I'd rather have full control over the station in charge of refining the asteroid into fuel and being able to dole out fuel as we see fit rather than our strategic resource being mined by a civilian company and sold off for profit instead of being maintained carefully as a fueling point for ships jumping in that direction and back home.
Since we can't yet actually refuel in Deep Hope, the Janus just tried to scan for more systems and didn't find much because her sensors weren't good enough.
To be frank, when I voted North the last time, I assumed the outcome would include building an outpost. Lesson learnt, we can issue orders that don't account for those orders being physically impossible.
Eh, it makes sense so I don't mind switching to it. I don't think having it armoured is needed. It's a nice fallback point, but armouring it makes no practical difference during war.
[X] Plan Quality Expansion
-[X]Write-in; Combine the properties of the Deep Space Surveyor Type-1 and 'Quad Jump' into a larger and more capable ship. If also possible, expand the jump fuel stores to allow five or even six jumps.
-[X] There must be a Navy segment, with docking and service support for the Flotilla Support Ship.
-[X] The Navy will also provide a bonus incentive and the equipment for establishing either somewhat heavier armor or a defensive weapon suite on the Deep Hope station/colony.
It's been stated that Deep Home is a very finite resource given it's an asteroid even if it'll last us decades or more, at the moment we're consuming a miniscule amount of Hydrogen but in the future I can imagine it's going to quadruple every few years due to growth of military and civilian starship travel, I'd rather have full control over the station in charge of refining the asteroid into fuel and being able to dole out fuel as we see fit rather than our strategic resource being mined by a civilian company and sold off for profit instead of being maintained carefully as a fueling point for ships jumping in that direction and back home.
If Deep Hope was so finite that only the Navy should be able to use it, then Energence Heavy would have never brought up creating a fuel station there. It wouldn't be profitable if the only point would be to create a station there to hold fuel and refuel any passing ships, rather than mine & refine it. Handing most of it over to civilian ownership does two things for us. Offloads the cost and workload/time investment, and encourages civilian shipping if we find something beyond the rogue comet.
If Deep Hope was so finite that only the Navy should be able to use it, then Energence Heavy would have never brought up creating a fuel station there. It wouldn't be profitable if the only point would be to create a station there to hold fuel and refuel any passing ships, rather than mine & refine it. Handing most of it over to civilian ownership does two things for us. Offloads the cost and workload/time investment, and encourages civilian shipping if we find something beyond the rogue comet.
It's an exploitative resource, the point is that even if it lasts for multiple decades any extra use the navy could get out of it will be diminished by an accelerated depletion of it's resources for the commercial market of direct access hydrogen through electrolysis. It may seem small now but ships burn 10% of their of their tonnage per parsec, our current Interstellar Conveyor is 1k tons but the whims of the market (and the reality of ship tonnage reaching the millions in the Traveler Universe) means that soon we could be seeing hundreds or over a thousand tons of fuel being demanded by civilian ships using Deep Home to travel towards the Galactic North, not just in total but by each ship.
Even if we use the IC for the next five decades how much fuel would we waste if over the course of a few months over a thousand tons of hydrogen is mined and processed not to facilitate consistent travel for just a dozen trade ships? Not to mention when the navy has to use it as a strategic point for refueling which could drink up an entire year's worth of production in a single afternoon?
Putting such a strategic and finite resource in the primary hands of oligarchs who will sell the fuel like it's going out of style as long as they're not directly threatened while keeping a token eye on them is how we end up holding an empty bag when the time comes that we need Deep Home as a strategic staging point. The Navy can distribute hydrogen to passing trade ships just as well as the corporations can, the difference being we can put a focus into reserving as much as strategically possible for our own use, as well as establishing a defensive cordon towards the Galactic North under our direct command.
What is any benefit we get from letting someone else in the government control Deep Home other than saving us a little bit of money in the short term? Nothing.
The thing is though, that Deep Hope will only be viable for the short term anyway. By the time it will start to run out, as a Nation we will have either shifted over to every ship being capable of at least four jumps, or we're going to have J-2 drives. This isn't me saying I know better than 4WheelSword either, this is an educated guess about the nature of progress. We're going to want to start expanding past Xyri and S'Taxu at some point, and having to make stops at either for fueling is going to put a large slowdown on said expansion.
