- Location
- Earth
Medium Boarding prep? costs the same and is not yet crammed down.
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
avatar11792
Et Sic Incipit
- Location
- Planet Earth, North America
So, let's see if I can hammer out a possible Stealth Fighter-Interceptor model.
25 RP - Fighter (20 BP, 5 CP) These fighters have twin-linked lascannons to attack ground and orbital targets, and can carry a couple of small bombs. Requires a spaceport for rapid launch and rearming.
Machine-spirits - (+0.5x base BP cost, -0.9x base CP cost) Make this blueprint controlled by machine spirits, making it slightly corruption resistant and reducing the load on your systems. Synergistic with Psychic shields. Can be applied to: Combat bots, vehicles, small craft, installations.
25 + 12.5 = 37.5BP, 5 - 4.5 = 0.5CP
Void Shields - (+1x base BP cost for tanks & small craft, +9x base BP cost for bots, +1x base RP to design blueprint) - Adds void shields to the object, dramatically increasing survivability. Can be applied to: Combat Bots, Vehicles, Small craft.
37.5 + 25 = 62.5BP, 0.5CP
Basic Stealth - (+0.25x base BP cost for vehicles and small craft, +0.5x base BP cost for bots, +1x base RP cost, ) Makes a unit harder to detect with both active & passive means. Can be applied to: Combat bots, vehicles, small craft.
62.5 + 6.25 = 68.75BP, 0.5CP
Gravity Weapons - (+2x base BP cost for vehicles, small craft & bots.) Arms a unit with gravity weapons, capable of ignoring armor and ripping apart enemy internals on high power, or fairly effective short-term crowd control on low power. Power-hungry and short ranged, will be improved by research. Can be applied to: Combat bots, vehicles, small craft.
FINAL: 68.75 + 50 = 118.75BP, 0.5CP
Okay, so I think I did the math right, just did one after the other.
This fighter is meant to be tough enough to survive enemy attacks, but also dish out a ludicrous amount of damage. Gravity Weapon is meant to work especially well on unshielded targets, and since most fighters and bombers aren't shielded...
Ideally we could add more features, like customizing weapons modules, power sources, etc. I'd prefer to have quad lascannons and (once we research Networked Missiles) those "small bombs" be switched to Missiles. Heck, a hard mount to carry a single plasma torpedo or plasma mine would be nice, have fighter supplement bombers in a pinch.
***
And yes, I do agree that Warp Comms next turn are pretty much it, I was planning on one research action plus various bonuses and that's it. Next turns build-a-rama for our fleet, basically.
25 RP - Fighter (20 BP, 5 CP) These fighters have twin-linked lascannons to attack ground and orbital targets, and can carry a couple of small bombs. Requires a spaceport for rapid launch and rearming.
Machine-spirits - (+0.5x base BP cost, -0.9x base CP cost) Make this blueprint controlled by machine spirits, making it slightly corruption resistant and reducing the load on your systems. Synergistic with Psychic shields. Can be applied to: Combat bots, vehicles, small craft, installations.
25 + 12.5 = 37.5BP, 5 - 4.5 = 0.5CP
Void Shields - (+1x base BP cost for tanks & small craft, +9x base BP cost for bots, +1x base RP to design blueprint) - Adds void shields to the object, dramatically increasing survivability. Can be applied to: Combat Bots, Vehicles, Small craft.
37.5 + 25 = 62.5BP, 0.5CP
Basic Stealth - (+0.25x base BP cost for vehicles and small craft, +0.5x base BP cost for bots, +1x base RP cost, ) Makes a unit harder to detect with both active & passive means. Can be applied to: Combat bots, vehicles, small craft.
62.5 + 6.25 = 68.75BP, 0.5CP
Gravity Weapons - (+2x base BP cost for vehicles, small craft & bots.) Arms a unit with gravity weapons, capable of ignoring armor and ripping apart enemy internals on high power, or fairly effective short-term crowd control on low power. Power-hungry and short ranged, will be improved by research. Can be applied to: Combat bots, vehicles, small craft.
FINAL: 68.75 + 50 = 118.75BP, 0.5CP
Okay, so I think I did the math right, just did one after the other.
This fighter is meant to be tough enough to survive enemy attacks, but also dish out a ludicrous amount of damage. Gravity Weapon is meant to work especially well on unshielded targets, and since most fighters and bombers aren't shielded...
Ideally we could add more features, like customizing weapons modules, power sources, etc. I'd prefer to have quad lascannons and (once we research Networked Missiles) those "small bombs" be switched to Missiles. Heck, a hard mount to carry a single plasma torpedo or plasma mine would be nice, have fighter supplement bombers in a pinch.
