Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

I'm not really a fan of trying to give Daniel any of this right away without discussion. BUT if he asks... Let him see everything for himself with an example and we will honestly describe all the good and bad effects and alternatives. And then Molly can decide whether it's worth it in the game.
 
Difference completely without meaning. The DC shifts are the same and plenty of people thought Kings were supernatural.

What were Molly's school friends names again? I feel like we should offer to them as well.
1)Most people did not.
The people who lived in close proximity with them, saw them eat and shit and fornicate did not.
Awe only lasts so long for mundane people. Not so when you're a CoD in the AoE of an Infernal.

2) No, we shouldnt.
Like I said previously, surrounding Molly with CoDs that cant meaningfully argue with her does her no good.

Well Inner Darkness Unchained is explicitly a very painful process so we likely aren't doing many rerolls unless someone is very determined (high willpower).
Thats what painkillers are for.
Assuming its a physical pain and not a spiritual pain.
The actual drawback is that the process costs significant Essence to do and undo.
 
Let him see everything for himself with an example and we will honestly describe all the good and bad effects and alternatives.
Daniel's judgement has been shown to be rather poor wanting to go on a suicide mission in the NeverNever just for the sake of power, I wouldn't leave it up to him. It should be discussed with his parents as well this does effect them and the household if one of their kids gets their humanity revoked without warning.
 
The Flavor Text for Inner Darkness Unchained says we have to get within kissing distance, but I say that Molly should do it by Knighting someone using her sword. The symbolism seems adapt. After all Knights let their King put his sword right next to their throat.
 
Daniel's judgement has been shown to be rather poor wanting to go on a suicide mission in the NeverNever just for the sake of power, I wouldn't leave it up to him. It should be discussed with his parents as well this does effect them and the household if one of their kids gets their humanity revoked without warning.
Well, I have a feeling that this will simply come down to no, because if Charity has a choice, she will block any participation of Daniel in any actions. Which could cause his not-so-reasonable judgment to flare up and he would go on a quest to find a power that doesn't depend on changes in the type of existence or MOlly's help.

That is, in fact, this means making a system without a veto. Otherwise, we will get nowhere in these negotiations.
 
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Well, I have a feeling that this will simply come down to no, because if Charity has a choice, she will block any participation of Daniel in any actions.
We'd seriously alienate her at least by doing so without talking about it beforehand though. I don't think we can afford to if we care about Molly's relationship with Charity. Daniel is already getting training too so it probably isn't worth going behind her back just to give him an upgrade when he's already getting stronger.

Maybe this isn't such a good idea...I'm not sure how to sell it to her.
 
Well, I have a feeling that this will simply come down to no, because if Charity has a choice, she will block any participation of Daniel in any actions. Which could cause his not-so-reasonable judgment to flare up and he would go on a quest to find a power that doesn't depend on changes in the type of existence or MOlly's help.

That is, in fact, this means making a system without a veto. Otherwise, we will get nowhere in these negotiations.
Daniel is canonically an Afghanistan veteran as of the events of Ghost Story, and was actively involved in the Chicago Alliance until Dresden returned from the dead.
Charity is not unreasonable, she is just protective of her children while they are children.

And Daniel is still a child.
 
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I'm just saying it will be a tough balancing act. Especially with anything supernatural. And unfortunately training is not enough. And artifacts can be too expensive.
 
Which could cause his not-so-reasonable judgment to flare up and he would go on a quest to find a power that doesn't depend on changes in the type of existence or MOlly's help.
Again we are already working on that as it was addressed. He's training in the Five Courts to build character, skill and gain power. He didn't have any avenues for power before which is a good reason why he planned to fuck off into parts unknown.
 
I'm not really a fan of trying to give Daniel any of this right away without discussion. BUT if he asks... Let him see everything for himself with an example and we will honestly describe all the good and bad effects and alternatives. And then Molly can decide whether it's worth it in the game.

This type of argument (letting him see the effects on Olivia and then deciding whether or not he wants to ask Molly for the same) is much better at convincing me than @uju32 spreading fear that if we do this our family relationship will end, etc. I'm kind of getting tired of this type of argument coming from him not for the first or fifth time throughout the quest.

[X] Sure, you did promise Olivia five months ago
 
Neither are any of the Amethyst order. The benchmark is more useful enough.
Hmm, I agree. But then it must be integrated into the plan. However, I won't talk about Daniel anymore. I would prefer to discuss this in more detail when it is specifically about him, and not about Olivia.
 
This type of argument (letting him see the effects on Olivia and then deciding whether or not he wants to ask Molly for the same) is much better at convincing me than @uju32 spreading fear that if we do this our family relationship will end, etc. I'm kind of getting tired of this type of argument coming from him not for the first or fifth time throughout the quest.

[X] Sure, you did promise Olivia five months ago
Please dont describe my raising IC concerns as fearmongering.
Its not conducive to good faith debating.
 
This was my original template for Olivia as a fomarch:

This was the basic build I did back in October when I was still learning the system, using Sorcerer rules.
I havent updated it since (there's at least two mental defence Gifts that should be there), but it gives some idea what I was benchmarking her for there.

Note that this isnt a Molly Fomarch.
Given as she has especial compatibility with the energies involved? Those are going to get a bit special.
Formarchs are unique supermonsters, meant to be trouble for a full pack of Werewolves.