We're going to want to start expanding past Xyri and S'Taxu at some point, and having to make stops at either for fueling is going to put a large slowdown on said expansion.
How does the navy controlling Deep Home force us to make stops as either of those places. We can still give fuel to merchants we're just not trying to push it out the door in the name of profits.
The thing is though, that Deep Hope will only be viable for the short term anyway. By the time it will start to run out, as a Nation we will have either shifted over to every ship being capable of at least four jumps, or we're going to have J-2 drives.
Yes, but it's a cheap place in the short term to stop off at. If a system is 5 jumps away, stopping at Deep Home to refuel is paramount. Even if it's within range the market means that Deep Home will have use as a top-off station with cheap prices instead of whatever price gouging might be done outside of our controlled space.
How does the navy controlling Deep Home force us to make stops as either of those places. We can still give fuel to merchants we're just not trying to push it out the door in the name of profits.
It doesn't force anything. It's taking into account that a nation does not develop in a vacuum. The needs of 2/3rds of the travel outside of our system are going to affect the last 1/3rd of the travel no matter how we progress.
Yes, but it's a cheap place in the short term to stop off at. If a system is 5 jumps away, stopping at Deep Home to refuel is paramount. Even if it's within range the market means that Deep Home will have use as a top-off station with cheap prices instead of whatever price gouging might be done outside of our controlled space.
A Navy segment, controlled by the Navy, means that government travel will not have to pay. Unless you're saying that all the fuel that is available in the comet should only go to government travel, in which case, why? Using it as a refuel stop is the explicit point, and once it becomes non-profitable for civilian use, then we can just establish a refueling route from Home if it is still seen as still desirable.
(Also, don't know if it's autocorrect, but its Deep Hope, not Deep Home)
A Navy segment, controlled by the Navy, means that government travel will not have to pay. Unless you're saying that all the fuel that is available in the comet should only go to government travel, in which case, why? Using it as a refuel stop is the explicit point, and once it becomes non-profitable for civilian use, then we can just establish a refueling route from Home if it is still seen as still desirable.
(Also, don't know if it's autocorrect, but its Deep Hope, not Deep Home)
I've said consistently that the problem is who controls the fuel output. The navy who thinks in terms of strategic resource, or corporations wanting to make money? The navy under control of Deep Home can still give fuel to merchants to facilitate our economy, the difference is we're not handing it out for profit incentives and are doling it out proportionally while building a strategic reserve for ourselves.
Is there anyone else who can give arguements just why the navy shouldn't have sole control over a strategic resource that so far is an anomaly? What is the exact likelyhood that we're going to run into literal floating balls of fuel in the middle of nowhere space? We're throwing it to the corporations for them to use it for their whiles.
I don't think it's likely that we'll get Jump-2 any time soon, the wiki says that's a TL-11 thing and we're supposed to be at TL-8. Also, while letting Emergence Heavy mine Deep Hope would stimulate civilian interstellar travel, I kinda want our very own Area 51 out in deepest space.
[X] The Deep Space Surveyor type-1, requiring sixty-four weeks to build. With the addition of drop tanks.
[X] This should be a Navy station, operated by our crews.
[X] The Deep Space Surveyor type-1, requiring sixty-four weeks to build. With the addition of drop tanks.
[X] There must be a Navy segment, with docking and service support for the Flotilla Support Ship.
[X] The Deep Space Surveyor type-1, requiring sixty-four weeks to build. With the addition of drop tanks.
[X] There must be a Navy segment, with docking and service support for the Flotilla Support Ship.
[X] The Deep Space Surveyor type-1, requiring sixty-four weeks to build. With the addition of drop tanks.
[X] The Deep Space Surveyor 'Quad Jump', requiring sixty-four weeks to build.
[X] This should be a Navy station, operated by our crews.
[X] Plan Quality Expansion
-[X]Write-in; Combine the properties of the Deep Space Surveyor Type-1 and 'Quad Jump' into a larger and more capable ship. If also possible, expand the jump fuel stores to allow five or even six jumps.
-[X] There must be a Navy segment, with docking and service support for the Flotilla Support Ship.
-[X] The Navy will also provide a bonus incentive and the equipment for establishing either somewhat heavier armor or a defensive weapon suite on the Deep Hope station/colony.
[X]OPLAN: Long Haul Spacin'
-[X] The Deep Space Surveyor 'Quad Jump', requiring sixty-four weeks to build.
