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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Goldfish said:
Not gonna be voting for any plan that doesn't include Sandstrike Blast.
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Why do we need sandstrike blast specifically? We have long range options in the form of, well, guns, which we can carry everywhere with DPM. Yes, Molly doesn't have firearms and has athletics, but neither are favored, and 4 or 5 dice is an average human capability.

Also, looking at the next leading vote, I have to say that I am perfectly ok with it. Experimenting with MMP to make new kind(s) of vampires, and getting VEE sounds fun.
 
Yog said:
Why do we need sandstrike blast specifically? We have long range options in the form of, well, guns, which we can carry everywhere with DPM. Yes, Molly doesn't have firearms and has athletics, but neither are favored, and 4 or 5 dice is an average human capability.
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Isn't there some further penalty for using Skills without a single dot?

I think Talents without a Dot work just fine, and Knowledges are impossible to use without one, with Skills being somewhere in the middle?

Edit: Yeah.
Skills are Abilities learned through training, apprenticeships, or other instruction. If you try to perform an action involving a Skill in which you have no rating, your difficulty is increased by one. An unskilled worker just isn't as effective as someone who might have lower Attributes but a better understanding of what the procedure entails.
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Artemis1992 said:
Isn't there some further penalty for using Skills without a single dot?

I think Talents without a Dot work just fine, and Knowledges are impossible to use without one, with Skills being somewhere in the middle?

Edit: Yeah.
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Where is this quote from? In E2 at least, Exalts are specifically exempt from the penalties of using abilities at 0 dots (E2 core, page 106):
Unlike Attributes and Virtues, Abilities are traits that
a character has deliberately practiced or studied. All Abil
ity scores start at 0 dots. Un-Exalted characters who lack all
knowledge of a particular Ability suffer a two-die penalty to all
dice pools involving that Ability and, in some cases, (such as
an illiterate character attempting to read) cannot even attempt
the task. The Exalted and other magical beings are blessed by
happenstance and intuition— they suffer no penalties when
attempting a task in which they have no Ability, though they
still cannot speak languages or command knowledge they have
not learned. Abilities are listed according to the caste with
which they are associated.
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Yog said:
Where is this quote from? In E2 at least, Exalts are specifically exempt from the penalties of using abilities at 0 dots (E2 core, page 106):
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V20, the section on Abilities, subsection on Skills. p.103

Nothing in ExWoD contradicts this, so I assume it counts, as V20 is the basis for most of the rules of the ExWoD game, unless explicitly changed like the Multi-Action Rules.
 
Artemis1992 said:
V20, the section on Abilities, subsection on Skills. p.103

Nothing in ExWoD contradicts this, so I assume it counts, as V20 is the basis for most of the rules of the ExWoD game, unless explicitly changed like the Multi-Action Rules.
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I am fairly sure that there have been rolls with 0 dots in abilities, and Molly just rolled attribute dice pool for those, with no penalties. @DragonParadox ?
 
Votes as they stand. Really hoping one of the two minion plams wins.

It opens up so much options to empower minions and makd their lives so much easier.
 
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Yzarc said:
It opens up so much options to empower minions and makd their lives so much easier.
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I agree, despite making a radically different plan. Maggot Mana Plague opens a lot of political possibilities, both for white court (Isabela), and red court (I am unsure and curious about what would happen if we feed it to a half-red). VEE has a ton of possibilities, including being required if we want to get Daniel solar exaltation (and I really want to). Suffice to say, if that plan wins, I'd also be happy.
 
Since thankfully no one voted for me by name, and everyone is voting by plan name (thank you very, very much for that!), I think I'll switch my own vote from my plan to
[X]Plan taking over the red court

It offers enticing possibilities, and I can campaign for Proxy Servant Protocol next turn. Don't take me wrong - I still like my own plan. This is a vote for shinies, essentially, oh so enticing shinies.
 
In the absence of big votes with the reality cracking perfect defense (which is understandable due to cost even if I would love to have it), I am going to put out a vote for the anti-organization charm:

[X]Plan taking over the red court

Endless torment emanation is a war decider, and we are at war.

