Not 100 on whether we should take either construction option. Like yeah they'd both be really good for us, but taking either when we've already demonstrated that we have sizable yards could be seen as greedy or suspicious.
Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest
- Thread starter 4WheelSword
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Getting civilian construction is better then tonnage limitations. We don't have to take much to make the difference compound, plus we make sure trade ties them to us.
In fact, I'd pick civilian construction over recruitment. Recruitment is easier for us to find workaround solutions.
In fact, I'd pick civilian construction over recruitment. Recruitment is easier for us to find workaround solutions.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
Our current problems seem to lie in logistics. I'd say fuel and resupply would be handy. Not sure if we can get yard space. Also not sure we can really push recruitment. This is a request; we're not dictating terms to people. So tread lightly is my opinion and ask for fuel and resupply - ask for too much and we are likely to earn resentment that will come back to bite us later.
We're never gonna outclass the Junta in terms of tonnoge, they've got the dreadrocks after all. That said, an 800-900 ish tonnage limit for new construction would make sense and keep our cruisers competitive. Throw in some civilian construction on our end to bottleneck them a bit more and to 'build trust and commerce' and I'd get behind it
We do have the Monitor in production (Yay!), so we do not explicitly need to limit the size of their fleet.
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The dreadrocks are warships that will be hopelessly outdated by the end of the decade and outclassed by our capitals
I think civilian construction could be really good, as well as doing everything we can to tie them to us through trade and cooperation. Nobody in the system seems to hate us, so tying them to us through trade could open up an alliance or even confederation in the future.
For the same reason, I'd prefer not imposing tonnage limitations. Nobody here really seems to have reason to start a fight with us, and once the Monitor is finished we will definitely outclass them militarily anyway.
For the same reason, I'd prefer not imposing tonnage limitations. Nobody here really seems to have reason to start a fight with us, and once the Monitor is finished we will definitely outclass them militarily anyway.
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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the latter please
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
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Not sure if they'll be thinking of it this way but I'd honestly expecting allowing recruitment to be one of the more favorable options for S'taxu. The position we mostly sorely need more bodies for is piloting, and having ships in our fleet helmed by people reluctant to inflict excessive violence on their home system seems like a decent insurance policy to me.
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- Here, there, everywhere.
Yeah until we need to fight a war and they all mutiny in their barracks leaving half our fleet dead in the water.
Notice that building the civilian Interstellar Conveyor requires 1K tonnes, so we might ask for that much, either once, or from both Dynasts and the Junta.
This, plus two other reasons. 1) Is prestige. Like seriously how many others could say they've been off world, let alone to another syatem? 2) Is unity. If we want S'taxu to be a central system eventually, we're gonna have to start building trust/reliance/co-operative projects together.
OK, so something like this:
[X] Plan A, in order of importance:
-[1] Return of all remaining captives and bodies from Heimdall.
-[2] Fuelling and Resupply in S'Taxu for military ships.
-[3] Civilian construction in S'Taxu yards.
--[X] 2K tonnes, but were OK with negotiating down to 1K.
-[4] Access to recruitment pools in S'Taxu's population.
--[X] We're OK with dropping this if required.
-[1] Return of all remaining captives and bodies from Heimdall.
-[2] Fuelling and Resupply in S'Taxu for military ships.
-[3] Civilian construction in S'Taxu yards.
--[X] 2K tonnes, but were OK with negotiating down to 1K.
-[4] Access to recruitment pools in S'Taxu's population.
--[X] We're OK with dropping this if required.
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4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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😅😇I'm a scamp
I thought about making it complex and difficult, but a) you're the only power in the system that has shown that it will bombard the surface of a planet and b) this is a quest about building a navy, fundamentally, and getting hung up on rounds of negotiations isn't interesting.
Though the Daughters are there as well...
Not quite. It starts construction when the FSS finishes, in uhhhhh a few months. But yes, it's planned.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
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That is why it would be favorable for S'taxu, yes.
(though if we're not planning to go to war with them, then it's plausibly also in our interests for them to have that sort of security, so they don't just have to take our word for it)
For point 4, could you change this from dropping to emphasizing that we are only offering it as an option for the population, instead of a demand for the governments to tithe/provide us recruits? That way it is strictly seen as voluntary on S'Taxu's population
Coyote Niff
the most transbian obligate scavenger on the 'net!
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And then...multirole!!! finally!!!!
Some notable points from the negotations:
[X] Plan A, in order of importance:
-[X] 1: Return of all remaining captives and bodies from Heimdall.
-[X] 2: Fuelling and Resupply in S'Taxu for military ships.
-[X] 3: Civilian construction in S'Taxu yards.
--[X] 2K tonnes, but were OK with negotiating down to 1K.
-[X] 4: Access to recruitment pools in S'Taxu's population.
--[X] This point is meant to be as an option for the population, voluntary, such that we're OK with not pushing on that point.
EDIT: Plan formatted to comply with vote tallier.
Yeah, that's the part when the politicians did the work so we could skip it.
Does that include the stationing of our Interstellar Cruisers? Do the Dynasts expect our current commitment of 3 ships on rotation to continue, or are we expected to move them as soon as the platforms are turned over to us?
That is a huge concession, I didn't expect we could get away with something similar to that.
This isn't too bad either, since it means S'taxu factions will squabble a bit among themselves rather than unite against us. We didn't end up with an unified polity on our border.
Thankfully, this didn't happen during the negotiations. As it stands, the Daughters proved themselves to be both disruptive and not needed to achieve results, and it's likely going to be spun as such by the Citizens Council for the purposes of Home proganda.
