Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
There's the thing this is fine but when her daughter started manifesting talents and she knew what that was and then said nothing and got no help she started fucking up the fact that it took 3 years for that fuck up to manifest in real ways is a miracle.
The minute that her daughter started manifesting magical talents and she knew that she wasn't going to be able to get her to stop is the second her as a parent a responsibilities as someone's mother take complete priority over any phobia.
That's when you go to your husband a sword of the Cross and ask if the church has any wizards they can spare or has any people that are willing to teach and understand the rules of magic in relation to God or anything not cower in fear.
A significant amount of that is her fault by the way the fact her daughter was taken up by essentially a warlock that completely disappeared later is partially her fault that's not even a question of blame. In fact Molly doesn't have a magical education despite her husband Michael running around with a wizard who has helped the her husband a sword of the Cross and The Wizard is holding one of the swords and she just never bothered to get her daughter any level of education is yet again partially her fault.
Michael also shares fault at a level there because at a certain point if your partner is like compromised on a certain level you have to take up the slack but still so it does nothing to actually prove her worries Justified because she facilitated the situation in the first place.
Honestly in the way of resources it's whatever even if she had exactly zero in the way of resources Michael and Harry talk and if she doesn't know the rules of magic I'd eat my hat the fact that she didn't tell her daughter any of that shit before she got in trouble is kind of condemning a little bit.
Then she meets stubbornness with stubbornness the one route that isn't going to work with the children ever because children have no need to be reasonable have no want to be reasonable. Which is a recurring theme throughout the relationship the reason they don't get along is because they're too similar but someone bears a responsibility of looking out for the other and it shouldn't be the kid at this point.
Molly makes the full-on decision to leave home at 17 not having gotten her GED not having a job no money she decides full on to leave home because her relationship with her mother is that bad I can't countenance a person who would let a relationship with their child deteriorate in such a severe manner. Molly may love her family but no one in her family has resentment right next to her love like her mother does.
We all have to live with our decisions and to be honest if we never have a real conversation with Charity again about our capabilities it'll be too soon. I want to be a wish granter I want to know magic I want to cast Fireball at random gribbles in the night I don't want to have to tell charity that we can do any of those things because it's obviously fucking a massive point of friction in our relationship.
When instead we could stick to niceties and have a working relationship that isn't irritating for everyone involved.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
I didn't say that. I said she didn't have much in the way of resources. The most she could have done in that respect was ask Micheal to reach out and hope that a trust worthy Wizard takes her on as an apprentice.
- Location
- washington
Good good. Does molly think the council would be at all open to use making them shit in return for a slight surplus of materials? Basically they give us stuff we make stuff for them and we get a little more to make ourself stuff?
Maybe, but it depends on how deep their pockets are when it comes to the kind of stuff that can be turned into splendors, especially if they are using it for something else at the moment.
Good night guys, see you in the morning.
- Location
- washington
I mean I didn't expect deep treasure troves. Just enough to make half a dozen things due to the thousand years of hoarding shit people do. Also whatever personal shit individual wizards have they can give to us in exchange for making something.
- Location
- Brazil
And this is a small resource? Michael, the one who killed a True Dragon, Knight of the Cross, full of contacts in the Church, people he saved and at least respect from the neutral and good part of the supernaturals?
No one cares if Charity personally could or could not help, she had phobias and trauma, great, we understand that, so as a mother, she should have sought help from people without these problems like her own husband or the part of the church that deals with magic that she should know exists and can be contacted to help her daughter.
And don't get into a fucking stubbornness contest with her daughter since, even if Canon Molly wasn't terribly similar to herself, that approach never goes well with teenagers.
I blame her because it is her responsibility between the two of them to be the adult and try to take care of the canon Molly situation in the best way possible, no matter what, not Molly, as a child, to be the better person and give in just to please her mother and prevent further discussion.
Which is what we did here in the quest, we, unaffected people, understood OOC information about Charity and sympathized with her, giving her several chances, where Molly seemed ready to explode. So much so that my patience with her ran out in the middle of Harry's prison arc because I felt that I had given her too many chances and began to consider her something quite irritating outside of the normal life antics.
