My plan has sandstrike blast. *shameless self-promotion*
If Outsiders can provide both stealth and power in the same package enough to fool and take on senior council, why is senior council still alive / not subverted?
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
You don't actually expect me to somehow have that information do you? I'm not writing the story and we don't even know what his plans are if he has any.
Maybe Peabody figures that taking on the senior council will get him killed simple as. Getting buffs does not at all mean that your willing to take such risk or capable of fighting so many high tiers without getting killed. It may not be his role to be anything other than a man on the inside for more dangerous people. He's in the perfect position to give detailed information to enemies after all.
I expect you and others to apply logical analysis to the situation. Peabody is a servant of a faction that desires total annihilation of Creation. Not takeover, not change in governance - destruction. This means that the faction he serves, and he by extension do not care about preservation of assets after they won. White Council, and Gatekeeper in particular, are one of the key institutions maintaining supernatural world's stability. If Peabody could defeat them, he would have. Ergo, he cannot, even from an ambush, even with prep. This puts limits on his level of power. Moreover, he hadn't put anyone, including himself, into the Warden's position. Which almost certainly means he cannot.
Peabody is dangerous, but assuming he's combat-dangerous when ambushed is very likely overestimating him. And yes, we absolutely can ambush him.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
1: Sure. That's a fair assumption to make. I don't know what it has to do with anything though. As I said time and time again my position has always been that we don't know enough about the situation to say that the WC can handle it without casualties and that casualties are my loose condition due to the time investment needed for Wizards and the Red war.
2: Why can't he be combat dangerous when cornered? Is there some rule I'm not aware of or are you talking in regards to Molly because I never said I thought we'd struggle to kill Peabody ourselves.
Ok, at this point I think the actual problem in this conversation is that the two sides are discussing different things (and this is the part that makes me think this):
You are discussing the fact that the White council can't take Peabody without casualties, which is the same thing as what happened in canon from what I know by using his compromised assets.
@BronzeTongue and @Yog seems to be conflating your position with Uju's, who thinks that the white council can't take Peabody at all and that he was buffed enough in combat abilities to be a threat to us by himself.
If that is the case, you are actually violently agreeing on some points at this point.
It largely comes down to action economy both magical and actual versus foes that are his equal at minimum or outright his Superior in enemy territory. Even council's members who aren't known for their combat just being there and counter spelling would take 99% of the bite out of spells or just delete them most of the time because spells operate under the same paradigm of everything else you have to throw dice for it multiple people counter spelling means no spells whatsoever Rashid or McCoy could handle all of his mist wraiths by themselves if McCoy focuses on him in that moment he could splatter Peabody across well every given surface within a 10 m radius because Force Magic human bodies are not a good combo.
Langtry just is capable of reading his mind flat out he is a master of mind magic to the point where he's capable of using it to his enhance his abilities. If he gets put in a situation where he is actually cornered there is very little he could possibly do to get out of it and to be got out of it by allies they would need to be strong enough to beat wards that are said to keep out armies of magic users and actual lesser divinities.
Inherently both by how we see counterspelling working in Dresden Files and how it works in world of Darkness if he gets caught by a group of magic users that have active counter spell he just can't cast magic and if he's not capable of casting magic against people who have their own he's going to get literally flattened.
This come down to the fact that every a lot of the white Council senior members are the most powerful Wizards in the last couple hundred years and they are like Arch Mages before Arch spheres were introduced higher Arete, high mastery of their own spheres. Versus Peabody a Eater of the Weak a warlock by another name not an especially strong one either even with Investments which I'm not saying he has but even with them if he's not capable of using them efficiently or effectively because he's outnumbered outgunned and suppressed by wards how can he actually deal them any losses?
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Yes.. though I thought this apparent as I've clarified my position on Peabody several times to avoid a misunderstanding there. Both recently and with BronzeTongue when this topic originally came up. I've always held this stance on Peabody.
Do you know how Peabody gets exposed in turn coat?
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
1: It doesn't make sense to assume the most ideal scenario possible and then ask me how the enemy deals with it. The enemy gets agency too. It may not turn out like that.
2: I do not know what investments he has, what his backers saw fit to give him for his mission. How am I supposed to provide an accurate answer to a combat scenario when I don't know what he has and we don't know what the Outsiders can give?
He's a spy he has to walk into enemy territory every single day he has to walk into the white council's Wards speak to their most powerful Wizards every single day hell if they just call him into the office of the senior Council and tell him it's to dictate a meeting he has to do that and they lock the door behind him. The enemy gets a choice but when you were a spy and you get caught and you don't know your caught your fucked.