***
I understand what you're saying, and I do want to research the quest reward texts as well especially the gemstone one, but this particular turn is so close to us getting ready to leave the system that I feel we have to prioritize our last critical techs. My plan finishes intelligence coding and also does large-scale OMC, so once that's done a lot more room is opened up for more open-ended research.
That's my plan, honestly I want to build multiple of each type ideally. I would like to cash in at least one boon for getting a large amount of BP from Denva, that will allow us to build a lot more in one turn and definitely multiple ships of each type. For now I would want to only build one of the hospital cruisers, but multiple of pretty much everything else.
And yes, I do agree that Warp Comms next turn are pretty much it, I was planning on one research action plus various bonuses and that's it. Next turns build-a-rama for our fleet, basically.
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[X]Plan Delegation
-[X] Research: x2 (400+95+170)
--[X] Large-Scale organic-machine Control (75 RP)
--[X] Immaterium Understanding (200 RP)
--[X] Improved Gravity Weapons (150 RP)
--[X] Extremely Efficient Weapon Distribution (200 RP)
--[X] Design: 50 RP Advanced Technological Research Lab (500 BP, 100 CP), reduce to 13 RP by 50 Research Staff
--[X] Overflow to Faith is my Shield (Should be 27 RP)
-[X] Construction: 8820 (Spark of Ancients) + 8190 (Aetherion) + 15876 (Denva Prime w/Lift Capacity) = 32886 BP
--[X]Medium Shipyard x1 (3000 BP, Denva Primus Orbit)
--[X]Torch class Light Cruiser x3 (7150 BP, 21450 BP total)
--[X]Ember class Frigate x2 (3875 BP, 7750 BP total)
(Total cost, 32200 BP, 100+90+30 = 220 CP)
-[X]Boons:
--[X]Share Large-Scale OMC and CCR&D for 2 Boons
--[X]200 Cogitaire
--[X]200 OMC crew to run the ships
-[X] Orders: Scout surrounding systems
--[X] Detail one Torch class Cruiser each to scout the Myrris, Veytharis and Kethraxis systems, with priority to be given to preserving their vessels and returning home with information. If there are technologically advanced locals, first contact is allowed, but they are not to make any binding agreements. Nova Cannon Frigates remain with the Spark to lend their Nova Cannons in case of attack.
-[X] Anexa active action: Research
--[X] Immaterium Understanding
-[X] Victan active action: Raise Navibean
-[X] Cia Passive Psyker improvement
-[X] Gwendolyn Passive learning action
[X][name] Aurora
A somewhat different plan, because no one else is taking advantage of ships and an order action to scout things. It's probably overly paranoid, but honestly, we have three systems right next to Denva that we know very little about. So, use some off the shelf ships to check them out while researching some potentially transformative techs for next turns shipbuilding spree. In those OMC crew are going to be extremely useful, as they'll basically allow Vita to scout multiple systems at the same time. And yes, there is a risk to doing this before Warp Comms, but they're only one system away, and I really do think doing Immaterium first will pay dividends.
-[X] Research: x2 (400+95+170)
--[X] Large-Scale organic-machine Control (75 RP)
--[X] Immaterium Understanding (200 RP)
--[X] Improved Gravity Weapons (150 RP)
--[X] Extremely Efficient Weapon Distribution (200 RP)
--[X] Design: 50 RP Advanced Technological Research Lab (500 BP, 100 CP), reduce to 13 RP by 50 Research Staff
--[X] Overflow to Faith is my Shield (Should be 27 RP)
-[X] Construction: 8820 (Spark of Ancients) + 8190 (Aetherion) + 15876 (Denva Prime w/Lift Capacity) = 32886 BP
--[X]Medium Shipyard x1 (3000 BP, Denva Primus Orbit)
--[X]Torch class Light Cruiser x3 (7150 BP, 21450 BP total)
--[X]Ember class Frigate x2 (3875 BP, 7750 BP total)
(Total cost, 32200 BP, 100+90+30 = 220 CP)
-[X]Boons:
--[X]Share Large-Scale OMC and CCR&D for 2 Boons
--[X]200 Cogitaire
--[X]200 OMC crew to run the ships
-[X] Orders: Scout surrounding systems
--[X] Detail one Torch class Cruiser each to scout the Myrris, Veytharis and Kethraxis systems, with priority to be given to preserving their vessels and returning home with information. If there are technologically advanced locals, first contact is allowed, but they are not to make any binding agreements. Nova Cannon Frigates remain with the Spark to lend their Nova Cannons in case of attack.
