Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[X] Try to interrogate the surrendered Warlocks
-[X] Use Akashic Root Methodology to instantly learn everything they know


Instantaneous interrogation for the win. It will tell us why Thorned Namshiel Is here and whether that is time sensitive or not. Stopping these warlocks while important doesn't really help us If Thorned is here trying to continue the work except melting it with hellfire, rather than shaking the foundations with Geomancy. Though if they're just trying to set up pockets for later infiltration attempts that's far more belated in how pressing the need to deal with that is.
The bad guys practice information control even better than the good guys do, because its power over their underlings.
Kattrin didnt tell Gorfels what she wanted to do in Chicago either. Peabody would likely know, but I doubt any of these guys would; I doubt these guys even know a Denarian is here.

And if Thorned Namshiel was here to help blow up the Halls, he would be here.
Not creeping. Good odds he's trying to steal something.
Or someone.
[X] Try to interrogate the surrendered Warlocks
-[X] Use Akashic Root Methodology to instantly learn everything they know



I still want to know what they're trying to achieve with the dialogue. They're clearly trying to reach out to Lydia and then Molly. It's hardly just empty words. Sure, you can chalk it up to typical villain behavior, but I think they genuinely think they have an ace up their sleeve for arguments or some other forbidden knowledge. Which they might not sell, but use as a weapon.
It is just empty words.
They know damn well where to find Molly and Lydia most days; that they are only bringing any of this up now is largely a distraction from their current goals.

And the vote is not likely to work
Lydia is Perception 3,Empathy 3 for a total dice pool of 6. And she has no Perception Excellency.
She is going to be shit at interrogation without someone to backstop her.

Sophia would be much better, but its not Key for her, and she doesnt have any of the investigation gifts.
Hence Molly's presence being necessary.
It's rather unfortunate if Molly was around and we were willing we could just use the Crown to ask about whatever the hell they were referring to here and trying to use to mess with Lydia. Probably would've counted for the Urge too. I'm trying to find a way to ask but we don't have a recording through Clippy either.

All that wonderful lore wasted. :cry:
Molly and Sophia share memories.
We can probably use the revenants as foci for relevant questions.
 
Maybe.

Wait. I just realized. Olivia straight up disappeared. She was supposed to be there.
Olivia is with Molly.
I think the makeup of Team A was: Molly, Olivia, Lash, McCoy, Carlos, 1x Weaver, 1x sorcerer(Thunder's Arrow)
She's not had reason to make noise since

At the first Team A combat encounter with the ambushing wizards, Molly + Lash + McCoy handled it.
The second encounter, when the demon lord showed up, she has no Summoning/Binding, so the sorcerer Thunder's Arrow was the person who helped McCoy bind the demon.

No need to call unnecessary attention to herself.
Especially since her popping that wizard on the tower freaked out so many wizards.
 
Olivia is with Molly.
I think the makeup of Team A was: Molly, Olivia, Lash, McCoy, Carlos, 1x Weaver, 1x sorcerer(Thunder's Arrow)
She's not had reason to make noise since

At the first Team A combat encounter with the ambushing wizards, Molly + Lash + McCoy handled it.
The second encounter, when the demon lord showed up, she has no Summoning/Binding, so the sorcerer Thunder's Arrow was the person who helped McCoy bind the demon.

No need to call unnecessary attention to herself.
Especially since her popping that wizard on the tower freaked out so many wizards.
Nope.

Molly, McCoy, Carlos, Tiffany, 1 War Weaver and A combat Sorcerer head to the Senior Council Chamber

Morgan, Sophia, Harry, Lydia, Olivia, 4 War Weavers, 2 combat Sorcerers and the 2 Hand
 
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Nope.
Molly, McCoy, Carlos, Tiffany, 1 War Weaver and A combat Sorcerer head to the Senior Council Chamber
Morgan, Sophia, Harry, Lydia, Olivia, 4 War Weavers, 2 combat Sorcerers and the 2 Hand
Conceded.
I thought she was with Molly; just another way that distribution of force wasnt very well thought out.

=====
Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Sep 28, 2024 at 9:39 PM, finished with 38 posts and 5 votes.

  • [X] Try to interrogate the surrendered Warlocks
    -[X] Use Akashic Root Methodology to instantly learn everything they know
    [X] Regroup in the Warden Baracks


Im just going to point out that, in addition to the other issues raised, using Akashic Root Methodology costs Essence.
Commentary in a little bit.
 
