I think one of the most achievable diplomatic goals is saving the child. A lot of people, from admirals to citizens, are going to find the execution of a child distasteful. There are plenty of ways one might choose to go about doing so and I welcome you to try.
Making the players choose objectively worse options to not have to deal with kind of laborious and annoying slog will lead to players refraining from engaging future plotlines that could result in the same situation.
The option in question had the obvious downside of "this may piss off the Dynasts". This was pointed out by several voters. And the existense of said downside means the other option was absolutely not "objectively worse".
Bluntly, I do not think we should be trying to save any of them other than the child. He is the only one we have any real hope of managing to secure the release of diplomatically without damaging our relations too heavily with the PMC and I do not think we are getting the others out without the immediate use of force.
Going with Hard Nosed is going to end up with us at war with the immediately adversarial stance it takes and the move to take over what remains of the Chambrestrongs, while also getting the dynasts all summarily executed. Not exactly what the Citizens Council wants from us.
Bluntly, I do not think we should be trying to save any of them other than the child. He is the only one we have any real hope of managing to secure the release of diplomatically without damaging our relations too heavily with the PMC and I do not think we are getting the others out without the immediate use of force.
I have no expectation of success in securing anyone else's release, but unfortunately we do need to maintain appearances for the Council, so I think it's worth making enough of an effort to look credible.
I guess it doesn't hurt to try asking as long as we aren't really expecting to get the adults back. Was a little unsure about the revised Slow Walk making the adults a point of contention but it seems pretty clearly intended to just ask and see what we can get rather than really drawing a red line over them so whatever.
I have no expectation of success in securing anyone else's release, but unfortunately we do need to maintain appearances for the Council, so I think it's worth making enough of an effort to look credible.
Yeah, I don't expect them to want to go for it, but the Council has asked us to do so and we should make an effort, even if we disagree with the Council.
But I do draw the line at military action and blowing up the system for the sake of three people. Will we win the resulting war? Almost certainly. Will it lead to the release of the three Dynasts? Probably not, since they'll probably be killed in the crossfire or by the PMC before we can get to them.
But even if we win, we'll then have to occupy S'Taxu with more ships and more troops and rather than having a cooperative population, willing to integrate, we'll be waging a long war of occupation - which we probably can and will win, as long as the political will remains. But that too has a cost - and perhaps pertinently, we will likely lose access to some of the population / personnel we've been receiving either because they won't want to work with us or because we'll just have to exclude them for security reasons.
Yeah, I don't expect them to want to go for it, but the Council has asked us to do so and we should make an effort, even if we disagree with the Council.
But I do draw the line at military action and blowing up the system for the sake of three people. Will we win the resulting war? Almost certainly. Will it lead to the release of the three Dynasts? Probably not, since they'll probably be killed in the crossfire or by the PMC before we can get to them.
But even if we win, we'll then have to occupy S'Taxu with more ships and more troops and rather than having a cooperative population, willing to integrate, we'll be waging a long war of occupation - which we probably can and will win, as long as the political will remains. But that too has a cost - and perhaps pertinently, we will likely lose access to some of the population / personnel we've been receiving either because they won't want to work with us or because we'll just have to exclude them for security reasons.
But even if we win, we'll then have to occupy S'Taxu with more ships and more troops and rather than having a cooperative population, willing to integrate, we'll be waging a long war of occupation - which we probably can and will win, as long as the political will remains. But that too has a cost - and perhaps pertinently, we will likely lose access to some of the population / personnel we've been receiving either because they won't want to work with us or because we'll just have to exclude them for security reasons.
To be honest we should also consider the civilian populace that's lived a number of years under a constant cold (occasionally hot) war that in living memory has lead to orbital bombardments (alleged dome cracking), and now nuclear holocaust. There will always be those who resist to the last drop of blood but I'm genuinely curious how appealing the promise of a stable government and security from danger is to many of these people.
Yeah, I don't expect them to want to go for it, but the Council has asked us to do so and we should make an effort, even if we disagree with the Council.
