- Location
- washington
One note about him his hoard is also completely untouched but best to leave it untouched because its super fucking cursed. No one has touched it because it has a dragons curse maybe death curse can't remember on it.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That… is actually kind of a brilliant idea? And if it comes down to it I'm sure that they would be willing to help their mother if we needed all hands on deck vs a major outsider incursion.
… plus, can you imagine the look on charity's face if Molly came back from college over a break to introduce her to her new child and they're literally a baby dragon? XD
Yeah, pretty much exactly. Dresden Files has Dragons and dragons.
There were five Dragons who were each responsible for an element, each solidly in the Celestine category because the most immediate blocker to one of them trying to collapse this dimension (other than interference from their peers) was that they'd be destroying the thing they're bracing themselves against to exercise that power. Like Hercules trying to smash the frozen surface of a lake while he's standing at the center of it.
Garden variety dragons are their children/servants. Powerful, but dramatically less so.
Sithorax was wind. Pretty sure earth and fire are the only two still alive these days.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
There being only two left might be even more reason to go with Yog's plan of making a new one, though we'll need to gather resources and max crafting skills and probably yet more circle members to do it well
No a duck is a duck and a goose is a goose and BSS is a odd Goose indeed. It literally fails to qualify as a perfect attack I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't matter that any attack can fail to do damage that's not what makes a perfect attack perfect. The chance of failure literally defines it as a not perfect attack. It doesn't matter that it unlikely to not do damage the fact it's likely to do anything other than hit makes it not perfect. Perfect defenses are supposed to be the only way to avoid perfect attacks.
The fact that someone can do literally nothing and not get hit by it makes it not a perfect attack. You can say that that's luck or chance or what have you but that doesn't change the that it can fail. If we're taking things in vacuum like we have been so far then having a stamina of eight means it's literally impossible to affect the person with that we can effectively do that, Mages, Vampires, shape changers and more can do that. Literal Sorcerers are capable of doing that you know how making a single potion it is a high level potion for sure but to say that it's a perfect attack when it can be obsoleted by a stamina potion is nonsense.
Before you say that's bullshit it's very much not any
Edit: crossed is outright incorrect I was misunderstanding the 13 - generation point of attributes for vampires that is in total not in addition to the base five you get as a mortal which means 10th Generation vampires cannot raise their stats above 5.
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Are you reading my posts?
1) It is a fact that all perfect attacks have a baseline failure chance in the form of failing your damage roll. In this regard SBS and all other perfect attacks are the same.
2) Difficulty caps at 9, you can't be immune if you have 20 stamina. It just stops us from decreasing the difficulty lower than the cap.
3) No amount of charm synergy is ever relevant to the definition of what a particular one is or does. If the potential to botch an attack when used alone means something is not a perfect attack then no perfect attacks have ever existed.
Perfect attacks do not ensure damage. They have never ensured damage. You can perfect attack someone with a pistol, roll no successes, and they will take no damage.
What they do is make it more likely by denying the target active defenses short of perfects. If you fuck up on the follow through that's your problem.
Edit:
More succinctly, perfect attacks subject a target to a damaging effect which deny any active defense unless it is itself perfect. Anything that does this is a perfect attack.
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Okay I feel like it's getting lost in the shuffle perfect attacks have nothing to do with damage. Did the attack hit yes or no. If the answer can ever possibly be no outside of a perfect defense then it's not a perfect attack. End of story. As every other actual perfect attack in the game will say if you do not have the successes to successfully hit, hit anyway. It was never about the damage you're the one who says it's about damage it's very much not that.
… SBS does not allow an active defense step. It cannot miss if we fire it by definition. Sometimes we might not fire it correctly. This is directly analogous to failing a shot so bad it does nothing.
So the idea that we can just spend the essence and the willpower and completely Miss and somehow that's a perfect attack is crazy to me that's not how any perfect attack that I can find works. Literally guided by inevitability it can't miss solars literally Guided by their heart can't miss the starboys they can have someone else shoot it and can't miss BSS is meant to take the same niche as a perfect attack I will not deny that but it is not by any reasonable stretch a perfect attack.