And as fictionfan pointed out in their explanation of the plan, this charm also works for when we are fighting, as combat as a member of an organization is acting for its benefit, and thus cursed.
 
Nyarky said:
big votes with the reality cracking perfect defense (which is understandable due to cost even if I would love to have it), I am going to put out a vote for the anti-organization charm:
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Well the undying has the reality cracker Perfect Defense even if it's not in the running at the moment there's no reason not to approval vote it. You might just be surprised.
 
Votes are very close.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Nov 19, 2024 at 6:16 AM, finished with 201 posts and 21 votes.
  • [X] Plan Thousand Correct Violent Actions
    -[X] Molly, 48 XP spent 1 banked
    --[X] Awakened Eye of the Dragon, 10 XP
    --[X] False Springs Beckon, 9 XP
    --[X] Proxy Servant Protocol, 8 XP
    --[X] By Rage Recast: Extra Limbs, 6 XP
    --[X] Violence is Worship, 9 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
    --[X] Politics 1 dot, 3 XP
    --[X] Ask Tiffany to raise physical stats to 5
    -[X] Lydia, 13 XP spent
    --[X] Counterspell: Fae, 3 XP
    --[X] Charisma 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Manipulation 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Appearance 4 dots, 0 XP
    --[X] Perception 3 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Intelligence 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Wits 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Occult 2 dots, 2 XP
    --[X] Ox-Body, 3 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 11 XP spent, 2 banked
    --[X] Wits 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Perception 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
    -[X] Olivia, 13 XP spent
    --[X] Manipulation 2 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Perception 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Mana Manipulation Ritual: Infusion, 2 XP
    --[X] Mana Manipulation Ritual: Shape Mana, 3 XP
    --[X] Clairvoyance 3, 6 XP
    [X]Plan taking over the red court
    -[X]Molly 49 XP
    --[X]False Hope Spring 9XP
    --[X]Endless Torment Emanation 12 Xp
    --[X] Verdant Emptiness Endowment, 20 XP
    --[X]Maggot Mana Plague (••) 8 Xp
    --[X] Ask Tiffany to raise physical stats to 5
    -[X] Lydia, 13 XP spent
    --[X] Counterspell: Fae, 3 XP
    --[X] Charisma 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Manipulation 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Appearance 4 dots, 0 XP
    --[X] Perception 3 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Intelligence 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Wits 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Occult 2 dots, 2 XP
    --[X] Ox-Body, 3 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 11 XP spent, 2 banked
    --[X] Wits 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Perception 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
    -[X] Olivia, 13 XP spent
    --[X] Manipulation 2 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Perception 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Mana Manipulation Ritual: Infusion, 2 XP
    --[X] Mana Manipulation Ritual: Shape Mana, 3 XP
    --[X] Clairvoyance, 6 XP
    [X] Plan Minion Protection
    -[X] Molly, 49 XP spent
    --[X] False Springs Beckon, 9 XP
    --[X] Mana Maggot Plague 8 XP
    --[X] Cleansed Maggot Formula 4 XP
    --[X] Verdant Emptiness Endowment, 20 XP
    --[X] Finance 1, 3 XP
    --[X] Politics 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Ask Tiffany to raise physical stats to 5
    -[X] Lydia, 13 XP spent
    --[X] Counterspell: Fae, 3 XP
    --[X] Charisma 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Manipulation 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Appearance 4 dots, 0 XP
    --[X] Perception 3 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Intelligence 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Wits 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Occult 2 dots, 2 XP
    --[X] Ox-Body, 3 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 11 XP spent, 2 banked
    --[X] Wits 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Perception 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
    -[X] Olivia, 11 XP spent 1 banked
    --[X] Manipulation 2 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Perception 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Intelligence 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Expression 2 dots, 2 XP
    --[X] Vampire Counterspell, 3 XP
    --[X] Spirit Counterspell, 3 XP
    [X] Plan The Undying
    -[X] Molly, 49 XP spent
    --[X] False Springs Beckon, 9 XP
    --[x] Ablation Of Brass and Fire, 12 XP
    --[x] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Ox-Body, 3 XP
    --[x] Mind Over Matter, 3 XP
    --[x] Heavy Coagulant, 1 XP
    --[x] Greater Asprin, 1 XP
    --[x] High Kevlar, 1 XP
    --[X] Ask Tiffany to raise physical stats to 5
    -[X] Lydia, 13 XP spent
    --[X] Counterspell: Fae, 3 XP
    --[X] Charisma 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Manipulation 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Appearance 4 dots, 0 XP
    --[X] Perception 3 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Intelligence 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Wits 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Occult 2 dots, 2 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 11 XP spent, 2 banked
    --[X] Wits 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Perception 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
    -[X] Olivia, 11 XP spent 1 banked
    --[X] Manipulation 2 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Perception 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Intelligence 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Expression 2 dots, 2 XP
