enchant something and it exploded, will the blowback cause us to lose control of all the excess magic we're holding inside?

[X] Naron

As neat as trying to game things with A&O is we have time limits, here. I do not want to spend the next few days so busy cycling A&O that we miss dealing with everything else that we need to do. Bring Sabrina up to speed, work with Daiyu, all those other monsters...

The revelation of magic, the War we are assured is coming, the Wars that will extend after that.

Even sweet new spells centered around abusing our affinities have to wait. Not too long, hopefully.

Jrin said:

Also it would be great if we can upgrade or increase the clocktower's magical defence to its highest level since it will protect Una, HQ and Morgan in the long run.
Honesty the excess power will be very useful boost for all of Karen's projects and we might as well help others for now.

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If we had any idea how to do any of this is would probably be worth doing. However, we kinda don't, and since we've only got a few days to use the excess in that's a long term project.

Jrin said:

How about asking Karen she need the magical power for her projects like refilling defence runes to free up magic users for other projects or seeing if we can create magical from new weapons and armors if it does not explode, even upgrading Enforcers weapons and armors to the highest level would be helpful for everyone.

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While that might work, I am doubtful.
Cerys has no idea how those runes work; just charging them up would not do much to alleviate that much of an excess because she is already a full tank of magic in comparison to everyone elses glass under normal conditions.

Sadly, Brandcraft does not exist yet. There is no unified way to make enchantments and we never even looked into it so far. There will be no "upgrading" of anything, just charging it to the brim if it even needs to be recharged.
It would be more useful to equip every enforcer capable of using it with a copy of Infinity Edge.

If you just push magic into an object, it will not magically get better/stronger/more durable or whatever else. At best, it is now an object filled with magic that will dissipate back out of it. At worst, it explodes from the charge.


But you make a point there; it does not hurt to ask.
Plus, we will have at least one more charge to spend magic on.
Slight revision:

[X] Use the excess magic to practice controlling Juggernaut Wave
-[X] Does Karen know of places that should be demolished anyway? Or a place where you can (somewhat) safely train this?
--[X] Ask her to tell Una and everyone else why you are going out instead of returning to them
--[X] Ask her if you could theoretically use that much magic to create powerful enchantments; you probably have to read up on the theory first, but that might be useful for after your next... "session" in here
-[X] Stop when you worked off most of the excess; use the rest to try your hand at swordspam (Infinity Edge: Levitate + Limitless)
--[X] Leave two copies of Infinity Edge with R&D; both to find out if they stay around indefinitely and because they might be able to make something of them

Naron said:

-[X] Stop when you worked off most of the excess; use the rest to try your hand at swordspam (Infinity Edge: Levitate + Limitless)

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About this, would it make it permanent, might as well see if we can create extra weapons for the enforcers.

Ah fair enough was hoping to rely on Crey's knowhow, still its never hurt to ask Karen since she might have something to say since we don't know enough.

Jrin said:

About this, would it make it permanent, might as well see if we can create extra weapons for the enforcers.

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That was on my list for a while, actually... there was just never a good time for it.
Ah, might as well. Adding a subvote to leave a copy or two with R&D for now, to see what they can make of it.

[X] Use the excess magic to practice controlling Juggernaut Wave
-[X] Does Karen know of places that should be demolished anyway? Or a place where you can (somewhat) safely train this?
--[X] Ask her to tell Una and everyone else why you are going out instead of returning to them
-[X] Stop when you worked off most of the excess; use the rest to try your hand at swordspam (Infinity Edge: Levitate + Limitless)

SpeckofStardust said:

"No matter how tempted I am by the prospect of Ultimate power, I will not consume any energy field bigger than my head"- Evil overlord list

...
I have failed.
And all that power is being stored were we are normally storing it isn't it?

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By the way, I think this does not count.
We did not consume one big energy field after all; we consumed a lot of smaller fields and grew our own with them.

It also does not matter where we store it; A&O breaks it down into pure magic anyway, no traces left of what it used to be.

Naron said:

The King in Yellow, maybe?

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Yeah. Very, very likely. Or at least counterpart in this settings.

Naron said:

*snip juggernaut control*

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Well, people are voting for Juggernaut control, so my plan for creation magic will not happen. But I still want to explain why the idea seemed so good to me.


First, what I hoped to achieve is not spell, but ability. Cerys have one trully conceptual ability - alpha and omega. As if grows in strength it starts to erode more and more. Given time it will erode elements so basic as concept of space and time.

What I want to get is having a foot in doors for something oposite: creation on very basic, conceptual level. It is less matter of 'wave strands of magical energy into pattern' and more 'my will be done' - backed by ennormous amount of power. It would fit perfectly with 'beginning' affinity.

Cerys should have good chance of making it work due to several factors. First, amount of energy Cerys currently have. It's not really contained. It lies in aura around her, a deep well of potential of awaiting realization. Second, belief that it is possible. On normal power level it's hard to believe something like that. Here, with this amount of power just begging for expression, that belief is much easier. Third factor lies in fact that it fits with affinity. And most importantly, the fourth: she can already do the exact opposite.

It's not matter of creating new magic. It's more a matter of developing a mirror to an action she can already do.


Now why I think it's important.

It's foot in doors for very, very interesting things. Things like creation or rebirth or modification. Cerys have aura that can scour reality clean, like painting empty of colour. If she had ability to paint on this empty canvas... well, imagine results.

On system level it should be possible to leverage it to control of effects of Alpha&Omega. On storytelling level it could be ability to conceptually control small fragment of reality, which is both completely awesome as well as being great multi-purpose tool. One that at great risk could be used for more a less everything. Even things like saving dying magical girl. Or recreating cracked elements of the Barrier. Or removing power from being that we would have to just kill otherwise.

Honestly, I'm not really feeling any of the suggestions yet.

But I've also got no ideas of my own.

DiceOfStupidity said:

snip creation

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This is all well thought-out and true.
My main reason not to go for it right now is something rather important, though: Creation, in particular over the [Beginning]-Affinity, is conceptual stuff and can get us killed at our level of Magic Control.

Once we get to greater levels of control, I am all for doing this. It would be a great counterpoint to absolute destruction... but we can not make it work right now.
Alpha and Omega in itself is something we got from a crit; we were not supposed to have it that early. We would need another crit to not cripple ourselves horribly by trying to do its opposite.


Additionally, creation is something we can not do right now. Even when it is the exact opposite of something we can do, it counts as something new. Which means we have to spend a great lot of time on it.


It is a long-term project... and I think we are not yet at the point to think about those.

[X] Find somewhere secluded and...
-[X] Work on controlling stupidly large amounts of energy. How much finesse can you manage with your most familiar spells while massively overcharged? Work on it until you either have it all under full control or the excess burns off.

[X] Ask Karen to help find somewhere secluded (like geostationary orbit) and...
-[X] Try to use energy to create, bringing imagined things into existence ("let there be light" style).