So my problem became that IC likes her in the normal parts, I really loved that part where Molly still had the cold touch and she told the younger ones not to point it out so as not to hurt Molly's feelings, but OCC I really hate that Molly explains her powers and she gets 20 more fucking successes for us to accept the promise of restriction, this really irritates me as a player and with the knowledge that we will continue to bend to her with the excuses of many people "She's a mother, she's just worried, don't exaggerate" etc.
And I'm leaving this here, you can answer if you want but I won't talk about it anymore.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Yeah I specifically said that Charity's approach wasn't rational or ideal you don't need to rant to explain it to me and yes obviously Micheal shares some of the blame, Molly has two parents not one. Her fear is/was justified, if your child is coming into magic in the Dresden Files setting they get a huge target painted on their back from Vampires to cultist along with the possibility of going warlock just from not being careful with it.
And even if you are the recent Arc with the White Council and the mind controlled people that were sent after Merlin are a good example of what may happen to you for getting involved with magic even if your doing everything right.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
I don't even know why you bothered. If you didn't want to get involved in the conversation, as you said, you shouldn't have ranted about for paragraphs. I'll go ahead and tell you what I told Degorium, her approach wasn't rational or ideal. You don't need to explain that to me, I'm aware. I just don't want to see the character demonized or have people saying that she's such a problem that we need to run away from home and give up Angelic protections at the first opportunity.
Edit: Also humans need to learn how to do magic from humans. Only a wizard would have worked.
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boo600
Ego sum egredietur tempestas.
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- He/Him/Hungry
And it's great that she's adapting, and I will agree that a lot of the things that made me grind my teeth were earlier (especially at the point where Molly almost left) - although I can't help but notice how much we get done out of sight, out of mind.
But she had decades before Molly became a wizard to prepare and heal, and didn't really manage in time. She's not exactly proactive, and she's still the character who tried to protect Molly from 'that awful music' and other such things outside of her bubble. Even if she's getting better, that doesn't mean I want to be around for it, you know? Everyone has a different tolerance for different kinds of bullshit, and mine for parents acting in certain ways is very low.
This is much more interesting. If we could make something similar to the Red Owl for the Merlin, that would help deal with the possibility of further Peabody-style problems, and give us some goodwill.
Add in Harry getting Essence and learning to talk to people via Lash and the Merlin having an interest in him, and our position of 'valued ally' should become pretty much ironclad.
Thank you for this, and that goes for everyone else talking about this. Even if we're not leaving the Angel-warded house, it's nice to know I'm not alone in seeing things this way.
It's not really demonization. She has her traumas and reasons, and she still used her Faith to march straight into the Nevernever to rescue Molly. But, even after that, Canon!Molly wanted to Not Go Home, and that was for a reason. Saying that she was being dramatic or that her feelings somehow didn't matter because her mother loved her is one of the big problems I have with how we look at children and teenagers. Yes, parents have to set down rules and make unpopular decisions sometimes - but no, that doesn't mean that their kids aren't real people, who have thoughts and feelings that matter. Charity denied a key part of who Molly was (magic), and (for example) objected to the types of music and clothing she liked. That's not to say that Molly is blameless, but as a character with agency, it makes sense that she wouldn't want to be under the power of someone restricting her life that way. That she fucked up with magic (because she didn't know the laws, and was trying to help her friend - someone in a horrifying situation) doesn't invalidate the fact that she didn't feel she could go to her parents for help.
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Okay no one please don't call me just posting a reply to your comment to me a rant this is typed out content just say it's too long or whatever but rant makes it seem like I'm angry or going off. I will admit I'm pretty long-winded or whatever the digital equivalent of that is sometimes so I don't mind that but rant is like kind of dismissive for no reason. On to the actual point.
20,000 people died straight up in Chicago 20,000 non-magical people killed and thousands upon thousands more injured in a single night forgive me if I don't particularly care for the idea that being non-magical is in any way of protection from the magical world of Dresden Files. It's a lie that she's very purposely telling herself. Her husband doesn't have magic didn't have it before he took up the sword doesn't have it even with the sword and when he puts down the sword he won't even have that anymore.
The idea that being a mortal person exempts you from the danger of the world is a lie an obvious fallacy meant to cuddle a woman so traumatized that she cannot look past her own nose. The reds don't care about someone being mortal they just won't obviously kill them if they're mortal they will still kill them and drain their blood they just won't do it in an obviously Supernatural fashion. The fomori do not care in the same way. Neither do the Jades Blacks or the whites.