But I do draw the line at military action and blowing up the system for the sake of three people.
It is not for the sake of three people. It for the sake of Home and the Service. HSWS was the guarantor of status quo in S'Taxu and especially since it has already failed it cannot afford to abdicate on its responsibility or it is meaningless and ought to be disbanded as its only accomplishments to date are dead Servicefolk.
It is not for the sake of three people. It for the sake of Home and the Service. HSWS was the guarantor of status quo in S'Taxu and especially since it has already failed it cannot afford to abdicate on its responsibility or it is meaningless and ought to be disbanded as its only accomplishments to date are dead Servicefolk.
If you're going to argue that we should demand some kind of justice for our lost at gunpoint and simultaneously, out of the other side of your mouth, insist on our notional failure to preserve the status quo from an outbreak of raw insanity, why should anyone give us anything? By your own logic we did nothing worth the recompense.
The truth is that the HSWS sailors who died in S'Taxu 4 orbit died doing one of the only truly pure and noble things we will ever do, fighting to make sure that nuclear weapons were not used on civilians. Even those lost to the Junta were still making sure their stations weren't firing on the planetary surface. This kind of grubbing for reward cheapens it.
If you're going to argue that we should demand some kind of justice for our lost at gunpoint and simultaneously, out of the other side of your mouth, insist on our notional failure to preserve the status quo from an outbreak of raw insanity, why should anyone give us anything? By your own logic we did nothing worth the recompense.
Yes. Exactly why it would be necessary for the prestige of the Service to make these demands. Home has set up itself as final arbiter in Staxu. If the authority is challenged it needs to be reinforced, or lost.
Edit: a lot of talk has been about "they are sentencing eleven year old to death", but for big picture "they are sentencing ..." is the issue. END EDIT.
On a human level there should be some reckonings over killings of Service personnel, because killing Service personnel indiscriminately us very much not okay for anybody. (Plus service authority)
[X] OPLAN: Slow Walk
-[X] Write-In: Perform back-alley negotiations/communications with the PMC. Expend diplomatic capital (such as forgiveness of incurred aid debt that might otherwise be called in) to convince them to commute the sentence (conditional on the individuals actually not being responsible for execution of UNTHINKBLE) of the three survivors to exile to Home space, on pain of death if they ever return to the S'taxu system in any capacity (they cannot transit through S'Taxu even as a passenger) and a complete release of all claims to rulership etc. Inform them that the HSWS and Home desire peace, stability, and good relations, but that some concessions will avoid ruffled feathers in the future and ease cooperation and economic recovery for S'Taxu-4 and the S'Taxu system.
-[X] Write-In: Provide continual Fleet Landing Forces deployment in peacekeeping and aid operations; FLF Rangers, our in-house SOF squadron, will be attached to search for remaining Dynast and Xyphoni high-value personnel who may have survived, such as the Lady Diana Mechtilde. If the Lady Mechtilde is located AND efforts to release the Marquess fail, she is to be transported to Home under absolute secrecy and her death "verified" as part of our diplomatic break with the PMC.
-[X] HSWS Military Intelligence Corps
-[X] Continue to negotiate with the Aslan. Attempt to hire advisors in the design and operation of small strike-craft and larger carriers.
-[X] Design and produce a landing ship which can deploy FLF Forces; up to five craft (dependent on final carrying capacity), each capable of carrying and deploying at least company of FLIF and supporting landings with orbit-to-ground or ship-to-station fire and potentially carrying the fighter-bombers as a contributing strike package or self-defense. Look into potential MMV variant, as well as entirely purpose-built craft as design alternatives.
-[X] Design and produce a single experimental carrier for further development of strikecraft operations and doctrine and to serve as a defense vessel for Home.
-[X] Design and produce a small courier / cargo vessel to establish a permanent military "mail service" between far-flung outposts and HSWS HQ so we can stop relying on our DSS, etc. as makeshift couriers.
-[X] Look into potential refit options for older craft, such as the system destroyers.
-[X] Continue to produce the Multi-Mission Vehicle as rapidly as possible, as budget and yard space allows.