-[X] Anexa active action: Research
--[X] Immaterium Understanding
-[X] Victan active action: Raise Navibean
-[X] Cia Passive Psyker improvement
-[X] Gwendolyn Passive learning action
[X][name] Aurora
A somewhat different plan, because no one else is taking advantage of ships and an order action to scout things. It's probably overly paranoid, but honestly, we have three systems right next to Denva that we know very little about. So, use some off the shelf ships to check them out while researching some potentially transformative techs for next turns shipbuilding spree. In those OMC crew are going to be extremely useful, as they'll basically allow Vita to scout multiple systems at the same time. And yes, there is a risk to doing this before Warp Comms, but they're only one system away, and I really do think doing Immaterium first will pay dividends.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Plan: Communicating The Plot
[x] Plan: Finding The Plot
[X][name] Eos
[X][name] Iris
I think "Communicating The Plot" might be my favored plan between the two I made now, lol.
ANYWAYS!
New plan changes to Plan: Finding The Plot and especially Plan: Communicating The Plot just dropped. In both plans, focused the Diplomacy action in response to @Haganeko 's critique:
Made some updates to the plan summaries, as well:
[x] Plan: Finding The Plot
[X][name] Eos
[X][name] Iris
I think "Communicating The Plot" might be my favored plan between the two I made now, lol.
ANYWAYS!
New plan changes to Plan: Finding The Plot and especially Plan: Communicating The Plot just dropped. In both plans, focused the Diplomacy action in response to @Haganeko 's critique:
Made some updates to the plan summaries, as well:
The most significant changes are to the "Communicating" variant. As I suggested earlier, I rejiggered the research so I could get both warp comms prereqs by dropping faith and improved passive stealth:
And then compensated for not having faith by changing the construction plan to focus more on shield build-out:
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
...Made another update, because I realized something:
Our navigator is really interested in whatever is going on with Gwen, so I've edited the "raise the navigator" action to include her on the seed action. Something interesting may fall out of that, I feel.
Our navigator is really interested in whatever is going on with Gwen, so I've edited the "raise the navigator" action to include her on the seed action. Something interesting may fall out of that, I feel.
Outside a carrier context, this is interesting, though I wouldn't use it as an interceptor. Grav weapons seem likely to be worse than conventional weapons against enemy strike craft at their current level. (Small craft don't pack a lot of armor, and range is valuable.)
They might mean it can strafe starships effectively though.
In a carrier context, by your calculation, it needs to replace six more basic fighters. I don't see any chance it would be worth it.
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avatar11792
Et Sic Incipit
- Location
- Planet Earth, North America
Okay then, makes sense. Its more of an antiship strafer/raider type for now. I guess once we do Improved Grav Weapons it'll have more range and be a bit more useful.
Would it be a decent Interceptor without Grav Weapons? What do you think we'd need for an Interceptor type?
For a carrier craft, my first choice is psy shields and nothing else - maximizing the number of expendable weapon platforms. My second choice is adding void shields - I am not confident one void shield fighter is worth two without, but it might be. (For a boarding shuttle, if we design one, I would probably spring for shields.)
For a ground-based interceptor the carrier design is okay-ish but your design minus the gravity weapons seems better to me. Except you should add psy shields (one time RP investment for performance gain) and maybe specify one ply as veil since it complements the stealth.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] Plan: Vallkar Be Friends, Baby Be Growing, Mark Quattro
[X] Navigator Name: Nyra
This for now. Today was a bad day and something inside me failed so I am a mess. May vote again tomorrow, but I'm not sure so this for now.
[X] Navigator Name: Nyra
This for now. Today was a bad day and something inside me failed so I am a mess. May vote again tomorrow, but I'm not sure so this for now.
avatar11792
Et Sic Incipit
- Location
- Planet Earth, North America
Try this again.
Wasp-class Fighter (Anti-Bomber - Space)
25 RP - Fighter (20 BP, 5 CP) These fighters have twin-linked lascannons to attack ground and orbital targets, and can carry a couple of small bombs. Requires a spaceport for rapid launch and rearming.
- Machine-spirits - (+0.5x base BP cost, -0.9x base CP cost) 20 + 10 = 30BP, 5 - 4.5 = 0.5CP
- Void Shields - (+1x base BP cost for tanks & small craft, +1x base RP to design blueprint) 30 + 20 = 50BP, 0.5CP, 25 + 25 = 50RP
- Basic Stealth - (+0.25x base BP cost for vehicles and small craft, +1x base RP cost) 50 + 5 = 55BP, 0.5CP, 50 + 25 = 75RP
- Gravity Weapons - (+2x base BP cost for vehicles, small craft & bots.) 55 + 40 = 95BP, 0.5CP, 75RP
FINAL COST: 95BP, 0.5CP, 75RP
Application: The original fighter design I made, only I fixed all the math (finally getting the hang of it!). This is for close-range attacks on bombers and other unshielded unarmored targets. Honestly, currently not very useful, but one we do Improved Gravity Weapons, it'll have significantly more range and be cheaper to build.