Lydia is Perception 3,Empathy 3 for a total dice pool of 6. And she has no Perception Excellency.
She is going to be shit at interrogation without someone to backstop her.
Which is why I am using Akashic Root Methodology. Lydia needs 1 success at Intelligence + Academics at DC5 roll, which she does have excellency for, to get all information from the people she's interrogating as long as those she's interrogating are cooperating. And since they surrendered following her declaration of intent to guide their souls in the afterlife, I assume they are cooperating.

Basically - Lydia has a perfect charm for this.

Moreover - by the text of the charm, the people being interrogated don't get to know what information Lydia learned. ARM is up there with the Crown of Eyes when used right. And Lydia should learn Astrology together with us.
The bad guys practice information control even better than the good guys do, because its power over their underlings.
Kattrin didnt tell Gorfels what she wanted to do in Chicago either. Peabody would likely know, but I doubt any of these guys would; I doubt these guys even know a Denarian is here.

And if Thorned Namshiel was here to help blow up the Halls, he would be here.
Not creeping. Good odds he's trying to steal something.
Or someone.
There's a hell of a lot of assumptions baked in here. Such as Peabody being higher on the totem pole of the True Magi organization than others, this being normal situation (it's manifestly not) where normal security standards could be maintained (someone had to let Namshiel in, and Peabody wasn't really in a position to do so), their general information security reigning supreme (that's a hell of an assumption by itself), and, of course, Namshiel's motivations.
I'm 90% sure that guy was talking to Sophia.

Who is, in that sense, a pale facsimile of Molly.
Ah, that's possible, I guess. I made an assumption that they talked about Lydia since prior to that the dead things were addressing her.
 
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Ah, that's possible, I guess. I made an assumption that they talked about Lydia since prior to that the dead things were addressing her.
Yeah, but in the next sentence they are looking at Sophia.

And after that:
"The body broke and with it the connection. Given what she had just gone though Lydia was indeed glad of it."

I read that as Lydia being glad that Sophia/Molly didn't have to go through the Hollow Man's mindfuck-attempts as she just did.
 
[X] Try to interrogate the surrendered Warlocks
-[X] Use Akashic Root Methodology to instantly learn everything they know


Yeah alright I want to see what this ends up looking like.
 
Strange, since they usually operate in teams. I wouldn't expect Denarians to be able to resist the Crown. Now I'm wondering why more aren't involved
I think I was Going back and forth with bronzetongue on this The denarians do not actually like each other or work together, that often even in a scheme to destroy one of the largest Sources of knowledge and resistance to them and their agenda in the world, less Then half of their number total show up.

There's a lot of dialogue every time they're In text of them, disliking each other. If one of them had intel that this was happening and thought it would give them an advantage over the others, they would take it and not tell anyone else shit.
the vote is not likely to work
Lydia is Perception 3,Empathy 3 for a total dice pool of 6. And she has no Perception Excellency.
She is going to be shit at interrogation without someone to backstop her.
You don't interrogate with perception for one. Two Akashic Root Methodology
Alternatively, spend 1 Essence to roll Intelligence + Academics at DC5; success locates pertinent information instantly.
The people that gave the nickelhead access are definitely pertinent sources of information and she can get it.
 
[X] Regroup in the Warden Baracks

I'm not certain the warlocks would even count as "cooperative" for Akashic Root. They surrendered conditionally and would have no reason to help people, who are still going to execute them, any further.
 
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Death's Swift Wings​
18th of February 2007 A.D.
COMMENTARY
-*points at Peabody running Better Body rotes*
The bad guys have gotten, and are getting upgrades in response to Exalted bullshit.
This is something to keep in mind for the future.


-And on that note, Peabody is Arete 8? The fuck? That certainly explains how he got into Harry's head.
For reference, Blackstaff McCoy is Arete 8. Morgan appears to be Arete 5.
Peabody could have murdered every wizard here, and crushed Morgan and his squad like an egg.

Very good thing they had Exalted backup.


-Pale facsimile is just evidence that notNephandi remain sufficiently human to indulge in sour grapes.
If the Hollow Man ever wanted to speak to Molly, her address is in the phonebook. This was an attempt to stall and distract a hostile in the field.

Its also worth noting that all the Wardens here know how strong someone like Harry is compared to most wizards, so they actually know what it entails for Lydia to eat a fireball from him and proceed to continue as if she didnt care.
Nevermind what Sophia has done. Or Olivia.