-[X] Continue to produce the Interstellar Cruiser block IIa as possible, secondary to the MMV.
-[X] Continue to produce the new missile frigate as possible; at least one frigate per larger MMV or cruiser laid down or currently in active service.
-[X] Perform sensor sweeps "south", beyond Heimdall to get an idea of what lies beyond
-[X] Deploy forces:
--[X] Maintain OPLAN Bowshot forces in S'Taxu until the crisis is over, aid has slowed, and they are no longer needed to conduct missions or maintain our stronger diplomatic presence.
--[X] Heimdall Station: After conclusion of Bowshot - one IC and two escorts, when available, in Heimdall to protect the mining and fueling operations and to act as a tripwire force.
--[X] S'Taxu Station: After conclusion of Bowshot - one IC and two escorts, when available, as a permanent S'Taxu station.
--[X] Home Defense Station: Monitor, two IC, six escorts when constructed, as the main Home Defense Fleet (plus orbitals and system defense ships).
--[X] Expeditionary Station: After conclusion of Bowshot - 2 IC, 1 MMV, 1 FSS, Scout Flotilla - available for exploration and exploration escort or other expeditionary missions. headquartered in Home, but can be deployed as necessary.
--[X] Reserve Station: After conclusion of Bowshot - four IC, eight escorts when available; "stationed" in Home, but generally available to be deployed in case of emergency. Generally ships who are doing rest/refit and preparing to be cycled out to other duty stations.
[X] OPLAN: Shadow Marshal
-[X] HSWS Military Intelligence Corps
-[X] Write-in: Make all possible diplomatic attempts to preserve the life of the Marquess Chambrestrong alone. Offer money, weapons, the revocation of titles-anything to make clear that the death of a child will not wash off from the hands that enact it, and that such illegal orders threaten a permanent diplomatic break.
-[X] Write-in: Make clear that we will not interfere with the trials of any adult Chambrestrong survivors, but that we require those trials be fair and impartial; offer all legal and diplomatic aid, including the work of our nascent SWS JAG corps, in arraigning and interrogating Dynasty personnel and leadership for trial.
-[X] Provide continual Fleet Landing Forces deployment in peacekeeping and aid operations; FLF Rangers, our in-house SOF squadron, will be attached to search for remaining Dynast and Xyphoni high-value personnel who may have survived, such as the Lady Diana Mechtilde. If the Lady Mechtilde is located AND efforts to release the Marquess fail, she is to be transported to Home under absolute secrecy and her death "verified" as part of our diplomatic break with the PMC.
-[X] Scouting towards and around Hermosa, since the Heimdall station is soon to be online.
-[X] Design and produce a carrier ship which can deploy the X-40 or similar strike craft. Begin with one prototype and long-term flight testing.
-[X] Design and produce a landing ship which can deploy FLForces at company or battalion strength; build at least 5, enough to deploy most of a full squadron out of our current operational wing (two squadrons) of FLF troops.
-[X] Continue to produce the Multi-Mission Vehicle as rapidly as possible.
-[X] Continue to produce the Interstellar Cruiser block IIa as possible, secondary to the MMV.
-[X] Deploy and maintain deployment of Bowshot forces (hereafter Task Force Angelus) with full FLF ground support until conclusion of S'taxu crisis. Consider this a long-term security assistance and humanitarian aid mission.
[X] Message to PMC: "You knew something would happen and did not inform us. On contrary, you've sent a warship to the planet which could be interpreted as attempt to aid at anti-Chambestrong effort.
[X] Seize the remaining Chamnbestrong space infrastructure, such as naval yards. Inform remaining Chambestrong servicemen, that if they want to survive the inevitable purges by new autorities on S'Taxu, they should cooperate with us. Have them seize for us the Capital City and anything that survived from Chambestrong infrastructure planetside. We are going to "safeguard" these as to protect the people from purges, until the true investigation is done.
[X] Continue to negotiate with the Aslan. Have embassies open, have a "naval attachee and supporting staff" added to each embassy. At least part of "supporting staff" should be EWaFaR people. Hire a lot of SIS personnel to EWaFaR there.