    --[X] Vampire Counterspell, 3 XP
    --[X] Spirit Counterspell, 3 XP
    [X] Plan Sorcerous Might
    -[X] Molly, 48 XP spent 1 banked
    --[X] Alchemy 5, 12 XP
    --[X] False Springs Beckon, 9 XP
    --[X] Mana Manipulation, 7 XP
    --[X] Wits 4, 1 XP
    --[X] Craft 5, 4 XP
    --[X] Gemstone Bone Ossification, 4 XP
    --[X] Fortifying Ink, 3 XP
    --[X] Transcendent Capacity Solution, 4 XP
    --[X] Digital Possessions Management, 4 XP
    --[X] Ask Tiffany to raise physical stats to 5
    -[X] Lydia, 13 XP spent
    --[X] Counterspell: Fae, 3 XP
    --[X] Charisma 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Manipulation 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Appearance 4 dots, 0 XP
    --[X] Perception 3 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Intelligence 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Wits 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Occult 2 dots, 2 XP
    --[X] Ox-Body, 3 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 11 XP spent, 2 banked
    --[X] Wits 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Perception 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
    -[X] Olivia, 11 XP spent 1 banked
    --[X] Manipulation 2 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Perception 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Intelligence 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Expression 2 dots, 2 XP
    --[X] Vampire Counterspell, 3 XP
    --[X] Spirit Counterspell, 3 XP
    [X] Plan Ancient Magic
    -[X] Molly, 49 XP spent
    --[X] Pentacle And Scepter 16 XP
    --[X] False Springs Beckon, 9 XP
    --[X] Ox-Body, 3 XP
    --[X] Awareness Excellency, 4 XP
    --[X] Technology Excellency, 4 XP
    --[X] Invulnerable Skin of Bronze, 10 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
    --[X] Ask Tiffany to raise physical stats to 5
    -[X] Lydia, 13 XP spent
    --[X] Counterspell: Fae, 3 XP
    --[X] Charisma 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Manipulation 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Appearance 4 dots, 0 XP
    --[X] Perception 3 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Intelligence 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Wits 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Occult 2 dots, 2 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 11 XP spent, 2 banked
    --[X] Wits 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Perception 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
    -[X] Olivia, 11 XP spent 1 banked
    --[X] Manipulation 2 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Perception 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Intelligence 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Expression 2 dots, 2 XP
    --[X] Vampire Counterspell, 3 XP
    --[X] Spirit Counterspell, 3 XP
    [X] Plan Thousand Correct Politically Evasive Actions
    -[X] Molly, 49 XP spent
    --[X] Awakened Eye of the Dragon, 10 XP
    --[X] False Springs Beckon, 9 XP
    --[X] Treading the Golden Path, 4 XP
    --[X] Proxy Servant Protocol, 8 XP
    --[X] By Rage Recast: Extra Limbs, 6 XP
    --[X] Bloodless Murk Evasion, 6 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
    --[X] Politics 1 dot, 3 XP
    --[X] Ask Tiffany to raise physical stats to 5
    -[X] Lydia, 13 XP spent
    --[X] Counterspell: Fae, 3 XP
    --[X] Charisma 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Manipulation 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Appearance 4 dots, 0 XP
    --[X] Perception 3 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Intelligence 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Wits 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Occult 2 dots, 2 XP
    --[X] Ox-Body, 3 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 11 XP spent, 2 banked
    --[X] Wits 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Perception 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
    -[X] Olivia, 13 XP spent
    --[X] Manipulation 2 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Perception 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Mana Manipulation Ritual: Infusion, 2 XP
    --[X] Mana Manipulation Ritual: Shape Mana, 3 XP
    --[X] Clairvoyance, 6 XP
    [X] Plan Balanced Approach
    -[X] Molly, 49 XP spent
    --[X] Alchemy 5, 12 XP
    --[X] False Springs Beckon, 9 XP
    --[x] Ablation Of Brass and Fire, 12 XP
    --[X] Wits 4, 1 XP
    --[X] Craft 5, 4 XP
    --[X] Gemstone Bone Ossification, 4 XP
    --[X] Digital Possessions Management, 4 XP
    --[X] Ox-Body, 3 XP
    --[X] Ask Tiffany to raise physical stats to 5
    -[X] Lydia, 13 XP spent
    --[X] Counterspell: Fae, 3 XP
    --[X] Charisma 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Manipulation 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Appearance 4 dots, 0 XP
    --[X] Perception 3 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Intelligence 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Wits 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Occult 2 dots, 2 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 11 XP spent, 2 banked
    --[X] Wits 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Perception 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
    -[X] Olivia, 11 XP spent 1 banked
    --[X] Manipulation 2 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Perception 5 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Intelligence 4 dots, 1 XP
    --[X] Expression 2 dots, 2 XP
    --[X] Vampire Counterspell, 3 XP
    --[X] Spirit Counterspell, 3 XP
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Aside from preference, I think I actually agree with the opinion to delay VEE on account of Charity. We really don't want to torpedo our progress in opening her to magic by almost literally becoming a soul-buying devil.
 