To not call that missing feels like I'm losing my fucking mind that's like so much cope that it's hard to understand. That's like me pointing a gun at a Target and then firing the gun and then saying I didn't even mean to hit the target. My brother in Christ you spent the essence and the willpower obviously you meant to kill the mother fucker.
Though Sandstrike has both single and multi target modes, so useful in different situations.
Plus can be used with GSNF
- Location
- Right Where I Am
If we just have it sitting around, then is it just going to be releasing its pollen like any other flower might? Is allergy season potentially going to get a lot more hopefully rebellious in Chicago?
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- Location
- Brazil
@Yog, I really liked this build and I'm looking forward to doing it (even if I think that the preparations you mentioned before doing it were already overkill and that if we follow this we'll never do it within the scope of the quest), but I just have one small fear. In the fluff it says that he will give his blood to whoever gets his approval, can you add something that will allow him to take away his blessings if one of the chosen ones goes off the deep end?
I can only imagine a book plot about how one of them goes crazy and uses their friendship to lower our little dragon's defenses, traps him and then uses him, whether to create other dragonbloods by force or sacrifice in a ritual.
I really hope he thinks of Molly as his mother, Charity's face will be priceless. And could you add a description of what he would look like in both forms?
Edit:
I actually have some photos that I think would look great, coming from honkai star rail. A fully human form and a form for when he starts to use his elemental powers seriously without wanting to change completely (even if mechanically it's just two, I think fluff would be more enriched with an intermediate form and would be great for creating stunts). He even has that pseudo Chinese style that appears in Exalted, the only problem is that in the game this character is a water dragon and our future dragon son would be of the air element.
All that's missing is the completely bestial form.
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[X] Plan Last Check Before the Road
That is because it cannot miss, and one of the reasons that distinction matters is because of the bad assumption you're baking into the description here.
Baseline an attack can
1) miss (fail to generate any successes)
2) be blocked/parried
3) fail to generate any damage
4) fail to generate enough damage to beat soak
All attacks are subject to point 3. The only difference between SBS and any other perfect is the size of the pool/difficulty of the roll. That is significant but not foundational. You could fire off GDG and roll poorly, resulting in nothing happening.
1 and 2 do not apply to perfect attacks, they are bypassed. If you just hit without making a roll baring a perfect defense you by definition cannot miss.
SBS trades the opportunity for bonus successes from an attack roll to additionally bypass 4.
SBS is in danger of missing the same way an airliner is in danger from landmines.
It is not succeeding, but the mode of failure is different. From a mechanical perspective there is no difference between rolling no successes on a 10 dice GDG damage roll and no successes on a SBS beam. Both occur after the attack stage where missing the target is a consideration. The fist is on the face and they're resolving how badly it hurt.
Edit:
To got to the gun example again. Suppose an Abyssal fires a pistol at a baseline mortal, and because they're pissy about something use GDG and willpower on the damage roll. They roll zero on attack, but the bullet still hits because perfect. The mortal has no body armor, leaving them incapable of even rolling partial soak, but it's not a problem because the Abyssal rolls -2 damage successes and doesn't hurt them.
Without bringing in other charms how is this different from SBS generating 0 successes?
Edit:
Also, what's this with the willpower stuff you keep bringing up? The chant costs 1 mote. We could spend a willpower for a success as normal, but it's not Something we have to do.
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3) fail to generate any damageThat is because it cannot miss, and one of the reasons that distinction matters is because of the bad assumption you're baking into the description here.
Baseline an attack can
1) miss (fail to generate any successes)
2) be blocked/parried
3) fail to generate any damage
4) fail to generate enough damage to beat soak
All attacks are subject to point 3. The only difference between SBS and any other perfect is the size of the pool/difficulty of the roll. That is significant but not foundational. You could fire off GDG and roll poorly, resulting in nothing happening.
1 and 2 do not apply to perfect attacks, they are bypassed. If you just hit without making a roll baring a perfect defense you by definition cannot miss.
SBS trades the opportunity for bonus successes from an attack roll to additionally bypass 4.
SBS is in danger of missing the same way an airliner is in danger from landmines.
It is not succeeding, but the mode of failure is different. From a mechanical perspective there is no difference between rolling no successes on a 10 dice GDG damage roll and no successes on a SBS beam. Both occur after the attack stage where missing the target is a consideration. The fist is on the face and they're resolving how badly it hurt.