[X] Have embassies with naval attachees ant supporting staff open in all Xyri factions. Study the security situation there, how likely is the conflict in system.
[X] Have embassy and naval attachee and supporting staff open at Nova Refugio. Learn about people there - are they political dissidents? Religious dissidents? Send them some supplies on regular basis. If we are already sending, send more. Learn whatever they can tell us about Hermosa. Ease them to our presense.
[X] Continue to produce the Interstellar Cruiser block IIa and Frigates as possible (we can possibly lose the PMC yard space, we need to build smaller ships at the moment).
The Months That Follow
Operations on the surface of S'Taxu-4 slowly but surely drag to an end. The dust clouds settle, weeks pass, and it slowly becomes apparent that there are no more survivors trapped and now the problem is fundamentally one for the civil architects and engineers, not military search and rescue. The FLF Rangers stay on the surface, assisting in the deployment of aid from Cassalon transport barges and ensuring there is at least some modicum of peaceful life for the refugees and survivors of this nuclear terror. There are two notable incidents where the FLF are forced to engage with lethal force, both well within their rules of engagement: a Xyphoni attack on an aid convoy is turned back with relative ease and only a single casualty amongst the FLF, while an attempted attack on a religious gathering turns into a gun battle on the steps of an ad-hoc house of worship. Three men and a woman with ties to the Chambrestrong Dynasty are killed.
During negotiations it rapidly becomes clear that the PMC and representatives of Cassalon are not interested in negotiating for the release of their captives. Valaria is arguably the next in line for control of the Duchy and thus constitutes a figurehead behind which monarchists could rally. Damjana is less closely tied to the family, but is nonetheless ennobled and was closely involved with Dynastic politicking and power-brokering. Neither of these women will see out the year, considered guilty even before bringing up the events of the last months. They were, after all, part of the ruling class that threw the entire system into internecine conflict.
The boy, however, is a different matter. Nobody is particularly in love with the idea of executing a child, there was simply no other option. He cannot be allowed to grow up on S'Taxu, where a thousand political groups will attempt to sway him to their side. Fortunately, Home offers another option; the abrogation of at least part of the aid bill, a new name and a caretaker family who will raise him in something approaching normality aboard an orbital station that circles Home. He will, of course, never be allowed to return to S'Taxu but that is considered a small price for his life. Julius Danial Stefan Chambrestrong dies in S'Taxu - but Julian Demirci will hopefully have a full and long life in Home.
S'Taxu will recover, and a new government will form from the fires of nuclear war. The Peoples Military Council has always considered itself a temporary body necessary for fighting off the Dynasts threat to the rest of the system and now, with their power shattered, it can be reincorporated back into the system. The Democratic Republic of Cassalon will inherit control of the entire system, with the Peoples Military of Cassalon becoming simply the armed forces of the state. They do have several quite reasonable requests and demands during the ongoing negotiations with Home that incorporate the transition of power;
- S'Taxu - or Cassalon - is not prepared to defend itself at this time, focused as it will be on the survival of its people and rebuilding the cities that have been devastated. It is requested that people from Cassalon be able to volunteer and enlist in the HSWS, as they have been up until now, and that the HSWS inherently take on the defence of Cassalon's space as if it was our own. This is fundamentally a continuation of current policies, formalised with the transition of power.
- Cassalon will continue to provide 4,000 dTons of yard space to the HSWS for construction of militarily vital ships and ship components, and will also provide 500MCr. of additional funding to assist in this construction and to the maintenance of the fleet.
- Cassalon will retain control of the defence asteroids, the four Dynast SDB's and any other in-system forces, but would be pleased to cross train their defence forces with the HSWS to ensure compatibility of doctrine and strategy.
- In return, Home will recognise Cassalon, allow the construction of civilian jump ships in Cassalon yards and allow open trade between Cassalon and Home.