There is no protection in ignorance only slight surprise in how you die rather than not dying. Being mind controlled in the white council is not even the top 100 worst Fates that are even potentially possible and most of them are more likely by being someone with magic but no education (Ie. Charity). Which is a situation she's specifically facilitated so if it's at all about Molly safety then she's just wrong on all levels in character and out.
Edit: thought 30,000 was too high it was 20,000 with a couple of thousand more injured not 30,000 dead.
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- Location
- washington
You know this is like the most risky and obviously we shouldn't do it idea I've had. But demonreach is basically a treasure trove for an exalted I don't really have a moral quandary of killing the things inside it while we hold them down with the islands power. I just think there are so many ways it could go bad. Also some of those thing in like level 4 or 5 security might be important for realities stability if we are being honest despite being trapped. I wouldn't mind turning the shit on lowest level security into splendors though.
- Location
- washington
In fairness charity while a full talent was a magical neophyte with an attitude that can be surmised as pray the gay away towards magic. She definitely doesn't know how magic inheritance works beyond the reasonable assumption it likely passes through bloodlines to some degree.
boo600
Ego sum egredietur tempestas.
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- He/Him/Hungry
I mean, I'd love to see what we could do using a 'living ley line' like a Naagloshi, but Molly wants to redeem them if possible, and Alfred is likely to object to us futzing with the system. Any plan that figures out a way to splendorize the Doomsday Monsters has my vote, but I'm not sure how we could (and even broaching the subject to Harry has issues, given how… ghoulish the idea may be.
It's the 'pray the gay away' attitude that I can't stand. The other stuff, ok, if exacerbated by how Molly is legally supposed to stay with her parents. But her reaction to magic, even if based in trauma, is (if 'not very') abusive, and I'm frustrated whenever the child has to 'be the bigger person, because she's your mother.' It's an attitude that lets more serious shit slide, and it gets worse whenever they also have Totally Genuine Loving Care to hold over your head. Even if she's getting better, I just don't like it when she shows up.
Again, not a common issue, and hopefully the dice will stop favoring her whenever she has a freakout. But it's nice to see it said.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Please keep in mind that tone does not carry well over text. The multitudes of paragraphs you saw fit to write on this in response to my much shorter post along with some of the language used gave me the impression that you were emotionally invested, which resulted in a rant from you. If that isn't the case please keep the first sentence in mind, a lack a brevity can imply things.
I didn't say it was. I said that getting involved with magic makes you a target to a variety of interested parties and opens you up to new forms of danger, including from your own magic, which justifies a level of fear over a child coming into it. What I've stated are simply facts, not really talking points. You can argue about the pros and cons of it but that's not what I'm saying.
Okay though I never said that either. Sorry if you read that implication from my postings.
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boo600
Ego sum egredietur tempestas.
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- He/Him/Hungry
Thank you for the apology, careful civility, and clear communication. I'm also having issues with what I'm posting; I don't want to project, or make a bigger deal of this than it is, and I certainly don't want to start a fight. It's comforting that I'm not the only one.
As it is, I don't want to trauma dump, partially because this isn't a therapy thread, and partially because my own issues involve people downplaying things. But you criticized the idea that Charity's behavior isn't acceptable - that a mother 'could do anything really wrong, and besides, she's trying isn't she?' - and that's one of the cores of my issues.
I was attempting (and hopefully successfully) to critique the specific idea that, since she genuinely loves Molly, that means what she has done that's negative (not accusing her of physically/sexually abusing Molly) is somehow fine, or that it means Molly should suck it up and forgive Charity while she still has power over Molly - power that she can and will exercise. I don't agree that saying Charity is a problem is demonizing her - merely stating a fact. (And I believe that Molly will be making her own bases anyways; the Carpenter house isn't forever.) That's part of why I've been repeatedly stating that my view on Charity is based on this being a quest, and my not enjoying the quest when she's on screen due to my own viewpoint - I don't want to start a debate about how awful she is, although I suppose I may have, anyways. I'm sorry if I've caused you any trouble in enjoying this quest for the moment, even if it is minor.