Edit:
To got to the gun example again. Suppose an Abyssal fires a pistol at a baseline mortal, and because they're pissy about something use GDG and willpower on the damage roll. They roll zero on attack, but the bullet still hits because perfect. The mortal has no body armor, leaving them incapable of even rolling partial soak, but it's not a problem because the Abyssal rolls -2 damage successes and doesn't hurt them.
Without bringing in other charms how is this different from SBS generating 0 successes?
4) fail to generate enough damage to beat soak
These are not a factor of an attack. An attack that fails to beat soak and or doesn't deal damage still hit. We could trigger GSNF off an attack that deals no damage but still hit a solar could still activate both HTT and FSS an abyssal SCS and SGT. As all of those activate after a successful attack roll or a successful hit. All of which can make three and four not true but they still need to hit first. There is nothing that can make SBS like that.
Really without bringing other charms. For one you spent an extra willpower. Outside of being more expensive it is the same if you use your false criteria of what a perfect attack does.
Are you honestly going to state that is no difference between SBS and GDG when there are things that abyssals can do to just generate damage using essence and willpower. If one ignores the whole idea that Charms have meaning and the system specifically addresses what you can do on successful hits then yeah they're the same thing. Except that's not true is it. Because the Abyssal in that situation would use Soul Cleaving Strike if they're willing to spend the essence. To make some of those 4 possible dice that they have into successes considering they're already using their fucking willpower to Grant them a success on damage.
Mechanically speaking they're not the same thing just because neither of them generate damage in specific scenarios makes them the same thing. Situationally they are the same except one is more expensive but they are not the same thing mechanically at all. SBS is the closest an infernal has to a perfect attack but I just can't really call it that because it fails at that there's nothing perfect about it there is a high statistical probability every time you use BSS that you will deal damage but that's just a thing it's only a statistical probability not a you hit no matter what effect. It's circumvention of soak and general attack and damage systems make it really powerful but it's not a perfect attack simply because it can fail to hit.
For example if I poisoned a weapon the poison only gets into the enemy system on a successful hit. The amount of damage generated doesn't matter the hit needs to be successful I need to have hit them at that point I use a perfect attack. It doesn't matter that they're not injured by the attack it doesn't matter that it wasn't capable of breaking their armor did they come in contact with my sword yes or no with a perfect attack the answer is always yes barring A Perfect Defense. In this case Hungry Tiger, Fire and Stone Strike, Green Sun Nimbus, Soul Cleaving Strike, Slashing Ghost Talon are all the poison. They don't care whether or not the initial hit was enough to deal damage they care that you actually hit them.
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There are actually several problems with the blessing being retractable:@Yog, I really liked this build and I'm looking forward to doing it (even if I think that the preparations you mentioned before doing it were already overkill and that if we follow this we'll never do it within the scope of the quest), but I just have one small fear. In the fluff it says that he will give his blood to whoever gets his approval, can you add something that will allow him to take away his blessings if one of the chosen ones goes off the deep end?
I can only imagine a book plot about how one of them goes crazy and uses their friendship to lower our little dragon's defenses, traps him and then uses him, whether to create other dragonbloods by force or sacrifice in a ritual.
I really hope he thinks of Molly as his mother, Charity's face will be priceless. And could you add a description of what he would look like in both forms?
Edit:
I actually have some photos that I think would look great, coming from honkai star rail. A fully human form and a form for when he starts to use his elemental powers seriously without wanting to change completely (even if mechanically it's just two, I think fluff would be more enriched with an intermediate form and would be great for creating stunts). He even has that pseudo Chinese style that appears in Exalted, the only problem is that in the game this character is a water dragon and our future dragon son would be of the air element.
All that's missing is the completely bestial form.
1) It goes very against the concept of either an exaltation or a mantle or most other supernatural investments. Once you are bestowed power, in most cases (fae knights, rhampire half-bloods, exalted of all kinds) the only way to remove it is by killing you. In the case of my design, this is due to how it's a transformation. Your new state is your natural one
2) The only mechanical way I can see to easily do this is by making the transformation temporary. And I don't really like that - the initial idea was to have this as an option to empower guardians of the young dragon (mostly shi monks, making them much more powerful as a faction long term, and giving them access to their arts in a way that they don't have as mortals).
