- Location
- Germany
Okay.
If we underestimate Old Lu and die, that's an acceptable outcome.
Better to try and go out in glory than never try.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
If we underestimate Old Lu and die, that's an acceptable outcome.
Better to try and go out in glory than never try.
They do not have those instincts apart from themselves, but as with all mortal magic when you use your magic and soul to shape the world, the magic shapes you. All of the alphas are a little bit wolf in spirit, enough to at least start to understand the lessons of shamanic magic. In another life they would have been the shamans.
- Location
- Near Water
[X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Won't let what be? Your going to have to be more specific. Them wanting to bring their King back doesn't automatically mean they also want to conquer Britain.
That is different from everything we've seen about the crown and certain very high end effects. The whole reason Molly's nonsense matter is because she's operating a divine super weapon that can meaningfully compete on the scale of things like the white god in the right context.
I'm jumping to the most obvious conclusion on the planet. Maybe they won't call it Camelot, but they aren't on a quest to revive King Arthur Pendragon to ask him for his secret muffin recipe.
So Uriel explicitly admits he would lose to any primordial all of which could level infinity level of power, and many of which where made up of actual infinity's. A mere galaxy does not matter to the primordial level. Maybe if he could collapse the universe, but a couple million galaxies does not rate.
Ligier's hardly unbeatable, for a solo exalted. A he loses all the time summoning him was a normal thing, and it is quite easy to rig the summoning so he cannot win. And Malfeas explicitly did surrender the moment the exalted started killing primordial's, so yes the moment the chips where down, and it turned into a war with actual stakes the lord king folded instantly.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Obvious? Hardly. Id be willing to buy that back then they wanted him back for that purpose but that was 1500 years ago. Perhaps they're doing it out of loyalty and obligation. I do not see how them wanting to bring back their King whose body was put into stasis automatically means they want to take over modern day Britain.
Their motives in regards to Britain would depend on how they view its current status. Which they're not entirely aware of.
Good night guys.
You dont get to make that determination for other people and other factions.
The US does not get to tell Singapore that public flogging is not allowed, or Saudi Arabia that cutting off the hands of thieves is inhumane and to stop. Especially since we arent the US; more like France or Germany.
Our personal standards do not determine community standards.
We sure as fuck didnt make any stipulations about Ms Sandra Marling when we handed her over to Winter.
They are not being tortured. They are being incarcerated. Significant difference.
It WOULD have been within then-current community standards, both human and supernatural, if Arawn had chosen to torture them; that he didnt speaks well of him, and actively improves my opinion of him.
Being the center of the setting does not mean that nothing else happens there.
The angels and the other agents have jurisdiction and oversight there as well as over here.
Yes. I am. This is not Creation, this is the Dresdenverse modelled as a WoD setting. Exalts are guests here, to quote Holden.
The Dresdenverse setting does not work without a central authority that has the power and authority to pull rank and might on everyone else when major setting changes have to happen.
Angels and archangels themselves have been explicitly characterized by Butcher to be sufficiently powerful that they work in breaths and whispers because they could break the setting just by acting.
By contrast?
Creation saw at least two Primordial-involved wars, and summoning 2CDs and 3CDs post-Primordial War was not unknown for everything for settling everything from major construction projects to battles.
Short of explicit Word of QM significantly retooling the entire cosmology of this AU, that remains my working model.
White God > Angels and archangels > Primordials.
You are being wilfully blind.
Arawn's wife had the gift of foresight/prophecy, but she made no claim to being infallible.
Indeed, her very prophetic gift straight up demonstrates its lack of infallibility with regards to Arthur Pendragon.
And if the Cauldron couldnt bring Arawn's wife back, in the heart of Arawn's power, when she was freshly dead?
I put it to you that you are definitely missing important data.
Arawn walked away to serve Winter for a millenium and the only guard force here since has been the understaffed remnants of Arawn's hounds, absent those that went to the Wild Hunt, and those that followed Arawn into Winter.
And yet noone has come for the Cauldron of Rebirth. No Denarians. No necromancers. No Outsider pawns or agents of the Yama Kings. Not even desperate wizards. This is a setting where we see Cowl arrange a break-in to Hades to free the Nemean Lion, and where someone unknown staged a major assault on Arctis Tor less than a year ago IC while wielding Hellfire.