The Warden AARs after this are going to be the stuff of Halloween reading.


-The Hollow Man being aware means that any conspirators not currently in the Halls will almost certainly get warning and go on the run before we or the Council can reach them. Since I doubt more than half the conspirators are currently here, that could mean upwards of twenty black wizards in the wind. Interesting Times ahead.


-Morgan, Zardok and Lady M have been active.
Gonna note that the fourth wizard, Nzola the illusionist has been pretty quiet. So has Olivia, for that matter.
Were they covering the rear against sneak attack?


-Gonna note that in canon, the wards over the Hidden Halls were comprehensive enough that you couldnt open a Way to or from the NeverNever until you were outside them.
Which was why in Turn Coat Peabody ran from the assembly hall until he could get outside the Halls.

That this warlock is opening a Way here means either that this area in the very heart of the Halls is outside the wards(unlikely) or Peabody and his conspirators have spent weeks and months creating vulnerabilities in the wards to allow for people to open Ways if at all necessary.

Which is another datum in favor of the theory that this entire disaster has been planned for weeks or months before Molly crashed it with her Circle.


-Generally the presence of OG Hellfire suggests that one or more Denarians is about, and that rule hasnt failed yet.
And this guy is probably the worst possible matchup for a bunch of wizards.

Thorned Namshiel is the magical specialist of the Denarians. As in, he actually appears to enjoy magic in all its ramifications, both using and teaching it. This is the guy who taught Polonessa Lartessa magic, taught Marcone to teleport, who trivially trapped Dresden in a circle mid-combat and nullified his magic until Uriel interfered.

Just saying that if this guy and his host are running loose in the Halls, he probably eats most any caster in this place alive, including the Senior Council members. And thats not counting his warform.
It probably explains WHERE the Merlin is.


-Question is: WHY is Namshiel here?
The guys who ambushed McCoy with Hellfire means that he has been involved with this particular conspiracy for a significant amount of time, so none of this was impromptu.

What I cant see is what he is getting out of it.
The wizard library undoubtedly hosts arcane secrets galore, but I cant imagine that they have more magical secrets than an actual Fallen Angel is privy to.

We appear to be looking at an actual example of a Xanatos Pile-Up; multiple plans colliding.
Red Court, Peabody/Hollow Man and Denarian, as a bare minimum.
If Molly manages to aggro three or more different factions in this evening, she deserves an extra helping of ice cream.

OOC: And there's the fight. Hope it worked. Personally I was a lot more happy with this than the last fight in the Wicked City, people almost died, Dresden got a brand new source of trauma, horrors man was not meant to know were faced and secrets were uncovered (even if not yet on screen...)
Lol.
I see Butcher has taught you well :V
2) Lydia is almost confirmed to be an attempt at recreating an exaltation, what with being called a "pale facsimile" of Molly. Goddamn, Kemmler was good.
Unlikely.

There's two potential explanations:
Liminal Exalts, which are a thing in the ExWoD setting, in which people make something close enough and Grandmother reaches up from the underworld and actually imbues the resulting product with life.

Or like BronzeTongue suggested, he figured out how to try to aspect an existing Exaltation differently, along the lines of the Dragons of A Different Color from Ex2E, where there were Dragonbloods who were aspected to the underworld.
Both would be impressive feats, but neither would require the dude literally doing shit that Primordials couldnt recreate.

Fair I guess, but it seems unreasonable for people to just remember they had extra powers and resources around. If it didn't really cost them anything they couldn't afford to lose and they could do it on short notice why wouldn't they already be doing it?
The US Army did not take B-52s to Mogadishu in the 1990s, and didnt patrol Iraq with M1 tanks.
That doesnt mean they didnt have the capability, it means they didnt have the requirements or want to take the trade-offs.

Similarly, black wizards who understand what the costs of calling on their associates entails arent going to be in a hurry to call on them if they can do it otherwise.
Even McCoy doesnt pull out the Blackstaff every time he wants to cast magic.
 
That this warlock is opening a Way here means either that this area in the very heart of the Halls is outside the wards(unlikely) or Peabody and his conspirators have spent weeks and months creating vulnerabilities in the wards to allow for people to open Ways if at all necessary.
I figured it was not a regular Way being opened, but rather the result of a one-shot, specially prepared escape treasure type item that could punch through the wards.