I could well be that when we finish the Monitors, we would well want to redesign to Multi-Role Vessel into something that can jump without drop tanks and is a bit more manuverable than the current one. Perhaps we'll be experienced enough to turn it into some sort of a flagship capital ship.
Sure:
[X] Plan A, in order of importance:
-[X] 1: Return of all remaining captives and bodies from Heimdall.
-[X] 2: Fuelling and Resupply in S'Taxu for military ships.
-[X] 3: Civilian construction in S'Taxu yards.
--[X] 2K tonnes, but were OK with negotiating down to 1K.
-[X] 4: Access to recruitment pools in S'Taxu's population.
--[X] This point is meant to be as an option for the population, voluntary, such that we're OK with not pushing on that point.
EDIT: Plan formatted to comply with vote tallier.
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Coyote Niff
the most transbian obligate scavenger on the 'net!
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Oh boy, here I go getting aerospace Catholic with it!
[X] OPLAN: Deus Ex Pacem
[X] Access to recruitment pools in S'Taxu's population.
[X] Civilian construction in S'Taxu yards.
[X] Write-in: Home will offer jump technology assistance to all space-capable S'taxu factions for the purposes of peaceful scientific advancement; our scientists will share knowledge and information with any non-military body which requests it, with all requests reviewed by the HSWB to prevent violation of these terms.
[X] The Citizen's Council will provide all necessary funds to support relief efforts in the former Xyphoni territories, coordinated with the PMC and Chambrestrong Dynasts. To avoid further harm, all aid will be transported via civilian ships and distributed on behalf of Home by the Daughters of the People, who are outside the military structures that targeted the Federation and therefore a neutral Home representative.
After war, peace. After peace, rebirth. We at the Multispectrum Warfare Office believe sincerely that just as war is politics by other means, sometimes the motivations for war-defense, liberation, intervention-may be completed by political means as well as by the spearpoint. To this end, we propose a peace program designed to not only rebuild and eventually reunify S'taxu, but to repair the grievous harm of our own intervention in this conflict. Firstly, we will offer trade and commerce to our new neighbors in S'taxu; places for their people in our civil and military fleets and contracts for civilian ships in their work-starved drive yards. Secondly, we will allow the seed of technological advancement that made these peace talks possible to flourish-but not by military means. This office proposes an exchange program of Home's scientists and schematics regarding jump technology to all space-capable factions in the current detente; one will not hold this ability over the other, but instead share equally in the benefits of reaching out into the vastness of space. Furthermore, military officials from all factions, including our own Space Warfare Branch, will regularly inspect jump drive facilities to ensure no military effort is being conducted using this technology, with our representatives drawn from the same Fleet officers overseeing the necessary nuclear detente of the orbital Dynast nuclear platforms still threatening S'taxu 8. This disarmament program, while controversial, is necessary to prevent any escalation of this conflict or disruption of relief efforts in the former Federation.
While the destruction of the Xyphon Federation was believed to be a military necessity, it is clear now that the civilian suffering in its wake must be addressed. But it is also clear that the Fleet cannot undo the work of its own "hands"-the orbit of ships laden with aid over the Xyphon Federation will only remind those living below of what we once did to their shattered cities, breeding anger, resentment, and fear that already threatens to destabilize the peace process. To that end, we propose that while aid will be funded and provided by the Home Citizens' Council, it will be transported only by unarmed civilian jumpships, and distributed on the ground by the only organization on Home who has yet to play a role in the war: the Daughters of the People. In this way, the Xyphoni can begin to recover from this grievous sin against their world, and the people of Home can redress the wounds of the past and join with all of S'taxu in a peaceful and prosperous future of mutual respect and honor.
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always_confused
Perpetually unwanted
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- SEA
We will let our slaves have a semblance of peace for now. But soon we will return in a tide of steel and laser.
I'm pretty sure the Daughters are part of the Navy, as exemplified by your character. If they're not part of the Navy, your character would've been denied advancement or purged. It's a faction, but an internal one, not an independent organization. As such, claiming them as neutral is quite a streach.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, the intent of your point about sharing the J-Drive clashes with the already established limits on building jump-capable ships in S'Taxu. Besides that, additional exploration would be rather redundant, given that our scouts are already combing the space and we can share maps.
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[X] Plan A, in order of importance:
-[1] Return of all remaining captives and bodies from Heimdall.
-[2] Fuelling and Resupply in S'Taxu for military ships.
-[3] Civilian construction in S'Taxu yards.
--[X] 2K tonnes, but were OK with negotiating down to 1K.
-[4] Access to recruitment pools in S'Taxu's population.
--[X] This point is meant to be as an option for the population, voluntary, such that we're OK with not pushing on that point
-[1] Return of all remaining captives and bodies from Heimdall.
-[2] Fuelling and Resupply in S'Taxu for military ships.
-[3] Civilian construction in S'Taxu yards.
--[X] 2K tonnes, but were OK with negotiating down to 1K.
-[4] Access to recruitment pools in S'Taxu's population.
--[X] This point is meant to be as an option for the population, voluntary, such that we're OK with not pushing on that point
Night
Widow Null
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- Hoff
The problem is it risks upsetting the balance of power we've carefully arranged because the most ready sources of personnel are the Junta and the Dynasty, who are at least marginally opposed, and no one from the regions under threat of nuclear annihilation from space, because they don't have the sort of space-skilled personnel we'd want or a pipeline for them. This is something we should come back to in three or four years, once people have had a chance to settle out a bit.
Thus I vote to drop it:
[X] Plan B, in order of importance:
-[1] Return of all remaining captives and bodies from the Heimdall.
-[2] Fueling and Resupply in S'Taxu for military ships.
-[3] Civilian construction in S'Taxu yards.
--[X] 2K tonnes, but were OK with negotiating down to 1K.