Either they are all incredibly stupid, or they know something we dont.
No, you have your heart so set on this that you are unwilling to consider that things will not work out.
We have seen Corpsetaker steal bodies onscreen.
We have seen Outsiders steal control of bodies. We have a Word of Butcher that the Dresdenverse Vlad Drakul isnt human, but is something else embodied in a human body.
The idea that a magical ritual for summoning someone into a body might get you someone else is not
This is, IMO, schmuck bait.
Summer is preserving his body; it isnt stopping time for his soul OR his body.
Time carries on regardless.
Lore of Awakening 5 animates a body.
It neither creates nor summons a soul, nor is it capable of implanting an available soul into the body.
That requires Lore of Spirit 5, and even Spirit 5 only works with bodies which have been dead for <48 hours.
His soul has moved on to their destination, like the vast majority of souls of the dead after they die. That destination is not accessible to outsiders. We know that it happens, because we see it offered to Dresden at the end of Ghost Story.
You dont get to stick your hand into the White God's rucksack to root around at your leisure.
Even the Solar resurrection charm wouldnt work if the person had been dead for more than 5 days.
And its a 5-dot Solar charm.
- Location
- Right Where I Am
Just because it's natural doesn't mean that it's right. Shiro, Malcolm, Aurora, and thousands who died in Central Africa should all get to keep going until they're done too. That is baked into our world. Death is not an end until you are well and properly done.
Arthur is just one with a not yet done quest to bring him back that we've stumbled upon.
We have perfect infinite resurrection so long as we can get the soul into Sanctuary deal with it @uju32. Does not matter how long ago they died, or how, or why.
For that matter we could potentially leave Authur's body where it is, take his soul to sanctuary get him a new body for a couple hundred years, and he would still have his old body for the end of days fight.
For that matter we could potentially leave Authur's body where it is, take his soul to sanctuary get him a new body for a couple hundred years, and he would still have his old body for the end of days fight.
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The guy's title is the once and future king. They kicked off the fight on the premise he'd lead them to a new age reforming a better Roman Empire:
Their oath is to preserve his legacy in a kingdom fair to the high and low as the world allows in their own words. Which is to say, a nation that operates under their idea of what's fair and right:
Maybe they change their minds, maybe they just change their means, but that's where they are right now.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Yes? Like I said that was 1500 years ago. Their motive in regards to Britain is unconfirmed until they see and understand it's current state and form opinions of there own.
Your repeating what I said in my post your replying to, not providing new information. You even used the same quote I did.
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- Location
- Canada
Only because we need Winter intact for the moment, 'cause regardless of their incompetence at protecting reality from Outsiders, we can't yet replace them at the Outer Gates.
Molly absolutely intends to determine community standards the moment she can get away with it. By which I mean, once she can slaughter all the monsters who see humanity as prey/like to torture people for eternity/kidnap and raise human children as cannon fodder (*cough* Mab *cough*), she will. She's gonna make it very clear that the old rules are no longer relevant; she certainly doesn't lack for ambition, even if she's being quite careful right now.
Just because everybody else sucks and we don't doesn't mean we should be okay with letting everybody else wallow in atrocities. We can swallow it for now since there's worse enemies to fight, but once Nemesis has been deep-cleaned it's time to clean house.
Their king's goal was not just to conquer Britain, it was to conquer the Roman Empire.
They have been fixated on trying to bring him back to continue where he left off.
To the point where they drew weapons in the halls of a friendly Power who was more powerful than they were.
I dont think we can exaggerate just how much of an egregious breach what they did in Arawn's halls was.
Or just how incredibly irrational it was, both given that Arawn and his forces was more powerful than they were, and was in the heart of his power to boot.
Or that doing this would make it exponentially harder to get help anywhere, because they had befouled their reputation as people. Their drawing weapons in his halls upon their request being declined would have closed doors to them all across the supernatural community even before they murdered his wife.
And the latest plan being to attempt to rob one of the few institutions they havent alienated yet: the Catholic Church.
I am not generally in the school of people who believe that Exalted effects uber alles, especially in another setting where there are explicit mechanics to allow some of the denizens contest them.