No I mean what possible investment could he possibly have that would get him out of that scenario because Investments are also magic and susceptible to counter spelling or Force spells into his spine or having his head filled to the brim with Rule Britannia on Loop for Millennia in one second. What possible investment could he have that would allow him to not be splattered in the four different ways he could be killed or very least immediately incapacitated by the senior counsel if they call him in for a meeting and then lock the door behind them.
That's what I mean by he's a spy if he is not aware that he has been made he can be put into scenarios that are dangerous in dozens of different ways that are completely congruous with his day-to-day operations. What do you think a bunch of lesser members of the white Council are in the room when they're having meetings or none of them have private meetings with only a couple of the membership and the stenographer to take the minutes. He's in a position that thoroughly thrives on him not being known at all.
You didn't answer my question so I'll state it here he's not actually on trial when he gets exposed Morgan is on trial Peabody is walking around completely free when he gets exposed. That's what I mean he's in the almost best possible position for his exposure HE is surrounded by thralls, he's not chained up, the wards aren't turned on him nothing he's completely free and open and he books it as fast as possible. That's why I struggle to think of how they can do worse because to do worse they would need to do worse than no prep time at all.
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If we face any combat challenge from Peabody, I expect it to be I the form of either him throwing bewitched wizards at us, where we have to fight non-lethally or in the form of him calling on some Yomi Wan power that he got access to thanks to our Big Book of Yomi Wan being in his hands. The first has basis in canon. The second is a result of our actions.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Peabody has had years to prepare for the extremely obvious scenario of "But what do I do if I get caught? How will I know that I got caught?".
I do not know what investments DragonParadox has written for the Outsider faction to give and how it may differ depending on the person. I don't know what other types of assets and knowledge they've seen fit to grant him either.
We don't know his plans or assets or investments for escape, combat or otherwise. We know that it should be better than what was displayed in canon and that's about all we can say right now.
Bottom line there's a ton of "we don't know" and that's why I refuse to jump to conclusions.
Okay. So imagine that this version of Peabody is different from the one in the books. Imagine that he has access to options that he didn't in the canon plotline. Realize that we don't know what those options would even be just that they maybe Outsider sourced which is a red flag. You two are way too focused on how this played out in canon and refusing to acknowledge that the variable in question here has been altered. To what degree in unknown.
I think people are too used to using our meta knowledge so when things that don't align with it pop up they struggle to reassess.
The range of his possible abilities has to be limited by "cannot reliably win against or subvert Gate Keeper or Merlin when acting from ambush with unlimited preparation time". Because if he could, he would have.
On that one... why should it be better than in canon?
We have no indication of that, we have indications that it should be slightly worse recently due to having given a list of compromised assets in fact, allowing for the White council to begin discreetly working on it.
The guy apparently did already have the outsider backing in canon, so that part hasn't changed.
Sarah is a bad comparison as she was moving in a completely different environment with completely different priorities. What with having the head of the local organization in her pocket instead of just part of the bottom.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Outsiders can give knowledge and other forms of buffs or 'investments' as we've been calling them into people they possess or have access to. Unlike in canon an Outsider has direct access to his mind and Peabody maybe bodyjacked depending on what "corpse like" and "dead" eyes means. The vision showed us that an Outsider is looking through those eyes.
We never gave a list of compromised assets to the White Council.
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I am pretty sure Yog has already told that nothing indicated this was different from canon.
Nor is it really indicative that Peabody has a better plan than in canon in and on itself anyway, he is investing in mind control and spy work, his plan for if he get found has no big reason to be different from the *use my compromised assets to create chaos* we know of.
Didn't we tell it to Harry so he could tell it to Mcoy?
I think I remember that happening.
There was a vote on it, I'm sure.
Vote closed.
Arc 14 Interlude 1: Weird Wizarding
Weird Wizarding
17th of February 2007 A.D.
Being a wizard was nothing like she'd been promised, Tina Trailman thought as she pushed aside a sweat-soaked lock of auburn hair out of her eyes. No owls no colored ties, no flying broomsticks and enough running and push-ups to count for boot camp, at least according to Terry who had been considering the army or the Marine Corps, a time honored way for boys from rural Appalachia to see the world. She had thought of going with him, things had changed since their pa's day, but it was not like they'd be put in the same unit. Then had come the old man in the night, 'the cunnin' man', Grandma Hattie had said and their Ma, god-fearing woman that she was hadn't said a word against it. Maybe there's been a reason or three why she hadn't said anything about them Harry Potter even when ol' Preacher Joe had called them 'devil's books' and 'occult'. Turns out there was a lot more 'occult' hidding up the Trailman family tree than any of them new and the fella who was teaching them magic was even named Harry, had messy dark hair and everything. Maybe she shouldn't have asked him if he played Quidditch though, felt like he was particularly hard on her since then.
