[X] Stonewall him, you are not going to reveal your sources (Charisma+Etiquette vs ???)
-[X] Etiquette Excellency + Boiling Sea Mastery
-[X] Etiquette Excellency + Boiling Sea Mastery
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Good night guys, see you tomorrow with... not buying souls off teenagers, just yet at least.
We're barely even telling a lie, and this sort of deception isn't unusual in this business.
Our ability to pretend that this is just divination is the same as our ability to hide what we're actually doing.
Hey! Molly is a good Catholic hell dimension and would never purchase innocent people's souls.
Renting is totally different.
… What? If it's back before you die you'll hardly even notice it was gone.
Important point - by stonewalling Odin, we force him to take our value judgment on faith. He buys that we know of Outsider involvement. That's not an issue. But read what he is asking "how do you know that this is important enough to warrant Gate Keeper intervention?". This question has the following questions baked in:
1) What do you know about Gate Keeper? Do you know his capabilities? What his current duties and workload are like?
2) What do you know about the Outsider in question? How reliable are your sources? Can they be deceived, can you be mistaken in interpreting them?
If we give him nothing, he can't fact-check us. Odin has one of the best intelligence agencies in the world. He knows stuff we don't. At least part of his motivation in asking, I think, is independent evaluation of whether to call Gate Keeper, or to redirect the call to someone else, like Black Staff, or perhaps to intervene himself even. By giving him nothing we deny him that ability.
1) What do you know about Gate Keeper? Do you know his capabilities? What his current duties and workload are like?
2) What do you know about the Outsider in question? How reliable are your sources? Can they be deceived, can you be mistaken in interpreting them?
If we give him nothing, he can't fact-check us. Odin has one of the best intelligence agencies in the world. He knows stuff we don't. At least part of his motivation in asking, I think, is independent evaluation of whether to call Gate Keeper, or to redirect the call to someone else, like Black Staff, or perhaps to intervene himself even. By giving him nothing we deny him that ability.
- Location
- Canada
Considering Molly's power and most importantly track record, what with averting the apocalpyse/nuking of Las Vegas a month ago, Odin has to take her seriously. I think he's just trying to learn more about Molly's capability, unaware he's poking at the single most deadly secret in existence right now. He's a blind man sticking his head in a dragon's mouth, best not to let him be foolish again. We know that his overconfidence, hubris, and desire to know everything has bitten him in the ass multiple times already, in myth and in Dresden Files. Let's not make him another accidental victim.
This is sort of an aside, but the thing about giving wizards gifts had me looking around a bit. There is actually a gift that would help the wizards resist mind magic passively if they can muster up the exp for a level three option. The side effects aren't great though:
Wizards don't have rage or primal urge, but the empathy lock isn't great.
Basically trades suppressing your emotions for resistance to mind magic. Not healthy to leave up all the time, but better than what most of them are using.
Also, I'm pretty sure there's a gift for forcing moon bridges open. Still looking, but being able to set up teleport gates instead of using traditional ways would be valuable. Perhaps to the point that we keep it for ourselves and make a new template to stick on minions so we can rent the service out. Either way it would be nice if in the future we don't need to wait hours to days for important people to move around.
Wizards don't have rage or primal urge, but the empathy lock isn't great.
Basically trades suppressing your emotions for resistance to mind magic. Not healthy to leave up all the time, but better than what most of them are using.
Also, I'm pretty sure there's a gift for forcing moon bridges open. Still looking, but being able to set up teleport gates instead of using traditional ways would be valuable. Perhaps to the point that we keep it for ourselves and make a new template to stick on minions so we can rent the service out. Either way it would be nice if in the future we don't need to wait hours to days for important people to move around.
1) Withholding information isnt unusual; said information is often very valuable trade good, and traded at a premium.
Lying is, at least in high end formal discourse, because when detected, it damages your social credit score.
And a lot of business in the Dresdenverse is reputation-based.
Barely is still a lie, and I suspect that sort of hair-splitting wont help Molly's social credit score.
Critically, Molly is good, but not great at Subterfuge. Not when compared to other facets of diplomacy.