There are always risks, of course, but hopefully this one can be offset by having a good selection of trusted guardians, and a circle of friends / family.
So, a small change to the vote:
[X] Plan Last Check Before the Road
-[X] A bit of Sanctuary Tech would not hurt
--[X] Wearable short range secure communicators for every member of the raid
--[X] A couple of EMP grenades
-[X] Crown Questions
--[X] Where is Nora's ancestor being kept?
--[X] What are the security measures in regards to Nora's ancestor?
--[X] What are the identities (for the purposes of BMI) of akuma or demons that are allowed within the vicinity of the facility Nora's ancestor is being kept at, who are not present at Wicked City right now?
--[X] What are the locations the release of the hope plague in which will have the largest impact on Wicked City?
I switched out the embarrassing secret because it's way too close to revealing the Crown. And that's a big no-no. Instead I put in the question about the locations to best release hope plague in. Hopefully it's not too value judgement of a question.
- Location
- Canada
[X] Yog
Looks good to me. With every update, it feels like we've been exaggerating the response to 'just' rescuing a soul from a Hell, as we quickly went from stealth mission via stealth to stealth mission via keeping everyone busy with our superweapon WMD. What I'm saying is Molly's reputation is about to go from just a godslayer and world-savior (Las Vegas could've ended in it being nuked, but it also could've ended in WWIII + Outsider Incursion = End of the World) to the kind of threat that Ethniu posed, where she could make literally everybody combined still regret messing with her.
Looks good to me. With every update, it feels like we've been exaggerating the response to 'just' rescuing a soul from a Hell, as we quickly went from stealth mission via stealth to stealth mission via keeping everyone busy with our superweapon WMD. What I'm saying is Molly's reputation is about to go from just a godslayer and world-savior (Las Vegas could've ended in it being nuked, but it also could've ended in WWIII + Outsider Incursion = End of the World) to the kind of threat that Ethniu posed, where she could make literally everybody combined still regret messing with her.
As mentioned previously, this is actually a politically proportionate response. MIkaboshi's agents tried to nuke world economy. We are nuking his in response.
- Location
- Brazil
I understand your arguments and I think if his guardians made magical promises to us to take care of him, I would accept it. What did you think of my photos of his appearance?
Well Yog, that may be what you're saying to us but to everyone else, be it her own allies or others like Titania, Molly only talked about rescuing a fairy, nothing about punishing the attempt to crash the economy. You can see why your justifications for us are kind of funny, right?
On this subject, I agree that the rescue situation has become so bloated that it's not even funny anymore. But just like Vegas or delivering the pendant to Lily, which also exploded out all of proportion due to the desire of most of us to do all the sidequests, it's either laugh or cry, then...
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I like the images a lot, yes.
True, and I think we'll need to make some sort of political statement about our reasons for our actions. Or, rather, we'll need to publicize (without details) what Mikaboshi tried to do, so everyone can draw connection to what happened to him.
The last couple of events did escalate a lot, didn't they? This one probably the most. We should do somewhat more co tajned stuff next month. I mean, I already know that getting Lydia a dog for her Companions of the Hunter charm is going to end with us in deep NeverNever fighting to reclaim (parts of) her ancestral realm, but hopefully we will be able to at least find Rosie an apartment without having to dismantle illuminati or something.
Other charm effects do not matter to the definition of this one or the category in general. The ability to synergize is not in the definition of perfect attack, there's also nothing in particular suggesting those charms should be the basis for such a test even if it did. Dreams of Disease for example only keys on damage, since it's possible to fail to generate damage does that perfect attack not count anymore?
This also seems like you've changed your tune here since you were making strong statements about it being impossible to avoid damage and that being the litmus test.
GSNF doesn't apply because it's melee only, we couldn't use it with a gun either. If we could I'd argue it should apply to SBS because it boosts damage rolls and SBS is a damage roll.
You successfully strike the target without doing anything for it, it's implicit in making the roll in the first place.
One that would work is Soul Rendering Practice, but this is all irrelevant to the charm in question anyway. Ability for other things to key off it isn't part of the equation.