-[X] There must be a Navy segment, with docking and service support for the Flotilla Support Ship.
Please select one design to proceed with: The Deep Space Surveyor type-1, requiring sixty-four weeks to build. With the addition of drop tanks. Does the Navy have any requirements to impose on Energence Heavy's work? There must be a Navy segment, with docking and service support for the Flotilla Support Ship.
Loopholes in Construction - (03y08m00w)
The Deep Space Surveyor will, with some modifications, be capable of four jumps while still retaining its armour, fittings and stores. A relatively new concept in Interstellar ship design - as new as it can be give its only three and a half years since the first jump ship - the idea is to strap additional fuel tanks to the outside of the ship and expend those in order to make the initial jumps out into the black. The Deep Space Surveyor will actually mount two - one for its first jump, another for its second, and then switching to internal fuel for jumps three and four. This means that drop tank one will be dumped in Home and may well be recoverable, reducing costs.
The drop tanks themselves are small enough to enter serial production on the surface of Home, to then be shipped up as and when needed by shuttle-craft. The scouts themselves will be built in the shipyards orbiting Home, with the first taking some sixty-four weeks to complete, at a cost to the Navy of two-hundred-million credits. Relatively cheap for such a leap in capabilities.
Meanwhile, work begins in earnest on the station that will orbit Deep Hope several years from now. Five segments will make up the entirety of the structure currently planned, with each having a specific intention in mind. Two will be purely for storing the proceeds of mining out the rogue asteroid, one will be a gigantic fuel tank, one will be the Navy Command segment, and one will be the Energence Heavy manufacturing plant. This latter is to be prioritised, as it will also contain the primary power and orbital engines that will maintain the stations position around the gigantic comet.
How many Deep Space Surveyors does the Navy plan to buiild?
[ ] One
[ ] Two
[ ] Four
[ ] Other How many segments of the station will be constructed simultaneously?
[ ] One - Taking over six years to complete
[ ] Two - Taking over three years to complete
[ ] Five - Taking a little over a year to complete
Explorations
The Janus once again brings home little in the way of new destinations for the fleet, but we can at least update our maps for the modern understanding of the sector.
An 'F' marks available refuelling stations.
A great deal of empty space surrounds our three systems, leading to questions about what the future of the fleet should be. We have some ten pilot allocations that are currently sitting unused and tonnage will be coming available as the Orbital Defence Stations are completed. Our current fleet is heavily prioritising Interstellar warfare, when we had originally planned for a 70/30 split in warship tonnage between extra-solar and intra-solar. How do we see our next steps unfolding?
What is the Navy's construction plan for the coming years? Select as many as you consider viable:
[ ] A new class of Interstellar Warship that masses around [write-in] tons.
[ ] A new class of Intrasolar Warship that masses around [write-in] tons.
[ ] A class of modular defence stations that can also be shipped (in parts) to allied systems.
[ ] Other - Write in.
O, I see the drop tanks were adopted. Nice. As for choices:
[ ] Two
I prefer if we kept the idea of jumping in tandem, but I think we're compact enough that we don't need more than one explorer team.
[ ] Two
Because we don't want to clog the yards with just civilian constructions.
[ ] Write-In: Semi-Mobile Monitor. Around 7500 to 8000 tonnes, capable of jumping one parsec.
Big, almost at the limit of what our yards can produce. With our Flotilla Support Ship it's possible to deploy them further than one jump. It won't be fast, but it would enable strategic redeployment. If we make them 7500 tonnes we could refuel two of them at once. Basically, the idea here is to have something that can take a lot of punishment and anchor our defenses.
Also, is there anything preventing us from exploring from S'taxu? We're supposed to have access to resupply there as part of the war effort, aren't we?
EDIT: @4WheelSword What does -2DM on sensors mean? Is there a particular reason this ship has streamlined hull, or is it that just for looking cool?
Interstellar geography has not favored us, has it? Or perhaps it has... at least we're not surrounded at J-1 distance by aggressive, expansionist peers.
For space surveyors I'm thinking four. The potential hexes to explore are going to dramatically expand now that we're going two out from any refueling station.
[ ] Four
For station... three years to complete? Three years seems fine, right?
[ ] Two - Taking over three years to complete
I'm not too sure about ship construction. Everyone else have some ideas about that?