And she straight up doesnt know anything IC about Odin's information-gathering.
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2) Odin himself doesnt tell Harry how he knows what he knows.
At their first meeting, he didnt tell him how he knew that the Red Court were preparing a bloodline curse, or that the bloodline curse ritual was the same thing as the murder ritual from Storm Front. At their second meeting, he doesnt explain how he knows about Demonreach. At their third meeting, he doesnt say how he knew that Anduriel spies through shadows.
Harry has to take it on faith.
In addition to its maluses, Shell is a scene-long.
Shell
Rank 3 Metis Gift / Rank 3 Croatan Gift
Consider the state of a metis cub. He is outcast from birth, knows this from the moment he can talk, and is trapped within a body that reacts powerfully to his slightest emotional twinge. Once you appreciate this state, it becomes easy to understand how this Gift was first learned. Shell places an emotional and instinctual barrier around the metis. A turtle-spirit teaches this Gift.
System: While active, the metis cannot use Rage nor achieve any successes on Rage rolls, nor will mind-altering Gifts or magic affect him. However, he can also not attempt any rolls using Empathy or Primal-Urge, and suffers a -1 penalty on all initiative rolls.
Updated System from 20th Anniversary Edition: The player rolls Willpower (difficulty of the character's own Rage). Success insulates the metis for a scene behind a mystical and psychological barrier, immunizing him against mind-altering magic of all kinds for the rest of the scene. However, he cannot gain any successes on Empathy, Primal-Urge or Rage rolls, nor can he spend Rage points.
Source: Players' Guide to Garou (revised) / 20th Anniversary Edition
- Location
- Estonia
[X] Stonewall him, you are not going to reveal your sources (Charisma+Etiquette vs ???)
-[X] Etiquette Excellency + Boiling Sea Mastery
Sure, but if we fail there's a difference between getting caught for not giving an answer vs. getting caught for (basically) lying.
-[X] Etiquette Excellency + Boiling Sea Mastery
Sure, but if we fail there's a difference between getting caught for not giving an answer vs. getting caught for (basically) lying.
1) I don't really see this as more deceptive than the fey have been with us. We can't be surprised and we can look back at people who do. That's even what we did here.
We're just not mentioning we can also look back at other times.
2) Harry didn't press him for sources because his reputation is good enough for people to actually take a "trust me bro". We're new, which is why he feels like he can ask in the first place.
Are we universally using revised here? Cause the source I got it from didn't have a duration or activation roll.
Given what it does to the user that seems fair to me.
Thousand mile teleport that appears to bypass the need for a base rite.
I'm also curious about the potential for a minion getting the following:
Traveling the pattern web and using phone lines aren't exactly the same, but with the WoD backend for wacky tech magic stuff puts them pretty close together and DF doesn't have a separate thing for the web anyway.
They're even taught by the same type of spirit.
So if we made a minion who possessed both of these could they Matrix their way across the planet with a small group?
1)Short of infection by Nemesis? The Fae cant lie. Thats a guarantee they have in diplomatic dealings that we dont share.
And I will remind you that even then, people treat negotiations with the Fae carefully because of the way they can parse words if they so choose. I dont think we want people treating our word like the Fae.
Also remember that Odin isnt Fae.
Based on his discussion with Harry in Cold Days, I think his Kris Kringle persona is not allowed to tell untruths, but Im pretty sure both his Donnar Vadderung and One-Eye personas can.
We really dont want to play those games with someone who predates every modern legal code.
2)Harry didnt press him because he had no way of doing so.
Furthermore, information like that is almost never free in the Dresden Files, and Harry probably couldnt pay the price for it even if it was on the table. There's a reason Ivy told us to hold our secrets close.
1) I think we default to W20 as primary source for ExWoD things, just like we have V20 for vamp things and M20 for mage things. Thats my impression, at least. Usually the Gifts dont differ materially between editions.
2) Open Moon Bridge is Dragons Nest to Dragons Nest only.
I considered it for Olivia, but it doesnt really make sense for a Molly clone.