The Citizens Council is unhappy about the loss of two significant survivors of the Chambrestrong Dynasty, having considered them to be a useful tool they could have held over the heads of the people of S'Taxu. They will, however, accept the complete economic and military reliance on Home that Cassalon has agreed too, and they already have plans to further ensure that reliance as time goes on. After all, the people of Cassalon are going to need a great deal of aid as they recover...
New Deployments, New Construction - 09y00m00w
The HSWS undergoes a period of reorganisation as new ships come out of the yards, new stations are established and new postings are formulated. From hereon out, the Service will be organised into the following established groups (several ships listed are not yet with the fleet but will be in time): Home Fleet - The Interstellar Monitor, two Interstellar Cruisers, one Multi Mission Vehicle, six Frigate, Fleet Escorts, one Flotilla Support Ship. Heimdall Station - Two Interstellar Cruisers until the arrival of the Frigate, Fleet Escort then the post becomes one IC and two FFE's on rotation. Cassalon Station - Two Interstellar Cruisers until the arrival of the Frigate, Fleet Escort then the post becomes one IC and two FFE's on rotation. Expeditionary Force - Two Interstellar Cruisers, one Multi Mission Vehicle, one Flotilla Support Ship. 1st Scout Flotilla - As already described. Reserve Station - All other ships, especially those on rest and refit
This creates six new formal and permanent postings for five Flight Commodores (O-7) and a single Vice-Marshal (O-8) and plans for a total force strength of eight cruisers, two MMV's and ten FFE's in the permanent force structure. This will require, according to estimates, fourteen cruisers, at least three MMV's and preferably four, and 16-18 FFE's.
If you would like to design patches for these forces, I have been using this generator. Any submitted will be voted on in the next update.
With 5,000 dTons available in yards, the Service considers the following to be a reasonable construction plan for the beginning of our tenth year;
- 2 x Interstellar Cruiser block IIa - 783.18MCr.
- 4 x FFE (2nd tranche) - 757.04MCr.
For a total cost at the start of the year of 1540.22MCr. This would leave 2,000 tons and around 700MCr. for experimental construction and planning, especially of the courier concept and the small carrier. It is broadly understood that at the beginning of next year we will lay down a second MMV, slow-rolling the deployment of the class but ensuring that there are enough ships to cover our stations in the short term.
Regarding other planned forces there are some simple choices to make: The courier will be a small, fast ship capable of multiple jumps. It should be capable of (choose 1+):
[ ] Four jumps on internal fuel (40% of tonnage)
[ ] Defending itself against minor threats
[ ] High speed transit between the main world and the jump point.
[ ] Carrying priority cargo and passengers between systems.
[ ] Not be intended to fly in system, relying on local shuttles and ships.
[ ] Other - write in. The Landing Ship will carry multiple platoon landing shuttles. It should be capable of (choose 1+):
[ ] Deploying a Company strength formation (3 platoons plus HQ - 150 FLF - 4 shuttles) - ~550 tons
[ ] Deploying a Battalion strength formation (3 infantry coys, 1 fires coy, 1 rangers coy - 772 FLF - 20 shuttles) - 3,000 tons
[ ] Supporting a landing with ortillery missiles
[ ] Supporting a landing with ortillery torpedoes
[ ] Supporting a landing with ortillery mass drivers
[ ] Defending itself against incidental fire
[ ] Defending itself against concerted attack
[ ] Other - write-in
Next Update: Aslan, Scouting South, Refits
Please present any votes as a plan. Voting opens at
Jump range is probably the most important part of the courier, and realspace speed...depends on what you view its role as. If it's just bringing the mail, then electronic transmission is always faster than a ship. If it's supposed to provide some cargo and passenger carrying for utility purposes, speed might be useful. I view the news as more important than the utility transport role, but they're not mutually exclusive. The fact our ships use relatively few crew means that being able to lift just a few people to make up for an accident or outbreak of particularly nasty colds is not a marginal benefit.
