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Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest

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WallFly said:
[ ] Write-in; We will not choose sides in this civil war. This is a matter for the S'Taxu as a people to decide, not outside actors such as ourselves.
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There's one significant problem with this option. S'Taxu has more potential than we do. If we let the situation resolve itself someone will gain dominance and will be able to marshal all the resources of S'Taxu. Even if we remain peaceful, we'll be outcompeted. Because of that, I feel that we should either secure someone's gratitude, get a foothold in their system, or make sure the civil war simmers long enough so that we can get a good headstart.

EDIT: [ ] This civil war is a distraction - we are likely in a position to overwhelm our enemies and win the system for ourselves. - For the record, I don't think this is a good option. We don't have the capabilities to win the system. We could perhaps win some space battles and perhaps we could do some bombardments, but how are we supposed to occupy these planets? We don't have the means to move soldiers between systems and we don't have assault crafts to land them.
 
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[X] The Monarchy should hold sway over their home. Back them.
[X] This civil war is a distraction - we are likely in a position to overwhelm our enemies and win the system for ourselves.
 
@4WheelSword were our ships able to determine, either through dialogue or observation, what approximate forces are available to each side of the civil war? Just in terms of a very rough estimate, since it doesn't seem like we have precise details.
 
Wiadi said:
@4WheelSword were our ships able to determine, either through dialogue or observation, what approximate forces are available to each side of the civil war? Just in terms of a very rough estimate, since it doesn't seem like we have precise details.
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Not really? Certainly not for any of the out-system faction, the Junta.
The in-system factions at least operate several defensive platforms and there are inhabited asteroids in orbit.
 
[x] We cannot trust such ill-offered negotiations. S'Taxu is not for us.
I believe that it is ill-advised to attempt an invasion. An alien invasion is probably the best way for the S'Taxu civil war to end, and not in our favor. Let them fight, while we talk to people who are less horrifically unfriendly.
[x] Write-in: seek to establish an embassy on Xyri, and attempt to ascertain if some sort of entente would be possible in the future.
 
Maybe we could try to learn more before we pick a side? That said, it sounds like no faction has access to jump drives, but the junta is almost certainly trying to reverse engineer one from the wreck of the Heimdall and is trying to extract as much information as possible from any surviving members of the crew.
 
Conquering the system is ill-advised; how do we expect to maintain any sort of military occupation? Further, we have no accurate estimate of enemy strength were we to do so. Third, what is the desired outcome? To simply have the system for the sake of having it? This is a recipe for a bleeding ulcer that will drain budget and strength for no good purpose.

If we are going to back anyone, I'd vote for the junta, but I'd much rather we not stick ourselves into this mess.
 
[X] Plan: Simple Logistics and Democracy
-[X] Flotilla Supply Ship
-[X] The Junta holds the strength on S'Taxu, and the Heimdall's survivors. Back them.
-[X] To make contact. If matters proceed well, send a follow-up diplomatic delegation / first contact team to establish amicable relations and perhaps an embassy.

A straightforward Supply/Tanker ship seems sensible. We don't have enough knowledge of surrounding systems / or know whether we could even exploit their resources if they are already inhabited.

The Junta is stated to support the major democratic faction of the civil war - hence I think we should back them. The Monarchy can't enjoy popular support if the entire system has risen against them. Whilst it's unfortunate that the Junta destroyed our scout and that this resulted in a loss of life, it's understandable that in the midst of a civil war a mistake was made.
 
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Tallhart said:
The Junta is stated to support the major democratic faction of the civil war - hence I think we should back them. The Monarchy can't enjoy popular support if the entire system has risen against them.
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There are three major wrinkles that I see:
1. We, both as the Navy and as Home, don't support democracy. We're oligarchic ourselves and it is not in our interest to support popular uprisings lest our own population gets ideas. That said, the Junta seems to be the one holding the power in their system and we could presumably work with them to first crush the Monarchists and then contain the Democrats. However:
2. There two Democratic factions. We don't know whether their relations to each other and we don't know which one of those is allied with the Junta.
3. If we do support the Junta, our own government could perceive that as a threat against them. We're not exactly the same, but in terms of government structure we seem to be closer to the Monarchists rather than the Junta. @4WheelSword How does our government feel about it?

Overall, I'm more inclined to support the Junta rather than the Monarchists. First, because of our survivors. Second, because the Monarchists seem to be on the defensive, so the fight could be easier.
 