Typhoon-class Fighter (Interceptor - Space)
- 25 RP - Fighter (20 BP, 5 CP) These fighters have twin-linked lascannons to attack ground and orbital targets, and can carry a couple of small bombs. Requires a spaceport for rapid launch and rearming.
- Machine-spirits - (+0.5x base BP cost, -0.9x base CP cost) 20 + 10 = 30BP, 5 - 4.5 = 0.5CP
- Void Shields - (+1x base BP cost for tanks & small craft, +1x base RP to design blueprint) 30 + 20 = 50BP, 0.5CP, 25 + 25 = 50RP
- Basic Stealth - (+0.25x base BP cost for vehicles and small craft, +1x base RP cost) 50 + 5 = 55BP, 0.5CP, 50RP + 25RP = 75RP
FINAL COST: 55BP, 0.5CP, 75RP
Application: The Space Interceptor I originally wanted to make. This is geared towards intercepting and destroying other enemy fighters in space. No Gravity Weapons, but Void Shields are still needed to increase survivability.
Zephyr-class Fighter (Interceptor - Ground)
- 25 RP - Fighter (20 BP, 5 CP) These fighters have twin-linked lascannons to attack ground and orbital targets, and can carry a couple of small bombs. Requires a spaceport for rapid launch and rearming.
- Machine-spirits - (+0.5x base BP cost, -0.9x base CP cost) 25 + 12.5 = 37.5BP, 5 - 4.5 = 0.5CP
- Void Shields - (+1x base BP cost for tanks & small craft, +1x base RP to design blueprint) 37.5 + 25 = 62.5BP, 0.5CP
FINAL: 68.75 + 50 = 118.75BP, 0.5CP
Application: An Interceptor, but for use on ground/planets. Took out the basic stealth, not really needed in such a role, but again hoping for survivability with Void Shields.
I am much more fixated on craft as loads for starships, for which I don't like any of those due to the cost. I don't see one Typhoon beating three entry-level fighters. For fighters flown off ground bases, sure.
Except, I really would prefer they have psy shields. Machine spirits mean leaving them off isn't completely unreasonable, but we have the option.
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avatar11792
Et Sic Incipit
- Location
- Planet Earth, North America
Yeah, but that additional RP cost. Considering how much each and every plan fights for RP, something that pricey is just untenable.
50 RP, but discount with cogitare assistance can bring it down a lot.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This disregards that the shields also protect passengers and cargo, and that veil shields are highly desired for stealth anything, really.
There are lots of models to do, but there's a 75RP tech to cut those costs in half if we need it, and the ability to spend 10 RP to quarter the cost even without, whereas without SSDIPS the cost is too low for quartering to be a net gain.
Really really really should have shields.
I think we should do it in as many turns as possible, and that this is probably the last turn when we have the slack to do it.
Ooops. Did exactly the same thing.
My big issues with your plan are:
1. No Anexa on Intelligence Coding (hopes for AI spec)
2. RP spent on designing on a turn when you aren't building
3. No Faith is my Shield when we have a half a hundred psykers in our ship now
4. No action to get to know the Vellkar.
It does things we could do next turn (build a fleet) while neglecting something we need immediately (knowing what the Vellkar need/can provide). We only need the fleet on ther turn we leave, and waiting is actively beneficial since we can get more beneficial techs (there are plans grabbing Efficient Distro, Improved Grav Weapons...); meanwhile, every turn we spend without that information could be boon opportunities we're missing. Look how good Secundus boons have been. Also, Vita as an explorer just ignoring the possibility of getting to know a people rubs me the wrong way.
Fighters don't really do passengers and cargo, though.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oop, shows me for skimming lol.
Updated the plan with the cramming booboo.
Agreed with your posts on this.
Honestly, for parasite craft the only reason psychic shields are even worth it is they're free in bp. As you've been saying, the main thing about carrier swarms is they're supposed to be cheap, numerous, and thus attritable.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'd like to point out that my plan now succeeds on all four of these criteria. My diplo action is now far more focused on learning about the Vellkar.
In fact, both variants pass provided you consider diverting all but the +crew compartment to shielding upgrades as an acceptable substitute for Faith.
Give them a reread, the updates have been pretty substantial.