I dont like the potential limitations of Phone Travel, especially given how much of the setting is beyond landline service.
Web Walker makes you faster in parts of the NeverNever where there is a Pattern Web.
If there isnt, no dice.
1) Everyone in the supernatural world is exacting about their wording, it's how the game is played. I fully expect Odin to do this sort of thing to us if he hasn't already regardless of what we do.
Why shouldn't we play this game with him? He's very good, but he's not impossible to contest. Picking out a technical truth over a phone call on something he has incomplete information on that he cannot prove false because we actually can and have used our powers in the way described is not an easy task.
We've killed things older than modern metallurgy, just being older doesn't mean he's definitely going to win this exchange.
2) If he had I'd expect Odin to twist his response in knots as a matter of course. If he's not it's because he's good enough to give you just enough information to do it yourself.
1) Fair, but I think it's worth checking at least
2) I get that, but dragon nest teleports are still safer and more direct than the Ways. If we had some minions who could run VIP transport runs there's a lot we could get done with it.
There's some amount of localization required with all this stuff. The pattern web doesn't exist in the DF. What does exist is nevernever territory that's influenced by modern stuff to at least some extent.
Since the phone travel powers have mechanics that reference the gauntlet for establishing transmission anyway treating all these things as the same keep powers that refer to it useable.
Phone travel like that would be very useful, because you can skip the part where you physically run around along the Ways and shoot directly along cables to your target. It's not instant free teleportation, but DF doesn't really do that.
If we're talking transportation for wizards and similar it'd be pretty up there in terms of transport options.
- Location
- Perth, Scotland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Stonewall him, you are not going to reveal your sources (Charisma+Etiquette vs ???)
-[X] Etiquette Excellency + Boiling Sea Mastery
-[X] Etiquette Excellency + Boiling Sea Mastery
- Location
- Brazil
[X] uju32
Molly's past actions: helping to defeat an Outsider ambush on WC wizards, helping to free two fairy courts from Nemesis, fighting and giving true death to a full Walker at the Wampire party, and stopping the Outsides from opening a back portal and destroy half of the North American continent. And has the approval of Heaven.
To the ask made by Odin, my answer is: Is there anyone in the last few months who has frustrated the Outsiders more than me? No? So I think you can trust me.
Furthermore, why do we always have to answer any questions people ask us? Our history, family situation and our actions mean nothing? Do we have to constantly explain ourselves even to those we have had previous dealings with?
Molly's past actions: helping to defeat an Outsider ambush on WC wizards, helping to free two fairy courts from Nemesis, fighting and giving true death to a full Walker at the Wampire party, and stopping the Outsides from opening a back portal and destroy half of the North American continent. And has the approval of Heaven.
To the ask made by Odin, my answer is: Is there anyone in the last few months who has frustrated the Outsiders more than me? No? So I think you can trust me.
Furthermore, why do we always have to answer any questions people ask us? Our history, family situation and our actions mean nothing? Do we have to constantly explain ourselves even to those we have had previous dealings with?
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- Location
- Right Where I Am
The bracket isn't closed on the X. Your vote won't count in a tally.
Source wise the order is V20/M20/W20 -> Revised -> Anything older. The reason for this is with the 20th anniversary editions they at least tried for some kind of cross-splat coordination and rules for crossover play.
OK, and sorry to ping you here, but what part of my proposed vote (since it's the in the lead for misdirection) is a lie at all? At most, it's a fae truth.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
@DragonParadox Errors. Also can we please get an answer to this?
Missing "I" after how.
List of Ill Repute
Unless this is referring to two different things you only need the one "and something else".
Maybe needs a question mark.
Down the Rabbit Hole
Missing"it" after is.
Also really only need one of these "just".
You do not have line of sight... and that thing is a curse, it would be an obvious attack for anyone with supernatural perceptions.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
@DragonParadox
These two left.
Edit:
These two left.
Missing "it" after is.
Edit:
I want to be absolutely clear as to how this works. If we had a proper focus for Odin would we be able to use it on him without line of sight?
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- Location
- portugal
[X] Plan: To bullshit a bullshitter