It's one thing to tamper with the wards just slightly for various purposes, if you've got the time and skill to do it. Messing with them sufficiently to allow Ways to be opened, however, doesn't seem very plausible to me. No matter how lax the White Council has allowed their security to become, or how compromised it may be due to traitors, they are currently on a war footing against the Reds and have many other enemies capable of moving through the NeverNever. If any wards in the Halls get regular attention and maintenance, it would be the ones that guard against intrusion.
 
Which is why I am using Akashic Root Methodology. Lydia needs 1 success at Intelligence + Academics at DC5 roll, which she does have excellency for, to get all information from the people she's interrogating as long as those she's interrogating are cooperating. And since they surrendered following her declaration of intent to guide their souls in the afterlife, I assume they are cooperating.

Basically - Lydia has a perfect charm for this.

Moreover - by the text of the charm, the people being interrogated don't get to know what information Lydia learned. ARM is up there with the Crown of Eyes when used right. And Lydia should learn Astrology together with us.
You're mistaken.
Akashic Root Methodology speeds up the process of looking for information. Only if you spend Essence is it instant.
And even then you need cooperative experts, which is not something you can assume of prisoners.

Akashic Root Methodology (••)
The Exigent walks in the footsteps of dead giants, and the memories of the mortal dead shorten her path to enlightenment.

System: In the presence of appropriate resources, research and scholarly rolls progress ten times faster than normal, and benefit from a -1 DC reduction in difficulty, minimum DC3. Alternatively, spend 1 Essence to roll Intelligence + Academics at DC5; success locates pertinent information instantly.

Requires access to a library, archives or collection of cooperating experts,
whether mortal or not, with plausible access to the relevant information. Computers and networked devices also count, as long as the information is not hidden/encrypted/passworded.
This is why you need someone who is good at interrogation to get them to cooperate.

There's a hell of a lot of assumptions baked in here. Such as Peabody being higher on the totem pole of the True Magi organization than others, this being normal situation (it's manifestly not) where normal security standards could be maintained (someone had to let Namshiel in, and Peabody wasn't really in a position to do so), their general information security reigning supreme (that's a hell of an assumption by itself), and, of course, Namshiel's motivations.
1) According to the Crown, Peabody is explicitly the highest-ranked conspirator, and the only one who the Crown has shown as a disciple of Ashraaaf the Hollow Man, and the only one with the Investment that hides his true aura.
Thats how we drew the direct connection between Hollow Man conspiracies.

Also, in this AU Peabody is Arete 8. Same as Ebenezar McCoy.
None of the other conspirators we have seen thus far have been more than Arete 5.
Morgan has been Arete 5.


2) We have literally interrogated Shaw, another conspiracy member, only a couple hours ago, only to find out that he doesnt even know the identities of all the other conspirators in Europe, nevermind worldwide.
Information control is not an assumption, its a hard fact.


3) We know nothing about Namshiel's motivations.
He is a Fallen Angel; someone who was there when the first fires of Creation were lit certainly isnt here to steal arcane secrets from a bunch of mortal wizards.

My opinion is that he's either here to steal a physical object, to kidnap a person, or to witness a test of something new, like that Limos demon-hybrid thing.


4) Why would Peabody need to let Namshiel in personally when he literally has mind-controlled a bunch of wizards?
If he can turn Carlos into a sleeper agent, and make Warden Captain Luccio give orders to send Wardens away from the Halls, how difficult is it to have one of those thralls open the door for someone else?

I figured it was not a regular Way being opened, but rather the result of a one-shot, specially prepared escape treasure type item that could punch through the wards.

It's one thing to tamper with the wards just slightly for various purposes, if you've got the time and skill to do it. Messing with them sufficiently to allow Ways to be opened, however, doesn't seem very plausible to me. No matter how lax the White Council has allowed their security to become, or how compromised it may be due to traitors, they are currently on a war footing against the Reds and have many other enemies capable of moving through the NeverNever. If any wards in the Halls get regular attention and maintenance, it would be the ones that guard against intrusion.
I have been side-eying the wards ever since the demon lord was summoned in the Warden Barracks.
Thats a major threat vector, and one of the things that you'd think wards would keep out, or at least start screaming alarms when it showed up.

The lack of neither blocking nor alarms suggests they are compromised.