Our power just makes Formor, or grants Demon Arts and Chi in this case.

Not that absurdity.
 
Thinking on it Daniel will never actually be more useful in a fight than an Amethyst agent with the same upgrades and more experience. Why even put him at risk? We gave him the training so he wouldn't run away not so we could take him on quest.
 
Thinking on it Daniel will never actually be more useful in a fight than an Amethyst agent with the same upgrades and more experience. Why even put him at risk? We gave him the training so he wouldn't run away not so we could take him on quest.
Mostly we want him strong enough that if he sees evil happening in front of him*. He isn't helpless to act. We don't even need to talk about bringing him on missions for a long time or maybe ever. Molly scale threats are a whole other level.

*Say a vampire jumping someone.
 
Thinking on it Daniel will never actually be more useful in a fight than an Amethyst agent with the same upgrades and more experience. Why even put him at risk? We gave him the training so he wouldn't run away not so we could take him on quest.

Unless he qualifies for celestial exaltation, this is basically true. However, if he's trained well enough to become enough of a badass, it would be much easier (if still likely incredibly hard), for him to qualify.
 
Formarchs are unique supermonsters, meant to be trouble for a full pack of Werewolves.
Our power just makes Formor, or grants Demon Arts and Chi in this case.
Not that absurdity.
Thats a misinterpretation of how they are described.
W20 Book of the Wyrm p140 said:
Fomarchs are a next-generation experiment in "elite" fomori. Pentex designed fomarchs to have fully concealable powers. Each fomarch has, at minimum, the Bestial Mutation power. They should work as solo operatives, or with backup from "normal" fomori. To be considered a success, a fomarch must be free of any drawbacks that severely curtail its life-expectancy, must have powers at least on par with a Ferectoi, must be able to completely conceal its powers by adopting an outwardly-human guise, and must be at least functionally sane. Pentex has attempted a number of methods to create fomarchs, experimenting with multi-Bane possession, binding of exceedingly mighty Banes into hosts, and even with mystic and genetic augmentation of standard fomori. The majority of these experiments have created deformed, hulking failures, which become as fodder for the front lines or the vivisection tables, but each success helps the company zero in on a reliable method to augment its forces with elite special operatives and mighty leaders, at least, so Pentex hopes.

A handful of fomarchs is detailed below; each considered a success by Pentex. All fomarchs are, to date, unique. Pentex has yet to devise a method of reliably creating fomarch "breeds."
Its explicitly a new process thats (trying to) advance towards making fomarch breeds.
There are as many, or as few, as is suitable for the QM's story.


And I fail to see how you think a *rechecks* fomarch with a base physical dice pool of 11 is an absurdity?
But you are actively advocating giving minions access to Demon Arts like notCelerity Black Wind, notFortitude Iron Mountain and Demon Shintai.
 
Thinking on it Daniel will never actually be more useful in a fight than an Amethyst agent with the same upgrades and more experience. Why even put him at risk? We gave him the training so he wouldn't run away not so we could take him on quest.
He is there because he threw a teenage fit of inadequacy, his girlfriend chose to indulge him and the voterbase voted to give him training over risking him doing dumb teenager shit and creating problems for us.
Not because he provides any particular utility.

I dont think anyone is planning to take him on quest. At least, I dont recall anyone saying anything of the sort thus far.
Unless he qualifies for celestial exaltation, this is basically true. However, if he's trained well enough to become enough of a badass, it would be much easier (if still likely incredibly hard), for him to qualify.
No, actually.
Training has nothing to do with qualifying for an Exaltation in ExWoD or Ex2.
 
[X] Sure, you did promise Olivia five months ago
-[X] Do not present it as the only path to power. Other options exist, or will exist, like calling her divine ancestor for a talk, or some of the splendor designs you have in your mind for the future


IDU is a valid option, but I don't want to push Olivia into it.
 
Terrible idea.

Turning your younger brother into someone that suffers a +2DC to social with you is very contraindicated to social amity.
Great way to blow up a family dynamic we have spent significant effort reestablishing. And it looks terrible to outside observers to boot; looks like you are minionizing your family members, which is the sort of thing warlocks are known for.

He has alternative options that arent available to others, just by being Molly's brother.
Let him use those; he's already using some of them.
Fully agreed, especially because there is a solar exaltation available, and it is possible to game the system, and yes, I am willing to invest AP into it. We should at least try to get him that power up, he's one of the few people we can be certain or near certain would be able to handle it.

I dont think anyone is planning to take him on quest. At least, I dont recall anyone saying anything of the sort thus far.
I am planning to see how we can maximize the chances of him receiving Dawn caste exaltation. He is a good enough fit that expending effort on that is a good idea.

EDIT: Also, am I the only one thinking that isabela would be a great candidate for an Abyssal? If she risks dying that is.
 
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And I fail to see how you think a *rechecks* fomarch with a base physical dice pool of 11 is an absurdity?
But you are actively advocating giving minions access to Demon Arts like notCelerity Black Wind, notFortitude Iron Mountain and Demon Shintai.
Getting the ability to use Demon Chi and the potential for absurd powers via Disciplines you have to spend XP on is reasonable to me.

Getting 10+ Powers, including Gifts right of the bat, qualifies as absurd to me.
 
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