But how was I suppos'd to know what's real, huh Terry, she argued with her mental ideal of her twin as she often did and he with her. They knew each other well enough that they could mostly guess what the other would say. Pixies and demons and five flavors of vampire. As she slowed down from the run the girl closed her eyes and reached inwards and upwards like she'd been taught to feel the beat of the world. It was one thing to be able to do magic in a quiet room when you'd been working up to it for the last hour and quite another to do magic fast. That's what they were here to be not just wizards, but wizard soldiers, Wardens they called 'em. The twins didn't have to come here, really at fifteen a lot of people starting with their teacher and ending with Grandma Hattie had told them in no uncertain terms that they should wait and learn more of the 'fundamentals'.
"How're you holding up there?" The by now familiar voice of Warden Ramirez still sent a tingle down her spine, the kind she wouldn't be talking about with her brother, on account of not wanting to be teased until she was ninety.
"Keeping grounded," she answered. And not gawking at all the city folks like I just fell from the moon head-first, the girl thought but didn't add. Chicago had been a revelation from just how many people and how different they were from each other. TV had nothing on this: Mexican folks and Chinese folks, Indian folks and folks from places she had to take out the map to figure out and that was before you got into the folks that weren't humans at all like the pixies and such. Who knew they liked Pizza?
Tina had managed to gather, mostly from overhearing talks between Warden Ramirez and Dresden, that it wasn't the usual sort of place to be training young wizards, too many distractions and temptations. Weird how alike wizards and Preacher Joe could be about some things even though he'd probably burn a cross in their yard or worse.
Then again like the pretty lady said there was a hair's difference between a prayer and a spell, magic was all about intent, about putting your true self into the magic instead of the 'you' the world saw about understanding yourself before 'you try to figure out Sir Issac Newton'. That had been a funny lesson with the 'Apple of Expectation'. Tina wondered if there was anyway she could learn how to make apples that floated like balloons. That'd be a really fun party trick to pull out when her cousins were bobbing for apples. Sure it would be showing them magic, but who'd believe a bunch of little kids?
Tomorrow though they'd be learning to...
[] Shoot magic guns, Terry was real' excited about that...
[] Get to meet some more 'interesting folks' Ghouls and Vampires supposedly down in the 'Undercity' Wasn't one city big enough?
[] Learn the basics of brewin' stuff, alchemy's the fancy name for it
[] Write in
OOC: The Trailman twins are the ones who die in the flash back in White Night. This is your choice for what part of their training Molly will involve herself in, though the other stuff may also happen depending on what Ramirez and Harry choose to do. Also 'the pretty lady' is indeed Lash who taught them with what she's best at, mind games. That report for the Senior Council is going to be really fun for Harry to write.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Your fabricating this. We already have information that isn't in canon on Peabody.
The reason why I say that it 'should' be better is because he has access to things that the canon version isn't said to have. That's what the vision indicates.
No. If this had happened why would there have even been an argument about Peabody to begin with???
The way I see those:
Is that the fundamental disagreement between you and Bronzetongue (wasn't Yog, I was wrong on that) is that you think there is a difference between this peabody and the canon one and he doesn't.
As is, the current one is just as sponsored by outsiders as the canon one, so the fact that we saw him maybe being possessed isn't in and on itself an indication of change because he probably also was in canon from Bronze's POV.
Because Uju thinks that even then Mcoy can't take care of peabody.
Will search for the vote, I am sure that at the very least we had a vote to do it or not.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
We've no indication of that. The Peabody from canon shows no signs that other Outsider possessed people from canon do. However the Crown vision gives us that notion for the Quest so I'm not of the same mindset as Bronze.
I'll let Uju speak for himself in any case. We didn't vote to give anyone a list I'm rather sure of that and Bronze has been operating under that belief as well.
The crown cheats, and if the symptoms were visible the guy wouldn't be able to do his job. We being able to see the signs in a vision thanks to it isn't indicative of people being able to do so in canon if that was the case.
So we don't know if the situation really is different from canon on his state from that alone.
When you add the fact that Peabody isn't doing anything different from canon when it comes to infiltrating the council, we have no strong indication of actual deviations.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
When Outsider possessed people in canon get cornered the fact that they do have an Outsider agent in their head reveals itself. As far as we know they don't just get killed without issue. The fact that they're possessed becomes relevant. Peabody just died so we have no indication that he was possessed by anything.
He maybe. We don't know what he's doing to infiltrate them we do not possess such details at present. No-one knows that he's a traitor though unlike in canon when at least Rashid knew so that's different.
Edit: Checked the timeline, so this statement isn't actually true.
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