Oh, TL7 sensors are -4dm, TL9 sensors (of which you have prototypes) are -2DM. The DSS has a massive upgrade over the Janus and her sisters.
Streamlined is bcos the S'Taxu boat had it for surface to orbit flight and I wanted to keep the same hull for when I inevitably draw them both.
[X] Four Surveyors
[X] Two Station Segments
[X] Write-In: Monitor, 6500 tonnes
-[X] Intended as semi-mobile defensive warship, prioritizing in-system operations, with primary armament consisting of particle beams. Additional features might include shockwave missiles, mass drivers.
I like the expeditionary destroyer, and certainly think we need to keep expanding our ability to project force - however we need to implement our 70/30 doctrine, and this monitor should help us accomplish that.
We could temporarily halt construction or focus on infrastructure instead of building new ships. Or we could take the opportunity to flush out our home system defense. What's the thought on building smaller attack craft and a tender to potentially jump them elsewhere?
Smaller craft have the potential to burn through our pilots fast. I'd rather build something bigger. That said, it's not out of the question to build a set of several monitors and tender to deploy them where needed.
@4WheelSword Question: There are countermeasures for missiles in the form of point defenses. But is there anything that specifically counters particle beams? If not, is there are reason not to rely solely on particle beams in all our designs? @4WheelSword Question: Is there anything preventing us from exploring from S'taxu? We're supposed to have access to resupply there as part of the war effort, aren't we?
@4WheelSword Question: There are countermeasures for missiles in the form of point defenses. But is there anything that specifically counters particle beams? If not, is there are reason not to rely solely on particle beams in all our designs? @4WheelSword Question: Is there anything preventing us from exploring from S'taxu? We're supposed to have access to resupply there as part of the war effort, aren't we?
1) Sand. Sand interferes with particle beams. They're basically the barbette/bay version of lasers.
2) Haven't wanted to send a scout through an active warzone while you only have one. I'll let you pick it when you have more resources.
in this MWO memo, our girl sort of has her groove back. Finally!
*knuckle crack*
OPLAN: Peace Is Our Profession.
-[X] Two Surveyors
-[X] Two Station Segments
-[X] Write-In: Lancer-class expeditionary destroyer, 3000 tons. Built for deploying torpedo and particle firepower and FLF troops anywhere in the local volume. With the expansion of our existing interstellar scouting programs into full-fledged deep space exploration, as well as our increasing involvement in the disastrous S'taxu conflict, the Space Warfare Branch must be prepared, as the old saying goes, to "pull our chestnuts from the fire". Drawing from the shelved Quarrel-and-Pavise and Crossbow-class destroyer escort programs, the Multispectrum Warfare Office advocates for the development of a totally new "expeditionary" craft, massing 3000 tons and equipped with the latest in mid-range, fast-firing particle barbettes alongside rotary-launched multi-mission strike munitions. This new Lancer-class vessel, if adopted for Fleet service, will be capable of three functional stellar jumps, only a slightly larger range than our current Insterstellar Cruiser fleet. However, its primary weapons system will be an advanced line of Type 20 multi-mission ordnance, composed from standoff missile hulls adapted from the City Militia's tactical ballistic missile programs (hereafter "torpedoes" to assuage our naval-minded superiors) mounted in rotary housings for both orbit-to-surface bombardment and warfare in the deep black. Most crucially, each Lancer-class will carry a Fleet Combat Team of 200 Fleet Landing Force infantry and their attendant drop infrastructure for ship-to-ship boarding actions, on-board security, and planetary deployment. In the event that our Deep Space Survey missions meet with the type of hostility that led to the loss of the Heimdall and our regrettable ensnarement in the Dynasts' suppression of democratic forces in the S'taxu volume, the Lancer-class will be able to intervene, defending Home's interests across known and unknown space.
It is proposed by this office that, should the type meet with approval, it be tested through an effort to recover any remaining POWs held by forces in the S'taxu volume. We cannot leave our fellow spacers behind.
I like the idea but I think something around 5000 tonnes would be better, if only because I don't want to eat our entire shipbuilding capacity on one boat.
EDIT: We could actually expand the drop tank idea, include the tonnage for one jump aboard but build a slurpable external balloon full of hydrogen that a ship can dock to, burn and discard to leave the immediate vicinity of Home.