I mean, who would normally be considered to be responsible for ensuring the wards are regularly inspected?
Peabody, secretary to the Senior Council and head bureaucrat and senior logistician during the ongoing war, or Warden Captain Luccio. One is a traitor and mind-controller, the other is mind-controlled.
 
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-And on that note, Peabody is Arete 8? The fuck? That certainly explains how he got into Harry's head.
For reference, Blackstaff McCoy is Arete 8. Morgan appears to be Arete 5.
Peabody could have murdered every wizard here, and crushed Morgan and his squad like an egg.
I'd assume he's cheating.

Tapping the leylines here in this place of power, after he had decades time, something like that?
 
You're mistaken.
Akashic Root Methodology speeds up the process of looking for information. Only if you spend Essence is it instant.
And even then you need cooperative experts, which is not something you can assume of prisoners.

Akashic Root Methodology (••)
The Exigent walks in the footsteps of dead giants, and the memories of the mortal dead shorten her path to enlightenment.

System: In the presence of appropriate resources, research and scholarly rolls progress ten times faster than normal, and benefit from a -1 DC reduction in difficulty, minimum DC3. Alternatively, spend 1 Essence to roll Intelligence + Academics at DC5; success locates pertinent information instantly.

Requires access to a library, archives or collection of cooperating experts, whether mortal or not, with plausible access to the relevant information. Computers and networked devices also count, as long as the information is not hidden/encrypted/passworded. This is why you need someone who is good at interrogation to get them to cooperate.
I am not mistaken. "Cooperative experts" = "prisoners who surrendered". Of course I am voting to spend an essence mote.
1) According to the Crown, Peabody is explicitly the highest-ranked conspirator, and the only one who the Crown has shown as a disciple of Ashraaaf the Hollow Man, and the only one with the Investment that hides his true aura.
Thats how we drew the direct connection between Hollow Man conspiracies.

Also, in this AU Peabody is Arete 8. Same as Ebenezar McCoy.
None of the other conspirators we have seen thus far have been more than Arete 5.
Morgan has been Arete 5.
Citation needed. Highest rank in the Council hierarchy =/= highest rank in the conspiracy.
 
I'd assume he's cheating.
Tapping the leylines here in this place of power, after he had decades time, something like that?
Possible.

I am not mistaken. "Cooperative experts" = "prisoners who surrendered". Of course I am voting to spend an essence mote.
Prisoners who surrendered =/= cooperative experts.
Just because a soldier surrendered doesnt mean he'll automatically be willing to tell you everything he knows.

Citation needed. Highest rank in the Council hierarchy =/= highest rank in the conspiracy.
I quote:
And then there is Samuel Peabody, secretary-at-large, stenographer of the Senior Council and of late head logistician in the war against the Red Court by sheer necessity, managing strained funds and even more strained resources without the technical authority to command wardens in a time of war and yet they do so anyway. He even goes onto the field sometimes, as far as the graph in your head goes he looks like a mirror imagine of Ancient Mai's faux wardens who depend on the protection of her guardian constructs even more than she does.

You know that name.

Who is the most trusted traitor within the ranks of the White Council?


Lost 3 Essence (Crown of Eyes: Three questions) -> Now at 7/15
Regained 2 Essence (Urge of the Forbidden) -> Now at 9/15


Samuel Peabody again, this time accompanied by a vision of a mild-mannered bespectacled balding fellow with a salt and pepper, save for the fact that his eyes behind those spectacles are dead, a corpse-gaze looking out of a living face unseen by all, even the wisest. Behind those eyes his master watches, the dark that eats the stars, the shadow inside.

Ashraaah's work

It's the same one who had given Vittorio Malvora his veil against true-sight, a taste like kerosene and rotten meat on the tongue. The irony does not escape you that in trying to hide his pawns he has actually revealed the connection between them,
it is just hard to hear the satisfaction over the gibbering horror of someone that highly placed being a servant of not just the Red Court, old and wicked as it may be but Things Beyond.
We specifically pinged on Peabody above all the rest for a reason.
 
We specifically pinged on Peabody above all the rest for a reason.
That literally says most trusted By the white council, not highest rank. By that reasoning, Shaw could have been the leader of the conspiracy.
Prisoners who surrendered =/= cooperative experts.
Just because a soldier surrendered doesnt mean he'll automatically be willing to tell you everything he knows.
They are literally the people that let the nickelhead in. They've already agreed to hand over their lives and souls to Lydia, you think a bit of information is a bridge too far really
 
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