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- Location
- washington
I mean in fairness a warden can let out certain things or anything's possibly. There's a reason so many of them tried to bargain with harry in canon except the one dude (who word of god is neither King Arthur or Merlin) who told harry to fuck off.
Minimum security is naagloshii I imagine 4 and 5 to be powerful dark gods, things on that level and shit that makes mab look like a bitch on the magical level. Also you know in wog I think butcher has described demonreaches power basically as it depends on the location at the core it's basically yes if one knows how to use the defenses further out it basically become non existent. I mean keep in mind what harry pulled out in cold days was him not knowing how to use the defenses well.
Another thing to think about I'm fairly sure demonreach has temporal defenses and can literally lock down something stupidly quick especially if it's just a naagloshi and in the heart of their power. Now dark gods and shit let's not touch that period by minimum level security is stuff Molly could reasonably actually beat in a fight. Not that I think we'd ever do this but a more game minded player might farm the lower level shit in demonreach.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Nah your good. The point of my own postings isn't to say that her actions were acceptable somehow but that they're understandable to the point that they aren't unacceptable enough to be worth giving up the benefits of the Carpenter household for and possibly causing more long-term friction with the rest of Molly's family that still lives in the house if she leaves on bad terms. I described Charity's perspective, as I see it, in detail for this reason. Along with extenuating the fact that she doesn't get much screentime as is and doesn't restrict player agency.
Also I didn't mean to say that people are demonizing her right now I've just seen this sort of thing before elsewhere and it sometimes gets to that point so this was an attempt to curtail that.
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boo600
Ego sum egredietur tempestas.
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- He/Him/Hungry
And then there's how easily Alfred overwhelmed Ethniu once she got in range!
…I wonder what it takes to make Olympian Bronze? Bronze works for actually making ourself armor.
Thank you. With how often people disparage 'arguments on the internet' (with justified examples), I tremendously enjoy it when I can talk about something I'm invested in with reasonable, logical people who disagree with me respectfully and kindly. This is lovely.
I (personally) like the idea of leaving sooner rather than later, because Dealing With Parental Issues is specifically Unfun for me, and I think we'll have to get cracking on building our own base sooner or later. Still, I suppose it'd be nice if Tiffany could chip in with some Strengthen Wards/Craft action, or if we had more allies - as well as finally getting around to collecting that dragon hoard/corpse for crafting protections for our new doom fortress.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Uh, I just noticed but I think that
-[X] Tiffany, 11 XP spent, 2 banked
--[X] Wits 4 dots, 1 XP
--[X] Perception 4 dots, 1 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
-[X] Olivia, 12 XP spent, 1 banked
--[X] Manipulation 2 dots, 1 XP
--[X] Perception 5 dots, 1 XP
--[X] Intelligence 4, 1 XP
--[X] Mana Manipulation Ritual: Infusion, 0 XP
--[X] Mana Manipulation Ritual: Shape Mana, 0 XP
--[X] Clairvoyance 3, 6 XP
--[X] Fortune path 1, 4 XP
Olivia spent 13, not 12, and I think Tiffany's purchase got left off, because 6 xp disappeared.
-[X] Tiffany, 11 XP spent, 2 banked
--[X] Wits 4 dots, 1 XP
--[X] Perception 4 dots, 1 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
-[X] Olivia, 12 XP spent, 1 banked
--[X] Manipulation 2 dots, 1 XP
--[X] Perception 5 dots, 1 XP
--[X] Intelligence 4, 1 XP
--[X] Mana Manipulation Ritual: Infusion, 0 XP
--[X] Mana Manipulation Ritual: Shape Mana, 0 XP
--[X] Clairvoyance 3, 6 XP
--[X] Fortune path 1, 4 XP
Olivia spent 13, not 12, and I think Tiffany's purchase got left off, because 6 xp disappeared.
This is true. I tend to in back in forth use emphasised language as if I'm in verbal conversation so phrases "There the thing" while they are meant to imply a level interest it is mostly for showing focus on a particular point rather than any particular emotional investment.
As for length I just just don't find it onerous to pontificate at length and prefer to say everything I want to than I could possibly care about brevity. I don't intend to convey any particular emotional tonality with the length.
Yeah, this is very borked. I think that's because of the repeating similar lines in multiple vote sub-parts. @DragonParadox, this is the correct version: