Misread that option tbh. Yeah, Daughters can wait, embedding agents to tradeships is more important.
Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest
- Thread starter 4WheelSword
- Start date
- Original Art Quest Sci-Fi
Misread that option tbh. Yeah, Daughters can wait, embedding agents to tradeships is more important.
[X] Plan Looking Inward v2
Still have a backlog to read but iirc the unkown concepts needing testing are:
And whether a heavy ship can beat its own tonnage in smaller vessels is worth knowing. Although I dunno if sending the Monitor up against "all of the above" is worthwhile.
Edit: also, this is getting bizarre. This is now three outside polities in our neighbourhood who are known to have interstellar spaceflight and have presumably been active for decades, yet have never been seen to drop into Home or neighbouring systems, even in the form of civilian prospectors or pirate raiders. Is there some sort of interstellar Prime Directive going on? Is it just considered a dick move to prey on people who can't at least theoretically resist? Or is it something like "if you're not already on civilised peoples' starmaps you obviously don't have anything worth our time"?
That said populations are extremely low. 300k could easily be a colony founded very recently, and the Aslan systems we know are likely to be fringe settlements. But equally, if larger powers were actively expanding in our direction, surely we'd have seen scouts? Founding a colony without getting some idea of who might be next door sounds reckless, though the Aslan males would probably be glad to see a hostile visit. But we hadn't seen any of them sniffing around for a scuffle either, and two jumps isn't much of a gap.
Unless maybe one jump is the standard, and the sorts of deep-space refuelling ops we've been doing are considered suicidally reckless? But even then a two-jump scout ship with on-board fuel refining would have no trouble, or they could route up around Staging Point the way we did.
- How effective torpedoes are against a target with PD
- How many torpedoes it takes to kill a ship through how much PD
- Whether smaller escorts can prevent missile attacks
- Whether torpedoes and missiles can be used at extreme/"stand-off" ranges where direct-fire weapons are ineffective
- Whether a small, fast, cheap ship with long-range weapons can dunk on (approved scientific term) heavier, slower vessels
- Whether strike craft can effectively attack warships
- How many it takes to cripple a large ship/how much PD it takes to stop them
And whether a heavy ship can beat its own tonnage in smaller vessels is worth knowing. Although I dunno if sending the Monitor up against "all of the above" is worthwhile.
Edit: also, this is getting bizarre. This is now three outside polities in our neighbourhood who are known to have interstellar spaceflight and have presumably been active for decades, yet have never been seen to drop into Home or neighbouring systems, even in the form of civilian prospectors or pirate raiders. Is there some sort of interstellar Prime Directive going on? Is it just considered a dick move to prey on people who can't at least theoretically resist? Or is it something like "if you're not already on civilised peoples' starmaps you obviously don't have anything worth our time"?
That said populations are extremely low. 300k could easily be a colony founded very recently, and the Aslan systems we know are likely to be fringe settlements. But equally, if larger powers were actively expanding in our direction, surely we'd have seen scouts? Founding a colony without getting some idea of who might be next door sounds reckless, though the Aslan males would probably be glad to see a hostile visit. But we hadn't seen any of them sniffing around for a scuffle either, and two jumps isn't much of a gap.
Unless maybe one jump is the standard, and the sorts of deep-space refuelling ops we've been doing are considered suicidally reckless? But even then a two-jump scout ship with on-board fuel refining would have no trouble, or they could route up around Staging Point the way we did.
Last edited:
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
- Pronouns
- It/She/They
The ship hasn't been properly shown in the thread yet, but this is our Courier!!!
Positronzz on Tumblr made it gratis and I'd love if y'all would give him some attention
Doubloon
Quelle horreur!
Hell yeah! Extremely impressed by his work, let him know he has the thread's deepest appreciation. 
Also, @4WheelSword, congratulations on hitting 100 pages!
Back to the vote, here's something with some changes from earlier. The Garda-Villis response stays the same (they could crush us like ants if they wanted to, so let's pretend the problem doesn't exist) and so does the wargame. @Magnificate mentioned the unequal tonnage, that's true, but I wanted to see if the number of hulls can overcome a mild disparity there.
The only actual change is Aslan vs. Daughters. I want to see if we've gotten any new insight on them after the diplomatic visit. They value territory, for example; might they value ours? What do they desire in trade from us? That kind of thing.
[X] Plan Lion King 9000
-[X] We should stay away from Garda-Villis and whoever else is out there. Due-South is not for us.
-[X] Spread the net to include the HSMS, bringing them into the purview of the MIC
-[X] Assess the threat of the Aslan to the stability of Home
-[X] Wargames Assignment:
--[X] BLUFOR: Escorted Cruiser formation, one IC, two Frigates
--[X] OPFOR: HSWS Perkūnas, Multi-Mission Vehicle
Also, @4WheelSword, congratulations on hitting 100 pages!
Back to the vote, here's something with some changes from earlier. The Garda-Villis response stays the same (they could crush us like ants if they wanted to, so let's pretend the problem doesn't exist) and so does the wargame. @Magnificate mentioned the unequal tonnage, that's true, but I wanted to see if the number of hulls can overcome a mild disparity there.
The only actual change is Aslan vs. Daughters. I want to see if we've gotten any new insight on them after the diplomatic visit. They value territory, for example; might they value ours? What do they desire in trade from us? That kind of thing.
[X] Plan Lion King 9000
-[X] We should stay away from Garda-Villis and whoever else is out there. Due-South is not for us.
-[X] Spread the net to include the HSMS, bringing them into the purview of the MIC
-[X] Assess the threat of the Aslan to the stability of Home
-[X] Wargames Assignment:
--[X] BLUFOR: Escorted Cruiser formation, one IC, two Frigates
--[X] OPFOR: HSWS Perkūnas, Multi-Mission Vehicle
- Location
- Somewhere in the stacks
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Plan Lion King 9000
- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
[X] Plan Lion King 9000
Ooc: Changed my vote
Ooc: Changed my vote
- Location
- Here, there, everywhere.
I'm split on the vote. I'll be honest though I think the MVV should be tested over the fighters given we've invested so much into it's design as an... MVV and if it's actually worth investing in such a ship.
I think my vote will have to be Looking Inward given the Daughters so far have appeared so often that we need a solid idea of what exactly they are up to.
[X] Plan Looking Inward v2
I think my vote will have to be Looking Inward given the Daughters so far have appeared so often that we need a solid idea of what exactly they are up to.
[X] Plan Looking Inward v2
Hope is not a plan.
Make ourselves useful to them in some way. Make ourselves less valuable than other things in the neighborhood. Make ourselves more trouble than we are worth.
Anyway:
[X] Plan Lion King 9000
-[X] We should stay away from Garda-Villis and whoever else is out there. Due-South is not for us.
-[X] Spread the net to include the HSMS, bringing them into the purview of the MIC
-[X] Assess the threat of the Aslan to the stability of Home
-[X] Wargames Assignment:
--[X] BLUFOR: Escorted Cruiser formation, one IC, two Frigates
--[X] OPFOR: Fighter-Bomber formation, 12 XF-40 ships
Last edited:
Doubloon
Quelle horreur!
You fiend! This is Plan Lion King 9001!
But to address something of actual substance; Garda-Villis. I'm open to suggestions, but I don't think we can make more trouble than we're worth. We'd just make trouble, and I fear we'd not like the response. We could seek the vassalize ourselves, but that's incredibly presumptuous. The fact we hadn't met them yet suggests an insular attitude, and one that I'd be happy to respect.
On a more positive note, they're "only" Tech Level 10 and "only" have a population an order of magnitude greater than our own. Maybe eventually we could approach their level, and open up some of those options.
Not make trouble, in the sense we're a problem for them, but become more bothersome to mess with than could be gained from messing with us. Become juice that's not worth the squeeze, if that makes more sense.
Doubloon
Quelle horreur!
No, I understand that much. I just don't think it's applicable to our circumstances.
It's easier to fight a fleet action than than enforce an occupation, for example. That thought is what influenced the thread's decision-making a few turns ago, during the Cassalon/S'Taxu crisis. The benefits we reap from our friendly relationship there could not be matched by other means.
A lot of the factors that impact decision-making on a planet (lingering insurgencies, MAD, etc) don't exist or are vastly changed in this setting. Worst thing, the Garda-Villians could see us being annoying and crack our fleets apart to teach us a lesson. If they felt like it afterwards, they could just nuke Home. Am I being overly paranoid?
...maybe?
[X] Plan Looking Inward v2
Eh, I want to hear more about the Daughters as a narrative thing.
Eh, I want to hear more about the Daughters as a narrative thing.
[X] Plan Lion King 9000
Long time no post.
But something to keep in mind with war games- the best training is that which is done with one arm tied behind your back. After all you learn more in defeat than you do in victory. That said, the closest current planned exercise would have to be looking inward v2, but I think we could do better. Specifically put the Monitor on the Opfor's side or two more cruisers on Blufor's. This would be for training Blufor against large(ish, as Garda-Vllia just showed us) opponents, or Opfor against overwhelming numbers.
That said, for the MIC a big question is still what they're going to DO with the information they collect. As it stands, if they're going to be internal criminal police, then extending them to the HSMS is best. Political would be covering Daughters. And actual intel would be external polities. They all have merit, but don't really have a ton of overlap.
But something to keep in mind with war games- the best training is that which is done with one arm tied behind your back. After all you learn more in defeat than you do in victory. That said, the closest current planned exercise would have to be looking inward v2, but I think we could do better. Specifically put the Monitor on the Opfor's side or two more cruisers on Blufor's. This would be for training Blufor against large(ish, as Garda-Vllia just showed us) opponents, or Opfor against overwhelming numbers.
That said, for the MIC a big question is still what they're going to DO with the information they collect. As it stands, if they're going to be internal criminal police, then extending them to the HSMS is best. Political would be covering Daughters. And actual intel would be external polities. They all have merit, but don't really have a ton of overlap.
That one we know from earlier posts. We're respectable because we hold territory, we would be even more respectable if we held more. But, that hold must be firm. If someone else declared their intent to take our territories and we couldn't defend it, then it is proper and just that the challenger now takes care of those territories.
It might be a quirk of the setting. Lot's of different planets near each other makes for varied and interesting RPG campaigns, so polities don't expand as fast and tech doesn't proliferate as much as we would expect them to.
We've created MIC as a response to being fed unreliable intel. As such, I'm a bit disappointed that we're sending them to investigate our most straight-forward neighbour.
Yes, but for the same reason, since it's a setting built for intrepid explorers, daring small-business-owners lifting themselves up by their bootstraps, and ravening pirates hungry for booty, why haven't we seen any of these interstellar scum and villains hunting for adventure?
Obviously merchants aren't likely to go into uncharted space, but that's right up an explorer or archaeotech hunter's alley, and pirates specifically want bases where people won't know to look for them or vulnerable worlds they can loot or lord over with the threat of an orbital bombardment.
6-8: The Only Winning Move
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
- Pronouns
- It/She/They
What is the HSWS response to this: We should stay away from Garda-Villis and whoever else is out there. Due-South is not for us.
Is there anything specific the Service would like from the MIC? Spread the net to include the HSMS, bringing them into the purview of the MIC. Assess the threat of the Aslan to the stability of Home.
What is the BLUFOR? What is the OPFOR? Choose two to be pitched against each other:
BLUFOR: Escorted Cruiser formation, one IC, two Frigates
OPFOR: HSWS Perkūnas, Multi-Mission Vehicle
War Games
Four ships are selected for the wargames - the HSWS Perkūnas will take the role of an opposing attack ship, while the HSWS Neto, accompanied by the frigates Keres and Wadjet, will represent defensive formations of Home. The four manoeuvre to the battle space in formation, before splitting and entering a period of radio silence; the appointed start time is coming and nobody wants to give away an easy firing solution.
BLUFOR INIT: 12
OPFOR INIT: 14
Perkūnas lights up scan boards first, with thrust plates glowing and her particle beams already tracking the distant targets. Simulated torpedoes slip from her tubes, ghosts on the sensors that will perform as if they are solid machinery and explosives. The particle beams light up green, capacitors charged, and their energy is dumped into the jump drive to simulate firing.
MMV PB damage potential against IC: 180
Attack effectiveness: 0.75
Sandcaster Defence: 4
Final Damage: 131
Critical Hits: M-Drive 1, Cargo 1
Radiation: -2 to crew skill
Automated referee software notes several significant damaging hits on the Neto, and her commander imagines the blasts the particle beams would leave in her hull. They order return fire even as a damage control party rushes to the drive bays to tend to non-existent fires. The Frigates close ranks, readying for an incoming torpedo salvo.
IC PB damage potential against PB: 160
Attack effectiveness: 0.5
Sandcaster Defence: 16
Final Damage: 64
Radiation: No effect
Both frigates fire their missiles, but the MMV seems thoroughly unimpeded by the hits it has received, even as simulated radiation washes the decks. Torpedoes streak in as the large ship manoeuvres to maintain the advantageous range and the small squadrons PD net goes to work. The combined network of laser turrets spin and flash, intercepting and detonating every torpedo before they has a chance to engage. Missiles sweep back in return, and the MMV is only able to intercept or divert eighteen of the twenty-four launched, the last six detonating along the hull - or they would, if the munitions actually existed.
Damage from Missiles: 12
The MMV fires again, its massive turrets tracking and engaging the most dangerous target - the BLUFOR cruiser. This time the beams sweep across the bridge and turrets and, had the shots been real, the HSWS Neto would be limping along with barely three-quarters of its crew combat effective.
MMV PB damage potential against IC: 180
Attack effectiveness: 0.5
Sandcaster Defence: 8
Final Damage: 82
Critical Hits: M-Drive 1, Cargo 1, Bridge 1, Weapons 1
Radiation: -4 to crew skill
IC PB damage potential against PB: 120
Attack effectiveness: 0.25
Sandcaster Defence: 16
Final Damage: 14
Radiation: No effect
The Perkūnas hardly bothers to engage with its torpedoes again. It systematically disassembles first the cruiser, then both frigates with just its particle cannons in what shows itself to be an utterly lopsided fight. However, there are some significant lessons learned -
- The frigates add excellent munition defence to their charges, but the sand defences of the smaller ships are decidedly small.
- Radiation damage is perhaps the most dangerous threat possible - the Neto was principally disabled by 'dead' crew, not by shattered bulkheads.
- An MMV cannot penetrate its own PD network with its torpedoes.
Would the HSWS care to institute any lessons learned from this war game?
[ ] Write in
Home Space Merchant Service
Why is your patch so big....
- Around 500 passengers in relatively comfortable conditions, with enough space for stewards and open common spaces for their journey.
- 3,000 tons of cargo, equivalent to six interstellar conveyors in a single load.
- a 2,500 ton station or station module, allowing for the deployment of much larger constructions.
- Considerations have been made for a 'SAR' module, with space for a handful of shuttles, quarters for an FLF ranger coy and medical facilities sufficient enough to provision care for significant casualties. It would be expected that such a module would be vital for operations such as the one conducted recently in Cassalon.
Are there any modules the HSWS would particularly like to see designed?
[ ] A Merchant Troop module that can carry significant numbers of FLF infantry into a combat zone.
[ ] A 'Q-Ship' module, to turn the ship into something akin to a fighting ship.
[ ] A CAM module, to turn the ship into a light carrier.
[ ] Other - Write in.
Life Goes On
In other parts of the HSWS, operations proceed as planned. Scouting missions are planned to the North and West, ships rotate in and out of deployment in various systems, and new ships join the fleet. The Heimdall Anchorage has her first steels cut, and so does the MAT. That 8,000 ton ship - now named the HSWS Banka-Mundi - will occupy the entirety of the Home yards; or it would if those yards weren't constantly being expanded.
10 year budget check: Increases from 1,800MCr. to 2,200MCr.
10 year yard check: Increases from 8,000 to 9,750 dTons.
Going into 11y00m00w, you will have a budget of 2,700MCr. and 3,750 dTons of yard space.
What will be done with it?
[ ] Write in.
Please present any votes as a plan. Voting opens at
Hmm. I wonder if the the outcome have been better if the Frigates had acted as missile boats in addition to point defense and attacked the MMV head on? The Frigates are faster, and at short range their missiles would likely have been more effective.
I am tempted to run the wargames again, with the Frigates taking an aggressive stance due to the MMV clearly outshooting them and the Cruiser at long range.
Edit: Is there room to add Sancasters to the Cruiser design? Could we add radiation shielding to the bulkheads? Some lead walls ought to help.
Last edited:
I have a feeling that winning the initiative contributed to the result of the exercises a lot.
How about a straight tanker? Or perhaps an engineering ship that is able to concuct fleet field repairs and some minor construction?
Hmmm... We know it's possible for Frigates to contribute their point-defense to the cruisers, but can sandcasters be used the same way, or does each ship require their own sandcasters?
Last edited:
I'd propose something like this:
Would the HSWS care to institute any lessons learned from this war game?
[ ] Run the War games again, same Bluefor and Opfor. Allow both sides to shift tactics based on the previous result. In practice, this would mean the Frigates take on an aggressive stance from the start and try to get close to the MMV to hit it more efficiently with their missiles. A long-range engagement clearly favors the MMV, after all.
and
[] Start a project for updating the fleet based on the lessons from the wargames.
-[] Investigate adding radiation shielding to the internal walls of all ships, to minimize radiation damage to the crew.
-[] Try to fit more sandcasters onto the Interstellar Cruiser design. These ships are designed for long-range shooting with particle beams, but their performance when faced with ships armed with the same weapons leaves a lot to be desired.
Would the HSWS care to institute any lessons learned from this war game?
[ ] Run the War games again, same Bluefor and Opfor. Allow both sides to shift tactics based on the previous result. In practice, this would mean the Frigates take on an aggressive stance from the start and try to get close to the MMV to hit it more efficiently with their missiles. A long-range engagement clearly favors the MMV, after all.
and
[] Start a project for updating the fleet based on the lessons from the wargames.
-[] Investigate adding radiation shielding to the internal walls of all ships, to minimize radiation damage to the crew.
-[] Try to fit more sandcasters onto the Interstellar Cruiser design. These ships are designed for long-range shooting with particle beams, but their performance when faced with ships armed with the same weapons leaves a lot to be desired.