Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

I don't think the Black Council are cultists though. I think they've an agenda that they're willing to take extreme risks to achieve, but I think Cowl and co want to do something like introduce a magocracy with themselves in charge not have the world eaten by outsiders.

They're trying to use the outsiders, and the outsiders and trying to use them, both planning to stab the other party in the back right before the other's ultimate victory.
I am fairly sure this is not Black Council (at least in its totality), but a separate conspiracy, possibly with some overlapping members.
It's not, the DF RPG that Butcher approved of made it very clear that a red vampire is not the same as a the person who it was born from. It's a newborn creature with the memories of the host.

The unclear part is if the soul is heavily damaged by the process or not, but continuity of consciousness for the human host follows with the soul. DF is very much a "you are a soul, you have a body" sort of setting.

Edit:

Here's a post from DP on it:
Ok. It still remains a possiblity (how known and accepted is this in-universe?), but even if it's a remote possiblity, giving Red Court vital information is still a very real course of action that needs to be prevented.
 
[X] Trainees: The bare bones, there are lots of evil wizards infiltrating the White Council
[X] Carlos: The bare bones of the conspiracy
 
The lady has access to Lores of Fundament, Wind, Storms, Beasts, Wild and possibly Fire, all of which give her additional options for offense, defense and evasion.
It is my understanding that she has access to all lores, just not as favored (house?) ones. On offense and defense, awakening 4 seems to be the next logical step.
 
[X] Trainees: The bare bones, there are lots of evil wizards infiltrating the White Council
[X] Carlos: The bare bones of the conspiracy
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Aug 20, 2024 at 6:37 AM, finished with 78 posts and 12 votes.

  • [X] Trainees: The bare bones, there are lots of evil wizards infiltrating the White Council
    [X] Carlos: The bare bones of the conspiracy
    [X] Plan Minimal Information
    -[X] Trainees: You discovered a Plot against the White council.
    -[X] Carlos: Like Trainees + You discovered Outsider involvement and will bring the Information directly to the senior council. You have hints that he is not the only affected Warden.
    [x] Carols: Admit that you knew something was the matter months earlier as was Harry and McCoy, but they did not know who to trust
 
I am fairly sure this is not Black Council (at least in its totality), but a separate conspiracy, possibly with some overlapping members.
I don't think there's any reason to believe this isn't just the black council. Peabody is a core member of the group and there isn't a lot of room in the white council this kind of thing.

Ok. It still remains a possiblity (how known and accepted is this in-universe?), but even if it's a remote possiblity, giving Red Court vital information is still a very real course of action that needs to be prevented
Maybe they'd try to leak information to the court or align themselves with it, but definitely not join it. Not sure how well known the mechanics of the change are to people in general, but powerful wizards are more likely to be aware of the situation.
 
Arc 14 Post 8: Of Monsters and Gods
Of Monsters and Gods

18th of February 2007 A.D.

"It's not just the one," you explain to the trainees. "The White Council has been infiltrated by several evil wizards..." Several sounds like less than a dozen without technically being a lie, no need to panic them. "These are people willing and able to break the Laws in subtle ways..."

"Don't you go crazy if you break the Laws?" Tina asks sitting up. "That's what everyone told us, like you want to break them more and more until you're not even 'you' anymore just like a serial killer or a...." She glances at one of the nearer vampires and changes the word she was about to use: "Monster."

Ho, boy I am not the one who should be having this conversation, you think, but before you can give it the ol' College try Carlos steps in.

"Depends on when you do it and how you do it. Someone falling off the cliff without even knowing there's a cliff is going to flail and scream all the way down, but if they know what they're doing, if they throw themselves off then they can be quiet."

"But... but... it's like that liver an' beans feller, what they' call him?" Terry scratches his head and offers. "Hans Lecter? A dozen of him can't make a team right, they'd be all up in each other's livers."

Some of the others look a little green at the comparison, some are nodding and a few are fighting back a case of the inappropriate giggles. You can relate.

You hate to take the comfort away from them but better that they find out now than in the field some day. "Not how that works, monsters don't have to be stupid." There are a lot of silent nods among the Jade Dogs.

"Isabela..."

"No need to tell me, not going home tonight don't wanna catch some kind of spook like that ass who screwed with my laptop, hang tight and make sure the future White Council enforcement wing doesn't get bored and start setting the pool room on fire."

"Hey...!"

"You have a pool room...?"

"I think they'll be OK," you say dragging Carlos to a Sarah's newly vacated office to lay out the truth in slightly more detail, not all the detail, not even close, but everything you shared with McCoy and everything he's shared with you as you work the phone.

Harry assures you he'll get right on calling his old teacher, though he's less enthusiastic on Morgan, more for your sake than his own you suspect. If anyone would be paranoid enough to realize how much you know it would be Donald Morgan. Little though you may know the man that much you're sure of. Tiff is coming of course, she sounds like she's been getting bored since the trip into Hell, but you are surprised that Olivia jumps at the chance to help the Council without a moment's hesitation. Then again maybe it's less 'the White Council' and more kids she can see herself in.

Regain 1 Essence -> Now at 12/18

Then you pull out Donnar's card... Given his reputation some of the Senior Council may not thank you for involving him, but that's OK since it means there will be a Senior Council to get upset.