Mithrill said:
Aside from preference, I think I actually agree with the opinion to delay VEE on account of Charity. We really don't want to torpedo our progress in opening her to magic by almost literally becoming a soul-buying devil.
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One that's not what verdant emptiness endowment does we also don't live with Charity anymore we have our own apartment if we interact with her it's purely for our own Comfort or talking to our mom we don't need her to know about or agree with any of our abilities in any real way anymore.
 
Mithrill said:
Aside from preference, I think I actually agree with the opinion to delay VEE on account of Charity. We really don't want to torpedo our progress in opening her to magic by almost literally becoming a soul-buying devil.
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Soul Commerce is actually divested from VEE, and is likely an offshoot of Prayer Eating.
 
Yzarc said:
We can roll politics without having a dot at +1 difficulty. So it is not a must have znd if we are getting it, we need more dots.
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We don't get a +1 difficulty penalty:
Yog said:
I am fairly sure that there have been rolls with 0 dots in abilities, and Molly just rolled attribute dice pool for those, with no penalties. @DragonParadox ?
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DragonParadox said:
That is how we've been doing it so far yeah. I'm thinking about taking out the double 10s for those though going forward.
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Yog said:
Too servile to be Ligier, I think... That would be fun, though.
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He's had ages to get worn away, and lost his memories to boot, so it's hard to tell. The exaltation sheltered him, but only so much because he was a hanger on and not part of it intrinsically.

Also worth considering that the nature of Molly's relationship with him is very different than the one he'd have had with most viewpoint characters.

He's basically part of Molly's soul structure now. Molly is the fetitch soul of the primordial she's becoming, so the relationship is more like how one of Malfeas' third circles would interact with Ligier than how Ligier might interact with someone external.

Not saying he definitely is, but if this line of reasoning has any substance to it then Usum would have to be something Malfeas considered worth special preservation.

This particular tinfoil hat is one I'm reluctant to take off, because it makes a lot of sense to me as a backup plan to the backup plan for the Yozi.

Primordials are identities so large they exist beyond the scope of a single soul. They're one entity and many at the same time, but the "I" of their "I think therefore I am" is the oversoul.

From that perspective becoming part of a new primordial growing out of an infernal could be seen as a form of change more than a form of subsumption.
 
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