Maxin_inc said:
Okay but... it'd need to be at least twice the size it is to actually act as a mobile repair bay for a spaceship beyond holding spare parts if you're imagining it acting as a floating drydock. The most advanced thing it could do is probably cut out damaged armor plating and weld on new ones, you'd need an entire drydock to actually repair, remove or replace subsystems wholesale.
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It doesn't matter since my proposal lost out, but I was voting for the C&C ship, not the fleet repair vessel, as I agree with your concerns on mass requirements.
 
[X] Plan: What's a Prime Directive?

-[X] Flotilla Supply Ship
-[X] The Monarchy should hold sway over their home. Back them.
-[X] That said, we will trade food and medicine for any side that asks in order to secure safe passage through the system. We will also offer refuge to any that wish to leave the system for our own.
-[X] To make contact and little more.
 
Rat King said:
how do we expect to maintain any sort of military occupation?
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Would like to really emphasize this one. We currently have 6 small jump ships, with no space for an invasion force, and no credible way to build a new one. Our only real invasion option would seem to be "install pliable government" or "dictate terms from orbit with nukes", neither of which is a great long term plan in my opinion.
 
[X] Plan Partnership
-[X] S'Taxu: The Junta holds the strength on S'Taxu, and the Heimdall's survivors. Back them.
--[X] Ensure cooperation during the civil war. Namely, our warships ought to have the right to resupply using their infrastructure.
--[X] Ensure that after the civil war ends our dealings are to be with the Junta. It will be their job to maintain order and contain the democratic factions.
--[X] Have the Junta agree to tonnage limitations. We cannot allow their navy being bigger than our own.
-[X] Xyri: Aim to establish a permanent diplomatic presence on their mainworld.
--[X] Ask for transit rights to other systems. Ask to for the right to leave a sensor buoy in their system. Offer trade, but hold off on trading technologies for the moment.
--[X] Take a look at their military capabilities. If they're significantly weaker than ours, look into making them our protectorate, but not before the situation in S'Taxu is resolved.
-[X] Civilian Construction Yard

I've been convinced that we need to be able to operate in all types of sectors, so I'm OK with it being closer to supply rather than manufactory. Why the civilian outreach? Because it's basically the only type of ship where civilian outreach is feasible and we want to maintain good relations with industrial interests. Plus, I don't think there is a reason to arm the ship itself. Either give it an escort or keep it away from space battles. It'll be more efficient without the extra load.
 
I like the FSS the most out of the ship options. We don't really NEED ultra-long-range support ships right now. That sounds expensive, too.
 
KleverKil'Vanya said:
I'll just say this, if the first response to outside contact is shoot first, we should cripple their ability to shoot at all.
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There are a great many explanations for why that might happen other than simply being xenophobic and malevolent. Keep in mind, we are jumping in blind here, without any sort of real knowledge of the neighborhood around us. We might've jumped into someone else's high intensity war where they aren't exactly checking IDs at the door; it could be an automated defense against an attack that has been made before; it is possible that there are diplomatic protocols we breached or seemed to breach that set off red flags.

We just don't know anything yet and while the easy choice is to pull out the guns and start blasting, it's very likely to be the wrong choice.
 
@4WheelSword Is it beyond our ability to feed our jump drives controlled nuclear pulses in order to cut down on fuel costs to give it the energy required to make jumps?
 
I'm gonna present this idea with the caveat that it is a little ambitious, but I feel like it's got potential.

Rat King and Raw90 are absolutely right, we cannot invade and hold S'taxu. We don't have the civilian logistics for interstellar trade yet, we can't absorb our own population over again in occupied subjects. At the same time, I think the Monarchist faction is too precariously positioned to be a good ally, and the Junta faction shot at us before trying to wheedle us into providing military aid.

Hence, we try to break the system up between both of them. The Junta in the outer system has resources, but lacks the large population needed for a reserve of pilots. The Monarchy is the reverse, lots of people but sparse spaceborne resources. If we introduce ourselves as peacekeepers and try to bring the S'taxu system to a negotiated peace, or even a cold war standoff, we can deal with smaller powers that could be absorbed into our sphere of influence.

[X] Plan Great Game
-[X] Flotilla Supply Ship
-[X] Contact both the Junta and the Monarchy with an offer to mediate negotiations between the parties and try to stem the violence in S'taxu. Our sizeable interstellar fleet will accompany such a diplomatic mission to back our words with an image of power.
-[X] To make contact and little more.
 
Doubloon said:
[X] Plan Great Game
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Hmmm... That is ambitious. The problem with it is that the Junta is unlikely to be able to support itself long-term. It appeals to me, but I'm not a fan that it's not doing anything with Xyri and the choice of design is not my favourite either.
Doubloon said:
We don't have the civilian logistics for interstellar trade yet,
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True. I consider that to be an argument for approaching Civilian Construction Yards.
 
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