"We have an Outsider problem..." you start recounting the same things you did to Carlos, the presence, its awareness of you and the previous suspicions of traitors in the Council. "You need to warn the Merlin and the Gatekeeper."

The old man waits through your whole account, not interrupting once then asks bluntly: "How do you know it's an Outsider problem? No, let me rephrase that, how do you know it's an Outsider problem significant enough to warn the Gatekeeper?"

[] Stonewall him, you are not going to reveal your sources (Charisma+Etiquette vs ???)

[] Try to feed him the same half-truth you did Carlos about being able to see when someone is spying on you and look back (Lie: Charisma+Subterfuge against ???)

[] Write in


OOC: Maeve would have been annoying in her own way, Odin is inquisitive, that is part of his nature. One thing to just say 'I'm good at divination' quite another to claim to have cracked a conspiracy that has eluded the Council for decades,
 
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[X] Stonewall him, you are not going to reveal your sources (Charisma+Etiquette vs ???)
-[X] "That's something I cannot share, no more than I would expect you to share the secrets of your power."
 
[X] Stonewall him, you are not going to reveal your sources (Charisma+Etiquette vs ???)
-[X] "That's something I cannot share, no more than I would expect you to share the secrets of your power."
That's just telling him that there's definitely something to look for in how we look for things.

Better to lie, worst case is that he sees through it and that just leaves us in the best case of the other option.
 
not all the detail, not even close, but everything you shared with McCoy and everything he's shared with you as you work the phone.
I don't recall this happening on screen though I know we didn't give him a list of traitors so what exactly did we tell McCoy?

Also if we are going to try deceiving Odin we need water for the DC reducer.. or extra dice whichever it was.
 
[X] Stonewall him, you are not going to reveal your sources (Charisma+Etiquette vs ???)
-[X] "That's something I cannot share, no more than I would expect you to share the secrets of your power."

Also, if it's a question of 'Is Molly correct' about this then maybe: "If it turns out I'm wrong about this being significant enough to warn the Gatekeeper, I'll spend three AP making you cool shit. Really cool shit if you provide the materials."

If it's "I trust your judgement on this, but I just wanna know how you know," then stonewalling is our best option.
Lying feels rude, in that I think at some point he's gonna have that lie tested.
 
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[X] Try to feed him the same half-truth you did Carlos about being able to see when someone is spying on you and look back (Lie: Charisma+Subterfuge against ???)
-[X] When abyss dares gaze into me, I look back, and my sight is sharp, oh Father of Hosts. This one I recognize, for I have seen it before. it is Not-Man, Once-Man, Husk, by name Ashraaah, perversion of everything that is the Image of God.
 
[X] Try to feed him the same half-truth you did Carlos about being able to see when someone is spying on you and look back (Lie: Charisma+Subterfuge against ???)
-[X] When abyss dares gaze into me, I look back, and my sight is sharp, oh Father of Hosts. This one I recognize, for I have seen it before. it is Not-Man, Once-Man, Husk, by name Ashraaah, perversion of everything that is the Image of God.
 
[X] Stonewall him, you are not going to reveal your sources (Charisma+Etiquette vs ???)
-[O] "I'm not gonna lie to you." [Is silent]
-[X] "That's something I cannot share, no more than I would expect you to share the secrets of your power."
 
[X] Stonewall him, you are not going to reveal your sources (Charisma+Etiquette vs ???)
-[x] "I'm not gonna lie to you." [Is silent]


I am not against lying per se, but it does have consequences.
I expect us to interact with Odin more in the future, and to tell him more information not easily explained.
If we begin to lie to him now, it is very probable to come out sooner or later.
I would prefer just to stonewall him here than to tell more and more lies over time.
 
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@BeepSmile Why is your vote structured that way? It's got an O instead of an X, is Molly supposed to say both lines or just one?
[X] Stonewall him, you are not going to reveal your sources (Charisma+Etiquette vs ???)
-[O] "I'm not gonna lie to you." [Is silent]
-[X] "That's something I cannot share, no more than I would expect you to share the secrets of your power."
[X] Stonewall him, you are not going to reveal your sources (Charisma+Etiquette vs ???)
-[O] "I'm not gonna lie to you." [Is silent]
'twas but a jape!
 
@DragonParadox we appear to be missing a point of Intelligence on the character sheet.

[X] Try to feed him the same half-truth you did Carlos about being able to see when someone is spying on you and look back (Lie: Charisma+Subterfuge against ???)
-[X] When abyss dares gaze into me, I look back, and my sight is sharp, oh Father of Hosts. This one I recognize, for I have seen it before. it is Not-Man, Once-Man, Husk, by name Ashraaah, perversion of everything that is the Image of God.
 
[X] Try to feed him the same half-truth you did Carlos about being able to see when someone is spying on you and look back (Lie: Charisma+Subterfuge against ???)
-[X] When abyss dares gaze into me, I look back, and my sight is sharp, oh Father of Hosts. This one I recognize, for I have seen it before. it is Not-Man, Once-Man, Husk, by name Ashraaah, perversion of everything that is the Image of God.
 
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