There are straight up mechanics for opposing perfect effects in ExWoD, IIRC.
Even in Creation, high-Rank Gods had Excellencies and perfect effects to oppose Exalted effects.
Now you're just making things up.
Summoning a demon is not the same as fighting them.
You're wrangling a legal contract, you arent contesting their strength.
As for fighting them? Ligier stat block: Sword of the Yozis
Thats literally just his sword.
Thats the nature of the Age.
Even at the very height of their power in the High First Age, the Exalted did not get to determine how Reality worked.
Even they died.
Can't get more done than "Your Fate is through." Nothing suggests that we can bring him back for good even if we wanted to. Especially since for Exalts, dead is dead was a core pillar of vanilla Exalted, and even getting the potential for resurrection is a feature of this ExWoD, not of Exalted nature.
Its especially instructive that the Fae didnt point at some other resource on Earth at the time,
1) Winter isnt incompetent.
Winter is playing against a relentless, casualty-insensitive opponent with seemingly limitless resources thats capable of longterm planning and appalling levels of infiltration.
2) No she doesnt.
Stopping/deterring entities from predating on humans? Is very much NOT the same thing as setting standards of justice for other people's legal systems and how they treat people who have lawfully trespassed against them.
As of 2018, US federal law literally has the death penalty on the books for large-scale drug trafficking, violence or not.
Marijuana included.
The EU does not tell the US to change federal law.
Just like the US doesnt tell Singapore to stop flogging people, or Saudi Arabia to stop chopping off hands.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
I'm aware. 1500 years ago that was their goal as shown in text yes. Still not seeing why BronzeTongue is presenting his opinion on their current ambitions outside of the resurrection of Arthur as fact.
Because as far as we can tell, they havent changed.
They're still the same people pursuing the same goals.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Correlation is not causation. Considering their relationship with him and the significant amount of time that has passed, the fact that they want to bring Arthur back does not unquestionably mean that they retain all of their previous ambitions. They believed that Rome was in a sorry state before so they wanted to conquer it. Whether or not they want to now may depend their opinion of its current state, of which they are ignorant beyond an infodump Lydia gave.
You can certainly infer that they want to conquer it as they did before, I wouldn't even say the conclusion is inaccurate considering what little we have to go off of but to present it as fact requires more than we currently have.
My conclusion here is that there is no credible option here where they do anything but attempt to form their own power base. I think there are good odds that this takes the familiar form of a 6th century state, but could potentially move towards a more subtle supernatural style of nation.
These aren't just random people and all outcomes aren't equally likely. The imperialist guys aren't going to be shy about trying to conquer themselves a place in the world to impose their ideology on now than they were a millennia and a half ago.
1) Yes, we do get to make determinations for other people and other factions, all the time.
2) In this specific situation, we don't need to make determinations for other people or other factions. You are trying to persuade us to accept that their punishment is normal, and acceptable, and we don't need to feel bad or horrified by it. Screw that. We don't. It's horrific, it's torture, and we can do something about it.
3) Eternal incarceration in the conditions they are in is torture. Even their jailers agree that it is torture, as evidenced by sneaking in entertainment in the form of board games to them.
No. The setting of the quest is the future of Creation, which turned out to be DF setting. And your notion of archangels being more that primordials is frankly ridiculous enough, and has been disproven enough times that I will choose to just ignore it from now on.
You are asserting that with no evidence.
No, you are assuming that with no evidence.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
@DragonParadox Tiffany's plan does involve stealing from the Catholic church though right?
What if Molly asked what Gods plans are.
The recent talks about white god supremacy made me think of our promise about not using the crown to see his mind and inspired me:
Version two: *Panic*
Version three: "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh" *takes a breath* "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh"
Version four: "Please work, please work, please work"
Version five: *sound of rolling dices*
What if Molly asked what Gods plans are.
Version one:"Oh me, oh me, what do I do, how do I stop that!"
Version two: *Panic*
Version three: "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh" *takes a breath* "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh"
Version four: "Please work, please work, please work"
Version five: *sound of rolling dices*
Not specifically, if they are fine handing it over that is good too... but she would not mind stealing it. The way she sees if the Church should be glad someone is fighting their enemies.