The Landing Ship has more immediate doctrinal impacts as to what you see the FLF as doing and how it's doing it. My personal opinion would be the battalion landing force (better to be able to come heavy and not need it), missiles (for a relatively selectable yield of fire on target), and incidental fire; the task of securing entry to orbit and suppressing ground fire should be handled by our warships. That does mean that it can't really be left alone, even in landing operations, and will need a couple of Fleet Escorts at least when it goes anywhere.
[X] PLAN - Fast as F**k boi and Assault Carrier
-[X] Four jumps on internal fuel (40% of tonnage)
-[X] Carrying priority cargo and passengers between systems.
-[X] High speed transit between the main world and the jump point.
-[X] Other - minimal point-defense armament.
-[X] Deploying a Battalion strength formation (3 infantry coys, 1 fires coy, 1 rangers coy - 720 FLF - 20 shuttles) - Approx 6,000 tons
-[X] Supporting a landing with ortillery missiles
-[X] Supporting a landing with ortillery mass drivers
-[X] Defending itself against incidental fire
-[X] Other - At minimum a flight of X-40s to provide close escort and air support for FLF landings. If possible expand this to a full squadron if this does not compromise on the other requirements - if not feasible, keep the reduced complement to a single flight.
-[X] Other - on-board hospital facilities and staff to manage receiving, triaging, stabilising, damage-control surgery and the initial recovery of casualties.
-[X] Other - a detachment of CASEVAC, SAR and general utility shuttles to support the embarked battalion and squadron.
A preliminary plan here. Staying focused on a small, speedy aviso design to improve the speed and reliability of our communications, with maybe a PD turret or two just for self-defense.
Going big on the carrier design. I think if we want to have an expeditionary capability a battalion is really the minimum size of force we want to be deploying, anything smaller is only suited for policing actions. Including an embarked squadron of X-40s to provide organic air support. If we find a 40-ton craft is too big that would also leave enough room to perhaps downsize to x2 smaller tonnage squadrons.
The Democratic Republic of Cassalon won by waiting out all the rest.
The courier will be a small, fast ship capable of multiple jumps. It should be capable of (choose 1+):
[ ] Four jumps on internal fuel (40% of tonnage) - Strictly speaking, we need 3 yumps to reach Home from Heimdall, but it doesn't hurt to future-proof it.
[ ] Defending itself against minor threats - Nah, it doesn't defend, it runs.
[ ] High speed transit between the main world and the jump point. - Yes, messages need to be delivered fast.
[ ] Carrying priority cargo and passengers between systems. - No, just messages.
[ ] Not be intended to fly in system, relying on local shuttles and ships. - No idea what that even means?
The Landing Ship will carry multiple platoon landing shuttles. It should be capable of (choose 1+):
[ ] Supporting a landing with ortillery missiles / ortillery torpedoes / mass drivers - Unclear. What are the relative advantages of each of these types?
I have no idea what the jump research labs are cooking up, but 40% tankage would make refitting to J2 a lot easier in the long run. But would a bunch of small, fast couriers last long enough for that to be a thing, and still be viable? Probably not. And volume for a larger drive might reduce that to a J2 & J1 range. But hey, even with 30% fuel that'd get you there in two weeks rather than three.
Presumably x-boat style? Jump in, hop on the radio, maybe hook up with a tender or shuttle to transfer anything you can't radio, or refuel, then jump back out without firing up the manoeuvre drive at all.
The traditional Traveller x-boat is basically fuel, a J4 drive, a computer, and a weirdo who doesn't mind barely being able to stretch their legs.
Torpedoes are larger and do more damage. Much less efficient cargo / tonnage-wise, though. Which is why I've gone for missiles and mass drivers on my design. Should provide for a good saturation of orbital fire, mass drivers in case the missiles get interdicted.
Presumably x-boat style? Jump in, hop on the radio, maybe hook up with a tender or shuttle to transfer anything you can't radio, or refuel, then jump back out without firing up the manoeuvre drive at all.
Torpedoes are larger and do more damage. Much less efficient cargo / tonnage-wise, though. Which is why I've for missiles and mass drivers on my design. Should provide for a good saturation of orbital fire, mass drivers in case the missiles get interdicted.
